MTA's Presentation Calls for Massive Cuts to Bus Service

[Cait Sith]

4 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yes, but not the entire time. Of course at one point service was scaled back, but that has not been the case the entire time. That's my point. Metro-Morth has been scaled back from the beginning. The buses and subways have not.

Because no one was really taking it....LIRR was scaled back pretty hard too. Atlantic Terminal service was decimated and there was no Far Rockaway/Hempstead trains at Penn Station. Babylon Branch basically had the most service. Now? Babylon still has the most service. A lot of trips have been cut....

They also couldn't scale back bus and subway service the entire way because a lot of people that were taking the subways were essential workers...most notably, hospital workers. That was the MTA's entire argument throughout the whole thing.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Cait Sith

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, MHV9218 said:

So you misunderstood or simply failed to comprehend his comment. It's okay – I've provided the facts for you.

No, he said it very clearly... We need $12 billion to get us through 2021. Those were his words. I know all about the data you provided, but that doesn't negate what he said this morning, and in my mind, that means they'll need more money. Keep in mind that they were also banking on getting money from congestion pricing, which has not happened.

[MHV9218]

2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

No, he said it very clearly... We need $12 billion to get us through 2021. Those were his words. I know all about the data you provided, but that doesn't negate what he said this morning, and in my mind, that means they'll need more money. Keep in mind that they were also banking on getting money from congestion pricing, which has not happened.

I'll explain this one more time, from a good transit source: https://www.masstransitmag.com/management/article/21147376/new-york-mta-could-be-in-the-hole-162-billion-by-2024

2020 budget deficit: $3.2 billion

2021 budget deficit: $5.8 billon

2022 budget deficit: $3.5 billion (assumes return of riders)

That's what adds up to $12 billion they are requesting. Through 2024 the estimate is $16 billion,. Find me a single interview where Pat Foye or anybody says the $12 bil is for one year. You won't, because there are none. 

Man, I miss Knightrider some of these days... Via Jabroni 8!

 

[GojiMet86]

8 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Because no one was really taking it....LIRR was scaled back pretty hard too. Atlantic Terminal service was decimated and there was no Far Rockaway/Hempstead trains at Penn Station. Babylon Branch basically had the most service. Now? Babylon still has the most service. A lot of trips have been cut....

They also couldn't scale back bus and subway service the entire way because a lot of people that were taking the subways were essential workers...most notably, hospital workers. That was the MTA's entire argument throughout the whole thing.

 

12 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yes, but not the entire time. Of course at one point service was scaled back, but that has not been the case the entire time. That's my point. Metro-North has been scaled back from the beginning. The buses and subways have not.

 

I guess the question is have the subways and buses been cut, and if so, by how much?

Cait says "They also couldn't scale back bus and subway service the entire way", which is absolutely true.

 

VG8 says "Metro-North has been scaled back from the beginning. The buses and subways have not".

Which would be true......except it's not true at all. They were indeed cut, just not as much as MNRR or the LIRR......which is what Cait is saying.

 

I had to go back to March, THE BEGINNING, for this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-mta-cuts-.html

Remember how the B, W, and Z were cut? Or how frequencies were scaled back?

 

Quote

 

March 24, 2020

As the coronavirus engulfs New York, the city’s public transportation network is slashing service by at least 25 percent with ridership in free fall and an increasing number of sick workers hobbling its ability to run a normal operation.

The decision to cut service on the network, the nation’s largest, on Tuesday came after ridership on the subway plunged a staggering 87 percent — or nearly 4.8 million riders — compared with the same day last year.

Personnel shortages forced the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which oversees subways, buses and two commuter rails, to temporarily eliminate service on three subway lines: the B, the W and the Z.

.

.

.

Starting on Wednesday, the authority will reduce bus service by around 25 percent. On Friday, it will cut service on the Long Island Rail Road by around 35 percent and service on Metro-North Railroad, which serves communities north of New York City, by around 50 percent though extra trains will run during peak hours.

Seven express subway lines, including the No. 4, 5, 6, 7 and the J and D lines, will run locally on all or part of their routes.

 

 

AND it's not it would have been a good idea to cut subway service 50% or even more.

