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R44 Early Retirement?

ctrain

By ctrain,
in New York City Subway

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w8Hou

w8Hou

Posted
Posted
Exactly, I think I have said it before on this thread but I'm a daily (A) train rider. There is little to none psychology involved. I bet money if you just take some random passenger and told them to ride both the R44 and R46s to see which has the best ride quality, they will pick the latter. Now I'm not saying every car in the fleet has problems but the cars I have ridden in have some weird shaking to it.

 

Most of the random passengers wouldn't know the difference between the R44 and R46 cars because they "look" the same.

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Grand Concourse

Grand Concourse

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Posted
Lets be honest everyone, you're all just hoping to delay the demise of the RFW. You couldn't care less about the structural integrity of the car. Don't tell me otherwise.

 

It's a moot point. If the V is extended, R46s are going to go to the A as the M will no longer need the R160s it uses to go to Bay Pkwy. For the record I feel the worst cars should go regardless of the type. If there are isolated R44s with problems, they can always mix and match cars to make new sets.

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SubwayGuy

SubwayGuy

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Lets be honest everyone, you're all just hoping to delay the demise of the RFW. You couldn't care less about the structural integrity of the car. Don't tell me otherwise.

 

LOL most of them couldn't care less about the structural integrity, or they have no idea, they just want to sound like they know what they are talking about. I bet if you gave them blindfolds and earplugs, put them on a car and asked them to guess the fleet, and put 'em on anything pre-NTT, they'd probably get most if not all of them wrong. Because there are few noticeable differences, no matter how many railfans will create to sound "sophisticated"

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dmouse

dmouse

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the difference between the r44 and the r46 is the r44 all have duct tape on the floor and rust on the body...............:)

 

I Know right!

 

 

some of the R44s I have ridden are literally have parts of the floor held together with Duck Tape.

 

Like The Penguins say; " Its gonna take some Spit, Grit, AND a lot of duck tape"

 

^thats what's keeping the cars together lol:cool:

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BroadwayBuffer

BroadwayBuffer

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Posted
And you would know the psychology of everyone here how?

 

You're missing the point. All these folks are pretending to be experts on how these cars function with a huge bias in favor of 60 ft cars and against R-44s and NTTs. So maybe it isn't just the RFW, but regardless, it's because they just want the 60 ft cars to be around longer and know very little if anything about them versus the R-44s anyhow. So maybe they are in worse condition, I don't know that because I have no way of telling .. but nor do they, yet it seems plenty of you are buying their pseudo knowledge.

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Far Rock Depot Conductor

Far Rock Depot

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Most of the random passengers wouldn't know the difference between the R44 and R46 cars because they "look" the same.

 

This is SO true!

 

LOL most of them couldn't care less about the structural integrity, or they have no idea, they just want to sound like they know what they are talking about. I bet if you gave them blindfolds and earplugs, put them on a car and asked them to guess the fleet, and put 'em on anything pre-NTT, they'd probably get most if not all of them wrong. Because there are few noticeable differences, no matter how many railfans will create to sound "sophisticated"

 

You are the MAN! Ive taken Engineering and design from high school thru college to get into a career of designing railcars. Hell, i use to "hang out" in New Car Engineering when i was an intern. These kids (and most of them are just that-kids) have no clue what they are talking about.

 

the difference between the r44 and the r46 is the r44 all have duct tape on the floor and rust on the body...............:)

HA HA!!!

Being a CONSISTENT (A) rider from the Rockaways to W4st and above for the last 20 years, I STILL find it hard to tell the difference in ride quality between the 44s and 46s! hell, until i sit down either at a window seat or next to the doors, i usually dont notice what kind im on! And im a railfan! People, when discussing what cars should retire or not, think about a few things:

 

Whats motivating you do choose what you are choosing? condition of the cars? Average distance traveled between breakdowns? or is it RFWs? A personal connection between those cars? A recall a certain someone who DIDNT beef and cry when the slants were retired. it was their time. ANd that person knew this too. Props to him on that.

 

Maintinence costs. Is it worth it? Cost effective? will SMS/GOH squeeze more life out of these cars? Its more cost effective to SMS the SIR fleet of 44s than the Main Lines fleet.

 

and the most important thing to remember:

You do not have any control of what stays and goes! None of us do. Not even the T/Os here. and they tell us this everyday! im shocked they are still here. They give us inside info and heads up on things we like to follow. They dont have to. My hats off to them.

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m7zanr160s

m7zanr160s

Posted
Posted
You're missing the point. All these folks are pretending to be experts on how these cars function with a huge bias in favor of 60 ft cars and against R-44s and NTTs. So maybe it isn't just the RFW, but regardless, it's because they just want the 60 ft cars to be around longer and know very little if anything about them versus the R-44s anyhow. So maybe they are in worse condition, I don't know that because I have no way of telling .. but nor do they, yet it seems plenty of you are buying their pseudo knowledge.

