Rutgers Tunnel Shutdown

[Union Tpke]

I just noticed that the webpage is now up: https://new.mta.info/projects/rutgers

 

The project will begin with three weeks of work in September. There will be service changes on theandlines every night and all weekend during those three weeks, with additional weeks planned in October and November. Beginning in early 2021, there will be four months of continuous work that will require similar service changes.

Benefits for you

Our work to fix the Rutgers tunnel and its infrastructure will help make transit more reliable, resilient and accessible, for years to come. The improvements we're making range from protections against future extreme weather events to ADA and circulation enhancements to the East Broadway station. 
Better service reliability 

• New tracks, ties and third rail
• New fiber optic cable and signaling equipment

Long-term resiliency 

• Rehabilitated pump room to increase pumping capacity
• New cable racking system to relocate cables above flood levels
• Rehabilitated fan plant to improve ventilation

Better accessibility

• New accessibility features at East Broadway station include:
• Raised platform boarding areas 
• Tactile platform edge warning strips
• Widened staircase from mezzanine to platform for improved circulation 

 

Project Schedule and Impacts to E and F Service
While we’re doing this work, we’ll need access to the tunnel and its track. That means we can't run train service through the tunnel while we're working. On nights and weekends for three weeks beginning September 14 and one week each in October and November, and on nights and weekends for four months in early 2021, there will be no train service At the East Broadway or York St stations. To provide as much subway service as possible, we’ll reroute E and F trains in Queens, Manhattan, and Brooklyn,
We'll reroute E and F trains nights and weekends during:

• Weeks of September 14, 21, and 28
• One week in mid October
• One week in mid-to-late November

Then, in early 2021 service changes will be in effect for four months. 
How E and F service will operate while we work

• E trains will be rerouted on the A/C line between Jay St-MetroTech in Brooklyn and W 4 Street in Manhattan
• F trains will be rerouted on the E line between W 4 Street and 36 Street in Queens
• E trains will be rerouted on the F line between 36 Street in Queens and Delancey St-Essex St in Manhattan, the first/last stop for all E trains in Manhattan. This change allows us to maintain subway service at 2 Av and Delancey St-Essex St.

While we work, the East Broadway and York St stations will be closed to customers. The World Trade Center E station will also be closed during work hours. We'll provide free shuttle bus service at East Broadway and York St so that you can get to a nearby subway station. The Chambers St A/C station and Cortlandt St N/R station will also serve as alternative points of entry into the system.

[Deucey]

Seems overly complicated vs running  on 6th Av to 2nd Av, and  on 8th Av to Jay St.

[NBTA]

1 hour ago, Union Tpke said:

Then, in early 2021 service changes will be in effect for four months. 
How E and F service will operate while we work

• E trains will be rerouted on the A/C line between Jay St-MetroTech in Brooklyn and W 4 Street in Manhattan

Heh...interesting.

So the  essentially turns into a short-turn  (Its running between 179 and Essex)...seems a little extra.

Edited September 7, 2020 by NBTA

[R10 2952]

Yeah I don' t understand what NYCT is aiming at here; you would think they could just leave the as-is, beef up / service, split the  into two sections and simply call it a day.

[LGA Link N Train]

2 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

E trains will be rerouted on the A/C line between Jay St-MetroTech in Brooklyn and W 4 Street in Manhattan

I think this might've been a typo on 's part because it sounds like they were referring to the . 

 

48 minutes ago, R10 2952 said:

Yeah I don' t understand what NYCT is aiming at here; you would think they could just leave the as-is, beef up / service, split the  into two sections and simply call it a day.

I thought the same thing, but then stopped to think about whether or not they'd have work trains laid up at York Street throughout the duriation of the Project. 

[Vulturious]

57 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

I think this might've been a typo on 's part because it sounds like they were referring to the .

Okay, this would make much more sense because it wouldn't make sense to just send the  towards Brooklyn because it never does or very, very rarely ever does. It's basically just an 8th Av  train, depending on where they actually want to send the if this wasn't a typo.

[Kamen Rider]

It was a typo.

[RTOMan]

What they arent saying is the Fox will be express on 8th ave during this Work..

Hence making it easier for the Echo to go along sixth ave ,no need to use that switch so much at West Fourth...

Less switching tracks less chance of it locking up less delays..

[RTOMan]

Correction the first couple of weeks of this GO Fox trains will go express..

[paulrivera]

18 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Yeah I don' t understand what NYCT is aiming at here; you would think they could just leave the as-is, beef up / service, split the  into two sections and simply call it a day.

turning the at Delancey lower and keeping the as a continuous service incurs no additional costs because run times are mostly the same, give or take 5 minutes.

