Today is the first anniversary of the devastating bus cuts

[Shortline Bus]

I'm glad you enjoy the column. It's quite a challenge trying to come up with something new and different each week. No problem with anything you said in this post. I fully agree with you.

 

For something like weekend(that the only time in NYC there should ever be hourly service on a handful of lower used bus routes only)routes that were totally canned or lost weekend service i.e former B23,B24, B37 in Brooklyn

Q76, Q79(Saturdays only)in Queens being example all could have been reduced to 60-minute headways as a last restort before putting the low used routes out for good.

[BrooklynBus]

For something like weekend(that the only time in NYC there should ever be hourly service on a handful of lower used bus routes only)routes that were totally canned or lost weekend service i.e former B23,B24, B37 in Brooklyn

Q76, Q79(Saturdays only)in Queens being example all could have been reduced to 60-minute headways as a last restort before putting the low used routes out for good.

 

But if you ask the MTA why they didn't do that, they would cite the Service Guidelines why they couldn't. As I said the only time they use the guidelines is for justification to cutting routes, never to expand service.

[checkmatechamp13]

For something like weekend(that the only time in NYC there should ever be hourly service on a handful of lower used bus routes only)routes that were totally canned or lost weekend service i.e former B23,B24, B37 in Brooklyn

Q76, Q79(Saturdays only)in Queens being example all could have been reduced to 60-minute headways as a last restort before putting the low used routes out for good.

 

The B24 I would try to restructure, and I don't think the B23 and B37 should've stayed, to be honest. The Q76 and Q79 I would definitely try to keep, even under 60 minute headways (though the Q76 shouldn't have been touched in any way)

 

But if you ask the MTA why they didn't do that, they would cite the Service Guidelines why they couldn't. As I said the only time they use the guidelines is for justification to cutting routes, never to expand service.

 

Exactly. They violated their own guidelines when they eliminated the Q76 and Q79 (or if not, they came pretty damn close). Why bother having guidelines if they aren't going to be followed?

[RailBus63]

For something like weekend(that the only time in NYC there should ever be hourly service on a handful of lower used bus routes only)routes that were totally canned or lost weekend service i.e former B23,B24, B37 in Brooklyn

Q76, Q79(Saturdays only)in Queens being example all could have been reduced to 60-minute headways as a last restort before putting the low used routes out for good.

 

Middays could also be a candidate for hourly service, if the ridership does not justify more frequent service.

[qjtransitmaster]

Middays could also be a candidate for hourly service, if the ridership does not justify more frequent service.

 

I would have merged B12 with B23 select runs as a last resort. And B24 break em up into 2 segments one to greenpoint merges with Q49 the other well don't know. B37 is useless!!!! don't beat the dead horse!!!!

 

B24 try maybe one segment merge with a few Q33 trips the greenpoint and the williamsburg segment merge with Q49 select trips. Why can't Q77 and 76 merge into a crosstown route and let ppl transfer for jamacia service. Can't Q79 be replaced by Q72 via LIE to little neck parkway then floral park and elmont(if possible). Then Q30 to LIRR station. Cause the Q79 was very convenient when it came to timed transfers it met the N20 and several other east west buses. It should have been called a queens crosstown

[Q101 E Midtown]

I would have merged B12 with B23 select runs as a last resort. And B24 break em up into 2 segments one to greenpoint merges with Q49 the other well don't know. B37 is useless!!!! don't beat the dead horse!!!!

 

B24 try maybe one segment merge with a few Q33 trips the greenpoint and the williamsburg segment merge with Q49 select trips. Why can't Q77 and 76 merge into a crosstown route and let ppl transfer for jamacia service. Can't Q79 be replaced by Q72 via LIE to little neck parkway then floral park and elmont(if possible). Then Q30 to LIRR station. Cause the Q79 was very convenient when it came to timed transfers it met the N20 and several other east west buses. It should have been called a queens crosstown

 

A better alternative might be to reroute the B103 via Courtelyou Rd and McDonald Av with added stops at the (B)/(Q), CI Av, Ocean Parkway, and the B67/B69 terminal. The 16 Av section of the B23 can be service by select B67 trips if necessary.

