BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[Calvin]

Two Old Gen Hybrids were on the M55, however, 4 are left at Quill. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Calvin

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

I've noticed some big inaccuracies in the passenger counts shown on BusTime for various routes. I saw one bus this afternoon pick up 30 people at it's terminal and when it leaves the terminal BusTime has '7 passengers on vehicle' displayed next to the bus #. Another case, I see a bus that's crushloaded pass me by. I pull up BusTime and display the stop this bus was approaching and it's passenger count is listed as 37. This had to be off by a minimum of 50 passengers which is surprising given a simple infared sensor should have hardly any error tolerance.

On another note, it's bad enough that there are Bx12 +SBS buses getting short-turned as it is. What needs to stop happening is the driver of the short turn putting up the local destination signage. When that happens the bus shows up on BusTime as a local which it is not. I don't want riders of the local seeing buses on BusTime and trying to board them when said bus won't make the local stops. 

[Lawrence St]

There really needs to be set guidelines on eliminating certain bus trips that continue to fall under a certain threshold when it comes to usage.

For example, some of the SIM3c trips.

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

There really needs to be set guidelines on eliminating certain bus trips that continue to fall under a certain threshold when it comes to usage.

For example, some of the SIM3c trips.

Before they do that, they need to start following their own loading guidelines... But of course, that involves adding trips to rectify matters instead of deleting them....

[Lawrence St]

42 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Before they do that, they need to start following their own loading guidelines... But of course, that involves adding trips to rectify matters instead of deleting them....

Yeah that's why nothing ever gets done at this agency. They set their own rules but then don't follow them...

[R10 2952]

43 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Yeah that's why nothing ever gets done at this agency. They set their own rules but then don't follow them...

More like the higher-ups set rules for everybody else to follow, and a different set of rules for themselves.  Just like any mismanaged, bloated, out-of-touch organization. 

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

There really needs to be set guidelines on eliminating certain bus trips that continue to fall under a certain threshold when it comes to usage.

For example, some of the SIM3c trips.

That 3C can be such a waste at times, especially when everything leaves Central Park at the same time off peak. 3Cs tend to have 3-7 people max. Having the 1C, 3C, and 33C all stopping along Narrows Off Peak is a big waste. 

 

Idk but something needs to skip Narrows and something needs to terminate Downtown. 

[NBTA]

56 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

That 3C can be such a waste at times, especially when everything leaves Central Park at the same time off peak. 3Cs tend to have 3-7 people max. Having the 1C, 3C, and 33C all stopping along Narrows Off Peak is a big waste. 

 

Idk but something needs to skip Narrows and something needs to terminate Downtown. 

3C is probably well equipped for that.

Terminate at Union Square, skip Narrows entirely.

Edited December 18, 2021 by NBTA

[B35 via Church]

4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Yeah that's why nothing ever gets done at this agency. They set their own rules but then don't follow them...

All that matters is that "it's in black & white".... Get it in black & white... You don't want to be caught with your pants down when shit goes seriously amiss...

Once you got that covered, man, the (implementation of) small details only matter when it comes time to save money... Anything else in between, don't make me laugh - ESPECIALLY when it comes to this f***ing agency....

When you have as many layers of mgmt. that the MTA has, you're going to get incompetency... It is inevitable...

3 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

More like the higher-ups set rules for everybody else to follow, and a different set of rules for themselves.  Just like any mismanaged, bloated, out-of-touch organization. 

If by a different set of rules for themselves, you mean no rules at all, then yes.... I don't doubt for a second that a marching of a beat to their own drums is very much apparent...

Right after I read the first statement, I literally said aloud "just like any other company" - Then I read your second statement.

[JAzumah]

3 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Idk but something needs to skip Narrows and something needs to terminate Downtown. 

Downtown only is the kiss of death outside of rush hours.

[JAzumah]

On 12/16/2021 at 12:26 AM, Lil 57 said:

Just took the Sim23 today for the first (and probably last time I take it when it’s operated by academy) and instead of the typical van-hools that have metro card readers we got an NJT contracted bus (bus was free due to this). The sign even said X23 on it, just wondering how rare it is to have non metrocard farebox equipped buses running  on the Sim23/24 

Very rare. However, if the closest fill-in bus is better than losing the entire trip, it makes sense to switch around buses to maintain the schedule.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

1 hour ago, JAzumah said:

Downtown only is the kiss of death outside of rush hours.

