Am I the only one that likes the Orange (M)?

[Eric B]

1) I don't think the elimination of service at 2nd Avenue is going to have a huge impact for Lower East Side customers.

2) Since the will only be using East New York cars, there should be some spare 10 car trains in Jamaica, so if there was a really bad delay, some trains could be sent out on the Jamaica side.

3) I don't see what you are saying. No trains are terminating at 2nd Avenue, since part of the $4 million in savings is as a result of not having to have crew rooms at 2nd Avenue and Bay Parkway. If the train were sent back up as an , that wouldn't cause any problems.

4) There should still be some spare 10 car sets in Jamaica.

I don't think they're ever going to substitute 10 car trains, because they don't want to take the chance of having it sent out to Essex (like if whatever problem clears up on the way).

[Urbanfortitude]

4)I was referring to Late Nights but ON EVENT DAYS that happen to take place on weekends the won't be able2 use extra equipment unless they use 8car (M)'s which is better than nothing.

 

Let's see. Late nights and weekends the (M2) is a 4 car shuttle train. Plus we've already seen that if need be 207 equipment can be moved to the in an emergency (example: R44 ). The is not likely to suffer a car shortage to the point it would need to be reduced to an 8 car train.

[MTR Admiralty]

1)No East Village(Lower E Side,Alphabet City)

2)Exactly my point less delays you can always re-route the via 8th Av.What if something happened on the in Brooklyn they're stuck.

3)Strongly doubt it not good enough but its not IMPOSSIBLE for an 8car train to run on the & .It may happen but the chance is so slim.You never know they can run that 8car train to Lower East Side and send it back up as an .

4)I was referring to Late Nights but ON EVENT DAYS that happen to take place on weekends the won't be able2 use extra equipment unless they use 8car (M)'s which is better than nothing.

 

1. The Second Avenue thing is rather nonsensical. I don't know why diehard fans are bringing this up. Sure it's losing one line, but guess what, dozens of stations on the 4th Avenue and West End Lines will get one service only. What is there to pick up the slack? Also, one reason why the can be SRO during rush hours is because people transfer at Delancey. I'm not saying that once the merger is complete that nobody would get off at Delancey, but there will be a noticeable reduction of people transferring from the to the . Thus it frees up some space on the , allowing it to handle any 2nd Avenue crowds. Yes, I do know that 2nd Avenue has a good deal of patronage, I've seen it myself, I live on the . A freed up can cope with 2nd Avenue crowds. Even if the can't accomodate everyone, I have to tell you this: these are service cuts, so the MTA is expecting us to deal with SRO'd trains. People on Second Avenue should stop whining. There's something called the M21. Take the damned thing to Broadway Lafayette where you can catch the B, the D, the F and the M. Or the M14A to Delancey/Essex. Or the M14A to Union Square where there are other lines. Options are not limited to these guys. If they don't want to deal with the bus, they face it. They face the crowds. Cut the whining, there's more people that are really suffering.

2. AFAIK, during any service disruption on the 6th Avenue, no was rerouted via the 8th Avenue. For all I know, each line can handle a certain capacity. During such a disruption, the more prioritised lines get sent through: this is the . The gets sent through and the is usually suspended. When the merger takes affect, during a disruption, they cannot suspend the entire line because nothing could replace the Ridgewood section. Thus what can happen is that the could turn at Chambers, if there is such a disruption. It is unlikely that it will be sent over the 8th Avenue line because that could affect, to an even greater extent, service on the 8th Avenue line. Besides, these disruptions generally last for a few hours, not an entire day or a week. A 12/9 in the morning is cleared by evening rush.

3. While some trains may be laid up at JAM, the T/O should be totally aware what train he is taking out. Any wrong move, such as taking an 8-car train for the can jeopardise his career. The guys at Forest Hills watch whatever train comes in, if an 8-car train is missigned and placed on the , they would probably contact the T/O and have him change it to an and call on the next T/O at the yard to take out a full length R160 for the .