 

That Q72 idea makes no sense. Also, what if someone from F. Lewis needs to transfer to the train?

[Dynamic Vaudeville]

I would have merged B12 with B23 select runs as a last resort. And B24 break em up into 2 segments one to greenpoint merges with Q49 the other well don't know. B37 is useless!!!! don't beat the dead horse!!!!

 

B24 try maybe one segment merge with a few Q33 trips the greenpoint and the williamsburg segment merge with Q49 select trips. Why can't Q77 and 76 merge into a crosstown route and let ppl transfer for jamacia service. Can't Q79 be replaced by Q72 via LIE to little neck parkway then floral park and elmont(if possible). Then Q30 to LIRR station. Cause the Q79 was very convenient when it came to timed transfers it met the N20 and several other east west buses. It should have been called a queens crosstown

 

Maybe it would be better if you stopped posting.

 

1. What is with you and the B24 and extending the Q33? FYI the Q49 goes nowhere near the B24; look at a map before anything.

 

2. The purpose of the Q76 and Q77 both serving Jamaica is so that riders in northeast and southeast Queens, respectively, have a one-seat ride to a transit hub where they can transfer to the train to Manhattan. Having a route going from College Point all the way down to Springfield Gardens (which is what I think you're implying, and forcing people to get off at Hillside for Jamaica) is absolutely useless and makes no sense.

 

3. The Q72 idea I -- I honestly don't know whether to laugh at your stupidity or not.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Maybe it would be better if you stopped posting.

 

1. What is with you and the B24 and extending the Q33? FYI the Q49 goes nowhere near the B24; look at a map before anything.

 

2. The purpose of the Q76 and Q77 both serving Jamaica is so that riders in northeast and southeast Queens, respectively, have a one-seat ride to a transit hub where they can transfer to the train to Manhattan. Having a route going from College Point all the way down to Springfield Gardens (which is what I think you're implying, and forcing people to get off at Hillside for Jamaica) is absolutely useless and makes no sense.

 

3. The Q72 idea I -- I honestly don't know whether to laugh at your stupidity or not.

 

Hey let the man propose his ideas for his beloved "rtes" as he calls them. lol

[via White Plains Road]

Maybe it would be better if you stopped posting.

 

1. What is with you and the B24 and extending the Q33? FYI the Q49 goes nowhere near the B24; look at a map before anything.

 

2. The purpose of the Q76 and Q77 both serving Jamaica is so that riders in northeast and southeast Queens, respectively, have a one-seat ride to a transit hub where they can transfer to the train to Manhattan. Having a route going from College Point all the way down to Springfield Gardens (which is what I think you're implying, and forcing people to get off at Hillside for Jamaica) is absolutely useless and makes no sense.

 

3. The Q72 idea I -- I honestly don't know whether to laugh at your stupidity or not.

 

IAWTP 100000000% especially with the one b4 the numbered statements!

[qjtransitmaster]

IAWTP 100000000% especially with the one b4 the numbered statements!

 

I meant via queens blvd with limited stops

[qjtransitmaster]

Maybe it would be better if you stopped posting.

 

1. What is with you and the B24 and extending the Q33? FYI the Q49 goes nowhere near the B24; look at a map before anything.

 

2. The purpose of the Q76 and Q77 both serving Jamaica is so that riders in northeast and southeast Queens, respectively, have a one-seat ride to a transit hub where they can transfer to the train to Manhattan. Having a route going from College Point all the way down to Springfield Gardens (which is what I think you're implying, and forcing people to get off at Hillside for Jamaica) is absolutely useless and makes no sense.

