SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[Calvin]

why did i see:

 

2556-2559 with 2660-2663 on the as its a train set?

[BxM4Woodlawn]

Why did they ever stop running the C to Bedford Park Blvd?

[lupojohn]

Saw 3694 and 3695 at Steinway Street as part of a garbage train.

[Snowblock]

why did i see:

 

2556-2559 with 2660-2663 on the as its a train set?

I had that set earlier this week! The and share two yards, it's nothing amazing for their equipment to get shared. I've had R68A's on the as well.

they really should build a crossover from the F to the D before Broadway Lafayette. I wish those dame Mta big people see this and spend a few thousand dollars to install it. If they can do it at 74 Street on 7 train, they can do it there. Don't forget they spent thousand of dollars in connecting both Lexington Ave platforms to the B D F M train. 

LOL you think it costs a couple THOUSAND dollars to install a new switch????? You must be really new here.......

[R33WF]

post removed

Edited March 6, 2014 by R33WF

[Union Tpke]

There was one south of Broadway Lafayette, but it was removed during the Chrystie Street connection construction.

I heard about that but why did it need to get removed during construction?

 

 

Using Tapatalk

 

 

[NewFlyer 230]

I remember one time at 77th when a claustrophobic lady went nuts on the platform. Crazy. Cops. EMTs, and the FDNY had to be called in. Completely screwed up service.

@NewFlyer: your point about the R62A holding down the 15 years ago is invalid. Did you think that ridership hasn't increased in all these years? It's like saying that the doesn't need CBTC because it was fine without it 15 years ago .

And I'm sure you've been late to work or school or wherever the heck you go... As little as 2 or 3 minutes can make a huge difference. Throw in 6-10 minutes and forget it.

If anything, the MTA should be finding ways to increase service, not trying to reduce it. The SAS will not be finished in the forseeaboe future and the East Side will only continue to grow exponentially

That's why you wake up earlier of course. You can't blame the for the extreme crowding on the Lexington Ave line. The IRT was the ones who built the tunnels narrow and shorter. It was very silly to do that but at the time the IRT lines were built ridership wasn't that high as it is today. Let hope this 2nd Ave line does the trick even though the whole line isn't going to be complete for another 20+ years.

[BxM4Woodlawn]

Here are the Subway Rerouting Ideas

A: Rush Hour Service to Rockaway Park is replaced by the C

B: full 7 day service to 145th St. Reroute Brooklyn Service down the West End Line to Coney Island

C: extend Rush Hour Service to Rockaway Park

D: reroute Brooklyn Service local down the Brighton Line to Coney Island

E: no changes

F: replace M via the 53rd St Line

G: become Express in Brooklyn down the Culver Line terminating at Bay Parkway during Rush Hours

J: no changes
L: no changes
M: replace F via the 63rd St Line

N: reroute via Montague St Tunnel full time

Q: truncate at Whitehall St at all times

R: no changes

S: no changes

W: restart W service from 57th St to Brighton Beach express in Manhattan and Brooklyn Weekdays only
Z: no changes

1: retstore the 1/9 Skip Stop Service

2: no changes

3: extend Late Night Service to Chambers St

4: implement Express Late Night Service in Manhattan

5: implement Brooklyn service at all times except Late Nights

6: revert Bronx Express Service to Manhattan bound before noon and Bronx Bound after noon

7: revert to all day Express Service

[Union Tpke]

Here are the Subway Rerouting Ideas

A: Rush Hour Service to Rockaway Park is replaced by the C

What is the point?

B: full 7 day service to 145th St. Reroute Brooklyn Service down the West End Line to Coney Island

Why change the routing?

C: extend Rush Hour Service to Rockaway Park

D: reroute Brooklyn Service local down the Brighton Line to Coney Island

Again are there any benefits?

E: no changes

F: replace M via the 53rd St Line

Why?

G: become Express in Brooklyn down the Culver Line terminating at Bay Parkway during Rush Hours

Bay Pkwy can't be a terminal and the G can't be express in the 4 track section due to no possible way, there is no connection between the Crosstown and the Culver Express and no one would ride it any way

J: no changes

L: no changes

M: replace F via the 63rd St Line

N: reroute via Montague St Tunnel full time Why?

Q: truncate at Whitehall St at all times

This Is a horrible idea.