If the  ends earlier (wouldn't shock me) to make room for those evening trains, it might end up being a cost savings operationally.

16 hours ago, Vulturious said:

It's basically just an 8th Av  train

Between this and the Archer Av project, the  will basically be an variant for the next 6 months.

[R10 2952]

1 hour ago, paulrivera said:

turning the at Delancey lower and keeping the as a continuous service incurs no additional costs because run times are mostly the same, give or take 5 minutes.

If the  ends earlier (wouldn't shock me) to make room for those evening trains, it might end up being a cost savings operationally.

I still don't see the point of them sending the  down Sixth Avenue, whether it's at 53rd or West 4th.  If the only point on the  being shut down is the Rutgers Tube, they can have F trains from Queens terminate at Second Ave station, use Delancey to East Broadway as a work train staging area, and have another service (I'm guessing ?) run from York to Stillwell.  If need be, they can beef up the / across Manhattan Bridge and the / through Cranberry Tubes.  Maybe also the  for people coming in from Delancey. 

Why the E would be involved in any of this is beyond me.

Edited September 7, 2020 by R10 2952

[Vulturious]

1 hour ago, R10 2952 said:

I still don't see the point of them sending the  down Sixth Avenue, whether it's at 53rd or West 4th.  If the only point on the  being shut down is the Rutgers Tube, they can have F trains from Queens terminate at Second Ave station, use Delancey to East Broadway as a work train staging area, and have another service (I'm guessing ?) run from York to Stillwell.  If need be, they can beef up the / across Manhattan Bridge and the / through Cranberry Tubes.  Maybe also the  for people coming in from Delancey. 

Why the E would be involved in any of this is beyond me.

Well, this is the  we are talking about as they make moves that just doesn't seem to be necessary or shouldn't happen period. It's not the  without them making some questionable or straight up dumb move.

[Deucey]

2 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

I still don't see the point of them sending the  down Sixth Avenue, whether it's at 53rd or West 4th.  If the only point on the  being shut down is the Rutgers Tube, they can have F trains from Queens terminate at Second Ave station, use Delancey to East Broadway as a work train staging area, and have another service (I'm guessing ?) run from York to Stillwell.  If need be, they can beef up the / across Manhattan Bridge and the / through Cranberry Tubes.  Maybe also the  for people coming in from Delancey. 

Why the E would be involved in any of this is beyond me.

Thinking on it a day later, probably to avoid both doing another pick and causing delays in Cranberry Tubes.

 to Delancey St is roughly the same runtime as  from Jamaica to WTC.  via 8th Av doesn’t add much time to running via 6th Av.

It’s the sending  down Culver that sends me. Doesn’t seem necessary - given that it and  switching at West 4th or Jay St will overload the Tubes. And then dealing with  - that’s a whole mess.

Only thing I can think of is if they’re testing to see if there’s a market for direct Queens-8th Av-Culver service in the event COVID cuts may include eliminating  and bringing  back or running more .

[Vulturious]

17 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Thinking on it a day later, probably to avoid both doing another pick and causing delays in Cranberry Tubes.

 to Delancey St is roughly the same runtime as  from Jamaica to WTC.  via 8th Av doesn’t add much time to running via 6th Av.

It’s the sending  down Culver that sends me. Doesn’t seem necessary - given that it and  switching at West 4th or Jay St will overload the Tubes. And then dealing with  - that’s a whole mess.

Only thing I can think of is if they’re testing to see if there’s a market for direct Queens-8th Av-Culver service in the event COVID cuts may include eliminating  and bringing  back or running more .

So when you say bringing back the , how would you have it run exactly, basically what the other guy said when having  in Brooklyn signed up as a  or having it run somewhere else?

[Caelestor]

This post was really confusing without a diagram, plus the typos. Unfortunately I can't draw one myself right now, but this is my understanding:

•  179 St - Coney Island via QBL, 53 St, 8 Ave / Cranberry, and Culver
•  Jamaica Center - Delancey/Essex via QBL, 63 St / 6 Ave. WTC terminal closed with no service

This service pattern is similar to the  when the Clark Street Tunnel was being rehabilitated. Essentially the  trains ran from Dyre Ave to South Ferry via 7 Ave, and the  trains ran via Lex Ave. In that case though, the  trains were signed as  and vice versa to prevent Manhattan customers from being confused. Here, the changes are being made to not confuse Culver Line riders.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Caelestor

[Deucey]

1 hour ago, Vulturious said:

So when you say bringing back the , how would you have it run exactly, basically what the other guy said when having  in Brooklyn signed up as a  or having it run somewhere else?

