The New M Train

[LRG]

I don't understand what you mean.

 

Me neither! Lol

 

WHY are you pissed at this? You act like to do this, the MTA is digging their hands in your wallet.

 

You don't get it....

 

Did it really matter what the hell the designation was?? Answer my question....

[Zman]

Realistically, RidgewoodIan's idea is a waste of resources and money just to save a letter. Confusion and delays will definitely occur that first week on Queens Blvd; but hey, he's got his so let's just be happy with it and move along.

[Bill from Maspeth]

Although this is technically a service cut, at least BMT East riders finally have a one seat ride to Midtown (though this precludes Culver express service since the won't be going to Brooklyn).

If you started your trip on the J/Z, you do not have a one seat ride to midtown, you still have to change trains, and there are more F's than M's so they'll still be better off doing the same transfer routine at Essex/Delancey as they've always done.

[Bill from Maspeth]

So it was YOU who came up with the bright idea of having the designation transformed...brilliant, bust brilliant. If the was kept the MTA would only have to cover up the (M2) signs at some stations...now, because of YOU, the MTA now has to cover ALL of the (M2) signs as well as the signs.

 

So now the MTA has to shell out money to cover EVERY SINGLE (M2) and sign because of an absurd suggestion you made. Give yourself a pat on the back. That's more money they have to shell out...something they DON'T have. Did you forget that?

 

 

IAWTP

[Far Rock Depot]

But it's still the same, new, dumb service plan regardless if it's called M or V.

 

Don't you think the current V Queens Blvd. riders are going to complain "If it's the same route and stations, why did you have to change the letter designation to confuse us"?

 

You're drinking MTA's Kool Aid. Since the line stays named the M, there will be countless riders leaving Essex, bound for stations in Lower Manhattan, who will wind up at B'way Lafayette, no matter how many announcements are made, despite signage.

 

 

Given that this is a service cut, it benefit is that it combines the most used parts of these 2 routes. My main beef is with the desicion of using . As Bill from Maspeth mentioned above, the biggest problem i also see is whats gonna happen that first monday of the new service. Everyone who boards the will get on as if nothing happened. when they get to Bway-Lafayette, this is whene the anger will begin. If they kept the , they will atleast noticed the route change when they see a or atleast hear its V train announcement. People along QB and 6th ave are gonna see the and go "WTF is this???" I really do beleive deep down (M2) riders in ridgewood argued for keeping the as it currently is and the just played them and said "heres the . Happy? your still screwed either way. its a CUT!!!"

those V signs (especially on roll signs) have been around for years! And they were finally used in 2001. and the 160s were programed with the to metro already. now its change everything! the MTA had this cut planned with a simple motto: K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

They just made this cut a little more confusing. And in my opinion, unessessary.

[rr4567]

You don't get it....

 

Did it really matter what the hell the designation was?? Answer my question....

 

I will admit. NO. it does NOT matter. (but they had to replace signs anyways )

But I do understand why he gave that idea. That was also my problem with this change....them not keeping the letter M

[LRG]

If you started your trip on the J/Z, you do not have a one seat ride to midtown, you still have to change trains, and there are more F's than M's so they'll still be better off doing the same transfer routine at Essex/Delancey as they've always done.

 

Correct.

 

IAWTP

 

Thank you.

 

Given that this is a service cut, it benefit is that it combines the most used parts of these 2 routes. My main beef is with the desicion of using . As Bill from Maspeth mentioned above, the biggest problem i also see is whats gonna happen that first monday of the new service. Everyone who boards the will get on as if nothing happened. when they get to Bway-Lafayette, this is whene the anger will begin. If they kept the , they will atleast noticed the route change when they see a or atleast hear its V train announcement. People along QB and 6th ave are gonna see the and go "WTF is this???" I really do beleive deep down (M2) riders in ridgewood argued for keeping the as it currently is and the just played them and said "heres the . Happy? your still screwed either way. its a CUT!!!"

those V signs (especially on roll signs) have been around for years! And they were finally used in 2001. and the 160s were programed with the to metro already. now its change everything! the MTA had this cut planned with a simple motto: K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

They just made this cut a little more confusing. And in my opinion, unessessary.

