Express bus cut talk

[Cait Sith]

The point is that if you used them on local lines, this would become a bigger problem because they would certainly be torn up as show by the ripped up seats I consistently witnessed on RTS's that had suburban seating and were switched for local bus service out of Ulmer Park Depot (i.e. B64). I do see torn seats on express buses, but it's a rarity and it's usually on buses that are a good 10 years old and not on the newer MCIs.

 

In fact many of the MCIs being used on MTA Bus are in pristine condition and some of them are or will be 6 or 7 years old soon. I don't think that would be the case if they were used on local lines.

 

With the ways those MCIs are being taken care of down there in Staten Island, the condition of those buses inside and out is no different from their local buses. I've been on several MCIs out of Yukon where I actually had to hold the seat down at the rear of the bus so it wouldnt slide all the bloody time...the MCIs at MTA Bus arent so much in that pristine condition type status, I can tell you after being on a really good amount of those buses. They might look good on the inside and out, but the performance on those buses varies....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

He's saying that, for $5.50 per ride, there shouldn't be any torn seats.

 

IMO, for $5.50, you do get a lot of value. You get a fast ride without having to stand (and it is a luxury to have a seat when the nearby subway line is crushloaded), and, generally, it is a much more peaceful ride than the subway/local bus. Even if the seats end up being a little more torn (provided they aren't slashed to shreds), you're still getting good value.

 

Also, like LRG said, the local buses cost less than the express buses (to purchase), so, even after replacing some of the seat cushions, the MTA will still come out ahead.

 

Personally, some overcrowded lines could use that local bus-style seating (with seat cushions, of course). It would allow some extra people to fit in, rather than being bypassed because there is no more standing room.

 

When I took the express bus, I was shocked that regular, healthy people would turn down a bus just because there were no seats. My logic is: If there are no seats on this one, there might not be seats on the next one, or the one after that, so why wait another 15-20 minutes when you can get on the bus right there and relax at work?

 

 

It's not only about the quick ride. It is also about comfort. Those MCIs were not made for people to stand in them and they are much narrower for SRO than say the subway cars or local buses.

 

Many people including myself generally will not get on if it is SRO because for what they are paying, they are paying more to get that comfort and also they know that in some cases they may be standing in that narrow little aisle for up to two hours if there is traffic. I have done it a few times before, particularly on weekends when there were just no X10s coming and believe me it is not only a uncomfortable ride, but also a bit dangerous, especially the way those MCIs jerk around.

 

Also, most express bus riders give themselves additional time anyway for those sort of instances, so they're not exactly in a rush should one bus come and it is SRO.

[checkmatechamp13]

I had read the express bus threads in here and it was the main reason I joined actually to try to understand the railing on express buses and also shed some light on express buses because to be honest, it is often overlooked except for when cuts are discussed. Perhaps the fact that they aren't really advertised is the reason why some lines don't do so well. If you think about it, I would like to compare all of the subway lines in the system and see which ones have the lowest ridership and if any that were recently cut were cut due to low ridership and then compare that with express bus ridership and cuts.

 

I think the main reason the MTA keeps express buses, even ones that don'y so well is the whole "network coverage thing". They understand that express buses generally run in suburban areas with no subway and perhaps if they went and axed every line that wasn't packed, you could argue that they were bias against suburban areas by constantly reducing their service when ridership wasn't up to their standards. Afterall, their thinking is that as a public agency they have a resposnsbility to provide everyone with a rapid form of transportation, be it in urban areas or suburban areas.

 

I'm just going to come out and say it again:

 

Nobody here is advocating for the complete elimination of the express bus system.

 

Most people here feel that, if a route (express or local) has decent ridership, it should be kept, but some routes simply aren't worth keeping.

 

Think of it this way: The MTA's strategy for selecting routes for elimination was to pick ones that had a farebox recovery ratio of 2/3 the system average or less (and that was initially-they weeded out the routes that were needed for network coverage). I'm not sure if it applied to the express bus system, but I know for a fact that it applied to the local bus system.

