Kamen Rider Posted February 24 Share #376 Posted February 24 Has it ever occurred to anyone that if it was reasonable to connect them, they would have built it? thing is, something like that… gonna be really labor intensive and expensive. they would have to be regularly using it to make it worth while. a connection like that, on the off chance it’s needed one day? that doesn’t make good fiscal sense. Unless you plant to try to squeeze an 8th-SAS line in, it’s not going to be worth it. Send the E via 6th and be done with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted February 26 Author Share #377 Posted February 26 (edited) On 2/24/2024 at 1:20 AM, Kamen Rider said: Has it ever occurred to anyone that if it was reasonable to connect them, they would have built it? thing is, something like that… gonna be really labor intensive and expensive. they would have to be regularly using it to make it worth while. a connection like that, on the off chance it’s needed one day? that doesn’t make good fiscal sense. Unless you plant to try to squeeze an 8th-SAS line in, it’s not going to be worth it. Send the E via 6th and be done with it. Some of these folks cant comprehend or want to deal with that reality... Yet wait till CBTC is in full effect in say ten years on 6th 8th Queens and Crosstown.. Then watch the Fun.. Ill be retired and not living in this area so i wont care... Edited February 26 by RTOMan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade96 Posted February 26 Share #378 Posted February 26 Man oh man am I glad most of these people dont plan for transit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDL Posted February 26 Share #379 Posted February 26 On 2/23/2024 at 6:27 PM, Vulturious said: I have a few questions: Huh?! How does this solve anything? Why?! Running the with the is one thing, at least there's one less merge to deal with in this scenario. However, having the run express along QBL while the is running around too just creates the same exact problem where the would need to split and cut off the while merging with the along with the cutting off the in the process. QBL is somehow just as bad if not worse than the current setup, there's no extra service being provided in this scenario. Remember, this assumes a complete shutdown of 53rd, meaning only the and would be serving Queens Plaza. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted February 26 Share #380 Posted February 26 2 hours ago, TDL said: Remember, this assumes a complete shutdown of 53rd, meaning only the and would be serving Queens Plaza. Under a complete Shutdown of 53rd, you might as well do the same GO they’ve been doing for years, Via 63rd Street/6th Avenue Serving Queens Plaza-60th. to Chambers. Its already simple enough 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted February 26 Share #381 Posted February 26 7 hours ago, RTOMan said: Yet wait till CBTC is in full effect in say ten years on 6th 8th Queens and Crosstown.. 8th is coming very soon so we might not have to wait that long. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDL Posted February 26 Share #382 Posted February 26 48 minutes ago, LGA Link N Train said: Under a complete Shutdown of 53rd, you might as well do the same GO they’ve been doing for years, Via 63rd Street/6th Avenue Serving Queens Plaza-60th. to Chambers. Its already simple enough This means losing service and Qns Plaza express service however 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted February 26 Share #383 Posted February 26 Like I said, we’ve done that in the past, straight up closing the plaza at night, but that was weekend work. then again, we don’t need to do the same level of work in 53rd street we’re doing in 63rd. This is completely replacing the direct fixation track with “type 2” track. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted February 26 Share #384 Posted February 26 6 hours ago, TDL said: Remember, this assumes a complete shutdown of 53rd, meaning only the and would be serving Queens Plaza. The MTA has been running the via 63 St, to Chambers St, and the on it's own at Queens Plaza for the past few Christmas weeks already. Is it going to suck? Yes, but it's still 100% better than the other proposal dragging the into this mess especially under your proposal having the run QBL Express. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDL Posted February 27 Share #385 Posted February 27 4 hours ago, Vulturious said: The MTA has been running the via 63 St, to Chambers St, and the on it's own at Queens Plaza for the past few Christmas weeks already. Is it going to suck? Yes, but it's still 100% better than the other proposal dragging the into this mess especially under your proposal having the run QBL Express. It’s not any worse than the switching at Queens Plaza 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstar8983 Posted February 27 Share #386 Posted February 27 8 hours ago, LGA Link N Train said: Under a complete Shutdown of 53rd, you might as well do the same GO they’ve been doing for years, Via 63rd Street/6th Avenue Serving Queens Plaza-60th. to Chambers. Its already simple enough Too bad you can’t move the to 8 Av via West 4 Switches to 168 St (just so the doesn’t go to Chambers full-time for an extended period of time outside of school-vacation times). Believe it or not, people actually USE the train. In terms of equipment, fewer R160s would be needed for a 168 St-Metro Av service (every 10 minutes due to capacity constraints on CPW, sharing with the ) compared to a 71 Av-Metro Av service anyways. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted February 27 Share #387 Posted February 27 22 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said: Too bad you can’t move the to 8 Av via West 4 Switches to 168 St (just so the doesn’t go to Chambers full-time for an extended period of time outside of school-vacation times). Believe it or not, people actually USE the train. In terms of equipment, fewer R160s would be needed for a 168 St-Metro Av service (every 10 minutes due to capacity constraints on CPW, sharing with the ) compared to a 71 Av-Metro Av service anyways. I mean…. If you want to throw in a GO involving West 4th or Rutgers in order to achieve this then by all means go ahead, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted February 27 Share #388 Posted February 27 8 hours ago, TDL said: This means losing service and Qns Plaza express service however Its not the biggest loss in the world, and as a QBL Rider, yea it’d be annoying but there’s ways around it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted February 27 Share #389 Posted February 27 53rd street getting a total shutdown would be, like, a week at best. They are not ripping out the entire tunnel floor like they are for 63rd street, or the work done on the Archer Avenue Line’s two levels a few years ago. this theoretical project would not be anywhere near the headache some people seem to think it would be 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted February 27 Share #390 Posted February 27 3 hours ago, Kamen Rider said: 53rd street getting a total shutdown would be, like, a week at best. They are not ripping out the entire tunnel floor like they are for 63rd street, or the work done on the Archer Avenue Line’s two levels a few years ago. this theoretical project would not be anywhere near the headache some people seem to think it would be Under that scenario, all of the Equipment that needs to be Serviced can be all knocked out within that week. Lexington, 5th and 7th Avenues can ALL get cleaned up. A shit ton of garbage can be cleaned up from the Right of Way as well…. Its a lot but it can be done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDL Posted February 27 Share #391 Posted February 27 Or here's another plan (that actually might operationally work better than the current plan): -207th St-Far Rockaway, via 8th/Fulton EXP (no lefferts service) -Brighton Beach-Jamaica Ctr, via. Brighton/6th/63rd/QBL EXP -205th St-Lefferts Blvd, via Concourse LCL/8th EXP/Fulton LCL -145th/BPB-Coney Is. -168th St- Coney Is, via. 8th LCL/Culver LCL, switching at W4. -Jamaica 179th-WTC, via 6th Ave LCL, switches to 8th after West 4th -Extended to Forest Hills via. QBL Local -Broad St-Jamaica Center. Express in peak direction between Marcy Ave and Broadway Jct. -Metropolitan Ave-Chambers St. -unchanged -unchanged -Bay Pkwy-Forest Hills, via. West End/4th Ave/Bway/QBL LCL -unchanged - Bay Ridge- Broadway Junction via. 4th Lcl/Nassau LCL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theli11 Posted February 27 Share #392 Posted February 27 19 minutes ago, TDL said: Or here's another plan (that actually might operationally work better than the current plan): -207th St-Far Rockaway, via 8th/Fulton EXP (no lefferts service) -Brighton Beach-Jamaica Ctr, via. Brighton/6th/63rd/QBL EXP -205th St-Lefferts Blvd, via Concourse LCL/8th EXP/Fulton LCL -145th/BPB-Coney Is. -168th St- Coney Is, via. 8th LCL/Culver LCL, switching at W4. -Jamaica 179th-WTC, via 6th Ave LCL, switches to 8th after West 4th -Extended to Forest Hills via. QBL Local -Broad St-Jamaica Center. Express in peak direction between Marcy Ave and Broadway Jct. -Metropolitan Ave-Chambers St. -unchanged -unchanged -Bay Pkwy-Forest Hills, via. West End/4th Ave/Bway/QBL LCL -unchanged - Bay Ridge- Broadway Junction via. 4th Lcl/Nassau LCL All of this and I have no idea why you're doing any of it. There's a place for you and it's here. Most of these don't have anything to do with 63rd St being shut down. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted March 1 Share #393 Posted March 1 On 2/26/2024 at 3:01 PM, LGA Link N Train said: Under a complete Shutdown of 53rd, you might as well do the same GO they’ve been doing for years, Via 63rd Street/6th Avenue Serving Queens Plaza-60th. to Chambers. Its already simple enough Or with 63rd Street open, you do to 96th/2nd. I would actually consider putting the back on QBL and have the run to 96th/2nd 19/7 at least until the is running because I suspect UES riders would want a 6th Avenue service in addition to the in what is the one of the most densely populated areas of the entire country where the SAS was LONG overdue when it finally opened in 2017, especially those that work at the hospital on York Avenue that use the 69th Street entrance to the 72nd Street station (and also why when the 63rd Street tunnel was built they should have looked at building a York-1st Avenue station the could have been using now). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstar8983 Posted March 1 Share #394 Posted March 1 27 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said: Or with 63rd Street open, you do to 96th/2nd. I would actually consider putting the back on QBL and have the run to 96th/2nd 19/7 at least until the is running because I suspect UES riders would want a 6th Avenue service in addition to the in what is the one of the most densely populated areas of the entire country where the SAS was LONG overdue when it finally opened in 2017, especially those that work at the hospital on York Avenue that use the 69th Street entrance to the 72nd Street station (and also why when the 63rd Street tunnel was built they should have looked at building a York-1st Avenue station the could have been using now). How would this help your response to 53 St tunnel closure for repairs? You already have the routed via 63 St for the “repair” GO, and usually those two routes need their service reduced to fit on 6 Av (no 179 St trips). The would need to run either via 8 Av to CPW, or to Chambers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted March 1 Share #395 Posted March 1 1 hour ago, Wallyhorse said: Or with 63rd Street open, you do to 96th/2nd. I would actually consider putting the back on QBL and have the run to 96th/2nd 19/7 at least until the is running because I suspect UES riders would want a 6th Avenue service in addition to the in what is the one of the most densely populated areas of the entire country where the SAS was LONG overdue when it finally opened in 2017, especially those that work at the hospital on York Avenue that use the 69th Street entrance to the 72nd Street station (and also why when the 63rd Street tunnel was built they should have looked at building a York-1st Avenue station the could have been using now). And what does this have to do with the current topic at hand? A GO for a 53rd Street Shutdown after 63rd is complete would require near max capacity on 6th Local and 63rd Street so there’d be no space for the to go to 96th/2nd under this Scenario. While I didn’t address this earlier, unless we have enough equipment to run the on QBL, might as well continue with what already works. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkstar8983 Posted March 2 Share #396 Posted March 2 16 hours ago, LGA Link N Train said: And what does this have to do with the current topic at hand? A GO for a 53rd Street Shutdown after 63rd is complete would require near max capacity on 6th Local and 63rd Street so there’d be no space for the to go to 96th/2nd under this Scenario. While I didn’t address this earlier, unless we have enough equipment to run the on QBL, might as well continue with what already works. This is why i proposed having the run up via 8 Av using the W 4 St interlocking. The would cross around each other, not in front of each other, allowing both routes to run thru simultaneously. The would still originate from World Trade Center and the coming from Brooklyn, meaning no capacity sharing. Just think of it is another type of DeKalb Av Interlocking, where the pair and the pair from Manhattan switch and then become the pair (4 Av) and the pair (Brighton). However in this case it would be the pair coming from the south and the pair becoming the pair and the pair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted March 2 Share #397 Posted March 2 again, a protentional 53rd street shut down is NOT the same level of work. We really don't need to worry about the M in these circumstances. what they are doing in 63rd, in case none of you have paid a visit, is completely ripping out the concrete tunnel floor down to the bare steel that separates the subway and LIRR levels. this is to replace the direct fixation track (IIRC also known as "Type 8" track) with the more common and easier to work on "Type 2 modified", the kind you see on most of the IND, with the fixed half ties in the concrete, and occasional full cross ties. The 53rd street tunnel is "type 2" as originally built, so the work it would need would be simple rail replacement, which will not require heavy construction for months on end. This could easily be done weekends and overnights. Or, if they want it done super quick, they just cut the M back to Essex/Chambers again, the way they used to do for that annual weeklong closure that was often done between Christmas and New years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade96 Posted March 2 Share #398 Posted March 2 18 hours ago, LGA Link N Train said: And what does this have to do with the current topic at hand? A GO for a 53rd Street Shutdown after 63rd is complete would require near max capacity on 6th Local and 63rd Street so there’d be no space for the to go to 96th/2nd under this Scenario. While I didn’t address this earlier, unless we have enough equipment to run the on QBL, might as well continue with what already works. dont pay wallyhorse any mind, none of his plans are meant to help people, just to fullfill the foamer fantasies 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacster Posted March 2 Share #399 Posted March 2 How about this for speculation: E/F on 63rd, with E to WTC and F as normal M from Bway/Laf, up 8th Ave, to 53rd/Lex during weekday. There's a diamond crossover entering the tunnel, but I don't know how far down, to turn the trains there. Work needed in the vicinity of the stations can be done off hours when this is not running. This will replace the E, which is a busy train from the east side to Port Authority and Penn. R as normal G to Forest Hills using R179s from the A, which will be backfilled with the R46s that are no longer necessary. This will allow some capacity to transfer at Court Sq, although my recollection is that this is a very long transfer. Practical? Probably not. Possible? Mostly. But if this work can be done during the overnight or weekend hours only don't do any of this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted March 2 Share #400 Posted March 2 Can we not turn a serious conversation about a construction project into “service fantasy thread #7345217” that is probably the most annoying thing people do around here. Feels like every single thread some armchair with too much free time has to try to suggest a “better” way to do something… and I keep saying in this thread it’s unnecessary, we already have plans in place for such work in our back pockets for when we need it… and nobody listens to me… 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.