The Express Bus: A Vital Service or an Unnecessary Luxury?

[Forest Glen]

Bronx ideas:

1. eliminate MOST Sunday service

2. Cut the BxM7B, use other forms of transport (like Bx29 to or BxM7)

3. Cut the BxM9, once again, use the Bx8, Bx40, or Bx42 buses to the or BxM7)

4. Cut the BxM18.

 

These are not express bus, but:

1. Make the Bx42 a limited-stop-ONLY between Morris Heights MetroNorth and Randall Avenue/E Tremont Avenue. Use the Bx40 for local service. Headways are obviously changed.

2. Cut the Bx2, make all Bx1 local buses go via the Bx2 current route, terminating at both current Bx2 terminals. The Bx1 limited makes all stops south of 149 Street and west of Ft. Independence/Sedgwick.

In a nutshell:

Bx2 limited eliminated.

Bx2 locals renamed Bx1 local.

Bx1 limited runs local wherever there is no local service.

 

1) Yes, with the exception of the BxM7

2) I'm on the fence about this one

3) No. In fact, the BxM9 is one of the busier Bronx express bus routes.

4) Yes; send a few BxM1's to lower Manhattan

[R32 3348]

I agree with the Bx1 and Bx2 merging but I think that the Bx2 portion in the Hub should become a new branch of the Bx1. I think it's ridiculous that there's 2 bus routes spanning the entire length of Grand Concourse when there is a full-time and a part-time subway line directly underneath. This, coupled with improving the state of some of the stations underground would get more people to ride the subway.

 

IMO, the BxM9 shouldn't be cut outright. It serves a rather isolated portion in the Bronx. If I had to cut it (I never really looked at this route as one that should be cut), I would cut weekend service first, and keep it at least for rush hours and other times when there is enough ridership.

 

I don't think the BxM2 should exist at all - it makes the same stops as the BxM1 on the East Side and follows the train routing on the West Side.

 

The BxM4A should be cut entirely (the ( are RIGHT there, and it copies routing) and the BxM4B should also have its hours reduced (rush-hour only, unless there is ridership during middays). With the BxM4A gone it could be renamed the BxM4 and have 60 minute headways during middays, if midday service is warranted.

 

The BxM6 almost exactly mirrors the line plus it makes 3 stops all very close to Parkchester station on the . IMO it should be cut entirely.

 

As I've said before, I think the BxM11 should be rush hour only.

[NX Express]

1) Yes, with the exception of the BxM7

2) I'm on the fence about this one

3) No. In fact, the BxM9 is one of the busier Bronx express bus routes.

4) Yes; send a few BxM1's to lower Manhattan

 

Well, I guess the BxM9 idea doesn't work. Anything to say about the locals?

[Forest Glen]

The BxM6 almost exactly mirrors the line plus it makes 3 stops all very close to Parkchester station on the . IMO it should be cut entirely

 

My aunt who lives in Parkchester uses the BxM6. She used to use the train but at her age she can't handle the stress and overcrowding. How about the BxM6 combine with the BxM10?

[Amtrak7]

Here are the ridership numbers copied from the MTA book:

 

Weekday:

 

BxM1: 1803 passengers, 102 trips, 18 passengers/trip

BxM2: 893 passengers, 81 trips, 11 passengers/trip

BxM3: 889 passengers, 74 trips, 12 passengers/trip

BxM4: 572 passengers, 72 trips, 8 passengers/trip

BxM4A Branch only: 49 passengers, 37 trips, 1 passenger/trip

BxM6: 698 passengers, 50 trips, 14 passengers/trip

BxM7 (Co-Op): 3316 passengers, 140 trips, 24 passengers/trip

BxM7A: 1887 passengers, 99 trips, 19 passengers/trip

BxM7B: 71 passengers, 4 trips, 18 passengers/trip

BxM9: 2312 passengers, 102 trips, 23 passengers/trip

BxM10: 1854 passengers, 97 trips, 19 passengers/trip

BxM11: 1307 passengers, 92 trips, 14 passengers/trip

BxM18: 265 passengers, 14 trips, 19 passengers/trip

 

Saturday:

 