Remember how clueless everyone was about the coronavirus, including scientists and the medical profession as a whole? They wanted to be super careful about it, and at that point they figured it was more contagious than your usual flu.

Does VG8 even remember that the MTA had 24/7 service? That was cut in May, about a month and a quarter after the March cuts.

[MHV9218]

Just now, GojiMet86 said:

VG8 

VJ8, among friends. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

I'll explain this one more time, from a good transit source: https://www.masstransitmag.com/management/article/21147376/new-york-mta-could-be-in-the-hole-162-billion-by-2024

2020 budget deficit: $3.2 billion

2021 budget deficit: $5.8 billon

2022 budget deficit: $3.5 billion (assumes return of riders)

That's what adds up to $12 billion they are requesting. Through 2024 the estimate is $16 billion,. Find me a single interview where Pat Foye or anybody says the $12 bil is for one year. You won't, because there are none. 

Man, I miss Knightrider some of these days... Via Jabroni 8!

 

So their deficit is $3.2 billion in 2020, but they got about $4 billion earlier. 2021 is $5.8 billion, but they want $12 up front now...  And we should just trust them when they can't even accurately figure out how much they lose on fare beating. Sure...

 

[Lex]

2 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said:

 

 

I guess the question is have the subways and buses been cut, and if so, by how much?

Cait says "They also couldn't scale back bus and subway service the entire way", which is absolutely true.

 

VG8 says "Metro-North has been scaled back from the beginning. The buses and subways have not".

Which would be true......except it's not true at all. They were indeed cut, just not as much as MNRR or the LIRR......which is what Cait is saying.

 

I had to go back to March, THE BEGINNING, for this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-mta-cuts-.html

Remember how the B, W, and Z were cut? Or how frequencies were scaled back?

 

 

AND it's not it would have been a good idea to cut subway service 50% or even more.

Remember how clueless everyone was about the coronavirus, including scientists and the medical profession as a whole? They wanted to be super careful about it, and at that point they figured it was more contagious than your usual flu.

Does VG8 even remember that the MTA had 24/7 service? That was cut in May, about a month and a quarter after the March cuts.

The  was cut from Brooklyn, the Q20B did a take on the Q44FS (at 60-minute intervals!), hell, even SBS/Liited-stop service saw curtailments or cancellations, and many routes operated at what were effectively reduced Sunday schedules.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, Lex said:

The  was cut from Brooklyn, the Q20B did a take on the Q44FS (at 60-minute intervals!), hell, even SBS/Liited-stop service saw curtailments or cancellations, and many routes operated at what were effectively reduced Sunday schedules.

Yeah yeah yeah. That was when everything was scaled back, but this didn't go on the entire time. Point is they had lots of emoty buses and trains running around at one point and they left it like that. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Lex]

3 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

So their deficit is $3.2 billion in 2020, but they got about $4 billion earlier. 2021 is $5.8 billion, but they want $12 up front now...  And we should just trust them when they can't even accurately figure out how much they lose on fare beating. Sure...

I mean, you could also consider it to potentially be a buffer if things somehow get even worse than they're already getting.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, Lex said:

I mean, you could also consider it to potentially be a buffer if things somehow get even worse than they're already getting.

With the  it isn't a question of if. I don't think this will be the last time they'll be begging the Feds for money. There was an article I read a while ago before the pandemic that noted that this is what the  would do because their financial situation was so bad even before COVID. Listen, pre-pandemic, their costs were estimated to be going up, even with congestion pricing implemented, and each year, they would be paying more and more towards debt. 

[MHV9218]

7 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

So their deficit is $3.2 billion in 2020, but they got about $4 billion earlier. 2021 is $5.8 billion, but they want $12 up front now...  And we should just trust them when they can't even accurately figure out how much they lose on fare beating. Sure...

Maintaining the operating budget currently is how they avoid an even larger deficit later. This isn't a conspiracy, nor is it even that complicated. 

[Lex]

Just now, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah yeah yeah. That was when everything was scaled back, but this didn't go on the entire time. Point is they had lots of emoty buses and trains running sround at one point and they left it like that. 

In an area that's more densely packed, it's better to reduce the odds of people ending up on crammed buses/trains.