R: no changes

S: no changes

W: restart W service from 57th St to Brighton Beach express in Manhattan and Brooklyn Weekdays only

Z: no changes

1: restore the 1/9 Skip Stop Service

That was discontinued for a reason

It was unpopular and did not save any time

2: no changes

3: extend Late Night Service to Chambers St

4: implement Express Late Night Service in Manhattan

5: implement Brooklyn service at all times except Late Nights

I like this one

6: revert Bronx Express Service to Manhattan bound before noon and Bronx Bound after noon

7: revert to all day Express Service

You should look at these proposals to see of they are worth implementing

 

 

Using Tapatalk

 

 

[cl94]

I'm trying to figure out why everybody wants the and to switch back to their pre-2001 routings. The current operation works fine. The needs to be part-time because Broadway local service is extremely unreliable and Brighton riders prefer the 24/7 one seat to Broadway. If they want a 6th Avenue train, they can transfer at Atlantic or 34th to the , which tends to be pretty reliable as its weekend routing has minimal interaction with other services. The will have to be full-time when Phase 1 opens. Should the run on weekends? Maybe when funding improves. In the 90s, the 's only purpose outside of Brooklyn was to service 63rd Street. That is covered by the now. And don't forget that making new signs and printing new maps costs a fortune.

[Missabassie]

I'm trying to figure out why everybody wants the and to switch back to their pre-2001 routings. The current operation works fine. The needs to be part-time because Broadway local service is extremely unreliable and Brighton riders prefer the 24/7 one seat to Broadway. If they want a 6th Avenue train, they can transfer at Atlantic or 34th to the , which tends to be pretty reliable as its weekend routing has minimal interaction with other services. The will have to be full-time when Phase 1 opens. Should the run on weekends? Maybe when funding improves. In the 90s, the 's only purpose outside of Brooklyn was to service 63rd Street. That is covered by the now. And don't forget that making new signs and printing new maps costs a fortune.

Thanks for saying it cuz I don't get it either...

[MHV9218]

That's why you wake up earlier of course. You can't blame the for the extreme crowding on the Lexington Ave line. The IRT was the ones who built the tunnels narrow and shorter. It was very silly to do that but at the time the IRT lines were built ridership wasn't that high as it is today. Let hope this 2nd Ave line does the trick even though the whole line isn't going to be complete for another 20+ years.

That's a stupid answer and you know it. I woke up the same time and caught the same train for close to 5 years straight, leaving extra time for a delay. Now that same train is late every day and after it goes express and dumps me it's so late that even the extra time isn't enough. The MTA had a system that worked and was relatively reliable for years and they broke it cause nobody thought to consider the effects of a fleet change on the line. So, yes, this is the MTA's fault.

 

This isn't UES bitching either. I live nowhere near the UES and wouldn't ever want to. This is a regular commuter who can't understand how something (longer loading times and lower capacity) obvious to me from day one of the R62As on the Lex wasn't thought about with service adjusted accordingly. If you're gonna make everything move slower, change the damn schedule. Honestly, the 62As would be far better on less stop-heavy lines like the 4/5 where loading times aren't as important, but I guess nobody thought of that either.

[Snowblock]

I heard about that but why did it need to get removed during construction? Using Tapatalk

That whole area got reconfigured. Before the Chrystie St connection, the express and local tracks continued straight from Blaf to 2 Av, with a diamond crossover between the two going southbound (similar to the way that Roosevelt Ave or Utica Ave are currently configured). Then the express tracks (B3&4) were used to create the new line to Grand St, and new tracks (BJ1&2) were inserted to run to Essex. There was no room south of Blaf to keep a diamond switch, as the grades change immediately south of the station). Remember, before Chrystie St, the express tracks from W4-2 Ave were NON REVENUE and were in place for future expansion (the north end eventually became the express tracks to 34 St, while the south end never got to see the new tunnel to South 4th St in Brooklyn (hense why the other station was named WEST 4th St, instead of just 4th).

 

It's an unfortunate situation, especially since none of the express tracks at W4 have any switches south of the station, so a S/B train coming into W4 on the express track can not change to any other line, whether it be the local on the same line, or the opposite line.....my question on this issue is why haven't they ever installed crossovers NORTH of W4 on the upper level, like the lower level has? Because of that, if a N/B train gets sent via Rutgers, it can't get back to the express track until north of 59 St, and a S/B express doesn't even have the OPTION of going via Rutgers once it's entered 59 St!

Here are the Subway Rerouting Ideas

 

F: replace M via the 53rd St Line

M: replace F via the 63rd St Line

So what's gonna run via 63 St when the isn't running? Or are you gonna have both the and be 24/7 lines?

[BrooklynIRT]

LOL you think it costs a couple THOUSAND dollars to install a new switch????? You must be really new here.......

 

So what is the approximate cost of installing a new switch?

[Union Tpke]

That whole area got reconfigured. Before the Chrystie St connection, the express and local tracks continued straight from Blaf to 2 Av, with a diamond crossover between the two going southbound (similar to the way that Roosevelt Ave or Utica Ave are currently configured). Then the express tracks (B3&4) were used to create the new line to Grand St, and new tracks (BJ1&2) were inserted to run to Essex. There was no room south of Blaf to keep a diamond switch, as the grades change immediately south of the station). Remember, before Chrystie St, the express tracks from W4-2 Ave were NON REVENUE and were in place for future expansion (the north end eventually became the express tracks to 34 St, while the south end never got to see the new tunnel to South 4th St in Brooklyn (hense why the other station was named WEST 4th St, instead of just 4th).