BxM1: 733 passengers, 58 trips, 13 passengers/trip

BxM2: 596 passengers, 59 trips, 10 passengers/trip

BxM3: 312 passengers, 35 trips, 9 passengers/trip

BxM4: 139 passengers, 34 trips, 4 passengers/trip

BxM4A Branch only: 28 passengers, 18 trips, 2 passenger/trip

BxM6: 358 passengers, 34 trips, 11 passengers/trip

BxM7 (Co-Op): 1785 passengers, 101 trips, 18 passengers/trip

BxM7A: 612 passengers, 50 trips, 12 passengers/trip

BxM9: 766 passengers, 51 trips, 15 passengers/trip

BxM10: 832 passengers, 53 trips, 16 passengers/trip

BxM11: 658 passengers, 61 trips, 11 passengers/trip

 

Sunday:

 

BxM1: 486 passengers, 30 trips, 16 passengers/trip

BxM2: 398 passengers, 31 trips, 13 passengers/trip

BxM3: 207 passengers, 29 trips, 7 passengers/trip

BxM4: 140 passengers, 28 trips, 5 passengers/trip

BxM4A Branch only: 9 passengers, 14 trips, <1 passenger/trip

BxM6: 251 passengers, 30 trips, 8 passengers/trip

BxM7 (Co-Op): 1191 passengers, 58 trips, 21 passengers/trip

BxM7A: 354 passengers, 30 trips, 12 passengers/trip

BxM9: 480 passengers, 41 trips, 12 passengers/trip

BxM10: 503 passengers, 34 trips, 15 passengers/trip

BxM11: 334 passengers, 30 trips, 11 passengers/trip

 

Some of these per-trip numbers are horrendously low!!! These are the changes I propose:

 

Hourly service off-peak all routes except BxM7

BxM4A/B, BxM6, BxM3 cut weekend/off-peak service

Combine BxM7 and BxM7A, except a few BxM7 rush hour trips

[B35 via Church]

Bronx ideas:

1. eliminate MOST Sunday service

2. Cut the BxM7B, use other forms of transport (like Bx29 to or BxM7)

3. Cut the BxM9, once again, use the Bx8, Bx40, or Bx42 buses to the or BxM7)

4. Cut the BxM18.

 

These are not express bus, but:

1. Make the Bx42 a limited-stop-ONLY between Morris Heights MetroNorth and Randall Avenue/E Tremont Avenue. Use the Bx40 for local service. Headways are obviously changed.

2. Cut the Bx2, make all Bx1 local buses go via the Bx2 current route, terminating at both current Bx2 terminals. The Bx1 limited makes all stops south of 149 Street and west of Ft. Independence/Sedgwick.

In a nutshell:

Bx2 limited eliminated.

Bx2 locals renamed Bx1 local.

Bx1 limited runs local wherever there is no local service.

 

1) outside of staten island, I sincerely think w/e other sunday express bus service should be discontinued....

2) Totally agree.

 

IMO, the Bx29 should be the ONLY form of public transportation that should exist there.... they want express bus service, let them take the bx29 to the BxM7a... that's a 15 min. ride to PBP @ the most...

3) have to disagree with this... if anything, bxm9 service should be expanded before it should get cut... hell, throgs neck have a pair of of the most erratic routes in the borough (40/42), and one of the most unreliable (8)....

4) yeah, I would get rid of the bxm18 notation, and combine SOME of those runs into the bxm1, 2, or divide them equally b/w the two... the demand for bronx exp. bus service to lower manhattan has always been poor...

 

even bee line cut bxm4c's back to 23rd full time...

 

 

 

 

those local ideas...

1) I don't know if LTD service is warranted along tremont, so I cant say...

2) I agree with your intention, but disagree slightly w/ your actual idea....

 

If you're gonna attempt to combine the two routes, the route should run from 231st/riverdale to 3rd/138th... via GC of course, via the current bx2 routing south of GC/149th...

 

over there on sedgwick/ft independence is a terrible terminal.... current bx1 gets good usage in the kingsbridge area.... whereas, ppl. that take the bx2 NB generally don't take it past tracey towers... (fyi, that's around the mosholu pkwy. station on the if you're looking at the bus map, and don't where where tracey towers is)

[Shortline Bus]

I agree with the Bx1 and Bx2 merging but I think that the Bx2 portion in the Hub should become a new branch of the Bx1. I think it's ridiculous that there's 2 bus routes spanning the entire length of Grand Concourse when there is a full-time and a part-time subway line directly underneath. This, coupled with improving the state of some of the stations underground would get more people to ride the subway.