That would be  as it was in the ‘00s but running to 71st or 179th;  switching at West 4th and thru Rutgers to CI.

Interesting thing would be what to do with  - is it QBL express with  or still local.

If I can Wallyhorse it:

 from Jamaica to CI via West 4th and Rutgers Tube

 from Middle Village Or Bway Junction to 71st; QBL Local

 from 2 Av to 179th; QBL Exp

And if  starts at Bway Junction:

 Shuttle from Middle Village to Myrtle Av

[Around the Horn]

I'm thinking the switcharoo must have to do with some other G.O. taking place on those weekends

[Wallyhorse]

26 minutes ago, Deucey said:

That would be  as it was in the ‘00s but running to 71st or 179th;  switching at West 4th and thru Rutgers to CI.

Interesting thing would be what to do with  - is it QBL express with  or still local.

If I can Wallyhorse it:

 from Jamaica to CI via West 4th and Rutgers Tube

 from Middle Village Or Bway Junction to 71st; QBL Local

 from 2 Av to 179th; QBL Exp

And if  starts at Bway Junction:

 Shuttle from Middle Village to Myrtle Av

could be done that way in a service cut for sure.

 runs as I would do it in this kind of a service cut Metropolitan Avenue-179 at ALL TIMES (no shuttle and no revival), serving 63rd Street, Roosevelt Island and 21st-Queensbridge before joining the at 36th with both running local all the way. 

Simple enough. 

[checkmatechamp13]

2 hours ago, Caelestor said:

This post was really confusing without a diagram, plus the typos. Unfortunately I can't draw one myself right now, but this is my understanding:

•  179 St - Coney Island via QBL, 53 St, 8 Ave / Cranberry, and Culver
•  Jamaica Center - Delancey/Essex via QBL, 63 St / 6 Ave. WTC terminal closed with no service

This service pattern is similar to the  when the Clark Street Tunnel was being rehabilitated. Essentially the  trains ran from Dyre Ave to South Ferry via 7 Ave, and the  trains ran via Lex Ave. In that case though, the  trains were signed as  and vice versa to prevent Manhattan customers from being confused. Here, the changes are being made to not confuse Culver Line riders.

 

10 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

I'm thinking the switcharoo must have to do with some other G.O. taking place on those weekends

Also remember there is construction at Jamaica Center as well (but on weekends, all trains will be cut back to Jamaica Van Wyck). Weekends, all trains will run to Jamaica Van Wyck (while weekdays during the day, roughly half of all the trains will run to 179th Street)

[Vulturious]

39 minutes ago, Deucey said:

That would be  as it was in the ‘00s but running to 71st or 179th;  switching at West 4th and thru Rutgers to CI.

Interesting thing would be what to do with  - is it QBL express with  or still local.

If I can Wallyhorse it:

 from Jamaica to CI via West 4th and Rutgers Tube

 from Middle Village Or Bway Junction to 71st; QBL Local

 from 2 Av to 179th; QBL Exp

And if  starts at Bway Junction:

 Shuttle from Middle Village to Myrtle Av

That could work, but should there be at least an extra express service on 6th Av? The way I see it, having the  switch at West 4th to run express that way it's a full on express service train in both Manhattan and Queens. I do this because there are switches at 47-50th St-Rockefeller Center that continues via 63rd St. I don't know how well the idea of this is, either that or have the  run express on 6th Av continuing via 63rd, but run local with both the  and  express, depending if the  hasn't been cut yet.

8 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

could be done that way in a service cut for sure.

 runs as I would do it in this kind of a service cut Metropolitan Avenue-179 at ALL TIMES (no shuttle and no revival), serving 63rd Street, Roosevelt Island and 21st-Queensbridge before joining the at 36th with both running local all the way. 

Simple enough. 

I don't think having both service running local is a good idea unless the  is running as well and hasn't been cut like I said earlier, it's better to keep  running express on QBL and then running local late nights or staying express. 

[Wallyhorse]

29 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

That could work, but should there be at least an extra express service on 6th Av? The way I see it, having the  switch at West 4th to run express that way it's a full on express service train in both Manhattan and Queens. I do this because there are switches at 47-50th St-Rockefeller Center that continues via 63rd St. I don't know how well the idea of this is, either that or have the  run express on 6th Av continuing via 63rd, but run local with both the  and  express, depending if the  hasn't been cut yet.

