63rd Street Tunnel Shutdown Begins Last week in August.

[darkstar8983]

56 minutes ago, Kamen Rider said:

And it has now been added.

M to Chambers Street for Presidents Day week (Tuesday through Friday)

Since the  is being rerouted to Chambers St AND there is no change to current  service (both via 53 St, the  still via 8 Av and the  via 6 Av), this could mean that the switches at 57 St-6 Av or trackage between 47-50 Sts and 57 St will get replaced too, especially since crew-wise, its a wash (no additional $$$ needed  to run the  to Chambers every 8 minutes as opposed to running the  to 57 St/6 Av every 10 minutes). The running time seems shorter for the Chambers , but remember that trains have to relay south of Chambers, then come back, while the  at 57 St turns around immediately, assuming that crews must turn their own trains. 

Edited January 26 by darkstar8983

[RTOMan]

 service NB via 63rd street this weekend...

Going to be Fun for some of  those TOs operating into Roosevelt Island...

With New Rails and All...

[RTOMan]

This weekend they will start working on T1 track now...

Add a few more months to this say May or June until completion...

Edited February 14 by RTOMan

[darkstar8983]

23 minutes ago, RTOMan said:

This weekend they will start working on T1 track now...

Add a few more months to this say May or June until completion...

I remember when the original plan for the 63 St tunnel reconstruction was only going to take six months, and broken up into 3 phases (roughly 2 months per phase), and now we’re in month 6, and just now starting the second track. Likely will be summer 2024 when the work is finished, but long as the work is done correctly, because the 53 St tunnel needs a closure of its own for repairs after being in continuous use by the  

[RTOMan]

12 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

I remember when the original plan for the 63 St tunnel reconstruction was only going to take six months, and broken up into 3 phases (roughly 2 months per phase), and now we’re in month 6, and just now starting the second track. Likely will be summer 2024 when the work is finished, but long as the work is done correctly, because the 53 St tunnel needs a closure of its own for repairs after being in continuous use by the  

Agreed better safe than sorry....

[LGA Link N Train]

1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

because the 53 St tunnel needs a closure of its own for repairs after being in continuous use by the  

The amount of Equipment that needs to be maintained between South of the Plaza to 50th and 8th is…. A lot to put it into perspective. Yesterday morning …or was it the day before?, there was a water condition north of Court Square where water was gushing onto the RoW on D4 Track. 

(Also, even though this is more of a Station thing, Lexington, 5th Avenue and 7th Avenue are all nasty atm from continuous use) 

[Kamen Rider]

14 hours ago, RTOMan said:

This weekend they will start working on T1 track now...

Add a few more months to this say May or June until completion...

(Insert Arseno Hall "Coming to America" Spit Take)

They switched tracks almost six weeks ago and are only actually getting to start NOW...? 

At this rate might as well just leave everything till the next pick starts... 

[Comrade96]

wow lmfao, 6 weeks of not doing much

[RTOMan]

9 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

(Insert Arseno Hall "Coming to America" Spit Take)

They switched tracks almost six weeks ago and are only actually getting to start NOW...? 

At this rate might as well just leave everything till the next pick starts... 

Heh ya think? 

[JSLR7]

On 2/14/2024 at 9:28 AM, darkstar8983 said:

because the 53 St tunnel needs a closure of its own for repairs after being in continuous use by the  

If there is a months-long closure of 53rd St like 63rd St, I wonder what the service pattern would be. I don't think there's capacity for  and  trains via 6th Av/63rd St alone. And you can't have  trains detour to 8th Av and terminate somewhere in midtown on weekdays like the current setup at 57th St. Maybe just not have the  run in midtown at all and compensate 8th Av with some extra  trains terminating at 2nd Av.

[zacster]

Closing 53rd St would mean no E trains to 8th Ave, and that's a busy line.  A lot of people on those trains going from the East Side to Penn and Port Authority.  53rd St is a busy corridor both below and above ground.  It would also leave only the R at Queens Plaza.  It will be a lot harder with more disruption than closing 63rd St.