 

IMO, the BxM9 shouldn't be cut outright. It serves a rather isolated portion in the Bronx. If I had to cut it (I never really looked at this route as one that should be cut), I would cut weekend service first, and keep it at least for rush hours and other times when there is enough ridership.

 

My repiles in red and R32 3348 have you been on any of these Bronx routes. I have.

 

Agreed. Just run hourly at all time the BXM9 runs except for rush hours. Also last Sunday/Holiday service should be at 9pm.

 

I don't think the BxM2 should exist at all - it makes the same stops as the BxM1 on the East Side and follows the train routing on the West Side.

 

Actually based on the data Amtrak provided, there enough ridership to run this route peak direction weekdays only. To Midtown BXM2 weekdays 530am-12 Noon and To Riverdale weekdays 1230pm-10pm.

R32 3348 you forgot riders along Riverdale Ave/SPUYTEN DUYVIL can also use the BX7 to 168th and transfer to/from the M2 limited, M3, M4 and M5 to get to Midtown as well.

 

 

The BxM4A should be cut entirely (the ( are RIGHT there, and it copies routing) and the BxM4B should also have its hours reduced (rush-hour only, unless there is ridership during middays). With the BxM4A gone it could be renamed the BxM4 and have 60 minute headways during middays, if midday service is warranted.

 

Or to keep the NIMBY's happy on losing BXM4B Bedford Park service run it rush hours only/peak direction. Riders in Woodlawn East/Kanotnah Ave does have a long way to get to Midtown so just run the BXM4 on all trips to McClean/Kantonah with hourly headways Monday-Saturdays.

 

Sundays use the nearby BXM4c on Central/McClean or MNRR Harlem line at Mt Vernon West or Woodlawn stations.

 

The BxM6 almost exactly mirrors the line plus it makes 3 stops all very close to Parkchester station on the . IMO it should be cut entirely.

 

Agreed. Just have the BXm10 make an additional stop at the Oval and Unionport..

 

As I've said before, I think the BxM11 should be rush hour only.

 

Disagree. I railfanned this BXm11 route on a Saturday evening leaving Madison/40th St at around 6pm back in September '09 and the bus had about 35-40 riders on board. However most of the riders got off either at Pelham Pwy/WP Road or Gun Hill Road.

Only Sunday service on BXM11 should be cut since WP Road riders can also use the nearby MNRR Harlem line or the right there.

[checkmatechamp13]

You don't need the X24 on Hylan Blvd. There are a plethora of express bus routes that use Hylan. In fact, the X24 is at a disadvantage because it stops on the opposite side of the other peak direction express bus routes so riders heading to midtown have to choose betweent the X24 and X5.

 

That's what I was saying. I was explaining why the X24 doesn't get that many riders on Hylan Boulevard-too many competing services taking a more direct route. Maybe the X24 can end at the turnaround at Hylan/Richmond.

[cotb16]

Bronx ideas:

1. eliminate MOST Sunday service

2. Cut the BxM7B, use other forms of transport (like Bx29 to or BxM7)

3. Cut the BxM9, once again, use the Bx8, Bx40, or Bx42 buses to the or BxM7)

4. Cut the BxM18.

 

These are not express bus, but:

1. Make the Bx42 a limited-stop-ONLY between Morris Heights MetroNorth and Randall Avenue/E Tremont Avenue. Use the Bx40 for local service. Headways are obviously changed.

2. Cut the Bx2, make all Bx1 local buses go via the Bx2 current route, terminating at both current Bx2 terminals. The Bx1 limited makes all stops south of 149 Street and west of Ft. Independence/Sedgwick.

In a nutshell:

Bx2 limited eliminated.

Bx2 locals renamed Bx1 local.

Bx1 limited runs local wherever there is no local service.

 

From what I heard, the BxM9 is pretty busy, since it serves Throggs Neck. It would not do good if that route gets cut. I've also heard from some local politicians that it would be best for some BxM9's to head to Lower Manhattan since some Country Club residents have jobs down by Wall Street.

[Amtrak7]

Sundays use the nearby BXM4c on Central/McClean or MNRR Harlem line at Mt Vernon West or Woodlawn stations.