Speaking of empty trains, let's talk about those empty railroad lines, yeah? After all, when was the last time they regularly broke 100,000 since the pandemic started? And considering how those trains are linked and staffed, I'd argue that on a per-passenger basis, those have been far greater wastes of money.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, MHV9218 said:

Maintaining the operating budget currently is how they avoid an even larger deficit later. This isn't a conspiracy, nor is it even that complicated. 

Oh no, not a conspiracy, but again, no one trusts them, except maybe you of course. lol As I said, last year, they ******* and moaned about how much they were losing money from fare beating and that was part of the reason they needed to raise fares THIS year. Well fast forward to the last two fiscal quarters of 2019, and they admitted at their board meetings that they still had no real solution to tackle the problem, so you're losing hundreds of millions of dollars, complaining about it, and not addressing the problem. I guess that's where the taxpayers come in because we can just foot the bill for their incompetence.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, Lex said:

In an area that's more densely packed, it's better to reduce the odds of people ending up on crammed buses/trains.

Speaking of empty trains, let's talk about those empty railroad lines, yeah? After all, when was the last time they regularly broke 100,000 since the pandemic started? And considering how those trains are linked and staffed, I'd argue that on a per-passenger basis, those have been far greater wastes of money.

What waste of money? My Hudson line runs one train an hour off-peak and two trains an hour during rush hour. Hardly a waste. Bare bones service.

[Lawrence St]

20 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

What waste of money? My Hudson line runs one train an hour off-peak and two trains an hour during rush hour. Hardly a waste. Bare bones service.

VG8, considering the fact that most of these cuts are occurring to bus, I'm sorry to say but it looks like most of the railroad and express buses are going to see a significant reduction in service across the board. Staten Island may see a fewer reduction in service.

It comes down to what thinks has a higher priority. Reduce subway and local bus service or reduce railroad and express bus service. Anything that paralleled the subway was already on (MTA)'s discontinuation agenda even before COVID started.

[Lex]

16 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

What waste of money? My Hudson line runs one train an hour off-peak and two trains an hour during rush hour. Hardly a waste. Bare bones service.

First, unlike the local buses and subway, railroad users are far more likely to have more disposable incomes, meaning they have an easier time affording luxuries like cars or staying home (but I'm sure you already know that).

Second, the Hudson Line is an especially poor choice for comparison of use, as half of its catchment area is literally nothing but water, and the other half tends to have accessibility issues thanks to the roads and slopes, to say nothing of the lower density (but I'm sure you already know that).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 hours ago, Lex said:

First, unlike the local buses and subway, railroad users are far more likely to have more disposable incomes, meaning they have an easier time affording luxuries like cars or staying home (but I'm sure you already know that).

Second, the Hudson Line is an especially poor choice for comparison of use, as half of its catchment area is literally nothing but water, and the other half tends to have accessibility issues thanks to the roads and slopes, to say nothing of the lower density (but I'm sure you already know that).

I think you were missing my point, which was the service we have is fine. We aren't going to see anything else cut on my line. I have been using the line from Riverdale into Manhattan even with hourly service. Totally fine. The train is right on time. I can walk or grab an Uber to the station or even drive since there is more parking now with fewer people traveling. I have no issue with the service. The local bus riders and subway riders will feel it though. Most of the time I have been using it from discretionary travel, not for work.

You are correct about railroad riders though. We tend fo be more affluent. This article is a good example:

https://ctexaminer.com/2020/08/24/cameron-fare-equity/

 

4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

VG8, considering the fact that most of these cuts are occurring to bus, I'm sorry to say but it looks like most of the railroad and express buses are going to see a significant reduction in service across the board. Staten Island may see a fewer reduction in service.

It comes down to what thinks has a higher priority. Reduce subway and local bus service or reduce railroad and express bus service. Anything that paralleled the subway was already on (MTA)'s discontinuation agenda even before COVID started.

I don't question that, but most of us express bus riders will be fine. Worst case scenario we drive into Manhattan. If the fare goes up to $7.50 or $8.00 each way with no express bus pass, it would make more sense to drive in the days that I need to, but I'm not worried about it. I've been working from home for months and just go in here and there to the office when I want or need to.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[P3F]

I wonder if de Blasio's ferry network will survive, and with what frequencies. I believe an earlier complaint was that money was diverted from MTA Bus Company to the ferries?