 

In the NYCT system, the average express route had a farebox recovery ratio of 49%, so 2/3 of that is 33%. By comparison, the local bus system had a farebox recovery ratio of 79%, so 2/3 of that is 53%.

 

Express buses are already given an advantage when it comes to service reductions because the standards are much lower. Of course, you can weed out the coverage services on express bus routes, but when you're still running a route at a 10% farebox recovery ratio (BM4), when you've eliminated local routes with a 50% farebox recovery ratio, that is a problem.

 

It's not only about the quick ride. It is also about comfort. Those MCIs were not made for people to stand in them and they are much narrower for SRO than say the subway cars or local buses.

 

Many people including myself generally will not get on if it is SRO because for what they are paying, they are paying more to get that comfort and also they know that in some cases they may be standing in that narrow little aisle for up to two hours if there is traffic. I have done it a few times before, particularly on weekends when there were just no X10s coming and believe me it is not only a uncomfortable ride, but also a bit dangerous, especially the way those MCIs jerk around.

 

Also, most express bus riders give themselves additional time anyway for those sort of instances, so they're not exactly in a rush should one bus come and it is SRO.

 

Commuter rail customers pay a premium fare and many of them still have to stand if the train is crowded.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

With the ways those MCIs are being taken care of down there in Staten Island, the condition of those buses inside and out is no different from their local buses. I've been on several MCIs out of Yukon where I actually had to hold the seat down at the rear of the bus so it wouldnt slide all the bloody time...the MCIs at MTA Bus arent so much in that pristine condition type status, I can tell you after being on a really good amount of those buses. They might look good on the inside and out, but the performance on those buses varies....

 

 

A big part of the neglect stems from the lack of space in the current depots. I personally think that Yukon does a little better with their buses than does Castleon. However, you also need to realize that the MCIs on Staten Island are generally older than the other MCIs in the system, especially when compared to say MTA Bus.

 

For a while we were getting 3000s in Castleton but they were taking such a beating on the road and also taking a beating on the inside on the weekends that they were sent back...

 

You see I'm not going to bullshit and say that some express bus riders aren't pigs. I think I quite frankly that the X10 is probably the worse express bus in the system and a lot of that stems from some of the Port Richmond and Targee St. riders that get on during the weekends.

 

I have seen some of them eat their chicken wings and such and leave it right there on the bus. These aren't the usual classy express bus riders, but rather ones that normally don't ride in general and are just taking it once in a blue moon, usually on the weekends; your average local bus rider in other words, and as a result, the buses are sometimes trashed. I notice this less so on the X1 which passes through mainly well-to-do areas on the South Shore.

 

However, this goes to prove my point that express buses used on local lines would be a bad idea. Quite frankly the X10 would be in a lot better shape if it started in say Bulls Head and completely bypassed Port Richmond OR if they raised it from $5.50 to say $6.50 or $7.00. These seedy people would be less likely to board since it would be more expensive.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm just going to come out and say it again:

 

Nobody here is advocating for the complete elimination of the express bus system.

 

Most people here feel that, if a route (express or local) has decent ridership, it should be kept, but some routes simply aren't worth keeping.

 

Think of it this way: The MTA's strategy for selecting routes for elimination was to pick ones that had a farebox recovery ratio of 2/3 the system average or less (and that was initially-they weeded out the routes that were needed for network coverage). I'm not sure if it applied to the express bus system, but I know for a fact that it applied to the local bus system.

 

In the NYCT system, the average express route had a farebox recovery ratio of 49%, so 2/3 of that is 33%. By comparison, the local bus system had a farebox recovery ratio of 79%, so 2/3 of that is 53%.

 

Express buses are already given an advantage when it comes to service reductions because the standards are much lower. Of course, you can weed out the coverage services on express bus routes, but when you're still running a route at a 10% farebox recovery ratio (BM4), when you've eliminated local routes with a 50% farebox recovery ratio, that is a problem.