 

BxM4C does not provide local service in NYC.

[Shortline Bus]

BxM4C does not provide local service in NYC.

 

 

No Amtrak. I meant that if BXM4 riders boarding at the first/last stop(terminal)at Kantonah/Mclean it's only about 1/2 mile from the BXM4c at Central. I know the BXM4c makes no local stops in Bronx/Manhattan.

[checkmatechamp13]

I agree with the Bx1 and Bx2 merging but I think that the Bx2 portion in the Hub should become a new branch of the Bx1. I think it's ridiculous that there's 2 bus routes spanning the entire length of Grand Concourse when there is a full-time and a part-time subway line directly underneath. This, coupled with improving the state of some of the stations underground would get more people to ride the subway.

 

IMO, the BxM9 shouldn't be cut outright. It serves a rather isolated portion in the Bronx. If I had to cut it (I never really looked at this route as one that should be cut), I would cut weekend service first, and keep it at least for rush hours and other times when there is enough ridership.

 

I don't think the BxM2 should exist at all - it makes the same stops as the BxM1 on the East Side and follows the train routing on the West Side.

 

The BxM4A should be cut entirely (the ( are RIGHT there, and it copies routing) and the BxM4B should also have its hours reduced (rush-hour only, unless there is ridership during middays). With the BxM4A gone it could be renamed the BxM4 and have 60 minute headways during middays, if midday service is warranted.

 

The BxM6 almost exactly mirrors the line plus it makes 3 stops all very close to Parkchester station on the . IMO it should be cut entirely.

 

As I've said before, I think the BxM11 should be rush hour only.

 

I agree about the Bx1 and 2. About the BxM6 (I think somebody just mentioned it), since the BxM10 has its last stop in the Bronx near the E180th Street station, I think that it could be rerouteed down White Plains Road to the current BxM6 stops. With 3 stops before it goes express, the bus can't be too crowded.

[B35 via Church]

^^ then you would bypass the apartment complex IN parkchester entirely....

 

if you're gonna do that, then you're better off just cutting the Bxm6 outright...

------------------------------------

 

 

anyway, majority of bxm10 ridership is along eastchester (rd)....

 

parkchester service (bxm6) is more warranted than that of the bxm10 along morris park...

 

so just have bxm10's serve parkchester (along met. av), run it non-stop along e tremont for that brief stint, and have it continue up eastchester, to boston rd....

 

that to me, makes more sense than diverting current bxm10's to parkchester, while still serving morris park av & eastchester rd... if we're talking about cutting costs, that is.... the suggestion I'm making, would still be a rush hr. only route....

[B35 via Church]

Disagree. I railfanned this BXm11 route on a Saturday evening leaving Madison/40th St at around 6pm back in September '09 and the bus had about 35-40 riders on board. However most of the riders got off either at Pelham Pwy/WP Road or Gun Hill Road.

Only Sunday service on BXM11 should be cut since WP Road riders can also use the nearby MNRR Harlem line or the right there.

that's common w/ outbound bxm11's btw... that's b/c those riders just wanted to get in/to the bronx, so they took the first bus that arrived along madison av... do tend to see ppl. moving from stop to stop along madison b/w 23rd & 26th....

 

the more I think about it, the more I feel MOST express buses in the boroughs should run during rush hrs. only....

 

 

That's what I was saying. I was explaining why the X24 doesn't get that many riders on Hylan Boulevard-too many competing services taking a more direct route. Maybe the X24 can end at the turnaround at Hylan/Richmond.

 

That could work also, assuming if the MTA takes over the x24...

 

 

I've also heard from some local politicians that it would be best for some BxM9's to head to Lower Manhattan since some Country Club residents have jobs down by Wall Street.

 

I heard something similar to that also; was a couple yrs. ago though.... funny how some country club residents would rather take that walk to the bxm9 over on layton, rather than take the bx14, which runs in their own neighborhood, to the bxm7a....

[checkmatechamp13]

^^ then you would bypass the apartment complex IN parkchester entirely....

 

if you're gonna do that, then you're better off just cutting the Bxm6 outright...

------------------------------------

 

 

anyway, majority of bxm10 ridership is along eastchester (rd)....

 

parkchester service (bxm6) is more warranted than that of the bxm10 along morris park...

