CenSin Posted March 15 Share #426 Posted March 15 6 hours ago, BelieveinMe said: The M line has become a vital service, needing a service enhancement at both ends of the line. The word “vital” isn’t how the MTA and bean counters are using the word. Relative to people who use the and nothing else, of course it’s vital. But tell me what part of the subway system the serves that no other route already serves? Only the Myrtle Avenue branch. The is small fry in a big pond along with the , , and . 6 hours ago, BelieveinMe said: What the MTA has done was make the best of bad decisions it has made in the past. The choice to route express trains through 63rd was to reduce delays, and make the route useful. The glaring missing link is, of course, the Queens Bypass route, that was essential to the 63rd st Tunnel's very existence. The F was a compromise for the missing services, but never managed to live up to expectations. The Night service is backwards also... however, the length of the F line makes over night express service necessary for crew comfort. You got it here. It’s always about compromises whether it’s, routing around the tracks that do exist (as opposed to fantasy ones that do not), getting the best service bang for the buck (within the morass of the agency’s fiscal inefficiencies), evening out traffic (despite sending passengers where they do not want to be), or placating the union, the NYC subway is an average of all the necessities being met. So while I agree that all of this is nice (if we had a boatload of cash to keep it going): 7 hours ago, BelieveinMe said: Flipping the F and M East River crossing would make sense here. 7 hours ago, BelieveinMe said: The F using 63rd st practically bypassing a key section of LIC hasn't worked for a large demographic. They won’t happen without around-the-clock service and station enhancements to mitigate the dangers of overcrowding Lexington Avenue/53 Street. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted March 15 Share #427 Posted March 15 8 hours ago, BelieveinMe said: Flipping the F and M East River crossing would make sense here. No, for reason I laid out months ago, it is not a good idea. Unless the M becomes a 24/7 full length line, the F will have to return to 63rd street every evening. The last timetabled M out of 71st is about 8:30. the other issue is you’re cutting the QB locals off from the G without transferring multiple times. as it is, the E and F do not fit into the 53rd street tube at full capacity. They had to cut back on some service to compensate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted March 15 Share #428 Posted March 15 One small problem: The as you would do it would skip Queens Plaza. While many in Manhattan are with and one-block walk of the or can transfer to the from the at 34th or Queens Plaza, it still would for some be a considerable inconvience. You also would have to likely make the a 24/7 line for it to work (with the remaining a local late-nights since one line would need to serve Queens Plaza and the local stations unless you want to late nights bring the back to QBL late nights). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelieveinMe Posted March 15 Share #429 Posted March 15 1 hour ago, Kamen Rider said: No, for reason I laid out months ago, it is not a good idea. Unless the M becomes a 24/7 full length line, the F will have to return to 63rd street every evening. The last timetabled M out of 71st is about 8:30. the other issue is you’re cutting the QB locals off from the G without transferring multiple times. as it is, the E and F do not fit into the 53rd street tube at full capacity. They had to cut back on some service to compensate. 53rd st had a 30tph headway Built into the old system. With CBTC, whenever they actually finish the entire set up,trains will be able to travel closer together. The reason Why service was reduced was due to CBTC work being carried out east of Kew Gardens. As far as the local services being cut off from the G line, this is the MTAs fault for removing the G from QB in the first place. The M certainly needs an upgrade,as shown during the late night SAS service pattern, with riders packed on up to 2 am when the service went to bed for the night. 24hr M service would actually work out better in the long And short run. The Current E and F services are down to 12 tph each, with no 179 E service. Trackwork/CBTC within the 63 st tunnel played into the CURRENT SERVICE PATTERN, and that's what we are dealing with CURRENTY. Im wondering why they needed to rebuild an previously "rebuilt tracked" so thoroughly... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted March 15 Share #430 Posted March 15 6 hours ago, BelieveinMe said: Im wondering why they needed to rebuild an previously "rebuilt tracked" so thoroughly... Much of that track (or at least the framework for that track) was originally laid down in the early 1970's and was/is over 50 years old. There likely were some serious cracks and they had to go all the way to the foundation to get at those. 7 hours ago, Kamen Rider said: the other issue is you’re cutting the QB locals off from the G without transferring multiple times. as it is, the E and F do not fit into the 53rd street tube at full capacity. They had to cut back on some service to compensate. I wasn't even thinking about the other than possibly having to bring that back onto QBL late nights. Yes, there are those who do transfer at Court Square to the and an running local would miss that. Either you would need the also running 24/7 or the as noted brought back onto QBL late nights. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted March 16 Share #431 Posted March 16 So, at this point, they have still not added any extension to the GO to the planned service changes page… and infact have added another GO. Northbound platform at Northern Blvd will be closed for accessibility work starting April 8th… and the weekday posts specifically mention the M… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted March 16 Author Share #432 Posted March 16 3 minutes ago, Kamen Rider said: So, at this point, they have still not added any extension to the GO to the planned service changes page… and infact have added another GO. Northbound platform at Northern Blvd will be closed for accessibility work starting April 8th… and the weekday posts specifically mention the M… Maybe they'll have 63rd street finished.. Finally... That 12-9 at Lex ave NB totally wrecked the and yesterday evening... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted March 16 Share #433 Posted March 16 27 minutes ago, RTOMan said: Maybe they'll have 63rd street finished.. Finally... That 12-9 at Lex ave NB totally wrecked the and yesterday evening... No points for guessing who was trying to shuffle her way up 6th Avenue on a Mikey in the middle of all that... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyclonicTrainLookout Posted March 19 Share #434 Posted March 19 It is interesting though: the weekend of April 12-15 had Queens-bound trains bypassing 36 St to 65th Street, with the planned work post explicitly stating to take the to 21-Queensbridge for Queens-bound service. Unless something happens, signs are pointing to an end-of-month completion of the 63rd Street reconstruction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestrictOnTheHanger Posted March 19 Share #435 Posted March 19 Friday March 29 runs to Chambers all day 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris89292 Posted March 19 Share #436 Posted March 19 service will be restored back to normal on April 1st according to the MTA https://new.mta.info/press-release/mta-announces-regular-service-being-restored-f-and-m-lines-following-critical-track the swap isn’t permanent by the way like many people speculated, will continue to run via 63rd street and via 53rd street 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSMG106 Posted March 20 Share #437 Posted March 20 (edited) 5 hours ago, Chris89292 said: service will be restored back to normal on April 1st according to the MTA https://new.mta.info/press-release/mta-announces-regular-service-being-restored-f-and-m-lines-following-critical-track the swap isn’t permanent by the way like many people speculated, will continue to run via 63rd street and via 53rd street This decision is not good to me. I've been going to Queens via QBL before and during the shutdown, and the via 53rd Street did help with the delays near Queens Plaza, where trains interfere with one another. It is best for the to run via 63rd Street, and continue running on the local tracks to Forest Hills, and allow for the to be via 53rd Street. This service pattern is popular with riders, and it is sadly being thrown out of the window in favor of how it was prior to the shutdown. Edited March 20 by RSMG106 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbridgeviewer382 Posted March 20 Share #438 Posted March 20 28 minutes ago, RSMG106 said: This decision is not good to me. I've been going to Queens via QBL before and during the shutdown, and the via 53rd Street did help with the delays near Queens Plaza, where trains interfere with one another. It is best for the to run via 63rd Street, and continue running on the local tracks to Forest Hills, and allow for the to be via 53rd Street. This service pattern is popular with riders, and it is sadly being thrown out of the window in favor of how it was prior to the shutdown. Riders are going to complain about the lack of weekend service on the 63rd St Line and I doubt the wants to put money to have the be extended and run full-length trains again on weekends. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted March 20 Share #439 Posted March 20 21 minutes ago, Kingsbridgeviewer382 said: Riders are going to complain about the lack of weekend service on the 63rd St Line and I doubt the wants to put money to have the be extended and run full-length trains again on weekends. The could run to 21st queens bridge on nights and weekends meaning the is 24/7 in Manhattan. But the only drawback is less TPH on the / . The Drawback of the going via 53rd is the merge at Queens Plaza. Both have pros and Cons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted March 20 Share #440 Posted March 20 7 hours ago, RSMG106 said: This decision is not good to me. I've been going to Queens via QBL before and during the shutdown, and the via 53rd Street did help with the delays near Queens Plaza, where trains interfere with one another. It is best for the to run via 63rd Street, and continue running on the local tracks to Forest Hills, and allow for the to be via 53rd Street. This service pattern is popular with riders, and it is sadly being thrown out of the window in favor of how it was prior to the shutdown. So what's the plan for nights and weekends? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Spire Posted March 20 Share #441 Posted March 20 1 hour ago, Lex said: So what's the plan for nights and weekends? Have the run via 63rd Street weekends? But that would create another merge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted March 20 Author Share #442 Posted March 20 Yes they will be done with 63rd street come April 1st (im sure with a few GOs for punch work a shutdown weekend).. Service patterns will go back to how it was before 63rd, 53rd... For those who wish (and i mean wish) for the flip flop not happening because the will be cut back as it is already and just adding more switch movement in the 36th street area just isn't worth the CBTC glitch factor. It Glitches out often in that area. Weekend late night late evening service however might be different (ill really find out once i see that supplement).. service local a bit more so no more Full time express service in Queens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted March 20 Author Share #443 Posted March 20 1 hour ago, Robert Spire said: Have the run via 63rd Street weekends? But that would create another merge. Not happening unless there a GO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted March 20 Author Share #444 Posted March 20 9 hours ago, R32 3838 said: The could run to 21st queens bridge on nights and weekends meaning the is 24/7 in Manhattan. But the only drawback is less TPH on the / . The Drawback of the going via 53rd is the merge at Queens Plaza. Both have pros and Cons. Not happening.. Yet.... When they get CBTC up and running in Queens then we could see things like that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSLR7 Posted March 21 Share #445 Posted March 21 On 3/19/2024 at 11:46 PM, R32 3838 said: The could run to 21st queens bridge on nights and weekends meaning the is 24/7 in Manhattan. But the only drawback is less TPH on the / . The Drawback of the going via 53rd is the merge at Queens Plaza. Both have pros and Cons. Why would there be less TPH on the / ? Do the switches south of 5th/53rd have a lower capacity than the switches south of 36th St in Queens? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted March 21 Share #446 Posted March 21 3 hours ago, JSLR7 said: Why would there be less TPH on the / ? Do the switches south of 5th/53rd have a lower capacity than the switches south of 36th St in Queens? When they made the go via 63rd, It allowed them to add more and service. This is why you had the 4-5 trains out of 179th. They couldn't do this when both lines went via 53rd and back then the was all R32s while the was all R46s creating dwell times at lex and 53rd. Now with the and being all 60 tech trains, It could be possible with improvements with CBTC but as of right now it's best for them to leave as it is until they can fix the CBTC glitches. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted March 22 Share #447 Posted March 22 9 hours ago, R32 3838 said: It could be possible with improvements with CBTC but as of right now it's best for them to leave as it is until they can fix the CBTC glitches. That shouldn’t be the case when ATO is in full effect right now but anything can still happen. On 3/20/2024 at 9:38 AM, RTOMan said: For those who wish (and i mean wish) for the flip flop not happening because the will be cut back as it is already and just adding more switch movement in the 36th street area just isn't worth the CBTC glitch factor. The more I think about it, the more I realize that I’m having a hard time finding drawbacks with a hypothetical and Swap. The only things that stick out to me are the rise in Operating Costs (considering that the would simply continue on 63rd when the is not running) and the fact that those between Roosevelt and Queens Plaza lose out on a one seat ride to a Court Square transfer and the fact. Either way, the return to full service is a welcoming one (even though the via 53rd was convenient for me personally) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznit1987 Posted March 22 Share #448 Posted March 22 On 3/19/2024 at 10:53 PM, RSMG106 said: It is best for the to run via 63rd Street, and continue running on the local tracks to Forest Hills, and allow for the to be via 53rd Street. This service pattern is popular with riders, and it is sadly being thrown out of the window in favor of how it was prior to the shutdown. Ironically, that's part of the problem right there. Everyone loves the down 53rd st so much so that by the 1990s Lex/53rd was dangerously overcrowded. I want the / swap too, but that might be part of the MTA's calculus. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiznit1987 Posted March 22 Share #449 Posted March 22 On 3/20/2024 at 9:38 AM, RTOMan said: Yes they will be done with 63rd street come April 1st (im sure with a few GOs for punch work a shutdown weekend).. Service patterns will go back to how it was before 63rd, 53rd... For those who wish (and i mean wish) for the flip flop not happening because the will be cut back as it is already and just adding more switch movement in the 36th street area just isn't worth the CBTC glitch factor. It Glitches out often in that area. Weekend late night late evening service however might be different (ill really find out once i see that supplement).. service local a bit more so no more Full time express service in Queens. I can't see them letting the go local late nights. People already have ridiculous bus rides just to get to Jamaica to make everything local would set everyone off. CBTC work is one thing but I don't see the MTA being let off the hook for that one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted March 23 Share #450 Posted March 23 the CBTC project is going to be going on for a while, so they're writing it into the work program. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.