 

3. The Q72 idea I -- I honestly don't know whether to laugh at your stupidity or not. Dropped

I dropped the Q72 idea cause junction blvd is a disaster. However the one seat ride on Q77 and 76 is not getting enough ridership plus there is a huge amount of traffic that travels crosstown on that corridor. I know the Q49 is nowhere near the B24 now look at queens blvd. It can take a short route through the area to replace the B24 now try to be creative cause clearly ur not its sad. Plus How many ppl in floral park area go towards the airport area??? if enough Q79 could become a regional rte with limited stops on LIE service rd for transfers. Plus Q33 due to slow speed was why I said Limited trips or just add service to greenpoint ave.

[qjtransitmaster]

A better alternative might be to reroute the B103 via Courtelyou Rd and McDonald Av with added stops at the (B)/(Q), CI Av, Ocean Parkway, and the B67/B69 terminal. The 16 Av section of the B23 can be service by select B67 trips if necessary.

 

That Q72 idea makes no sense. Also, what if someone from F. Lewis needs to transfer to the train?

 

I dropped the Q72 idea I admit it would be better to use a regional rte for that cause the travel patterns of those along Q79 is long distance style NOT short distance hence why Q79 failed it wasn't compatible with the travel needs of ppl living there who used the LIE to reach NW queens or the bronx!!!!!!! cause when you look at it in a way it is faster to drive for trips like that to a certain extent. The limited stop rtes are quick and need to be better coordinated for long distance ppl that is part of the reason why LIE is a parking lot sometimes

 

The ppl who want the F train well bus service on hillside is so frequent that mostly wouldn't be much of an issue. Also most ppl who use the subway have an unlimited metrocard eliminating the transfer problem. Also a crosstown rte multiplies travel options one who wants an express bus can use QM6 if QM6 is rerouted to run super express via LIE and 188th street the QM1 can eliminate it's off peak service and QM5 will have union tpk to itself upto 188th street then QM6 has the rest making QM6 faster for manhattan bound ppl if Those on F lewis have express bus card the QM6's faster route would help alot.

[qjtransitmaster]

Maybe it would be better if you stopped posting.

 

1. What is with you and the B24 and extending the Q33? FYI the Q49 goes nowhere near the B24; look at a map before anything.

 

2. The purpose of the Q76 and Q77 both serving Jamaica is so that riders in northeast and southeast Queens, respectively, have a one-seat ride to a transit hub where they can transfer to the train to Manhattan. Having a route going from College Point all the way down to Springfield Gardens (which is what I think you're implying, and forcing people to get off at Hillside for Jamaica) is absolutely useless and makes no sense.

 

3. The Q72 idea I -- I honestly don't know whether to laugh at your stupidity or not.

It would be better if you went to go F OFF or STFU:cool: trash

[BrooklynBus]

The B24 I would try to restructure, and I don't think the B23 and B37 should've stayed, to be honest.

 

I never saw the numbers from the B37 so I never formed an opinion if it should have stayed or not. However, the B23 definitely could have stayed if it was restructured. The existing route was useless. There was no reason for anyone to take it unless one of his trip ends were near 16th Avenue and he was making a short trip. Everyone using the B23 could have also taken the B8 with a longer walk and better headways. If you lived on 17th Avenue which route would you have chosen? The route needed to be split at McDonald with the two portions serving areas not served by the B8. Also, there needed to be a connection to another east west route at Flatbush Avenue, either the B8 or B35, for people wanting to travel further east. It was a poorly designed route from the first day it ever operated and was never a successful route.

[checkmatechamp13]

I never saw the numbers from the B37 so I never formed an opinion if it should have stayed or not. However, the B23 definitely could have stayed if it was restructured. The existing route was useless. There was no reason for anyone to take it unless one of his trip ends were near 16th Avenue and he was making a short trip. Everyone using the B23 could have also taken the B8 with a longer walk and better headways. If you lived on 17th Avenue which route would you have chosen? The route needed to be split at McDonald with the two portions serving areas not served by the B8. Also, there needed to be a connection to another east west route at Flatbush Avenue, either the B8 or B35, for people wanting to travel further east. It was a poorly designed route from the first day it ever operated and was never a successful route.