4. WHAT?!!?!?!?!

[Cait Sith]

1)No East Village(Lower E Side,Alphabet City)

2)Exactly my point less delays you can always re-route the via 8th Av.What if something happened on the in Brooklyn they're stuck.

3)Strongly doubt it not good enough but its not IMPOSSIBLE for an 8car train to run on the & .It may happen but the chance is so slim.You never know they can run that 8car train to Lower East Side and send it back up as an .

4)I was referring to Late Nights but ON EVENT DAYS that happen to take place on weekends the won't be able2 use extra equipment unless they use 8car (M)'s which is better than nothing.

 

But the never ran on event days....unless you mean baseball specials, that barely affects the line.

[Queens Surface]

1)No East Village(Lower E Side,Alphabet City)

2)Exactly my point less delays you can always re-route the via 8th Av.What if something happened on the in Brooklyn they're stuck.

3)Strongly doubt it not good enough but its not IMPOSSIBLE for an 8car train to run on the & .It may happen but the chance is so slim.You never know they can run that 8car train to Lower East Side and send it back up as an .

4)I was referring to Late Nights but ON EVENT DAYS that happen to take place on weekends the won't be able2 use extra equipment unless they use 8car (M)'s which is better than nothing.

 

If any events take place,they are at least 10 trains or more on layup on the express tracks between Union Turnpike and 169th st. So there is extra equipment to use.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

The two main reasons I'm not a fan of the as the is implementing it are:

 

1. Train length: Trains will be only eight cars long. I know why trains can't exceed eight cars, but it's still going to be a problem at high-use stations in Queens and Midtown Manhattan.

 

2. Weekend shuttle service: Basically the new will be the same as the old (M2) on weekends and major holidays. Everyone who wants Manhattan will either transfer to the or (and again to some other train to go uptown) or drive.

 

As far as train length is concerned, they should be running trains of at least nine cars. The BMT ran eight 67-foot cars per train in the East, which is nearly the same length as nine 60-footers. As far as I know, the only Eastern Division station than can't handle more than eight cars is Metropolitan. It used to be able to handle nine, but after being damaged by a fire, the (NYCT) (stupidly) rebuilt it for only eight cars. What would need to be moved or removed to allow the station to be extended one car length south?

 

As far as weekend service, if they're not going to run it all the way to Continental, at least run the to Essex, so riders can connect to the for uptown and northern Queens service with just one transfer instead of the current two. Also, people headed to the Lower East Side for its nightlife on weekends would be able to take the directly there without having to transfer to the first.

 

Were it not for these two issues and if a new service can be implemented to replace the loss of (M2) service in Lower Manhattan and southern Brooklyn, then I'd be all for the . But that's not happening, at least not right now anyway. The , and trains are going to get whacked the hardest from the loss of the (M2).

 

As far as Queens Boulevard or 6th Avenue blowing up during rush hours, that already happens now. It's certainly possible to turn an at Essex or Chambers if there's a problem with 6th Avenue or Queens Blvd, while or trains can be sent local to replace the suspended . To me, the crowds at the 53rd Street stations and high-use QB local stations like Woodhaven Blvd are more of a concern. How will an 8-car train deal with those crowds? Or more appropriately, how will those crowds deal with an 8-car train?

[Q101viaSteinway]

1)

4) There should still be some spare 10 car sets in Jamaica.

But the Jamaica line could only accomodate 8 car train

[2 Train Master]

But the never ran on event days....unless you mean baseball specials, that barely affects the line.

Referring to the (V)'s equipment late nights parties n stuff go on in the Village clubs and stuff.Several hundreds of people take what ever is sitting in 2nd Av which is most likely the .Now they won't have that anymore they gotta wait for an .Also I meant like on Event days the uses equipment and even equipment as the uses ( equipment even a spare set of R68/A .Now thats gone they're not gonna use an 8car train!

[Guest lance25]

Whether it's an , or some other letter, that has nothing to do with yard assignments. If an extra trainset is needed for any type of situation, line managers (or whatever they're called) can pull a train out of any given yard and put in service.