 

Absolutely right.

 

I will admit. NO. it does NOT matter. (but they had to replace signs anyways )

But I do understand why he gave that idea. That was also my problem with this change....them not keeping the letter M

 

Far Rock's explanation sums it all up. The is a line that the MTA could do anything with...always has been since it was on the rollsigns after the R10-R44 fleet (with some exceptions) were rehabbed. They just never used it until 2001.

 

The Ridgewooders wanted the (M2) to stay, they have it. Now, it's an , something Queens Boulevard riders will now have to get accustomed to all because of a new designation. Far Rock hit the nail on the head: MTA needs to K.I.S.S. Lol

[m7zanr160s]

The is a lady, my man. One doesn't ride a lady, one makes sweet love to her. And pulls her pigtails only if she's a pain slut. All of which I fully intend to do with the somewhere in the vicinity of Rockefeller Center.

 

LOL What!?

[m7zanr160s]

Why are you getting pissed off at him? I'm glad they kept the letter M

 

looks better than

 

You do have a point there.

[rr4567]

Far Rock's explanation sums it all up. The is a line that the MTA could do anything with...always has been since it was on the rollsigns after the R10-R44 fleet (with some exceptions) were rehabbed. They just never used it until 2001.

 

The Ridgewooders wanted the (M2) to stay, they have it. Now, it's an , something Queens Boulevard riders will now have to get accustomed to all because of a new designation. Far Rock hit the nail on the head: MTA needs to K.I.S.S. Lol

 

Oh...I didn't know it was on rollsigns before it's introduction......CHANGE IT BACK TO ! JUST DO IT! (so the R32's can run on it!)

 

Now for a serious response:

So this means no old trains with rollsigns can run on it, because it doesn't have . Oh well, but I do still support instead of , but that's just me.

[m7zanr160s]

The fact of the matter is: a letter is a letter...is a letter.

 

What difference would it have made if the designation was kept?

 

I just think that people are going to stay on the thinking it goes where it used to, and end up in midtown Manhattan. If it stayed , (M2) riders would know immediately that there something significantly different about their line now. is going to look the same as (M2) on an R160, until you get inside the car. I'm thinking more than a few people are going to end up in the wrong place during the start of this change. But some uninformed my be pleasantly surprised, ending up in the right place by accident, so...

[LRG]

Oh...I didn't know it was on rollsigns before it's introduction......CHANGE IT BACK TO ! JUST DO IT! (so the R32's can run on it!)

 

Now for a serious response:

So this means no old trains with rollsigns can run on it, because it doesn't have . Oh well, but I do still support instead of , but that's just me.

 

In the case where they may want to slip a 32 or a 42 on the route, the signs would be incorrect. Since Metropolitan Avenue is not on the southern sign readings you'd have to set it to either "Special" or leave it blank. The same goes for the . If they decide to paste the new readings somewhere in the mix of the signs then that'll be a different story. But guess what???

 

All together now....

 

IT COSTS MONEY!!!!!!

[rr4567]

In the case where they may want to slip a 32 or a 42 on the route, the signs would be incorrect. Since Metropolitan Avenue is not on the southern sign readings you'd have to set it to either "Special" or leave it blank. The same goes for the . If they decide to paste the new readings somewhere in the mix of the signs then that'll be a different story. But guess what???

 

All together now....

 

IT COSTS MONEY!!!!!!

 

I KNOW IT COSTS MONEY

 

NOTHING is ever free. They'll have to spend no matter what they do

[Bill from Maspeth]

In the case where they may want to slip a 32 or a 42 on the route, the signs would be incorrect. Since Metropolitan Avenue is not on the southern sign readings you'd have to set it to either "Special" or leave it blank. The same goes for the . If they decide to paste the new readings somewhere in the mix of the signs then that'll be a different story. But guess what???

 

All together now....

 

IT COSTS MONEY!!!!!!

The new M will be somewhat of a showcase line. Because of this, I expect to see R160's exclusively. No R32/42's.