 

Good points about the B23.

 

If you are interested in the numbers, here are the numbers for the B37:

Weekday: 3,280 passengers at $2.79 per passenger

Weekend: 3,170 passengers at $3.95 per passenger

 

There isn't any data on passengers north of Bay Ridge Avenue, but the MTA said that 1,600 weekday passengers and 1,800 weekend passengers (for the B70 along 7th Avenue) would have to walk up to five minutes to the B16 or B63.

 

I definitely wouldn't have cut the B8 back to the VA Hospital. If anything, I would've kept the B8 the same and cut the B70 back to 101st Street (rather than looping back up to serve the VA Hospital). That way, B8 riders still keep their connection to the SI buses, as well as the train and B63 bus.

 

By the way, do you know if buses are still allowed inside Fort Hamilton. Because if that were the case, I would have the B70 travel through Fort Hamilton (the way the B8 used to) and terminate at the VA Hospital. That way, it is a better situation for B70 riders from Sunset Park trying to get to the hospital, since it takes a more direct route rather than looping around Bay Ridge (though it still isn't as ideal as the old route)

[BrooklynBus]

Good points about the B23.

 

If you are interested in the numbers, here are the numbers for the B37:

Weekday: 3,280 passengers at $2.79 per passenger

Weekend: 3,170 passengers at $3.95 per passenger

 

There isn't any data on passengers north of Bay Ridge Avenue, but the MTA said that 1,600 weekday passengers and 1,800 weekend passengers (for the B70 along 7th Avenue) would have to walk up to five minutes to the B16 or B63.

 

I definitely wouldn't have cut the B8 back to the VA Hospital. If anything, I would've kept the B8 the same and cut the B70 back to 101st Street (rather than looping back up to serve the VA Hospital). That way, B8 riders still keep their connection to the SI buses, as well as the train and B63 bus.

 

By the way, do you know if buses are still allowed inside Fort Hamilton. Because if that were the case, I would have the B70 travel through Fort Hamilton (the way the B8 used to) and terminate at the VA Hospital. That way, it is a better situation for B70 riders from Sunset Park trying to get to the hospital, since it takes a more direct route rather than looping around Bay Ridge (though it still isn't as ideal as the old route)

 

What do you mean, there is no data for passengers north of Bay Ridge Avenue. That is the part that was eliminated. This is what I mean about the planning process not being transparent. How can someone make an intelligent decision if the route was needed or not when they won't release the data for you to make a determination?

 

As far as Fort Hamilton, I believe for security reasons, travel trough the Fort was banned years ago.

[LRG]

What a thread so far.

 

The only thing I'm even concerned about is the resurrection of the X37 and X38 routes which will take place July 5th. That was a huge mistake the MTA made, and had no business doing. However, routes like the X32, a route that only had three-four runs in each direction and was expensive to operate, does NOT need to return.

[B35 via Church]

A better alternative might be to reroute the B103 via Courtelyou Rd and McDonald Av with added stops at the (B)/(Q), CI Av, Ocean Parkway, and the B67/B69 terminal. The 16 Av section of the B23 can be service by select B67 trips if necessary.

 

That Q72 idea makes no sense. Also, what if someone from F. Lewis needs to transfer to the train?

 

don't entertain his dribble.....

 

 

The B24 I would try to restructure, and I don't think the B23 and B37 should've stayed, to be honest. The Q76 and Q79 I would definitely try to keep, even under 60 minute headways (though the Q76 shouldn't have been touched in any way)

 

Exactly. They violated their own guidelines when they eliminated the Q76 and Q79 (or if not, they came pretty damn close). Why bother having guidelines if they aren't going to be followed?

