MTA's Presentation Calls for Massive Cuts to Bus Service

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Full presentation below: https://new.mta.info/document/24121?fbclid=IwAR2AdzLLmvpBKlJbEfEwQ4cPYyf9sB3QoptV9hwP_1A5fzcpI6jWrPyyWVY

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[NBTA]

4 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Full presentation below: https://new.mta.info/document/24121?fbclid=IwAR2AdzLLmvpBKlJbEfEwQ4cPYyf9sB3QoptV9hwP_1A5fzcpI6jWrPyyWVY

 

 

 

Good bye to many services...I see lines like the Bx2, B2, Q11 or 21, S42, anything like that, getting canned.

[Future ENY OP]

7 minutes ago, NBTA said:

Good bye to many services...I see lines like the Bx2, B2, Q11 or 21, S42, anything like that, getting canned.

Marine Park will put up a good fight. B2 won’t get canned. Reduced. I suppose. 

[MHV9218]

Well, the good news is that Biden is our president and we have a chance some Republicans will grow a spine and make the moral and sensible economic choice to pass a stimulus bill and save our country from complete economic collapse. They haven't been interested in passing anything so far, because they couldn't care less about the well-being of Americans, but hopefully now that the pressure is on and Trump is out of office.

Cause otherwise... bye bye MTA, bye bye economy, bye bye most state budgets around the country.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

10 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

Well, the good news is that Biden is our president and we have a chance some Republicans will grow a spine and make the moral and sensible economic choice to pass a stimulus bill and save our country from complete economic collapse. They haven't been interested in passing anything so far, because they couldn't care less about the well-being of Americans, but hopefully now that the pressure is on and Trump is out of office.

Cause otherwise... bye bye MTA, bye bye economy, bye bye most state budgets around the country.

lol @ blaming it on Trump. Any stimulus has to be approved by Congress, and even with Biden in office, there's no guarantee that much gets done.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[NBTA]

12 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Marine Park will put up a good fight. B2 won’t get canned. Reduced. I suppose. 

I'd personally fight for something like the Bx2 (I live around the line), but so many transit deserts will get hit with it. (From a fanner perspective) I would like to see a heap of artics potentially ordered in order to replace that messed up service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, NBTA said:

I'd personally fight for something like the Bx2 (I live around the line), but so many transit deserts will get hit with it. (From a fanner perspective) I would like to see a heap of artics potentially ordered in order to replace that messed up service.

Order artics... lol There's no money for that. Capital budget is already accounted for.

[Future ENY OP]

10 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Order artics... lol There's no money for that. Capital budget is already accounted for.

Haven’t heard anything regarding a new artic order just yet. Hopefully one is coming down the pike soon. (Unless they get more money)

[Future ENY OP]

17 minutes ago, NBTA said:

I'd personally fight for something like the Bx2 (I live around the line), but so many transit deserts will get hit with it. (From a fanner perspective) I would like to see a heap of artics potentially ordered in order to replace that messed up service.

I’ll say this. Hopefully soon we get a new artic order. If not it spells bad news for The Bronx since they have a heap of artic lines that could go bye-bye. 

[Cait Sith]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

lol @ blaming it on Trump. Any stimulus has to be approved by Congress, and even with Biden in office, there's no guarantee that much gets done.

Considering that he basically ended all Stimulus talks for a period of time when many transit agencies are suffering pretty hard right now....and then Mitch McConnell shutting down parts of the Stimulus that actually benefits us transit riders in favor of the airline industry....yeah, they get the blame.

If they actually cared about the economy, the MTA would've gotten their extra boost in funding without all of this extra bickering and pettiness, seeing as the MTA is one giant economic generator in its own right.

We know you're on team trump, but lets be realistic here....they've screwed it up for us and the millions of people who rely on transit nationwide.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Cait Sith

[paulrivera]

I hope they don't go 40% blanket across the board (they probably will) and look at individual routes. Some bus routes in the outer boroughs are actually performing well after the pandemic.

The midtown routes can probably absorb a 40% cut but I don't think Bronx, Brooklyn, and Queens routes will be able to. I also hope that express bus routes don't get eliminated (hourly service across the board wouldn't be horrible, but people still need the expresses) as those routes have been viable alternatives for me to get to the city.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

45 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Considering that he basically ended all Stimulus talks for a period of time when many transit agencies are suffering pretty hard right now....and then Mitch McConnell shutting down parts of the Stimulus that actually benefits us transit riders....yeah, they get the blame.

If they actually cared about the economy, the MTA would've gotten their extra boost in funding without all of this extra bickering and pettiness, seeing as the MTA is one giant economic generator in its own right.

Yeah because money doesn't grow on trees. We're running up massive amounts of debt to provide "stimulus". The  got $4 billion in early Spring, every dollar they asked for and fairly quickly too. Now they're asking for $12 billion, and that only covers them for 2021. What happens after that? Do they get MORE money? That's $16 billion in less than two years. Let's not pretend that their financial situation was so great pre-COVID, because prior to the pandemic, NYC was seeing record amounts of money coming in, and they were still struggling to manage their fiscal situation.