[checkmatechamp13]

Actually, I think an express SAVES money because less train crews are needed (because of shorter run time).

 

The savings of 1-2 minutes really wouldn't make a difference in the number of crews needed. Maybe between the time the express starts to the time that it ends you would have to hire 1 less crew.

I was implying that the express run would save money because there would be less maintainance on the trains. I don't know what the cost savings/costs are of running the express, but I'm sure that they aren't too great.

[Milan]

Before finalizes the (M)/(V) combination it should consider this possibility seriously:combine (M2) and sothe routing will be

Metropolitan-168th st/B'way and consequently extend south of West 4th

to take over duties of south and east oe West 4th.

PRO:

1)no 8 car trains on 6th ave or QB lines.

2)more riders go to upper west side & Harlem than to western Queens from (M2)& stations(the latter can take buses&crosstown ).

3)direct connection from 6th ave line to downtown&Brooklyn fulton(no need to tranfer at Jay st or at W 4th).Better connection for brooklyn IRT riders

at Fulton center to 6th ave line(instead of at B'way-Lafayette or 14th st)

4)If M has to operate on saturday&sunday this option will be less costly.(just extend to Euclid)

 

CON:

Congestion south of W 4th street.

[checkmatechamp13]

That's actually not a bad idea, though I think it is cheaper to extend the (M2)over the because the MTA would save money by having 8 car trains on QB and 6th Avenue (the new ) and on 8th Avenue (the train), as opposed to just on 8th Avenue, which although it was a pro for the riders, it does cost the MTA more money.

Also, the part of the point was to give access to 6th Avenue, where there are more businesses, etc than on 8th Avenue. The purpose wasn't really to get riders to western Queens.

You could actually send this suggestion (though it might be too late, seeing as they already voted) to the MTA by going to: http://www.mta.info/regularmail.htm to send it via regular mail or to http://mta-nyc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/mta_nyc.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php to send it to them via e-mail (Remember to scroll down to ''Public Hearing Comments'' on the ''MTA service'' menu on the page).

[Tinamarie]

Tinamarie--

 

I'm not sure where you get on the but it sounds like your best bet is to transfer to the (J)/(Z) either at Myrtle-Broadway or at Marcy. At both the transfer would be on the same platform; I'm not sure if that's going to be the case at Essex (anyone know?). I know it sucks having to add an extra train to your commute but the switch to the (J)/(Z) shouldn't cost you more than a couple of minutes.

 

A couple of other things you can try: as NX Express suggested, take the to Broadway-Lafayette and transfer to the downtown , then transfer across the platform at Brooklyn Bridge for the . Or, take the to Broadway-Lafayette and transfer to the downtown (. Take that to Atlantic Ave in Brooklyn and transfer to the . I'm not sure which one of these three options would be quickest for you - you'll have to experiment. I wouldn't do the to the - you could do it, sure, but with that transfer it'll take you about three weeks.

 

As for your dad: I pass through Bleecker Street just about every day and they're doing a lot of work. Supposedly the transfer will be finished sometime next year. So, not tomorrow, but not in eighty years, either. Once it's done it should be a fairly easy transfer from the at Broadway-Lafayette. Until then his best bet is to make his way to the downtown platform and exit from it. The uptown is directly across a fairly narrow street - not a hugely difficult unofficial out of system transfer, as these things go.

 

My home stop is Fresh Pond Road. Does anyone know how many stops between Fresh Pond and Bway/Lafayette? The ( idea sounds good as well because the will be going to Brooklyn and I can take the at Atlantic.

 

And I think my dad will just take 3 trains to go to work until he can take the uptown from Bleecker. I know him. He's not going to walk out of the station and walk a street and then go on the uptown . He would rather take 3 trains.

[Ridgewoodian]

With the designation, you'd have the new sticker over the (M2) and signs; it's not the case with the so much.

 

Whatever designation they decided to keep they would have had to make changes to the signs, which would have cost money. Not a LOT of money, I don't think, but more than nothing. So the only question was - what letter to keep. They finally settled on the .

 

The fact of the matter is: a letter is a letter...is a letter.

 

What difference would it have made if the designation was kept?