 

 

 

Commuter rail customers pay a premium fare and many of them still have to stand if the train is crowded.

 

 

 

Comparing SRO to commuter rail trains or local buses or subways and express buses is like comparing apples to oranges. The MTA does not want SROs on express buses if they can avoid it. In fact they are not supposed to have any SROs on lines like the X30 that go across state borders. I believe there is some legal issues involved with that. I am not however sure of the general rule for express buses not crossing state borders, but I do know that that may be the case for the X30, X17, X22 and X31 (when it does actually go via NJ instead of via Brooklyn).

 

P.S. I have a friend who takes MetroNorth and he often has to stand. Believe me, he is not happy about for the simple fact of the cost. When you pay more you expect more, simple as that and for a premium service like the express bus one does not expect to stand in those narrow aisles with a bus going along with bumpy Gowanus at 55 mph and jerking about every few minutes.

[Cait Sith]

A big part of the neglect stems from the lack of space in the current depots. I personally think that Yukon does a little better with their buses than does Castleon. However, you also need to realize that the MCIs on Staten Island are generally older than the other MCIs in the system, especially when compared to say MTA Bus.

 

For a while we were getting 3000s in Castleton but they were taking such a beating on the road and also taking a beating on the inside on the weekends that they were sent back...

 

 

I had a fresh, out of the box 2200 series MCI D4500CT, only 3 days into service that had its seats not attached at the rear, it had to be tied down....

[checkmatechamp13]

They figure that, if the bus is deadheading out of the depot, they might as well get a few riders on it. Also, if you cut the X10 short, you are ruining it for the people in Port Richmond who need a fast way to get to Manhattan, who aren't being sloppy and obnoxious (which there really aren't that many of).

[LRG]

You see, this is where the problem lies within people: they think they're entitled to so much. One-seat ride this, comfort that...all when it comes down to public transportation. Just for the record (and I'm gonna say it like it is, because it is the truth): express buses is STILL a form of public transportation. You're paying $3.25 extra, but what you're really paying for when you dip your MetroCard into the firebox of an MCI D4500 and it reads $5.50 is nothing more than a ride from point A to point B. the only thing that you're granted when you dip your card and the farebox reads $5.50 is a faster ride, which is why you pay more. Paying more to get from ETC in Staten Island to Midtown with the X1 in a quick amount of time versus paying $2.25 to ride the S79 to the train to the (D)/(N) which saves you money but racks up time is valid. But as for the notion that the $5.50 also comes with the cushioned seats is a load of garbage, so you can take that and stick it you know where.

 

And I dare someone give me a snide, one-worded or baseless reply or there will be a problem. This is a message board where we discuss our point across but if all you're going to do is throw an "incorrect", "nope" or "wrong" across like a child then something must be really wrong with your head.

[checkmatechamp13]

Comparing SRO to commuter rail trains or local buses or subways and express buses is like comparing apples to oranges. The MTA does not want SROs on express buses if they can avoid it. In fact they are not supposed to have any SROs on lines like the X30 that go across state borders. I believe there is some legal issues involved with that. I am not however sure of the general rule for express buses not crossing state borders, but I do know that that may be the case for the X30, X17, X22 and X31 (when it does actually go via NJ instead of via Brooklyn).

 

P.S. I have a friend who takes MetroNorth and he often has to stand. Believe me, he is not happy about for the simple fact of the cost. When you pay more you expect more, simple as that and for a premium service like the express bus one does not expect to stand in those narrow aisles with a bus going along with bumpy Gowanus at 55 mph and jerking about every few minutes.

 

Like I said, most of that high cost is due to the fact that it is an expensive service to operate.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I had a fresh, out of the box 2200 series MCI D4500CT, only 3 days into service that had its seats not attached at the rear, it had to be tied down....

 

Some of the signs on them are going already even on the BM lines along with broken seats and those buses aren't as heavily used in terms of ridership as they are at Yukon.