So yes, we should be mindful about how we are spending when record deficits are being run up. 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Deucey]

10 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah because money doesn't grow on trees.

But it's fiat money - so it actually appears out of thin air. It's only fears of inflation of it that prevent it from being created willy nilly via unbalanced budgets and runaway debt and deficits.

However these last four years defied inflation as the US had non-stop unbalanced budgets and runaway debt and deficits. Since the barn door is already open and the horses got out, and a virus and the subsequent incompetent response to it created an unprecedented situation, may as well go all in and sort everything out after economic recovery - as has been happening since 9/11.

[MHV9218]

32 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah because money doesn't grow on trees. We're running up massive amounts of debt to provide "stimulus". The  got $4 billion in early Spring, every dollar they asked for and fairly quickly too. Now they're asking for $12 billion, and that only covers them for 2021. What happens after that? Do they get MORE money? That's $16 billion in less than two years. Let's not pretend that their financial situation was so great pre-COVID, because prior to the pandemic, NYC was seeing record amounts of money coming in, and they were still struggling to manage their fiscal situation.

So yes, we should be mindful about how we are spending when record deficits are being run up. 

Don't even come here with that unbelievable bullshit about debt and the deficit after Trump's $5.5 trillion, 'T', with a 'T,' TRILLION tax cut corporate giveaway. Then don't even try it with his record levels of giveaways to farmers in red states (about $50 billion this election year), his colossally stupid tariff plan, or the billion-plus he's funneled to his idiotic wall.

Your guy sat in office for four years running up the debt to unheard-of levels while cutting taxes on the rich and corporations, and the minute he's out of office everybody's a budget hawk and you want to preach about the MTA's finances, as if you have any idea what on earth you're talking about. 

It's pretty simple: if they don't get bailed out, the New York City economy as we know it (only the major economic engine of the entire Eastern seaboard) is permanently crippled. You have no idea what you're talking about and you're trotting out a completely hypocritical argument about deficits after looking the other way for four years.

Miss me with this. 

[67thAve]

This is unsurprising and expected. It's been obvious for years that bus operations are the black sheep of the MTA and are treated as somewhat disposable.

But I also don't feel sorry for the MTA. They've been fiscally irresponsible for years on end, and have proved that they cannot competently manage the operation of routes, especially those which really should be successful (such as the B41).

I think the path forward for MTA bus operations should be either TfL-style tendering of bus depots to private operators (albeit with integrated fares), or complete privatization, Buenos Aires-style.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

39 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

Don't even come here with that unbelievable bullshit about debt and the deficit after Trump's $5.5 trillion, 'T', with a 'T,' TRILLION tax cut corporate giveaway. Then don't even try it with his record levels of giveaways to farmers in red states (about $50 billion this election year), his colossally stupid tariff plan, or the billion-plus he's funneled to his idiotic wall.

Your guy sat in office for four years running up the debt to unheard-of levels while cutting taxes on the rich and corporations, and the minute he's out of office everybody's a budget hawk and you want to preach about the MTA's finances, as if you have any idea what on earth you're talking about. 

It's pretty simple: if they don't get bailed out, the New York City economy as we know it (only the major economic engine of the entire Eastern seaboard) is permanently crippled. You have no idea what you're talking about and you're trotting out a completely hypocritical argument about deficits after looking the other way for four years.

Miss me with this. 

That's right because before Trump, "someone else" was in office and their fiscal situation was oh so good. Please. They've been a train wreck for years.

You're trying to act like when Trump came in, that's when ALL of their problems started. What a joke. Full of it. LOL

Again, it doesn't matter who is office. It's up to Congress to agree on a package, so even with Biden in office, if Congress can't get a deal, they'll be in deep ****.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

16 minutes ago, 67thAve said:

This is unsurprising and expected. It's been obvious for years that bus operations are the black sheep of the MTA and are treated as somewhat disposable.

But I also don't feel sorry for the MTA. They've been fiscally irresponsible for years on end, and have proved that they cannot competently manage the operation of routes, especially those which really should be successful (such as the B41).

I think the path forward for MTA bus operations should be either TfL-style tendering of bus depots to private operators (albeit with integrated fares), or complete privatization, Buenos Aires-style.

You should mention this to @MHV9218, who thinks that the  's fiscal woes only started when Trump came into office. LOL 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Deucey said:

But it's fiat money - so it actually appears out of thin air. It's only fears of inflation of it that prevent it from being created willy nilly via unbalanced budgets and runaway debt and deficits.

However these last four years defied inflation as the US had non-stop unbalanced budgets and runaway debt and deficits. Since the barn door is already open and the horses got out, and a virus and the subsequent incompetent response to it created an unprecedented situation, may as well go all in and sort everything out after economic recovery - as has been happening since 9/11.