 

And what difference does it make that they've kept the ?

 

LOL!

 

So you admit that you're trolling now? You want to annoy me? Heh...

 

Yes, I left work early, went all the way out to Flushing, sat around for five hours to speak for three minutes, JUST to annoy YOU, who I've never met. I'm an evil genius that way.

 

Or maybe I just like to say absurd things to point out the absurdity of your position.

 

Continue taking the because it's faster, even if it's only minuscule.

 

Well, that makes no sense at all if it so happens that the isn't going where you want to go.

 

Expect the to be reintroduced come three years from now when the Culver Viaduct project is complete.

 

They might well introduce the designation if they decide to have the express out there. But I doubt that they'll be able to turn the back into the (M2) without serious peasants with pitchforks action. I see this as being a popular service for its ridership.

 

Realistically, RidgewoodIan's idea is a waste of resources and money just to save a letter. Confusion and delays will definitely occur that first week on Queens Blvd; but hey, he's got his so let's just be happy with it and move along.

 

Well, as I've said, they were going to have a change a bunch of signs no matter what they decided to call the service so there was going to be a (small) outlay of money no matter what. As for confusion, I'm sure there will be signs put up in all the affected station, and handouts given out. Yes, there will be a certain number of folks who will be oblivious, who haven't followed the news for the last six months or so, but those are the unreachables. I'm sure whatever confusion this change creates will be resolved within a few days - just like when the has made any other routing change.

 

If you started your trip on the J/Z, you do not have a one seat ride to midtown, you still have to change trains, and there are more F's than M's so they'll still be better off doing the same transfer routine at Essex/Delancey as they've always done.

 

I'm not so sure that (J)/(Z) riders will be better transfering at Essex/Delancey. I presume you've DONE that transfer at rush hour? I long since gave up on it, myself, since I was always having long waits and having to let packed (F)s go through. (J)/(Z) riders will have the opportunity to transfer at Myrtle/Broadway (where they often hold (M2)s, even during rush hour, for transfers), as well as at Marcy, and at Essex. I think one of the benefits of this change is that it will take a lot of pressure off the .

 

I do agree that there will probably need to be more (M)s than (M2)s. The current (M2) rush hour headway of 10 minutes is a joke today, it'll be a tragedy if the becomes very popular. I mentioned this in my testimony to the board - and spent more time doing so than I did begging them to keep the "M" designation.

 

I really do beleive deep down (M2) riders in ridgewood argued for keeping the as it currently is and the just played them and said "heres the . Happy? your still screwed either way. its a CUT!!!"

 

I don't believe that's the truth. I was fully cognizant of the nature of the change when I testified. This was after having attended a meeting of my local Community Board transportation committee where representatives from the were there to explain the change. The committee members were all fully cognizant of the nature of the change, and most of them even supported them, although they mostly wanted to keep the "M" designation.

 

At the hearing I went to - which was the first one they held - I was one of the very few people to mention the (M2)/(V) at all. Dizzy Lizzy Crowley was another. She's my local City Councilwoman, and she had a sentence in her speech denouncing "cutting the ." But she's an idiot. In my testimony I did ask that the "M" designation be kept. But I stressed that that was a minor point, and that headway and (eventual) 24/7 service were much more important issues. I don't know if the issue was addressed at the other public hearings, which I didn't attend. As far as the "Save the (M2)" rally at Broad Street, I didn't attend but my understanding is that it was mostly a "Save the (M2) in SOUTHERN BROOKLYN" rally. Although I could be wrong about that.

 

As for the riders on the Metro-Myrtle corridor being screwed, I don't see it. Riders in Southern Brooklyn, yes, no doubt. But not Metro-Myrtle. The one downside I see is overcrowding, which decreased headways could help fix.

 

 

those V signs (especially on roll signs) have been around for years! And they were finally used in 2001. and the 160s were programed with the to metro already. now its change everything!

 

Well, maybe they can use them someday, if they can figure out a way of cramming another service on the Sixth Ave. line.

 

Before finalizes the (M)/(V) combination it should consider this possibility seriously:combine (M2) and sothe routing will be

Metropolitan-168th st/B'way and consequently extend south of West 4th

to take over duties of south and east oe West 4th.