 

so just have bxm10's serve parkchester (along met. av), run it non-stop along e tremont for that brief stint, and have it continue up eastchester, to boston rd....

 

that to me, makes more sense than diverting current bxm10's to parkchester, while still serving morris park av & eastchester rd... if we're talking about cutting costs, that is.... the suggestion I'm making, would still be a rush hr. only route....

 

I don't see what you are saying. According to the 2 schedules, the only stop that the BxM10 would miss would be Morris Park Avenue/East 180th Street. To Manhattan, buses would make a left onto White Plains Road, merge onto Unionport Road, and follow the current BxM6 routing. To the Bronx, the routing would be reversed. Or is the direction of the streets what makes this hard?

Your idea of running the BxM10s along Tremont Avenue is pretty good, if, as you say there is low ridership along Morris Park Avenue.

The problem with the two routes is that the BxM6 makes 3 stops, which means that it is going all the way into Manhattan with 3 stops worth of people. If it could be combined with another route that would make it more cost-effective.

[Shortline Bus]

Ok. question for B35. Since he agrees w/ the on making almost all express bus routes weekdays only, which he feels should run 'extra' service such as weekday evenings till Midnight, Saturdays and Sundays?

 

Here the express routes that should run on weekends imo. The X-1 and BXM7 have 30 minute headways. All other routes unless otherwise noted have 1-hour headways.

SaturdayBXM1, BXM3, BXM7/BXM7a(merged weekends only)BXM9, BXM10 and BXM11.

QM1, QM16(Rockaways should have an express bus running at least Saturdays as well)BM1, BM2, BM3, X27, X28, X1, X10 and X17. Note every 90 minutes headways Saturdays for the BM1, BM2 and BM3 like prior to the (MTA)takeover.

 

Sundays

BXM1(starts at Getty Sq. Yonkers Sundays only), BM3(every 90 minutes Sundays), BXM7/BXM7a, BM9, BXM10, QM1, X1, and X10.

 

reactions?:confused:

[NX Express]

Ok. question for B35. Since he agrees w/ the on making almost all express bus routes weekdays only, which he feels should run 'extra' service such as weekday evenings till Midnight, Saturdays and Sundays?

 

Here the express routes that should run on weekends imo.

 

SaturdayBXM1, BXM3, BXM7/BXM7a(merged weekends only)BXM9, BXM10 and BXM11.

QM1, QM16(Rockaways should have an express bus running at least Saturdays as well)BM1, BM2, BM3, X27, X28, X1, X10 and X17.

 

Sundays

BXM1, BXM7/BXM7a, BM9, BXM10, QM1, X1, and X10.

 

reactions?:confused:

Only the BxM7 and the X1 and X10 will have 45 minute frequency, the others will be 90 minutes headways.

[Shortline Bus]

Only the BxM7 and the X1 and X10 will have 45 minute frequency, the others will be 90 minutes headways.

 

 

 

At least for Saturdays sorry NX i disagree with your X1, X17 and BXM10 ideas. On Saturdays the X1 can be SRO especially if it late. So Saturdays imo until 10pm the X1 X10 and BXM7 should still have 30-minute headways.

 

All other weekend express bus i agree NX should have 60-90 minutes headways at all times.

[NX Express]

At least for Saturdays sorry i disagree with your X1, X17 and BXM10 ideas. On Saturdays the X1 can be SRO especially if it late. So Saturdays imo until 10pm the X1 X10 and BXM7 should still have 30-minute headways.

 

All other weekend express bus i agree should have 60-90 minutes headways at all times.

 

Agreed- so here's how it is:

 

X1, BxM7-30 minute headways

X10- 40 minute headways

All other routes-75 minute headways

[Shortline Bus]

Agreed- so here's how it is:

 

X1, BxM7-30 minute headways

X10- 40 minute headways

All other routes-75 minute headways

 

Nx sorry to nit pick but even express buses that travel from remote interboros areas-Midtown and get stuck in traffic takes no more than 90 minutes.

 

Plus most express buses even the ones on Staten Island take no more than 90 minutes total to get from point a-point b. 75 minutes is not an accurte headway for the travel time so that why depending on ridership/travel time i suggested other than the X1, X10 and BXM7 should be either 60 or 90 minutes headways at all times weekends.