 

I understand you can't save every chicken in the coop, but the MTA makes their judgments on sheer numbers & don't even bother lookin into WHY a lot of these routes underperform to the level that they do; or, doesn't carry as much as your average route does....

 

like I said before:

1) w/ the B71, it was surrounded by better transit options on each half of the route.... that route was an afterthought...

 

2) w/ the B23, it really didn't... cater to anyone (as far as commuting goes)...

it was a route you took to cut down on walking distance...

 

i.e, walkin along cortelyou rd... ahh look, a bus, I'll take it on over to the subway station... or on over to cortelyou rd....

 

^^ if you see what folks do that live along/around cortelyou b/w CI & flatbush av, you'd come to notice that folks were very content with walking (when the B23 was around, I'm referring to).... that's just on that half of the route....

 

the other end of the route, the B23 was an afterthought... why? b/c that too was surrounded by better options (B9, B11)... both of those routes better aided in taking the borough park folks where they need to get to... I pay careful attention to ridership habits....

 

3) w/ the B37, I seriously do believe it was a route that lost w/e importance it had.... too many people got accustomed to either walking to 4th av, or waiting for the east/west buses that the 37 connected with.... I don't know what could have been done to save that route....

 

4) the Q79 was not a "walkable" route like the B23 was, or as much an afterthought like the B71 was... granted it wadn't a whole heap of people that took it, but the route served an entire pocket of NE Queens that now has squat for north/south service.... it's the perfect route to have kept around for, at the very least, hourly headways....

 

5) the Q74 carried - flat out.... MTA can believe what it wants... When you see how the Q46 (and Q44) continually carries, to outright force people to endure those never ending crowds, is nothin short of being frugal.... I say, if you have that route trimmed to as high as 20 min headways throughout the day, I think buses would have been absolutely crushloaded.... ridership (much like the B51) was GROWING...

 

6) the B51, at worst, should've been a rush hour only route @ 15-20 min headways.... There was too much service provided on it, where/when people weren't riding it.... this is another thing that irks me w/ the MTA; their underhanded ways of going about matters....

 

7) the B39, at worst, should've ran under 20-30 min headways, all day.... the notion that riders (@ WBP) were xferring to the subway moreover than taking the bus when it was there, is BS....

 

 

 

Oh, and they have guidelines... so they can fool the unknowing riding public to get them to believe that their cuts are justified.... so it won't look like they're getting rid of service "just because".... it's something they can hide behind as a reasoning...

 

....no matter how falsified it is, as it pertains to a certain route.

and that's that !

[Gotham Bus Co.]

2. The purpose of the Q76 and Q77 both serving Jamaica is so that riders in northeast and southeast Queens, respectively, have a one-seat ride to a transit hub where they can transfer to the train to Manhattan. Having a route going from College Point all the way down to Springfield Gardens (which is what I think you're implying, and forcing people to get off at Hillside for Jamaica) is absolutely useless and makes no sense.

 

A "Francis Lewis Crosstown" route (Q78?) might work on weekdays to accommodate students who now ride the Q76 and Q77 and transfer between them, but it would have to be superimposed over the existing Q76 and Q77. In a bad budget climate, that's not likely.

 

The "crosstown" idea would NOT work as a full-time replacement for the Q76 and Q77 unless the subway ran further east on Hillside (as it was originally supposed to according to the 1929 plans). Since that's not about to happen, the north and south portions really must be kept separate, with both meeting the subway at 179th.

[qjtransitmaster]

don't entertain his dribble.....

 

 

 

 

I understand you can't save every chicken in the coop, but the MTA makes their judgments on sheer numbers & don't even bother lookin into WHY a lot of these routes underperform to the level that they do; or, doesn't carry as much as your average route does....

 

like I said before:

1) w/ the B71, it was surrounded by better transit options on each half of the route.... that route was an afterthought...