[Lawrence St]

4 hours ago, P3F said:

I wonder if de Blasio's ferry network will survive, and with what frequencies. I believe an earlier complaint was that money was diverted from MTA Bus Company to the ferries?

I believe that's on a locked contract so funding has to continue being given to it, although I don't understand why a private company is running it instead of NYCDOT.

[Deucey]

On 11/19/2020 at 8:49 AM, happy283 said:

Donald trump because he is pretty much a manchild decided that he wasnt going to bail out New York because we hurt his feelings. This clown has proven that he is unable to manage anything let alone run a country.

Anyone who remembers how he took over the Eastern Airlines Shuttle - the 2nd most profitable route system in the world at the time (BOS-WAS) and had to give the banks $130M (and interest) to take it over, and how when Atlantic City truly was the East Coast's Reno and he couldn't get people to play his slot machines, and how aside from the Manhattan Company Building his only profitable building is controlled and majority owned by Vornado, knew that.

It's only people who were impressed by shiny objects and Macy's displays that chose to ignore that and think his incompetent and completely failed version of the wreckless and failed Switzerland Covid strategy was smart enough to warrant a second term. (Just remember that every other person you pass in Bay Ridge and south of the SIE believes that.)

America is doomed.

[Brillant93]

32 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Anyone who remembers how he took over the Eastern Airlines Shuttle - the 2nd most profitable route system in the world at the time (BOS-WAS) and had to give the banks $130M (and interest) to take it over, and how when Atlantic City truly was the East Coast's Reno and he couldn't get people to play his slot machines, and how aside from the Manhattan Company Building his only profitable building is controlled and majority owned by Vornado, knew that.

It's only people who were impressed by shiny objects and Macy's displays that chose to ignore that and think his incompetent and completely failed version of the wreckless and failed Switzerland Covid strategy was smart enough to warrant a second term. (Just remember that every other person you pass in Bay Ridge and south of the SIE believes that.)

America is doomed.

Trump is a corporate narcissist and people should look up that and see how many of them take charge in places and destroys them. He only cares about his image and not anyone else and it’s quite sad that he was elected just to “troll the libs” instead of people voting based on that being a president is job, not a 4chan or Twitter troll account. 

[Deucey]

14 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

Trump is a corporate narcissist and people should look up that and see how many of them take charge in places and destroys them. He only cares about his image and not anyone else and it’s quite sad that he was elected just to “troll the libs” instead of people voting based on that being a president is job, not a 4chan or Twitter troll account. 

That's why America is doomed - the vocal end of Trumpers just want to own the Libs and are motivated by conspiracy theories and rumor they believe is true, and that "moral cause" means competency doesn't matter anymore.

Add to it the conservatives' and racist-adjacent person's tendency to try explaining away shitty behavior, and the deference to Trump, and America is doomed because half the electorate no longer agrees to the common standards and morality we believed we've had for politicians for the 231years the Constitution has been in effect.

[JAzumah]

Some of you are displaying your Trump Derangement Syndrome right now.

I don't care WHAT you think about President Trump. Roll up a sock and stick it in your mouths. Nobody trusts New York political types with money. Not the Senate Republicans. Not a large chunk of the House. Not other NY politicians. Not you. Not me. If you trust the MTA with money, please head over to Quest Diagnostics and get yourself a drug test.

The bottom line is that President Trump does not allocate money. The Senate Republicans do and they believe that there is a lot of pork in that budget. The MTA is trying to get THREE YEARS worth of operating deficits covered in one shot and Pat Foye keeps crying about how the Senate Republicans are uncooperative. NO ONE is giving the MTA THREE YEARS of operating deficits in one shot so they can blow it and come back 1.5 years later saying "The gap has widened". This type of behavior is dishonest and it is exactly why Foye hasn't gone to DC to meet the Senate Republicans and earn their trust. 

Can you imagine if someone claimed to have an emergency and asked for FOUR TIMES what they needed right now?

Fun fact: Even if Joe Biden is certified as President-Elect (which he is not yet and may never be), the Senate Republicans will win at least one of the two seats in GA, giving them the ability to KEEP BLOCKING THIS MONEY. By the way, they shouldn't be blocking this money because of deficit concerns. At the same time, what the MTA is doing IS EXACTLY WHY they are blocking this money. 