[LRG]

Whether it's an , or some other letter, that has nothing to do with yard assignments. If an extra trainset is needed for any type of situation, line managers (or whatever they're called) can pull a train out of any given yard and put in service.

 

Uh, line managers are getting the boot. And no, an 8-car R160 can't be used for the and neither can the use a 10-car R160 or that'll be the crew's ass.

[Queens Surface]

Referring to the (V)'s equipment late nights parties n stuff go on in the Village clubs and stuff.Several hundreds of people take what ever is sitting in 2nd Av which is most likely the .Now they won't have that anymore they gotta wait for an .Also I meant like on Event days the uses equipment and even equipment as the uses ( equipment even a spare set of R68/A .Now thats gone they're not gonna use an 8car train!

 

Well with these late night parties, I was at 2nd Ave around 10 PM, i saw two trains enter and people on that train ran over for the . Now when the train finally leaves only about 1-5 people actually on the train at 2nd Ave.

[Pablo M 201]

Well with these late night parties, I was at 2nd Ave around 10 PM, i saw two trains enter and people on that train ran over for the . Now when the train finally leaves only about 1-5 people actually on the train at 2nd Ave.

Exactly. I don't understand how night life has to do with the train. train service ends between 11PM and midnight. People are on their way to the clubs and parties at that time, and you don't have hundreds of people going all at once, it's all spread out going at different hours of the night. And seriously, the is not rush hour jam-packed at those hours of the night for people to just take the .

 

And to add to people leaving the for the at 2nd Avenue, it never fails. Everytime I'm at 2nd Avenue during a weekday, at least 90% of the people sitting on the jump off that and to the if it is coming in. The only people I can see staying on the at 2nd Ave is those heading to the following stops: 5th Avenue/53rd Street, Lexington Avenue/53rd Street, 23rd Street/Ely Avenue, and Queens Plaza. Simple solution, suck it up and just take the to Broadway-Lafayette, then transfer to the . It's really not a big deal.

 

Now riddle me this, if people between 47-50th Streets and lets say to at least West 4th Street going to 2nd Avenue, and an train is the first to roll in, are most of those people going to wait for the ? I think not.

 

The only good argument I see against the new service is the loss of a 4th Avenue Local and loss of direct Nassau Street service. Other than that, I would like to see how this new service transpire.

[B35 via Church]

I seldom take the to work... but whenever I do, I do note ppl. switching over to the @ 2nd av....

 

what's just as funny, is those ppl leaving (V)'s to embark on (F)'s are the same ppl to bombard my ( train in the morning.... I don't know if the is scheduled to meet up w/ the ( at Bway-Lafayette around 8:30 ish (am), but this it's happening at a higher rate now....

 

 

btw, I don't think I ever did state my stance on the new M service.... I'm all for it; always was... even being a brooklynite, I'm not near as adamant (or supportive) as some others about keeping it in south brooklyn...

 

far as the bullet itself... I think it looks awkward, but cool @ the same time, when you see it coupled the way it will end up being;

 

i.e. ... lol....

[MTR Admiralty]

The two main reasons I'm not a fan of the as the is implementing it are:

 

1. Train length: Trains will be only eight cars long. I know why trains can't exceed eight cars, but it's still going to be a problem at high-use stations in Queens and Midtown Manhattan.

 

2. Weekend shuttle service: Basically the new will be the same as the old (M2) on weekends and major holidays. Everyone who wants Manhattan will either transfer to the or (and again to some other train to go uptown) or drive.

 

As far as train length is concerned, they should be running trains of at least nine cars. The BMT ran eight 67-foot cars per train in the East, which is nearly the same length as nine 60-footers. As far as I know, the only Eastern Division station than can't handle more than eight cars is Metropolitan. It used to be able to handle nine, but after being damaged by a fire, the (NYCT) (stupidly) rebuilt it for only eight cars. What would need to be moved or removed to allow the station to be extended one car length south?