 

2) w/ the B23, it really didn't... cater to anyone (as far as commuting goes)...

it was a route you took to cut down on walking distance...

 

i.e, walkin along cortelyou rd... ahh look, a bus, I'll take it on over to the subway station... or on over to cortelyou rd....

 

^^ if you see what folks do that live along/around cortelyou b/w CI & flatbush av, you'd come to notice that folks were very content with walking (when the B23 was around, I'm referring to).... that's just on that half of the route....

 

the other end of the route, the B23 was an afterthought... why? b/c that too was surrounded by better options (B9, B11)... both of those routes better aided in taking the borough park folks where they need to get to... I pay careful attention to ridership habits....

 

3) w/ the B37, I seriously do believe it was a route that lost w/e importance it had.... too many people got accustomed to either walking to 4th av, or waiting for the east/west buses that the 37 connected with.... I don't know what could have been done to save that route....

 

4) the Q79 was not a "walkable" route like the B23 was, or as much an afterthought like the B71 was... granted it wadn't a whole heap of people that took it, but the route served an entire pocket of NE Queens that now has squat for north/south service.... it's the perfect route to have kept around for, at the very least, hourly headways....

 

5) the Q74 carried - flat out.... MTA can believe what it wants... When you see how the Q46 (and Q44) continually carries, to outright force people to endure those never ending crowds, is nothin short of being frugal.... I say, if you have that route trimmed to as high as 20 min headways throughout the day, I think buses would have been absolutely crushloaded.... ridership (much like the B51) was GROWING...

 

6) the B51, at worst, should've been a rush hour only route @ 15-20 min headways.... There was too much service provided on it, where/when people weren't riding it.... this is another thing that irks me w/ the MTA; their underhanded ways of going about matters....

 

7) the B39, at worst, should've ran under 20-30 min headways, all day.... the notion that riders (@ WBP) were xferring to the subway moreover than taking the bus when it was there, is BS....

 

 

 

Oh, and they have guidelines... so they can fool the unknowing riding public to get them to believe that their cuts are justified.... so it won't look like they're getting rid of service "just because".... it's something they can hide behind as a reasoning...

 

....no matter how falsified it is, as it pertains to a certain route.

and that's that !

 

WOW a duplicate route that carried???? now that's major!!!! If Q74 was like that why was it cut it could have merged with the Q15 or something like that.?

[Forest Glen]

I never thought I'd say this to you (Gotham), but IAWTP.

[Forest Glen]

What a thread so far.

 

The only thing I'm even concerned about is the resurrection of the X37 and X38 routes which will take place July 5th. That was a huge mistake the MTA made, and had no business doing.

 

correct

 

However, routes like the X32, a route that only had three-four runs in each direction and was expensive to operate, does NOT need to return.

 

incorrect

[qjtransitmaster]

A "Francis Lewis Crosstown" route (Q78?) might work on weekdays to accommodate students who now ride the Q76 and Q77 and transfer between them, but it would have to be superimposed over the existing Q76 and Q77. In a bad budget climate, that's not likely.

 

The "crosstown" idea would NOT work as a full-time replacement for the Q76 and Q77 unless the subway ran further east on Hillside (as it was originally supposed to according to the 1929 plans). Since that's not about to happen, the north and south portions really must be kept separate, with both meeting the subway at 179th.

 

Yes the crosstown was my idea actually But with hillside ave buses as frequent as they are the Q76 and 77 are basically duplicates on hillside. I think the crosstown would get some ppl out of their cars as well as carry more than the Q76 and 77.

[qjtransitmaster]

correct

 

 

 

incorrect

 

how so?? did the X32 carry??? should it have been enhanced???

[Forest Glen]

The X32 enabled kids from Queens to attend one of the best high schools in the nation. I'm not going to repeat the story about me being accepted to Science and not going there due to the distance, but a kid who passed the test should be able to attend that school.