 

Regardless of what anyone says, I can tell the difference between ride quality between rail cars, just like cars. From, "Wow, this feels really smooth and nice...(R160)," or, "Cool, bouncy, LIRR feeling to this one" (R46), to, "Whoa, will it finish it's trip, after I get off?" (R44). Yeah, people pointed it out, so I said let me see. Even before this R44 thing came up I didn't like 44's because they were always dark and/or smelly, and/or uncomfortably hot every time I rode one. No car hating here.

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LRG

LRG

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Posted
and the most important thing to remember:

You do not have any control of what stays and goes! None of us do. Not even the T/Os here. and they tell us this everyday! im shocked they are still here. They give us inside info and heads up on things we like to follow. They dont have to. My hats off to them.

 

Thank you!!! If the time of retirement comes for a train, people need to let the damn train retire and move on with their lives. The way I see it, it seems as if some people are going to have a meltdown because their favorite car class won't be around as long as they'd like em to be. Everyone should just get over themselves already. Lets all wait and see what will be the outcome of all this....

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LRG

LRG

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Posted
Oh to point out another thing these train being retired are being saved for the museum and will possibly be used on future fantrips. Just a thought. If the R44s do retire how are they going to save something that's coupled in 4 car sets?

 

I think they'd most likely save an A-A pair from Staten Island.

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SubwayGuy

SubwayGuy

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Posted
You are the MAN! Ive taken Engineering and design from high school thru college to get into a career of designing railcars. Hell, i use to "hang out" in New Car Engineering when i was an intern. These kids (and most of them are just that-kids) have no clue what they are talking about.

 

I'm always glad when others here see the big picture. The amount of misinformation in here is so misleading that finding facts is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Subway car design and technology is not nearly as easy as many railfans think it is, and their understanding of parts, structure, what is safe and unsafe. NYC used subway cars with technology more than 90 years old (many preserved) that if explained in detail would blow the minds of even some of the most technically inclined here. Many of the cars in service today use more complex parts but many are based off the same ancient technologies and are tried and true. There are literally thousands components on subway cars and each and every one has an important role to play in the car, and two things may even be in the same "area" but if one thing goes bad, one problem result, if the other goes bad, another will result. It's very complicated, and for those interested in learning about it, you should do so over time, and you should not learn from other railfans because 95% of what you are told will be wrong, oversimplified, or both.

 

But let's just take a step back. A car that is being surveyed because of structural body condition now feels "unsafe" to a lot of railfans because the ride is "bumpy, not smooth, rough" etc.? Just from common sense, wouldn't a bumpy ride come from poor suspension, flat wheels or track conditions instead? Structural condition has hardly any impact on ride quality. Saying that it has an impact is every bit as ludicrous as claiming that a broken FIND caused the brakes on an R160 to take too long to stop the train.

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INDman Train Operator

INDman

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Posted
If it comes down to an R44 or an R46, would the museum keep both or just one of them? There's only so much room left. And then for the R62- will they keep one of each [R62/a] or just one over the other and just one car or a 5-car set?

 

Lets say that the R44s are retired from service due too structural problems, just pretend for a second. I doubt that the museum would want anything to due with the R44s.

 

 

For the record, no decision has been made as to what will happen to the R44s so this is all speculation.

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SubwayGuy

SubwayGuy

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Posted
If it comes down to an R44 or an R46, would the museum keep both or just one of them? There's only so much room left. And then for the R62- will they keep one of each [R62/a] or just one over the other and just one car or a 5-car set?

 

Those are questions that will be answered when a final decision is made on what to do with the cars.

 

For the R-62/A that's a long way off and the people who will make that decision then likely are not the same people in the position to make that decision now.

 

As for the current issue at hand with the R44's and the results of the survey, as mentioned just sit tight, information will be released when the timing is right and plenty of time to react. Once a decision comes down, then the Transit Museum can React (or not react) accordingly.

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BroadwayBuffer

BroadwayBuffer

Posted
Posted
But let's just take a step back. A car that is being surveyed because of structural body condition now feels "unsafe" to a lot of railfans because the ride is "bumpy, not smooth, rough" etc.? Just from common sense, wouldn't a bumpy ride come from poor suspension, flat wheels or track conditions instead? Structural condition has hardly any impact on ride quality. Saying that it has an impact is every bit as ludicrous as claiming that a broken FIND caused the brakes on an R160 to take too long to stop the train.

 

But I thought the rust on the R-42 roofs was what caused the screechy stops?? :)

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