 

As far as weekend service, if they're not going to run it all the way to Continental, at least run the to Essex, so riders can connect to the for uptown and northern Queens service with just one transfer instead of the current two. Also, people headed to the Lower East Side for its nightlife on weekends would be able to take the directly there without having to transfer to the first.

 

Were it not for these two issues and if a new service can be implemented to replace the loss of (M2) service in Lower Manhattan and southern Brooklyn, then I'd be all for the . But that's not happening, at least not right now anyway. The , and trains are going to get whacked the hardest from the loss of the (M2).

 

As far as Queens Boulevard or 6th Avenue blowing up during rush hours, that already happens now. It's certainly possible to turn an at Essex or Chambers if there's a problem with 6th Avenue or Queens Blvd, while or trains can be sent local to replace the suspended . To me, the crowds at the 53rd Street stations and high-use QB local stations like Woodhaven Blvd are more of a concern. How will an 8-car train deal with those crowds? Or more appropriately, how will those crowds deal with an 8-car train?

1. That is a valid issue I see with the merger. However, the is STILL a local. How many riders can it pick up? Besides it is not the only line down along Queens Blvd or 6th Avenue, so at the stations you mentioned or cited, there are other services, such as the . There WILL be crowding for sure, but it will not be apocalyptic as Lexington Avenue during rush hour, or the .

2. That is another valid point - but where can they send it? Chambers is going to be occupied by the , unless you bump the to Broad and then send the to turn at Chambers during the weekends. But that means money. Turning at Essex is not a good idea, since it is a through station. To be frank, if it is feasible, why hasn't it been done already? Running along 6th Avenue sounds like a good idea, for the weekend, but think: not only does it require more money, it would be an even bigger mess when it comes to GOs. The sometimes hops on the , especially now with the Broadway-Lafayette construction.

3. Why yes, Standards were used for a while in the system. But the new norm is to have 4 car sets of either 60 footers or 75 footers and 5 car sets of 60 footers. Even with SMEE equipment, it would be awkward to split a pair and run one of them with 4 other pairs.

4. Again with Essex. Sure, on the track map it looks perfectly feasible. But even with the crappy headways during late nights, it could still affect service.

[Damien Burner Blaze]

I like the but just teh color. not really the way the route goes

[Cait Sith]

Referring to the (V)'s equipment late nights parties n stuff go on in the Village clubs and stuff.Several hundreds of people take what ever is sitting in 2nd Av which is most likely the .Now they won't have that anymore they gotta wait for an .Also I meant like on Event days the uses equipment and even equipment as the uses ( equipment even a spare set of R68/A .Now thats gone they're not gonna use an 8car train!

 

Huh?! Hold up, I live one stop from the line and I usually see those trains not that full at night when it gets to 2nd Avenue, a lot of the people either get off to chill outside at them clubs/resturants/bars or just transfer for the , night life crowd doesnt even affect the at all because a majority of those people use the and . Why do you think when there's a service disruption either along Queens Blvd or 6th Ave, the gets suspended in both directions? Because there's no other use for it or a reroute because people would use the or which run more frequently....

 

Now for event days, the and use the same shit, the only lines that are affected during event days are the lines that actually serve those places like the (B)/(D) & to 161st Street & the to Shitty Field....Explain how the is involved in any of those events, it doesnt run on weekend events or on weekends either either that arguement is just invalid....

 

And how you would know how the 2nd Ave/East/West Village scene is, have you been around 1st Ave, Ave A/B/C/D and parts west of Broadway after 9PM? I seriously doubt you have. You probably been in the station at the time, but not outside of the station to really see whats around you....always gotta be listening to the wrong people when you dont even look to see things for yourself, smh!

 

Exactly. I don't understand how night life has to do with the train. train service ends between 11PM and midnight. People are on their way to the clubs and parties at that time, and you don't have hundreds of people going all at once, it's all spread out going at different hours of the night. And seriously, the is not rush hour jam-packed at those hours of the night for people to just take the .