 

I still prefer the MCI D4500 series. More durable and better looking overall.

[Mark 1]

The point is that if you used them on local lines, this would become a bigger problem because they would certainly be torn up as show by the ripped up seats I consistently witnessed on RTS's that had suburban seating and were switched for local bus service out of Ulmer Park Depot (i.e. B64). I do see torn seats on express buses, but it's a rarity and it's usually on buses that are a good 10 years old and not on the newer MCIs.

 

In fact many of the MCIs being used on MTA Bus are in pristine condition and some of them are or will be 6 or 7 years old soon. I don't think that would be the case if they were used on local lines.

 

You do have a point but local buses will always see more riders, therefore more wear and tear on the seats in a shorter period of time compared to a MCI. The B1 and 6 were the worst routes to run the RTS suburbans hands down but the depot had to use what was available to make service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You see, this is where the problem lies within people: they think they're entitled to so much. One-seat ride this, comfort that...all when it comes down to public transportation. Just for the record (and I'm gonna say it like it is, because it is the truth): express buses is STILL a form of public transportation. You're paying $3.25 extra, but what you're really paying for when you dip your MetroCard into the firebox of an MCI D4500 and it reads $5.50 is nothing more than a ride from point A to point B. the only thing that you're granted when you dip your card and the farebox reads $5.50 is a faster ride, which is why you pay more. Paying more to get from ETC in Staten Island to Midtown with the X1 in a quick amount of time versus paying $2.25 to ride the S79 to the train to the (D)/(N) which saves you money but racks up time is valid. But as for the notion that the $5.50 also comes with the cushioned seats is a load of garbage, so you can take that and stick it you know where.

 

And I dare someone give me a snide, one-worded or baseless reply or there will be a problem. This is a message board where we discuss our point across but if all you're going to do is throw an "incorrect", "nope" or "wrong" across like a child then something must be really wrong with your head.

 

 

 

Well, you're right in theory, but the reality is if you're going to charge $5.50 a ride, $3.25 more per ride than the regular bus as you pointed out, then you had better offer something more than a quicker ride. Sure it's public transportation and all, but this is reality of it. With anything in life, you get what you pay for and the more you pay for something, the more expectations one has.

 

As other have argued, you could say when then take a ******* cab or whatever, but we both know that would lead to tons of congestion, so it sum, there has to be some sort of middle ground.

[LRG]

Well, you're right in theory, but the reality is if you're going to charge $5.50 a ride, $3.25 more per ride than the regular bus as you pointed out, then you had better offer something more than a quicker ride. Sure it's public transportation and all, but this is reality of it. With anything in life, you get what you pay for and the more you pay for something, the more expectations one has.

 

I guess I just view things in a simplistic form. I'm more grateful that something shows up at the bus stop to take me where I need to go, rather than being in a worst-case scenario and not have any bus show up at all, pertaining to both local and express buses, bus types and level of service and the whole nine....

[Mark 1]

He's saying that, for $5.50 per ride, there shouldn't be any torn seats.

 

IMO, for $5.50, you do get a lot of value. You get a fast ride without having to stand (and it is a luxury to have a seat when the nearby subway line is crushloaded), and, generally, it is a much more peaceful ride than the subway/local bus. Even if the seats end up being a little more torn (provided they aren't slashed to shreds), you're still getting good value.

 

Also, like LRG said, the local buses cost less than the express buses (to purchase), so, even after replacing some of the seat cushions, the MTA will still come out ahead.

 

Some people still don't get it. A flat $5.50 fare is a bargain going between boroughs and using a midtown Manhattan to Staten Island commute for other modes of transportation....

 

- By ferry/train and local bus, $2.25 but the ride takes much longer.

 

- By personal car, you're paying tolls one way no matter what. $8 on a PA bridge or $13 via the Verrazano and note I am not factoring in the resident discount.

 

- By cab, you're going to pay at least 4 times the amount on a express bus.