Yeah i was chatting when I said that. But seriously the SIM33C needs to skip Narrows. Have the 3C serve so it can gain additional riders. Gannon and Richmond are already heavy enough for the 33C off peak. It'll help balance the loads. 

 

Its funny because the 33C sign isn't even programmed to say "via Narrows Rd". Only the SIM3C has that. 

[Lawrence St]

On 12/16/2021 at 12:26 AM, Lil 57 said:

Just took the Sim23 today for the first (and probably last time I take it when it’s operated by academy) and instead of the typical van-hools that have metro card readers we got an NJT contracted bus (bus was free due to this). The sign even said X23 on it, just wondering how rare it is to have non metrocard farebox equipped buses running  on the Sim23/24 

NJT goes crazy when their buses are being used for anything other then NJT routes, and I don't blame them.

[Cait Sith]

6 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

NJT goes crazy when their buses are being used for anything other then NJT routes, and I don't blame them.

Not like how they used to be before.

State buses have been used on LIRR shuttles, charters, ect. Hell, when Saddle River was still operating NJT contracted routes, their 17000s operated on GREYHOUND's NYC/AC/Philadelphia service!

[paulrivera]

23 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Not like how they used to be before.

State buses have been used on LIRR shuttles, charters, ect. Hell, when Saddle River was still operating NJT contracted routes, their 17000s operated on GREYHOUND's NYC/AC/Philadelphia service!

My uncle drove for Academy and I'd go with him to Atlantic City from time to time. Most of the time he'd have one of the state owned 8000s, and this was over 10 years ago!

[JAzumah]

56 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

NJT goes crazy when their buses are being used for anything other then NJT routes, and I don't blame them.

Because the Feds go crazy about it. They want their buses doing public transit for NJ. Having said that, charters have been offsetting line run cash losses for years, so the balancing act is tricky.
 

48 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

State buses have been used on LIRR shuttles, charters, ect. Hell, when Saddle River was still operating NJT contracted routes, their 17000s operated on GREYHOUND's NYC/AC/Philadelphia service!

Which is technically public transit according to the Feds. NJT uses their buses for the same corridors lol.

 

21 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

My uncle drove for Academy and I'd go with him to Atlantic City from time to time. Most of the time he'd have one of the state owned 8000s, and this was over 10 years ago!

This was an authorized use.

[Around the Horn]

54 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

State buses have been used on LIRR shuttles, charters, ect. Hell, when Saddle River was still operating NJT contracted routes, their 17000s operated on GREYHOUND's NYC/AC/Philadelphia service!

Heck, my high school trip from the Poconos back to NYC had 8000s... I don't think anyone else on that trip batted an eyelid lol

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

53 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

Heck, my high school trip from the Poconos back to NYC had 8000s... I don't think anyone else on that trip batted an eyelid lol

The blue and white 89xx Academy MCI buses? Man I'm having flashbacks. 

[Mtatransit]

RANT BEGINS

I was on the S74 today, out of the 15 passengers on the bus I was the only one who paid the fare. And mind you this wasn't just in poorer neighborhoods, this was a trip starting from Bricktown, and not ONE paid the fare. Boy do I feel like an idiot

Absolutely maddening.

I am honestly surprised when the MTA mentioned that only 20% of SI local riders don't pay their fare, that number should be at least 50%.

 

And when you complain to the MTA you get this generic response

Please be advised that if a customer boards an MTA New York City Transit bus or an MTA Bus Company bus without paying a fare with a MetroCard or coins, bus operators are required to inform the customer that the fare is $2.75 (or $6.75 for express buses). If the customer refuses to pay or ignores the bus operator and takes a seat, the bus operator is not required to take any further action to attempt to collect the fare.

While this may seem unfair to honest, fare-paying customers already on board, we must emphasize that bus operators are not law-enforcement officers and are not expected to take personal risks to collect fares. If a customer does not pay a fare, the bus operator presses a button on the farebox to register that fact. This creates a statistical record which is shared with the New York City Police Department to track and combat fare-evasion trends.

As such, we have forwarded your report to the NYPD Transit Bureau for their review and appropriate action.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

 

Geez that certainly assure riders that they will take appropriate action... no wonder why more and more people don't pay. 

NYPD can board any bus in SI in any direction, at anytime of the day and I guarantee they could give out half a bus load of tickets.