 

It's an unfortunate situation, especially since none of the express tracks at W4 have any switches south of the station, so a S/B train coming into W4 on the express track can not change to any other line, whether it be the local on the same line, or the opposite line.....my question on this issue is why haven't they ever installed crossovers NORTH of W4 on the upper level, like the lower level has? Because of that, if a N/B train gets sent via Rutgers, it can't get back to the express track until north of 59 St, and a S/B express doesn't even have the OPTION of going via Rutgers once it's entered 59 St!

 

So what's gonna run via 63 St when the isn't running? Or are you gonna have both the and be 24/7 lines?

Thanks for the answer and I knew that the middle tracks at 2 Av were the original express tracks. Thanks again!

[peacemak3r]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. The statistic that Brighton riders prefer 24/7 one seat ride to Broadway does not account for 100% of Brighton riders because I can vouch for pretty big amount of riders that prefer a one seat ride through 6th Avenue instead.

 

I remember as a child we used to always take that or orange to Grand Street for Chinatown, but now we and others in the neighborhood actually drive out now because they don't want to take the current to Canal Street.

[M. Friday 1986]

Why did they ever stop running the C to Bedford Park Blvd?

If I remember, I was told once it was for three reasons (anyone can chime in or help me otherwise):

 

1) line at the time in 1998 was not capable of OPTO (One Person Train Operation) on the Concourse Line. It operated R32/38s.

 

2) line had too many terminals - 168th Street, Bedford Park Blvd, World Trade Center, Euclid Avenue, and until the '90s, Rockaways.

 

3) For simplicity in operations; aside from the above reason, I heard something about that they needed two seperate line supervisors to coordinate two lines down Concourse, a 6th Avenue one and an 8th Avenue one. After the swap, only one supervisor was needed.

 

SUPER EDIT: sorry for the edits, typing this all on my phone.

Edited March 6, 2014 by M. Friday 1986

[BrooklynIRT]

I've said it once and I'll say it again. The statistic that Brighton riders prefer 24/7 one seat ride to Broadway does not account for 100% of Brighton riders because I can vouch for pretty big amount of riders that prefer a one seat ride through 6th Avenue instead.

 

I remember as a child we used to always take that or orange to Grand Street for Chinatown, but now we and others in the neighborhood actually drive out now because they don't want to take the current to Canal Street.

 

Because it runs local in Brooklyn?

[BrooklynIRT]

1) line at the time in 1998 was not capable of OPTO (One Person Train Operation) on the Concourse Line. It operated R32/38s.

 

Why did they care about having OPTO-capable equipment on the Concourse Line?

[Lance]

Here are the Subway Rerouting Ideas

<suggestions removed for space>

I'm not sure if you're trolling or you simply don't understand why service is set up the way it is. Since I like to believe the best in everyone, I'm going to assume it's the latter and I'd like to explain why most of these "suggestions" won't work. However, since time is of the essence for me and I really don't feel like going line by line, I'm going to do this with generalities. If you want to expand service, whether that's by extending the times a particular line runs or extending the line from its present terminal to somewhere else, the demand has to be there. Capacity as well in certain cases. The inverse has to be in place when you're calling for service cuts on other lines. That is, those trains must be running pretty damn empty to cut it back to another terminal or outright eliminate it. (Or due to budget cuts, but that's another issue entirely.)

 

On the subject of rerouting lines elsewhere, you have several things you have to consider, including ridership demands, crowd conditions at certain stations and where riders are going and coming. I know I said I wouldn't get specific, but I think this one needs it. When the F was rerouted over to 63rd Street back in '01, it wasn't simply to serve the "newish" line. The F was booted off 53rd Street due to dangerously overcrowded platforms from 23 St-Ely Av (now Court Sq) to 5 Av-53 St. Having both Queens Blvd express trains serving one line in Manhattan was not ideal for years and that was one of the main reasons why 63rd Street was constructed in the first place. With the way 53rd Street is set up now, you not only one Queens Blvd express and local on 53rd Street, but also 6th Avenue proper as well. Flipping the F and M would remove the local option from 53rd Street and force more riders to transfer at Rockefeller Center or Queens Plaza.