PRO:

1)no 8 car trains on 6th ave or QB lines.

2)more riders go to upper west side & Harlem than to western Queens from (M2)& stations(the latter can take buses&crosstown ).

3)direct connection from 6th ave line to downtown&Brooklyn fulton(no need to tranfer at Jay st or at W 4th).Better connection for brooklyn IRT riders

at Fulton center to 6th ave line(instead of at B'way-Lafayette or 14th st)

4)If M has to operate on saturday&sunday this option will be less costly.(just extend to Euclid)

 

CON:

Congestion south of W 4th street.

 

Well, my understanding is that kind of thing would lead to huge switching problems at W. 4th, but maybe someone who is more knowledgable in such things could address it.

 

Of course, it's moot for the time being as the service change has already been approved.

[Ridgewoodian]

My home stop is Fresh Pond Road. Does anyone know how many stops between Fresh Pond and Bway/Lafayette? The ( idea sounds good as well because the ( will be going to Brooklyn and I can take the at Atlantic.

 

And I think my dad will just take 3 trains to go to work until he can take the uptown from Bleecker. I know him. He's not going to walk out of the station and walk a street and then go on the uptown . He would rather take 3 trains.

 

My fellow Fresh Ponder! Broadway-Lafayette is the 12th stop from FPR. Your entire trip on the will be the same as it's ever been except that the next stop after Essex won't be Bowery, it'll be Broadway-Lafayette.

[Tinamarie]

Oh ok then thanks! Then maybe I'll do the to the (:P/(D) to the .

[dustclee]

Oh ok then thanks! Then maybe I'll do the to the (:P/(D) to the .

 

Atlantic's a horrible place for transfers - lots of stairs, lots of people, long passageway. Unless you wanna exercise . Also keep in mind the B/D are much less frequent compared to the option you have.

[fishmech]

Neither have I... never actually been on a (M2)... I would have a reason to take the new . Still waiting to take the lol.

 

BTW i know this isnt going to be an issue for sometime, but with being eliminated and the taking its place....when phase 1 of the SAS open's whats going to happen to the then? is it going to split terminals?

 

Since the first phase is just an extension of the and there'll be no other parts of the SAS ready to run on, I imagine they'll label trains on the Phase 1 SAS the from the start!

 

The SAS won't go below the splitoff to the (Q)'s tracks until Phase 3 - which was originalyl going to be when the service was to be introduced, but if they don't have the freed up I imagine the "split terminals" for the will result in to Astoria remaining and to 96th street(phase 1)/125th street(phase 2) being the .

[Tinamarie]

Atlantic's a horrible place for transfers - lots of stairs, lots of people, long passageway. Unless you wanna exercise . Also keep in mind the B/D are much less frequent compared to the option you have.

 

I've been to Atlantic plenty of times before. I just can't win. I'll decide what to do when the comes. Maybe even experiment and try different things to see which would be faster.

[checkmatechamp13]

I've been to Atlantic plenty of times before. I just can't win. I'll decide what to do when the comes. Maybe even experiment and try different things to see which would be faster.

 

While there are many different variables to consider, you can use hopstop.com, google.com/transit, or the MTA's ''trip planner'' to see which route is scheduled to be the quickest.

In my opinion, the best way is the way that most people seem to suggest, which is the to the to the . The simplest way is almost always the best.

Where is your school at? I typed in directions from Fresh Pond Road at 67th Avenue to Atlantic Avenue at Flatbush Avenue and it said that the quickest way was actually the to Wycoff Avenue for the to Bway Junction for the to Lafayette Avenue, and Atlantic Avenue at Flatbush Avenue is fairly close to Manhattan, meaning that the quickest way could very well be to go via Brooklyn without entering Manhattan (I just typed in Atlantic Avenue because if you need the or , then your school probably isn't in Downtown Brooklyn. When I typed in addresses on Nostrand Avenue, Google said that you should take the to the to the at Junius Street to the at Franklin Avenue, and also suggested a route using the B44 bus)).