Not only that, many fare evaders are traveling only a couple of stops down the line, completely wasting my time. You mean to tell me you couldn't walk 4 blocks?

 

 

We can not continue to allow this causal fare beating to continue. I can guarantee I am not the only one to think, if no one else pays why should I? This will just lead to a sloe decline in the fare paying passengers.

I am hoping all door boarding comes quicker. SI and the Bronx should be the first to have it. 

 

 

[SoSpectacular]

10 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

RANT BEGINS

I was on the S74 today, out of the 15 passengers on the bus I was the only one who paid the fare. And mind you this wasn't just in poorer neighborhoods, this was a trip starting from Bricktown, and not ONE paid the fare. Boy do I feel like an idiot

Absolutely maddening.

I am honestly surprised when the MTA mentioned that only 20% of SI local riders don't pay their fare, that number should be at least 50%.

 

And when you complain to the MTA you get this generic response

Please be advised that if a customer boards an MTA New York City Transit bus or an MTA Bus Company bus without paying a fare with a MetroCard or coins, bus operators are required to inform the customer that the fare is $2.75 (or $6.75 for express buses). If the customer refuses to pay or ignores the bus operator and takes a seat, the bus operator is not required to take any further action to attempt to collect the fare.

While this may seem unfair to honest, fare-paying customers already on board, we must emphasize that bus operators are not law-enforcement officers and are not expected to take personal risks to collect fares. If a customer does not pay a fare, the bus operator presses a button on the farebox to register that fact. This creates a statistical record which is shared with the New York City Police Department to track and combat fare-evasion trends.

As such, we have forwarded your report to the NYPD Transit Bureau for their review and appropriate action.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

 

Geez that certainly assure riders that they will take appropriate action... no wonder why more and more people don't pay. 

NYPD can board any bus in SI in any direction, at anytime of the day and I guarantee they could give out half a bus load of tickets.

Not only that, many fare evaders are traveling only a couple of stops down the line, completely wasting my time. You mean to tell me you couldn't walk 4 blocks?

 

 

We can not continue to allow this causal fare beating to continue. I can guarantee I am not the only one to think, if no one else pays why should I? This will just lead to a sloe decline in the fare paying passengers.

I am hoping all door boarding comes quicker. SI and the Bronx should be the first to have it. 

 

 

It's all bark and no bite.

The bite was lost a long time ago. 

[Lawrence St]

7 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

RANT BEGINS

I was on the S74 today, out of the 15 passengers on the bus I was the only one who paid the fare. And mind you this wasn't just in poorer neighborhoods, this was a trip starting from Bricktown, and not ONE paid the fare. Boy do I feel like an idiot

Absolutely maddening.

I am honestly surprised when the MTA mentioned that only 20% of SI local riders don't pay their fare, that number should be at least 50%.

 

And when you complain to the MTA you get this generic response

Please be advised that if a customer boards an MTA New York City Transit bus or an MTA Bus Company bus without paying a fare with a MetroCard or coins, bus operators are required to inform the customer that the fare is $2.75 (or $6.75 for express buses). If the customer refuses to pay or ignores the bus operator and takes a seat, the bus operator is not required to take any further action to attempt to collect the fare.

While this may seem unfair to honest, fare-paying customers already on board, we must emphasize that bus operators are not law-enforcement officers and are not expected to take personal risks to collect fares. If a customer does not pay a fare, the bus operator presses a button on the farebox to register that fact. This creates a statistical record which is shared with the New York City Police Department to track and combat fare-evasion trends.

As such, we have forwarded your report to the NYPD Transit Bureau for their review and appropriate action.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

 

Geez that certainly assure riders that they will take appropriate action... no wonder why more and more people don't pay. 

NYPD can board any bus in SI in any direction, at anytime of the day and I guarantee they could give out half a bus load of tickets.

Not only that, many fare evaders are traveling only a couple of stops down the line, completely wasting my time. You mean to tell me you couldn't walk 4 blocks?

 

 

We can not continue to allow this causal fare beating to continue. I can guarantee I am not the only one to think, if no one else pays why should I? This will just lead to a sloe decline in the fare paying passengers.

I am hoping all door boarding comes quicker. SI and the Bronx should be the first to have it. 

 

 

You can blame the folks who want to blame/taunt our cops for doing their jobs.