I don't think having both service running local is a good idea unless the  is running as well and hasn't been cut like I said earlier, it's better to keep  running express on QBL and then running local late nights or staying express. 

That would part of a bigger thing where the  would also be cut, possibly where the  becomes brown and runs the old  "bankers special" between Essex and 95th Street (with a handful of trains ending and beginning at Chambers) while the save for a handful of rush-hour trains to and from Broad is cut full-time to Chambers (this could be done where for  trains terminating at Chambers, there is a train waiting across the platform to transfer to).  This "brown "  would also have scheduled yard runs from and to Broadway Junction that would at certain times supplement service in that area. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Wallyhorse

[Deucey]

52 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

 runs as I would do it in this kind of a service cut Metropolitan Avenue-179 at ALL TIMES (no shuttle and no revival), serving 63rd Street, Roosevelt Island and 21st-Queensbridge before joining the at 36th with both running local all the way

Thing is that if  were to be eliminated,  at 8 cars wouldn’t be enough on QBL or 6 Av, so  would be needed - whether 8 car NTTs or 10 car R32s.

[Deucey]

35 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

That could work, but should there be at least an extra express service on 6th Av? The way I see it, having the  switch at West 4th to run express that way it's a full on express service train in both Manhattan and Queens. I do this because there are switches at 47-50th St-Rockefeller Center that continues via 63rd St. I don't know how well the idea of this is, either that or have the  run express on 6th Av continuing via 63rd, but run local with both the  and  express, depending if the  hasn't been cut yet.

I’m speculating under the assumption  still exists whether M-F business hours or rush hour only. Midtown 6th Av switching would delay  and exacerbate overcrowding at current service levels since it wouldn’t run more service because it’s doubtful  would end up being a CPW local, and even  local would still merge with it at DeKalb.

[Wallyhorse]

Just now, Deucey said:

Thing is that if  were to be eliminated,  at 8 cars wouldn’t be enough on QBL or 6 Av, so  would be needed - whether 8 car NTTs or 10 car R32s.

I think you meant 10-car NTTs or 8-car R-46s/R-68s.  

Point taken regardless.  With that in mind, then I would look at this:

runs Coney Island to Jamaica via Culver, Rutgers, 8th Avenue, 53rd and QB as of now, all local.

 is truncated to 2nd Avenue-179th Street weekdays 5:00 AM-Midnight.  Local in Manhattan, express on Queens Boulevard.

is truncated to Chambers Street save for a limited number of rush hour runs to and from Broad Street.

runs at all times between Metropolitan Avenue and 71st-Continental via 6th Avenue and 63rd Street, joining the as a local at 36th Street.  Late nights and weekends extended to 179th Street.

becomes a full-time local between Coney Island and Astoria via the tunnel. 

becomes brown and runs the old  "bankers special" route between 95th Street and Essex with some rush hour trains ending and beginning at Chambers.  Some "brown " trains are extended as yard runs to Broadway Junction that are scheduled as such at all times to supplement the at certain times.  

[T to Dyre Avenue]

6 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

I still don't see the point of them sending the  down Sixth Avenue, whether it's at 53rd or West 4th.  If the only point on the  being shut down is the Rutgers Tube, they can have F trains from Queens terminate at Second Ave station, use Delancey to East Broadway as a work train staging area, and have another service (I'm guessing ?) run from York to Stillwell.  If need be, they can beef up the / across Manhattan Bridge and the / through Cranberry Tubes.  Maybe also the  for people coming in from Delancey. 

Why the E would be involved in any of this is beyond me.

Maybe they need York as a staging area too. And I wonder if they want to avoid forcing  Brooklyn  riders to transfer to the  at Jay by having the  run through and diverting via the Cranberry Tubes. Beefing up the  doesn’t really help because they don’t connect with the  in Brooklyn, except for the  way down at Stillwell. 

3 hours ago, Deucey said:

Thinking on it a day later, probably to avoid both doing another pick and causing delays in Cranberry Tubes.

 to Delancey St is roughly the same runtime as  from Jamaica to WTC.  via 8th Av doesn’t add much time to running via 6th Av.

It’s the sending  down Culver that sends me. Doesn’t seem necessary - given that it and  switching at West 4th or Jay St will overload the Tubes. And then dealing with  - that’s a whole mess.

Only thing I can think of is if they’re testing to see if there’s a market for direct Queens-8th Av-Culver service in the event COVID cuts may include eliminating  and bringing  back or running more .

I doubt it, but in these crazy times, you never know. Though it’s hard to see them doing away with a busy service like the .

Edited September 8, 2020 by T to Dyre Avenue