 

Do the math. Be thankful New York doesn't use a zone system or the fare would be even higher.

 

In response to MCI's, they're here for uniformed fleet purposes and they're here now so you can't change the past. I will say as I did a few pages before is some 40 foot suburbans could have been reactivated for express service instead until the time came for new buses.

[checkmatechamp13]

I'm going to use an example from my own life (this sounds like something B35 would say):

 

I go into the supermarket and see 2 brands of orange juice-from concentrate and not from concentrate. The OJ from concentrate is $1.99, but the OJ not from concentrate is $2.99.

 

The fact is that the price of the orange juice is based on what it costs to produce it. The OJ from concentrate costs less to transport and store than the OJ not from concentrate. Whether I feel that I am getting better value by buying the more expensive OJ is up to me-but the price is still the same.

 

I'm going to use another example. I go into the store and I see ShopRite Oats for $2.50 and Quaker Oats for $5.00. They are literally the exact same thing-oats. Whether I feel it is worth paying double the price for it is my business.

 

The same thing applies to express bus riders. There are two things I want you to draw from my explanation:

 

1) The cost of a good (the express bus) isn't necessarily based on the quality of it-it is also based on the cost it takes to produce it.

 

2) If the provider sets the price of a good, it is up to the customer to decide what is the best value. Do they value their time, money, or comfort more?

[Trainmaster5]

The does not guarantee a seat, cushioned or otherwise, on any form of transportation. The fare gives you A ride and that's it. If they removed all of the cushioned seats would ridership disappear? I doubt it.

[B35 via Church]

When I took the express bus, I was shocked that regular, healthy people would turn down a bus just because there were no seats. My logic is: If there are no seats on this one, there might not be seats on the next one, or the one after that, so why wait another 15-20 minutes when you can get on the bus right there and relax at work?

in the city, I don't bother gettin on no SRO local bus.... only when I'm out fanning outside city limits (except beeline & SCT), and I'm catching a particular bus that's SRO, I'll attempt to cram on one (local route)...

 

don't know if you've ever experienced/done it, but standing on an express bus is far worse than standing on a local bus, or subway.... I aint gettin on no SRO express bus ever again... w/ the MCI's, the only thing you really have to hold onto, is the back of a person's seat (which is irritating on both fronts), or the area right below the overhead storage compartment for that row, where people sometimes hold onto, when they're getting up from the "outer" seat on the row... don't really know what it's called, but you gotta have ridiculous strength in your fingers (or good balance) to hold onto that cusp (or w/e you wanna call it) for any length of time, especially when the bus is starting, braking, then starting again....

 

basically I'm replying to this reply to tell you that, I am one of those healthy people that have let a SRO express bus go.... I have waited well over 20 mins. for the next bus in the particular situation... sure that 2nd one might have been SRO too, but it never ever was... it's well worth (the wait) IMO.....

 

 

It's not only about the quick ride. It is also about comfort. Those MCIs were not made for people to stand in them and they are much narrower for SRO than say the subway cars or local buses.

 

Many people including myself generally will not get on if it is SRO because for what they are paying, they are paying more to get that comfort and also they know that in some cases they may be standing in that narrow little aisle for up to two hours if there is traffic. I have done it a few times before, particularly on weekends when there were just no X10s coming and believe me it is not only a uncomfortable ride, but also a bit dangerous, especially the way those MCIs jerk around.

 

Also, most express bus riders give themselves additional time anyway for those sort of instances, so they're not exactly in a rush should one bus come and it is SRO.

 

agreed...

 

I took the BM4 today from 30th/5th to nostrand & 'K.... the last run of the night....

 

that thing took well over an hour to get to that point (foolishly let a BM2 pass by, I was talking to another waiting passenger (that needed the BM3)... the driver was courteous, but man, I doze off around the FDR entrance ramp, woke up at the end of the tunnel (BBT)... then dozed off again around bishop ford, and didn't wake up until around bedford & 'K (almost missed my stop... lol).... think it got stuck in ocean av traffic point is, I don't take express buses for the quick ride either....