[Kamen Rider]

I mean, we have done it loads of times in the past, E both directions via 63rd, with Queens Plaza closed at night, but those have always been weekends

[Wallyhorse]

7 hours ago, zacster said:

Closing 53rd St would mean no E trains to 8th Ave, and that's a busy line.  A lot of people on those trains going from the East Side to Penn and Port Authority.  53rd St is a busy corridor both below and above ground.  It would also leave only the R at Queens Plaza.  It will be a lot harder with more disruption than closing 63rd St.

And this shows why if possible they need to extend the 63rd Street tunnel so it reaches the 8th Avenue line.   That would allow when needed for the  to run via 63rd without any other detours along the way.

[CenSin]

19 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

they need to extend the 63rd Street tunnel so it reaches the 8th Avenue line.   That would allow when needed for the  to run via 63rd without any other detours along the way.

Yeah! This sucks. I had to walk an extra avenue to access the ! It’s not like the they’ve got easy access to all the transfers that the has between World Trade Center and 7 Avenue!

(/s)

[darkstar8983]

10 hours ago, JSLR7 said:

If there is a months-long closure of 53rd St like 63rd St, I wonder what the service pattern would be. I don't think there's capacity for  and  trains via 6th Av/63rd St alone. And you can't have  trains detour to 8th Av and terminate somewhere in midtown on weekdays like the current setup at 57th St. Maybe just not have the  run in midtown at all and compensate 8th Av with some extra  trains terminating at 2nd Av.

They’ve done that closure before, every Christmas week, and the  gets sent to Chambers St during that GO. Really is too bad that you really cannot send the  via 8 Av after Broadway-Lafayette St, then via Central Park West just to keep trains moving. The switches are available at West 4 St for that operation (moving  trains from WTC to 6 Av and simultaneously moving  trains from Broadway-Lafayette to 8 Av) without crossing over. nycsubway.org ‘s track map shows it. Just need to convince the people in operations to send the  to Central Park West (likely 168 St) and provide 8 Av service while this hypothetical 53 St closure happens. Would still be fewer trainsets than the full-length  to 71 Av.

Edited February 23 by darkstar8983

[Vulturious]

2 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

They’ve done that closure before, every Christmas week, and the  gets sent to Chambers St during that GO. Really is too bad that you really cannot send the  via 8 Av after Broadway-Lafayette St, then via Central Park West just to keep trains moving. The switches are not available at West 4 St for that operation (moving  trains from WTC to 6 Av and simultaneously moving  trains from Broadway-Lafayette to 8 Av) without crossing over. (Or is there a way?)

Wait, huh? I thought it was possible? I guess I don't really know how the track switches are designed through that area so maybe someone that knows how West 4 St switches work can chime in, but theoretically, it should be possible to have trains swap between 6 and 8 Av local entirely without either of them merging with each other. The only thing that would suck is the  needing to deal with both the  and .

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, Vulturious said:

Wait, huh? I thought it was possible? I guess I don't really know how the track switches are designed through that area so maybe someone that knows how West 4 St switches work can chime in, but theoretically, it should be possible to have trains swap between 6 and 8 Av local entirely without either of them merging with each other. The only thing that would suck is the  needing to deal with both the  and .

It is possible according to the track maps on nycsubway.org - I checked again. But yeah the issue would be the  terminal in midtown but should be attempted. Run the  every 10 minutes along the whole line to/from 168 St. This way the  all fit on CPW local. And yes they should build a connection between 59’St Columbus Circle (north of) and Lexington Av-63 St, connecting to the local track.

[TDL]

22 hours ago, JSLR7 said:

If there is a months-long closure of 53rd St like 63rd St, I wonder what the service pattern would be. I don't think there's capacity for  and  trains via 6th Av/63rd St alone. And you can't have  trains detour to 8th Av and terminate somewhere in midtown on weekdays like the current setup at 57th St. Maybe just not have the  run in midtown at all and compensate 8th Av with some extra  trains terminating at 2nd Av.

You would have to have  serve QBL,  express,  local. If they wanted to send the  along with the  to Forest Hills they could but that would cause staffing issues since the  is a glorified . The  would run as normal.

[TDL]

1 minute ago, TDL said:

You would have to have  serve QBL,  express,  local. If they wanted to send the  along with the  to Forest Hills they could but that would cause staffing issues since the  is a glorified . The  would run as normal.