[SoSpectacular]

19 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

You can blame the folks who want to blame/taunt our cops for doing their jobs.

Not like they enforced the fare on the buses before that... That was more common in the subways when they'd actually dress in plainclothes and ticket turnstile hoppers

[Mtatransit]

4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

You can blame the folks who want to blame/taunt our cops for doing their jobs.

Agree with you there, and those same people will make every excuse under the roof on why fare beating is justified. (people can't afford the fare, MTA is inefficient, its a drop in the bucket for the MTA, service is crap) 

Even if the service is as reliable and clean as in Japan, those people will continue not to pay because of entitlement 

3 hours ago, SoSpectacular said:

Not like they enforced the fare on the buses before that... That was more common in the subways when they'd actually dress in plainclothes and ticket turnstile hoppers

Its not like the police is doing a good job these days even in the subways. They all crowd together in groups. I seen a couple of people hop RIGHT IN FRONT of them and apparently nothing was done because they weren't attentive.

At 49th Street  while waiting 12 minutes for the N I witnessed more than 30 people either jumping the fare or going through the gates

This agency seen like it gave up on collecting its fare long ago, if I wasn't a transit fan, I probably would've reached the same conclusion as some other commuters, where it would be more economically feasible to not pay. The risk/reward simply favors the reward here.

 

I feel like the will collect its fare better if we just converted the entire system to one large proof of payment system (subway, buses, railroad). People can choose to continue to not pay but at least then you are taking a risk for doing so

 

For the next  fare increase hearing, I better not hear them crying poverty again, when the agency can not collect half its fare on Staten Island, and probably the same rates in the Bronx

They want to increase revenue, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. At this point it would be easier for the operator, if the F5 button is automatically triggered for every passenger enter through the bus front or back and at the end of the day subtract the actual fares paid. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Mtatransit

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

17 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

RANT BEGINS

I was on the S74 today, out of the 15 passengers on the bus I was the only one who paid the fare. And mind you this wasn't just in poorer neighborhoods, this was a trip starting from Bricktown, and not ONE paid the fare. Boy do I feel like an idiot

Absolutely maddening.

I am honestly surprised when the MTA mentioned that only 20% of SI local riders don't pay their fare, that number should be at least 50%.

 

And when you complain to the MTA you get this generic response

Please be advised that if a customer boards an MTA New York City Transit bus or an MTA Bus Company bus without paying a fare with a MetroCard or coins, bus operators are required to inform the customer that the fare is $2.75 (or $6.75 for express buses). If the customer refuses to pay or ignores the bus operator and takes a seat, the bus operator is not required to take any further action to attempt to collect the fare.

While this may seem unfair to honest, fare-paying customers already on board, we must emphasize that bus operators are not law-enforcement officers and are not expected to take personal risks to collect fares. If a customer does not pay a fare, the bus operator presses a button on the farebox to register that fact. This creates a statistical record which is shared with the New York City Police Department to track and combat fare-evasion trends.

As such, we have forwarded your report to the NYPD Transit Bureau for their review and appropriate action.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

 

Geez that certainly assure riders that they will take appropriate action... no wonder why more and more people don't pay. 

NYPD can board any bus in SI in any direction, at anytime of the day and I guarantee they could give out half a bus load of tickets.

Not only that, many fare evaders are traveling only a couple of stops down the line, completely wasting my time. You mean to tell me you couldn't walk 4 blocks?

 

 

We can not continue to allow this causal fare beating to continue. I can guarantee I am not the only one to think, if no one else pays why should I? This will just lead to a sloe decline in the fare paying passengers.

I am hoping all door boarding comes quicker. SI and the Bronx should be the first to have it. 

 

 

All the MTA needs to do is get like 50 plain clothes transit cops and have them ride the buses with the drivers throughout the route. One cop per bus. Anyone that gets on and doesn't pay, just kick them off and keep the bus moving. Then when it's time for the cop to finish their shift they'll ticket the next person that doesn't pay. Once people see that and its CONSISTENT enforcement, I betcha the farebeating will significantly decrease. 

[Calvin]

The new Prevosts that are in the process of delivery are placed on hold. This is because of cramping in the seating area for passengers, finding a way to have more space on the bus. 

https://www.thecity.nyc/2021/12/19/22840484/new-mta-express-bus-rollout-stalled-by-leg-room-complaints

Edited December 20, 2021 by Calvin