 

 

Commuter rail customers pay a premium fare and many of them still have to stand if the train is crowded.

they don't have to stand... 999/1000, they choose to....

they just don't want to bother sitting directly next to someone...

 

if a particular car is crowded, and there's no one sitting in the middle of the 3 seater (which is VERY common), well I'm goin to sit in the mothaf***a - and I don't care who doesn't approve of it... luckily, I've actually done it a few times, with no (external) problems; they can "think" whatever they want....

 

w/ the LIRR, that little problem can be rectified if they stop locking 2-3 cars at a time...

 

on an express bus, better believe if there's one more available seat, that passenger will sniff it out & sit in it...

not the same deal on a commuter train....

[B35 via Church]

express buses is STILL a form of public transportation.

yep.

 

^^ wait, that's the word response you didn't want... lol

 

Seriously though, this is the main stance I originally (and still continue to) hold, when I first participated in this thread... I think this simple point has gotten lost in translation at time, so to speak, with the excitement of pinning/comparing locals to expresses throughout this discussion (myself included)....

 

I hate to make it seem like I'm playin the fence, but for me, it isn't really about better or worse.

 

 

You do have a point but local buses will always see more riders, therefore more wear and tear on the seats in a shorter period of time compared to a MCI. The B1 and 6 were the worst routes to run the RTS suburbans hands down but the depot had to use what was available to make service.

if you ask me, every RTS suburban we have in our system resemble "hand me downs".... for the life of me, I have not been on one of them things where either a particular seat didn't recline at all, the seat reclined on some obtuse angle - almost touching the seat behind, or the material under the seat cover being sprinkled all over that area of the bus....

 

 

Some people still don't get it. A flat $5.50 fare is a bargain going between boroughs and using a midtown Manhattan to Staten Island commute for other modes of transportation....

 

- By ferry/train and local bus, $2.25 but the ride takes much longer.

 

- By personal car, you're paying tolls one way no matter what. $8 on a PA bridge or $13 via the Verrazano and note I am not factoring in the resident discount.

 

- By cab, you're going to pay at least 4 times the amount on a express bus.

 

Do the math. Be thankful New York doesn't use a zone system or the fare would be even higher

 

^^ This.

 

the yellow cabs jimmy the meter every so often anyway, especially when they know they're gunning for tourists....

 

 

anyway, in this city, we're either gonna have to put up with (base) fare increases every couple years, or the introduction of a zone based fare (which'll still end up increasing anyway, just not at the same rate)...

 

choose... poison... wisely

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The does not guarantee a seat, cushioned or otherwise, on any form of transportation. The fare gives you A ride and that's it. If they removed all of the cushioned seats would ridership disappear? I doubt it.

 

I don't think anyone said that the MTA guarantees passengers anything. However, what they do come close to guaranteeing now is that a bus or two will be MIA at least once a week now that they're not replacing drivers that call out sick and/or are pulling buses unofficially...

 

On that note I do have a question... I waited for almost 20 minutes this morning and 3 X30s were supposed to have arrived in that time period. I assume the first one came early. The second one was scheduled to arrive eight minutes later and never showed up. The third one finally came right on time 6 minutes later. I was expecting a crush loaded bus, but to my surprise there were plenty of seats. I caught one around 7am heading to the city. How often do they review ridership on express bus runs?

 

Occasionally I have to go in early to attend networking events and such and I've noticed that when I've left early to catch either and X14 or an X30 around 06:30 or 7am, there are buses scheduled pretty frequently but nothing comes for a while, so you'll one bus instead of two or three that were scheduled. It's clear to me that ridership has dropped on both lines, yet they still officially have pretty frequent service around the time that I listed above.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Some people still don't get it. A flat $5.50 fare is a bargain going between boroughs and using a midtown Manhattan to Staten Island commute for other modes of transportation....