 

I'm trying to figure out why everybody wants the and to switch back to their pre-2001 routings. The current operation works fine. The needs to be part-time because Broadway local service is extremely unreliable and Brighton riders prefer the 24/7 one seat to Broadway. If they want a 6th Avenue train, they can transfer at Atlantic or 34th to the , which tends to be pretty reliable as its weekend routing has minimal interaction with other services. The will have to be full-time when Phase 1 opens. Should the run on weekends? Maybe when funding improves. In the 90s, the 's only purpose outside of Brooklyn was to service 63rd Street. That is covered by the now. And don't forget that making new signs and printing new maps costs a fortune.

I've been trying to figure that out for years. It's like some kind of blind nostalgia overrules any type of common sense. I could understand if the problem is DeKalb Av, since there's no 6th Avenue service there on the weekends, but that could be solved by running the D local or by doing what riders have been doing for a decade, transferring at Atlantic Av or 34 St-Herald Sq for Broadway trains. Like I've said before, running the pre-'01 B and D today would either require the return of late night shuttle service on the West End and the elimination of 1/3 Broadway service or the over-serving of the other lines the B, D and Q currently serve.

 

So what is the approximate cost of installing a new switch?

It depends on the location obviously so giving an estimate would be pointless, but I know for damn sure it ain't a couple thousand.

[NewFlyer 230]

Here are the Subway Rerouting Ideas

A: Rush Hour Service to Rockaway Park is replaced by the C

B: full 7 day service to 145th St. Reroute Brooklyn Service down the West End Line to Coney Island

C: extend Rush Hour Service to Rockaway Park

D: reroute Brooklyn Service local down the Brighton Line to Coney Island

E: no changes

F: replace M via the 53rd St Line

G: become Express in Brooklyn down the Culver Line terminating at Bay Parkway during Rush Hours

J: no changes

L: no changes

M: replace F via the 63rd St Line

N: reroute via Montague St Tunnel full time

Q: truncate at Whitehall St at all times

R: no changes

S: no changes

W: restart W service from 57th St to Brighton Beach express in Manhattan and Brooklyn Weekdays only

Z: no changes

1: retstore the 1/9 Skip Stop Service

2: no changes

3: extend Late Night Service to Chambers St

4: implement Express Late Night Service in Manhattan

5: implement Brooklyn service at all times except Late Nights

6: revert Bronx Express Service to Manhattan bound before noon and Bronx Bound after noon

7: revert to all day Express Service

You must be high or something because you really think an all express 7 or Culver Express is going to work. I would not want a 4 car line running express lol that is not happening.

[NewFlyer 230]

That's a stupid answer and you know it. I woke up the same time and caught the same train for close to 5 years straight, leaving extra time for a delay. Now that same train is late every day and after it goes express and dumps me it's so late that even the extra time isn't enough. The MTA had a system that worked and was relatively reliable for years and they broke it cause nobody thought to consider the effects of a fleet change on the line. So, yes, this is the MTA's fault.

 

This isn't UES bitching either. I live nowhere near the UES and wouldn't ever want to. This is a regular commuter who can't understand how something (longer loading times and lower capacity) obvious to me from day one of the R62As on the Lex wasn't thought about with service adjusted accordingly. If you're gonna make everything move slower, change the damn schedule. Honestly, the 62As would be far better on less stop-heavy lines like the 4/5 where loading times aren't as important, but I guess nobody thought of that either.

In a way it's really not the MTA's fault because they were not the ones who built those IRT lines the way they are. The needed new signals and and it's an isolated line so it's getting those converted R142A's. The and can't get them because they are constantly switching lines and terminals. The could get them but they have no use for the LCD displays so the had to get them. Is there some kind of work the can do to increase the speed on the R62A's? Edited March 6, 2014 by NewFlyer 230

[BxM4Woodlawn]

The B has better service than the D when it runs and the B was great down the West End Line Express and the D was great down the Brighton Line Local. and If it aint broke dont fix it! Dont know why they made that change in 2004

[pjbr40]

the b was a great service along the West End Line. i used to take that every friday to the city. After i moved, they said that the Mta wanted the B to be part time because it took over the T line which wasn't around when i grew up. it so dumb to use the letter B as part time. But that the mta way and it aint go ing your way.

[YankeesPwnMets]

So what is the approximate cost of installing a new switch?

You would have to remove support columns between the two tracks. Depending on how critical these columns are, you might have to build additional support to prevent the ceiling from collapsing. You then have to rip out entire sections of track on the express and local, completely suspending Downtown service below West 4th. Once you install the switches and necessary signals, you have to run several tests on the switches to make sure they work. You then have to find a permanent way to support the tunnel ceiling. All of this has to be done below power lines, water mains, and below a densely populated neighborhood.... Soho... sound easy now? One f*ck up and you might be sending thousands of pounds of rock crashing down the tunnel.

 

You have to be 10 years old to think that installing a new crossover would be something done over a weekend with a few thousand bucks....

Edited March 6, 2014 by YankeesPwnMets