So, you have two options:
Convince the people that disagree with you on funding levels that you need the money and it will be well-used.
Buy yourself a 55 gallon drum of lube because you will need it.

There are no other options. The MTA is not going to Weight Watchers voluntarily.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Deucey said:

Anyone who remembers how he took over the Eastern Airlines Shuttle - the 2nd most profitable route system in the world at the time (BOS-WAS) and had to give the banks $130M (and interest) to take it over, and how when Atlantic City truly was the East Coast's Reno and he couldn't get people to play his slot machines, and how aside from the Manhattan Company Building his only profitable building is controlled and majority owned by Vornado, knew that.

It's only people who were impressed by shiny objects and Macy's displays that chose to ignore that and think his incompetent and completely failed version of the wreckless and failed Switzerland Covid strategy was smart enough to warrant a second term. (Just remember that every other person you pass in Bay Ridge and south of the SIE believes that.)

America is doomed.

A lot of people voted for Trump because they are sick of the Democrats and their BS. They don't represent the middle class (middle or upper middle) anymore. They support outsourcing of jobs (despite their claims of otherwise), endless handouts to people just mooching that are capable of working, and so on. A lot of the people don't care about his social stance. They care about their pockets, period, and the Democrats have lost their way with those people. I don't want to be taxed to death, which under the Democrats continues to worsen. Let's handout more and more and we'll just raise taxes on somebody to pay for it. NO... That's the way the Democrats roll these days. Too far to the left. I was an Independent for years and have voted for plenty of Democrats. Switched my party affiliation after the likes of AOC got in office. I don't have much hope with Biden, a man who has been in office for over 40 years and has made promise after promise. Now he promises to make Obamacare "more affordable". I thought it was already great according to the Democrats? Well it isn't. I know of staunch Democrats that are pissed about how high the premiums are. 

Back to transit though... Let's see what he pushes for and what Pelosi (another career politician) does.  You would think the Democrats had it all figured out the way some people talk about them. Far from it... I loved Bill Clinton as President, but the reality is some the policies he supported hurt Americans (NAFTA is one of them). I don't support outsourcing of our jobs. We need jobs here in America for Americans.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Brillant93]

1 hour ago, JAzumah said:

Some of you are displaying your Trump Derangement Syndrome right now.

I don't care WHAT you think about President Trump. Roll up a sock and stick it in your mouths. Nobody trusts New York political types with money. Not the Senate Republicans. Not a large chunk of the House. Not other NY politicians. Not you. Not me. If you trust the MTA with money, please head over to Quest Diagnostics and get yourself a drug test.

The bottom line is that President Trump does not allocate money. The Senate Republicans do and they believe that there is a lot of pork in that budget. The MTA is trying to get THREE YEARS worth of operating deficits covered in one shot and Pat Foye keeps crying about how the Senate Republicans are uncooperative. NO ONE is giving the MTA THREE YEARS of operating deficits in one shot so they can blow it and come back 1.5 years later saying "The gap has widened". This type of behavior is dishonest and it is exactly why Foye hasn't gone to DC to meet the Senate Republicans and earn their trust. 

Can you imagine if someone claimed to have an emergency and asked for FOUR TIMES what they needed right now?

Fun fact: Even if Joe Biden is certified as President-Elect (which he is not yet and may never be), the Senate Republicans will win at least one of the two seats in GA, giving them the ability to KEEP BLOCKING THIS MONEY. By the way, they shouldn't be blocking this money because of deficit concerns. At the same time, what the MTA is doing IS EXACTLY WHY they are blocking this money. 

So, you have two options:
Convince the people that disagree with you on funding levels that you need the money and it will be well-used.
Buy yourself a 55 gallon drum of lube because you will need it.

There are no other options. The MTA is not going to Weight Watchers voluntarily.

Bruh were not blaming Trump for the lack of money but his leadership and his god forsaken stupid mouth is influencing these things to not pass. The fact they’re dangeling a carrot at many underprivileged Americans at this moment in a pandemic is just beyond sadist. 
 

Also Biden has won the election, the sore loser of the hot cheeto man needs to get it through his head. 
 

p.s. no matter who or what you vote for make sure you have politicians that can stand out in a respectful manner not pettiness.