 

- By ferry/train and local bus, $2.25 but the ride takes much longer.

 

- By personal car, you're paying tolls one way no matter what. $8 on a PA bridge or $13 via the Verrazano and note I am not factoring in the resident discount.

 

- By cab, you're going to pay at least 4 times the amount on a express bus.

 

Do the math. Be thankful New York doesn't use a zone system or the fare would be even higher.

 

In response to MCI's, they're here for uniformed fleet purposes and they're here now so you can't change the past. I will say as I did a few pages before is some 40 foot suburbans could have been reactivated for express service instead until the time came for new buses.

 

You seem to either not want to acknowledge or fail to realize that it's $5.50 each way and it is heavily subsidized and those subsidizes come from TAXES... I don't know about you, but I pay a decent amount in taxes, so yeah I would expect a "bargain" to use public transportation, even on express buses. Nevertheless, it is still more than double what you would pay on local buses or subways.

 

People keep talking about how it's such a bargain... Well that's the whole point... If people give up their cars to ride the express bus and take less cars off of the road then yeah it should be cheap, especially when they're paying taxes for the service either way, whether they use it or not, so it's a moot point.

 

New York City is very unique in that it has such a large population which in many forces the public to use public transportation, so again it should be cheap. Modes of transportation is a service just like any other service, and people do and should have certain expectations of what they are getting for their service. Seeing that the MTA is really the main game in town, it's not like folks have a real choice to use another transit company if they are disatisfied with the MTA and don't want to drive, carpool or take a cab to work. It would be interesting to see how the MTA stacks up against other transportation companies around the country and the world.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

in the city, I don't bother gettin on no SRO local bus.... only when I'm out fanning outside city limits (except beeline & SCT), and I'm catching a particular bus that's SRO, I'll attempt to cram on one (local route)...

 

don't know if you've ever experienced/done it, but standing on an express bus is far worse than standing on a local bus, or subway.... I aint gettin on no SRO express bus ever again... w/ the MCI's, the only thing you really have to hold onto, is the back of a person's seat (which is irritating on both fronts), or the area right below the overhead storage compartment for that row, where people sometimes hold onto, when they're getting up from the "outer" seat on the row... don't really know what it's called, but you gotta have ridiculous strength in your fingers (or good balance) to hold onto that cusp (or w/e you wanna call it) for any length of time, especially when the bus is starting, braking, then starting again....

 

basically I'm replying to this reply to tell you that, I am one of those healthy people that have let a SRO express bus go.... I have waited well over 20 mins. for the next bus in the particular situation... sure that 2nd one might have been SRO too, but it never ever was... it's well worth (the wait) IMO.....

 

 

 

 

agreed...

 

I took the BM4 today from 30th/5th to nostrand & 'K.... the last run of the night....

 

that thing took well over an hour to get to that point (foolishly let a BM2 pass by, I was talking to another waiting passenger (that needed the BM3)... the driver was courteous, but man, I doze off around the FDR entrance ramp, woke up at the end of the tunnel (BBT)... then dozed off again around bishop ford, and didn't wake up until around bedford & 'K (almost missed my stop... lol).... think it got stuck in ocean av traffic point is, I don't take express buses for the quick ride either....

 

 

 

they don't have to stand... 999/1000, they choose to....

they just don't want to bother sitting directly next to someone...

 

if a particular car is crowded, and there's no one sitting in the middle of the 3 seater (which is VERY common), well I'm goin to sit in the mothaf***a - and I don't care who doesn't approve of it... luckily, I've actually done it a few times, with no (external) problems; they can "think" whatever they want....

 

w/ the LIRR, that little problem can be rectified if they stop locking 2-3 cars at a time...

 

on an express bus, better believe if there's one more available seat, that passenger will sniff it out & sit in it...

not the same deal on a commuter train....

 

Because I think some folks are misinformed on some things about express buses. SRO is a good example... Express buses and local buses are two completely different things and as I said before, they were not created for people to be standing on them like local buses or subways. That's why I said to checkmate that he's comparing apples to oranges.