 

The X1 X10 and BXM7 would run every 30 minutes most of day weekends and then every hour late evening from 10pm-last bus leaving midtown.

[NX Express]

Okay...

 

X1 and Bxm7- 30 minute headways

X10-40 minute headways

Others- 100 minute headways (ten-minute layover)

[B35 via Church]

I don't see what you are saying. According to the 2 schedules, the only stop that the BxM10 would miss would be Morris Park Avenue/East 180th Street. To Manhattan, buses would make a left onto White Plains Road, merge onto Unionport Road, and follow the current BxM6 routing. To the Bronx, the routing would be reversed. Or is the direction of the streets what makes this hard?

 

you said nothing about unionport rd in your prior post....

that's why, to me, this:

 

I think that it could be rerouted down White Plains Road to the current BxM6 stops.

 

...was misleading.

 

the way it was construed (to me), it seemed as if you would have buses (bxm10's) turn off morris park, down white plains road, down to the cross bx. service road, where it would then pick up the bxm6 route, en-route to manhattan... which would have made no sense at all, if the purpose were to combine the two routes (bxm6 & bxm10), since that would have totally avoided the apt. complexes in parkchester..... that's what I was getting at...

 

but since (^^ that) wasn't what you were conveying...

now that that confusion is cleared up...

 

 

Ok. question for B35. Since he agrees w/ the on making almost all express bus routes weekdays only, which he feels should run 'extra' service such as weekday evenings till Midnight, Saturdays and Sundays?

 

Here the express routes that should run on weekends imo. The X-1 and BXM7 have 30 minute headways. All other routes unless otherwise noted have 1-hour headways.

Saturday: BXM1, BXM3, BXM7/BXM7a (merged weekends only) BXM9, BXM10 and BXM11.

QM1, QM16 (Rockaways should have an express bus running at least Saturdays as well) BM1, BM2, BM3, X27, X28, X1, X10 and X17. Note every 90 minutes headways Saturdays for the BM1, BM2 and BM3 like prior to the takeover.

 

Sundays

BXM1(starts at Getty Sq. Yonkers Sundays only), BM3(every 90 minutes Sundays), BXM7/BXM7a, BM9, BXM10, QM1, X1, and X10.

 

reactions?

 

- outside of the x1 & x10, (still) too much sunday service in your list, I'm sorry...

 

- I would extend qm15's to far rockaway (the 16 would still be weekdays only)... I suppose you could combine bxm7's w/ 7a's (still on the fence about it).... everything else in your saturday list I pretty much agree with

[Shortline Bus]

B35 i disagree with ending all sunday express bus particuarly in Bronx. Often when in Manhattan i see more riders using the BXm7 on sundays then the X10.

 

 

Plus Sedwick Ave is a long way to nearest subway on Jerome Ave. Not to mention B35 you admit Throgs Neck is a long way to the (6)subway line.

I only agree on second thought that Riverdale Ave riders can use the BX7 and transfer at 168th to the M2, M3, M4 and M101 to get to Midtown.

Or BXM1 riders can even use the Metro North Hudson Line at 3 nearby stations.

So in sense i agree on a revision and canning Sunday BXM1 service.

 

Bronx Sunday service with 90 minute headways.

BXM3

BXM7a/BXM7b merged(every hour)

BXM9

BXM10

[BJC]

I've heard from a friend of mine BM-2 going to get Sunday service.I don't know about the other SC route since at the time we were talking about BM 2....I could tell you one thing,they need to cut the BM-2 Saturday night service going towards Manhattan.They don't need BM 2 running around 10 pm when you're just driving a bus full of air.

[Shortline Bus]

I've heard from a friend of mine BM-2 going to get Sunday service.I don't know about the other SC route since at the time we were talking about BM 2....I could tell you one thing,they need to cut the BM-2 Saturday night service going towards Manhattan.They don't need BM 2 running around 10 pm when you're just driving a bus full of air.

 

Agreed 100% BJC. I think the BM2 and also the BM1 and BM3 on Saturday evenings Manhattan bound runs until i think as late as 9-10pm. The last Midtown bound BM1 BM2 and BM3 should leave Brooklyn at 6pm at latest imo. While the last Saturday BM1 BM2 and BM3 should leave Midtown at around 11pm.

And just deadhead the rest of those Spring Creek buses Manhattan Bound.