 

And to add to people leaving the for the at 2nd Avenue, it never fails. Everytime I'm at 2nd Avenue during a weekday, at least 90% of the people sitting on the jump off that and to the if it is coming in. The only people I can see staying on the at 2nd Ave is those heading to the following stops: 5th Avenue/53rd Street, Lexington Avenue/53rd Street, 23rd Street/Ely Avenue, and Queens Plaza. Simple solution, suck it up and just take the to Broadway-Lafayette, then transfer to the . It's really not a big deal.

 

Now riddle me this, if people between 47-50th Streets and lets say to at least West 4th Street going to 2nd Avenue, and an train is the first to roll in, are most of those people going to wait for the ? I think not.

 

The only good argument I see against the new service is the loss of a 4th Avenue Local and loss of direct Nassau Street service. Other than that, I would like to see how this new service transpire.

 

Couldnt have said it any better!

[checkmatechamp13]

But the Jamaica line could only accomodate 8 car train

 

I meant there would be spare trains in the Jamaica Yard on the Queens Blvd Line.

[Guest Charles]

Look, people. For those of y'all who keep saying that the will create havoc on Queens Blvd by holding up traffic because of people running for the train: it won't.

 

Why? There just aren't that many stations along the QB Local where this problem would occur. I've been a lifelong rider along the QB Local. The only station between Continental and Roosevelt that has an major entrance at one of the extreme ends of the station is Grand Av (towards 54 Av IIRC). The main stairs at 71st, 67th, 63rd, Woodhaven, Elmhurst, and Roosevelt all lead into the generally central part of the platform.

 

Between Roosevelt and Queens Plaza, yes, there are stations where people may have to run for the train. For example, the only exits on Northern and 65th are located at a far end of the station. But the passenger capacities at these stations is nowhere near that of the stations between Continental and Roosevelt. I haven't seen the placement of the conductor boards yet, but hopefully the did something logical and placed the boards to align the trains with the exit areas. The only places where the would "supposedly wreak havoc on QBL" would be at 46 Street and Steinway (when people come in from the Broadway exit).

 

Now I'm not saying that the 480-foot trains will be problem free. The situation in Manhattan will surely be different. I'm positive there will be occurances of passengers running for the train and therefore holding up service. There will also be occurances on Queens Blvd when people run for the train. But it's not going to be as bad as people claim it to be. From what I've read , most of the hate of the along QB is because of this notion that people running for the will hold up service and whatnot. Truthfully, that's just some bs.

 

I'm looking forward to the new along QB. It'll make the lives of people in the growing populations of Brooklyn much easier. It'll be a fun ride.

[2Line1291]

Honestly, I can't wait to hear the kind of feedback the service is gonna have; If it's majority wise good, bad, ok, etc.

[2 Train Master]

I usually see those trains not that full at night when it gets to 2nd Avenue,transfer for the .

 

Now for event days, the and use the same shit, ....Explain how the is involved in any of those events, it doesnt run on weekend events or on weekends either either that arguement is just invalid....

 

And how you would know how the 2nd Ave/East/West Village scene is, have you been around 1st Ave, Ave A/B/C/D and parts west of Broadway after 9PM? I seriously doubt you have. You probably been in the station at the time, but not outside of the station to really see whats around you....always gotta be listening to the wrong people when you dont even look to see things for yourself, smh!

 

1)You don't usually see those trains full at night.What you mean by "not that full" 30ppl/car? To me that's half car.Now the reason the maybe empty is an train arrived and people took that.Now if that didn't arrive that will be full of people.

2)You don't realize what I'm making my point about.When there are events and service is needing AN INCREASE and service they won't be ABLE 2 USE equipment b\c its gonna be gone.And they damn sure won't use an 8car set! It was an example.

3)Yes I have been I go around there every 2weeks or so.And during the Halloween events its very packed! Please tell me who I'm listening too b\c I witness myself the capacity and yes the has fair ridership btwn 9pm and the last train out and when the comes it all disappears but if something happened that's it.

[Pablo M 201]

1)You don't usually see those trains full at night.What you mean by "not that full" 30ppl/car? To me that's half car.Now the reason the maybe empty is an train arrived and people took that.Now if that didn't arrive that will be full of people.