 

The aisles are extremely narrow on express buses and as B35 pointed out there is really nothing to hold on to and feel reality safe with the bus jerking and such and hitting bumps along the expressway. Dare I say it, but it can downright painful standing on those express buses and I will never do it again unless it is an outright necessity. When I'm on an express bus and it is SRO, I really feel for those guys because I know how tough it is and usually that's when the traffic is the worse.

 

Mind you I ALWAYS stand on the subway and local bus for half an hour at a time in some cases and that's because #1) I'm used to standing and more importantly #2) there's actually places to hold on to accordingly and room to stand so that you can balance yourself properly should the bus or subway stop suddenly. You don't really have that with the express bus.

[BZGuy]

Are standees allowed on the MCIs or is that one of those "grey" issues?

 

I know they don't want B/Os at CTTransit to stand people on express lines..even if they are using a local New Flyer.

[QM1to6Ave]

Are standees allowed on the MCIs or is that one of those "grey" issues?

 

I know they don't want B/Os at CTTransit to stand people on express lines..even if they are using a local New Flyer.

 

Technically, the MCIs do say "0 standees" and some b/os have said "sorry, no seats, can't let you on". But most don't care. You were allowed to stand on the express Orion 5s

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Are standees allowed on the MCIs or is that one of those "grey" issues?

 

I know they don't want B/Os at CTTransit to stand people on express lines..even if they are using a local New Flyer.

 

I'm almost certain that the MTA shouldn't have standees with the express routes that they have going via New Jersey and I have only once or twice actually been on an express bus going through Jersey with anyone standing. I think it was maybe one or two people at the most on X30 a few years back. Now that's not so bad compared to the X1 or even X10s or X12s that I've seen going back to Staten Island. They are crushloaded sometimes when there is a backlog of buses.

 

Just from a logistic point of view the MTA I'm sure has to know that standing on those express buses aren't just a question of being "uncomfortable" but really a question of safety. I remember this older lady was standing to just get off on an X10 on Richmond Ave and it was a terrible rain storm out. The bus stopped suddenly and jerked her and she fell down. Now she could've been BSing about the severity of her fall, but she sure as heck said she was filling out an accident report and would not leave so the BO had to put the bus out of service and we all had to get off in the pooring rain and run to another X10 that came shortly after.

 

Even me... I'm a healthy 6'4" 210 pound dude and I've been jerked around on those express buses. There is just nothing to hold firmly on to on those buses. Those seat handles aren't that stable since the chairs can recline, nor are those overhead thingys that B35 referred to earlier. I actually find them to be a bit slick to be honest.

[Forest Glen]

You see, this is where the problem lies within people: they think they're entitled to so much. One-seat ride this, comfort that...all when it comes down to public transportation. Just for the record (and I'm gonna say it like it is, because it is the truth): express buses is STILL a form of public transportation. You're paying $3.25 extra, but what you're really paying for when you dip your MetroCard into the firebox of an MCI D4500 and it reads $5.50 is nothing more than a ride from point A to point B. the only thing that you're granted when you dip your card and the farebox reads $5.50 is a faster ride, which is why you pay more. Paying more to get from ETC in Staten Island to Midtown with the X1 in a quick amount of time versus paying $2.25 to ride the S79 to the train to the (D)/(N) which saves you money but racks up time is valid. But as for the notion that the $5.50 also comes with the cushioned seats is a load of garbage, so you can take that and stick it you know where.

 

And I dare someone give me a snide, one-worded or baseless reply or there will be a problem. This is a message board where we discuss our point across but if all you're going to do is throw an "incorrect", "nope" or "wrong" across like a child then something must be really wrong with your head.

 

The express bus is a premium service. It is a luxurious alternative to a slow and overcrowded local bus and a subway station that smells like urine. Express bus haters can't comprehend that. Now go back to Bed-Stuy, project trash.