I disagree. I think $4 billion is a lot of money and they ran through that in less than a year, now they want $12 billion just for 2021. What happens after that? I have no problem giving them more money. What I take issue with is the amount. 

[lornaevo]

They need to enforce the fares and stop people from riding the bus for free  

[Via Garibaldi 8]

25 minutes ago, lornaevo said:

They need to enforce the fares and stop people from riding the bus for free  

This!!

1 hour ago, Deucey said:

But it's fiat money - so it actually appears out of thin air. It's only fears of inflation of it that prevent it from being created willy nilly via unbalanced budgets and runaway debt and deficits.

However these last four years defied inflation as the US had non-stop unbalanced budgets and runaway debt and deficits. Since the barn door is already open and the horses got out, and a virus and the subsequent incompetent response to it created an unprecedented situation, may as well go all in and sort everything out after economic recovery - as has been happening since 9/11.

The  still has not addressed their fare evasion problem, which continues to grow every year, and they want to come to the government with their hand out each year. It's nuts. They don't even have accurate estimates, so they're asking taxpayers for money and can't get their own house in order. Sorry, not sorry. We want to give $12 billion dollars to an agency that does not have an organizational chart. That's a problem... A big one... https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-mta-cuts-nyc-transit-feinberg-20200713-xxvzjppk7bb4vg2fhprt6j6aym-story.html

Edited November 18, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Lex]

I'd like to point out that this country sank trillions of dollars into the military (just this year, the amount estimated to be paid for it is $934 billion). For all the money we pump it with, we see virtually no return on investment.

Sure, the MTA is far from a bastion of fiscal responsibility, but it's not as if it's a complete waste of money (contrary to what some would claim), as there's some tangible return on investment.

As far as I'm concerned, calls for privatization are especially tone-deaf after the State of New Jersey filed a lawsuit over a private operator's shenanigans.

[Future ENY OP]

45 minutes ago, lornaevo said:

They need to enforce the fares and stop people from riding the bus for free  

While I agree with this. However, for the better of 20 years maybe plus. The MTA has had a problem when it comes to fare enforcement. It’s more fare evasion. Andy Byford was their best before Pat Foye & Sarah Feinberg came on board.  

[JAzumah]

6 minutes ago, Lex said:

I'd like to point out that this country sank trillions of dollars into the military (just this year, the amount estimated to be paid for it is $934 billion). For all the money we pump it with, we see virtually no return on investment.

Sure, the MTA is far from a bastion of fiscal responsibility, but it's not as if it's a complete waste of money (contrary to what some would claim), as there's some tangible return on investment.

As far as I'm concerned, calls for privatization are especially tone-deaf after the State of New Jersey filed a lawsuit over a private operator's shenanigans.

Privatization will happen, but it will be a result of the MTA pulling back. They will play nice with the new private operators. I do not see them outsourcing anything. I see them assisting private operators on road and rail in order to spread out their overhead. Their overhead is HEAVY. Think about how much they are saving with cutting their service output almost in half.

They are not planning to implement cuts until May 2021. That is too late. They need to come out with the cuts right now. Let's see what they are and have a robust dialogue about whether redrawing the system could help mitigate the impact in certain areas. In addition, they should NOT be cutting bus wi-fi  and BusTime. Those systems will make the network more usable because you can have a real-time snapshot of what is happening with the buses.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

16 minutes ago, Lex said:

I'd like to point out that this country sank trillions of dollars into the military (just this year, the amount estimated to be paid for it is $934 billion). For all the money we pump it with, we see virtually no return on investment.

Sure, the MTA is far from a bastion of fiscal responsibility, but it's not as if it's a complete waste of money (contrary to what some would claim), as there's some tangible return on investment.

As far as I'm concerned, calls for privatization are especially tone-deaf after the State of New Jersey filed a lawsuit over a private operator's shenanigans.

That's a bit of a stretch unless you disagree with the military's size and what they do. We get plenty of investment back from them.

[67thAve]

18 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

Privatization will happen, but it will be a result of the MTA pulling back. They will play nice with the new private operators. I do not see them outsourcing anything. I see them assisting private operators on road and rail in order to spread out their overhead. Their overhead is HEAVY. Think about how much they are saving with cutting their service output almost in half.

They are not planning to implement cuts until May 2021. That is too late. They need to come out with the cuts right now. Let's see what they are and have a robust dialogue about whether redrawing the system could help mitigate the impact in certain areas. In addition, they should NOT be cutting bus wi-fi  and BusTime. Those systems will make the network more usable because you can have a real-time snapshot of what is happening with the buses.

Watch as the MTA cuts the remaining printed schedules available for commuter trains and buses as well to save money.

The only way to figure out how long you'll be waiting for a bus will likely be third-party apps. Maybe the MTA should only sell GTFS data for a fee to third parties as a revenue stream (assuming this is not the case already)?

Edited November 19, 2020 by 67thAve