2)You don't realize what I'm making my point about.When there are events and service is needing AN INCREASE and service they won't be ABLE 2 USE equipment b\c its gonna be gone.And they damn sure won't use an 8car set! It was an example.

3)Yes I have been I go around there every 2weeks or so.And during the Halloween events its very packed! Please tell me who I'm listening too b\c I witness myself the capacity and yes the has fair ridership btwn 9pm and the last train out and when the comes it all disappears but if something happened that's it.

Theres always going to be spare equipment around. Not every single train is going out even at the peak of service, so if an extra train or two is needed, then it will be supplied in.

[Cait Sith]

1)You don't usually see those trains full at night.What you mean by "not that full" 30ppl/car? To me that's half car.Now the reason the maybe empty is an train arrived and people took that.Now if that didn't arrive that will be full of people.

2)You don't realize what I'm making my point about.When there are events and service is needing AN INCREASE and service they won't be ABLE 2 USE equipment b\c its gonna be gone.And they damn sure won't use an 8car set! It was an example.

3)Yes I have been I go around there every 2weeks or so.And during the Halloween events its very packed! Please tell me who I'm listening too b\c I witness myself the capacity and yes the has fair ridership btwn 9pm and the last train out and when the comes it all disappears but if something happened that's it.

 

There's always spare equipment around, not everything is going to be even at the peak of service, and for events, they might short turn some trains to 2nd Avenue, hell, Jamaica might even pitch in a 10 Car R160 for the to short turn there, and there were times when special train service went from 2nd Avenue to Jamaica Center on some of those events years ago during the weekday, if it landed on a weekend, trains would go to 2nd Avenue.

 

The Halloween event is only once a year and that doesnt really justify anything. Also FYI, that event was on a Saturday last year because Halloween fell on a weekend, and the never ran on a weekend so that also doesnt justify things either. From the time the was in service, at least 3-5 of the events were held on a weekend, your arguement doesnt justify anything.

 

And you really dont have a clue of whats around the radius between Broadway and Avenue D, I can really tell. Every two weeks....my ass! :tdown:

[checkmatechamp13]

Let me clear up the whole issue with the equipment.

 

The will be using the trainsets it currently uses to go out to Bay Parkway. The distance from Essex Street to Bay Parkway is a similar distance as the distance from Essex Street to Forest Hills. (About 45 minutes runtime) The will pretty much use the same number of trainsets.

This means that Jamaica Yard will be left with a surplus of cars. Sure, some of them may be transferred to other yards (most likely Pitkin to retire the R44s), but even after the transfers, they will still be left with a surplus.

 

Let me put it to you this way:

According to: http://www.thejoekorner.com/carassignments/bmt-ind-2009-09-14a.html , the uses 15 trainsets during rush hour. According to Wikipedia, there are 112 R44s left to be retired. That makes about 14 trainsets. That means that, theoretically, all of the trainsets "saved" by this new could retire the remaining R44s with an extra trainset left over.

Of course, the MTA wouldn't retire all of the R44s by this method. They would probably leave Jamaica with 4-5 extra trainsets.

Alternatively, the could use 26 of those available cars to lengthen the to 6 cars. Of course, since they cut it back permanently (and officially) to Court Square, it is probably even less necessary than before.

 

Pretty much, what I am trying to say is that the new will leave extra leftover cars. If nothing else, this increases the availability of spare trains for the (E)/(F) trains.

[m7zanr160s]

No, you're not alone. I like the new too. IDK about why the is hated so much, except for:

 

1. The Cut didn't work well forty years ago.

2. The QM24 is available (although some can't afford it)

3. On QBL, two cars less is trouble (although (V)s were almost never packed).

 

Never packed. Always a seat.

[m7zanr160s]

lol check out my late night map. the replaces the to Jamaica Late Nights stopping at Forest Hills.

 

 

 

Dang... What the!? With this map in effect, it looks like there'd be no more need for buses in the boroughs.