And the  could run on 63rd. So in total

 

-QBL Local/ 63rd

-QBL Local/Crosstown

-QBL express/63rd

-QBL express/Broadway

[TDL]

Just now, TDL said:

And the  could run on 63rd. So in total

 

-QBL Local/ 63rd

-QBL Local/Crosstown

-QBL express/63rd

-QBL express/Broadway

The  connects with the 8th Ave Line at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, the  at Times Sq, Cortlandt, and Jay Street, and the  at West 4th St (the  also at Jay St)

[TDL]

A more frequent  could even run skip-stop service on crosstown, youd have a  and a .

 

After Ct Squ-  serves Greenpoint Ave, Broadway, Classon, Fulton

 serves Nassau Ave, Myrtle Willoughby, Clinton Washington

 

Both serve Metropolitan Ave, Bedford Nostrand, Hoyt, and all stops to Church Ave. 

[Vulturious]

9 hours ago, TDL said:

And the  could run on 63rd. So in total

 

-QBL Local/ 63rd

-QBL Local/Crosstown

-QBL express/63rd

-QBL express/Broadway

I have a few questions:

• Huh?!
• How does this solve anything?
• Why?!

Running the  with the  is one thing, at least there's one less merge to deal with in this scenario. However, having the  run express along QBL while the  is running around too just creates the same exact problem where the  would need to split and cut off the  while merging with the  along with the  cutting off the  in the process. QBL is somehow just as bad if not worse than the current setup, there's no extra service being provided in this scenario. 

[CenSin]

22 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

And yes they should build a connection between 59’St Columbus Circle (north of) and Lexington Av-63 St, connecting to the local track.

The express tracks maybe—depending on how many streets north the connection has to be made to connect to 63 Street. There’s a long stretch of switches and flyovers.

Connecting to the local tracks would probably be not doable. At least one of the locals track would be quite difficult to reach.

1. The southbound local track is entirely underneath the west side of Central Park West.
2. Where the flyovers are, the northbound local track and both express tracks wall off the southbound local track.

It’s shielded from the left and right.

A track connection north of 59 Street would be a terrible idea: you have a junction just south of the station. Either 8 Avenue or 6 Avenue would have to be kicked off the express tracks, because it would result in a merge and diverge choke point at that one station.

A new platform underneath the two levels? lol. Where south of the station would there be room to make a track connection?

[darkstar8983]

44 minutes ago, CenSin said:

The express tracks maybe—depending on how many streets north the connection has to be made to connect to 63 Street. There’s a long stretch of switches and flyovers.

Connecting to the local tracks would probably be not doable. At least one of the locals track would be quite difficult to reach.

1. The southbound local track is entirely underneath the west side of Central Park West.
2. Where the flyovers are, the northbound local track and both express tracks wall off the southbound local track.

It’s shielded from the left and right.

A track connection north of 59 Street would be a terrible idea: you have a junction just south of the station. Either 8 Avenue or 6 Avenue would have to be kicked off the express tracks, because it would result in a merge and diverge choke point at that one station.

A new platform underneath the two levels? lol. Where south of the station would there be room to make a track connection?

Actually north would work better because the 63 St connector can just diverge right after the diamond crossover and before the northbound local track starts to flyover the rest of the tracks. The southbound local track connection can merge right before the first crossover of local track to express track. Just dig the 63 St tunnel connector lower so that it can pass under Central Park. Then have it merge with the  track right before the interlocking with the .

[CenSin]

1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

The southbound local track connection can merge right before the first crossover of local track to express track. Just dig the 63 St tunnel connector lower so that it can pass under Central Park. Then have it merge with the  track right before the interlocking with the .

I’m not seeing the solution.

The southbound express track hugs the southbound local track all the way from from 72 Street to 59 Street. Going under and merging in from the western side of Central Park West wouldn’t work since Central Park West is built to be under the western half of Central Park West. Shortly after passing 72 Street, both southbound tracks veer west to make room for the northbound tracks. You can see sidewalk grating south of 62 Street, which means the track connection has to be made at or just south of 63 Street. Obviously, in the IND style, the curve radius has to be big enough to occupy an entire Manhattan street block. So working backwards from that point, the 63 Street connection would have to reach as high as 65 Street for the ramp and curve.