Amtrak7 Posted August 9, 2011 Share #1 Posted August 9, 2011 After seeing the B24 thread, I thought about the Q21. I don't think it really is necessary, it overlaps the Q11 for most of its trip and it makes local stops in Broad Channel, which doesn't really need LTD service. How about this? -Rename all Q21 trips Q11; no Rockaways service -Q53 make local stops south of 160 Av. -Q41 runs every 20 min on Sunday. -Terminal service: -Howard Beach rush hours 15 min, other times 30 min -Hamilton Beach rush hours 30 min, other times 60 min -Woodhaven Bl north of Pitkin service levels stay the same -Turn extra trips at Pitkin and/or Rockaway Bl during rush hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted August 9, 2011 Share #2 Posted August 9, 2011 Makes sense. There aren't a whole bunch of stops that the Q53 bypasses while it's in the Rockaways and Broad Channel anyway. I would imagine that a lot of the riders in Lindenwood are just going to the , so the Q41 should be sufficient for that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 9, 2011 Share #3 Posted August 9, 2011 Q21 is used like it's additional Q11 service; a supplement.... I thought the route should've gotten the heave ho before they found a use for it (the old route from B 116th to Rockaway park , via Lindenwood)..... But since they have found another way to save it (which I'll give em credit for), only thing I would do to the Q21 is cut it back to Lindenwood.... retain the "Q21" notation.... south of that point, virtually no one rides the things.... Q41 doesn't really factor into anything here... far as the Q53.... w/ the service it gets, that route is all that's really needed down in the Rockaways (comin from that direction, I mean).... I think it should make local stops between 157th & 164th, while continuing to run the way it currently does w/i the Rockaways.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted August 9, 2011 Share #4 Posted August 9, 2011 After seeing the B24 thread, I thought about the Q21. I don't think it really is necessary, it overlaps the Q11 for most of its trip and it makes local stops in Broad Channel, which doesn't really need LTD service. How about this? -Rename all Q21 trips Q11; no Rockaways service -Q53 make local stops south of 160 Av. -Q41 runs every 20 min on Sunday. -Terminal service: -Howard Beach rush hours 15 min, other times 30 min -Hamilton Beach rush hours 30 min, other times 60 min -Woodhaven Bl north of Pitkin service levels stay the same -Turn extra trips at Pitkin and/or Rockaway Bl during rush hours I agree with B35. The (Q21) should run via Lindenwold between Cross Bay/ 160th Ave. and Queens Center/Woodhaven & QB station say Weekdays 6am-11pm and weekends 7am-10pm. Not doubt it was political reasons why the (Q21) was extended all the way to QC. Lindenwold residents complained for years prior to the about the awful headways it ran between Liberty Ave and Rockaway Park. It's helps they have strong neighborhood political leaders compared to *Cough* SW Brooklyn i.e (B4) (B64) cuts *Cough and other areas of the city. On your ideas Amtrak that are not terrible. I agree with most but with these adjustments. First i would rename the (Q11) Howard Beach branch the "Q11a" and Hamilton Beach "Q11B." On weekends, the Hamilton Beach branch IMO should be a 'shuttle only' between Liberty/Rock Blvd station and Hamilton Bch. Between 11pm-6am(8 am Sundays)all Q11's run between 160th Avenue and Queens Blvd/QC Mall(woodhaven station). As i stated in earlier posts, I would have the (Q53)run 24/7 (all stops along Cross Bay/Woodhaven between Midnight-6am Overnights)to/from Rock Park and QC/Woodhaven station with hourly headways. While the (Q11) is reduced to every hour running between Queens Center and 160th Ave.(no Lindewold loop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted August 9, 2011 But since they have found another way to save it (which I'll give em credit for), only thing I would do to the Q21 is cut it back to Lindenwood.... retain the "Q21" notation.... south of that point, virtually no one rides the things.... That would work...looping Woodhaven Bl-153 Av-155 Av-84 St-157 Av-Woodhaven Bl; if that segment had higher ridership than Howard Beach on the Q11. Q41 doesn't really factor into anything here... I thought that if the Q21 no longer served the segment between Pitkin Av and 157 Av, the alternate route (Q41) needed more service. far as the Q53.... w/ the service it gets, that route is all that's really needed down in the Rockaways (comin from that direction, I mean).... I think it should make local stops between 157th & 164th, while continuing to run the way it currently does w/i the Rockaways.... Why continue making LTD stops in the Rockaways without a local service? On weekends, the Hamilton Beach branch IMO should be a 'shuttle only' between Liberty/Rock Blvd station and Hamilton Bch. Does anyone even ride the Hamilton Beach service south of 160 Av outside of rush hours? On Google Maps the area reminds me of the N62, one that would garner few riders. But of course density-based projections can be deceiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted August 9, 2011 Share #6 Posted August 9, 2011 Q21 is used like it's additional Q11 service; a supplement.... I thought the route should've gotten the heave ho before they found a use for it (the old route from B 116th to Rockaway park , via Lindenwood)..... But since they have found another way to save it (which I'll give em credit for), only thing I would do to the Q21 is cut it back to Lindenwood.... retain the "Q21" notation.... south of that point, virtually no one rides the things.... Q41 doesn't really factor into anything here... far as the Q53.... w/ the service it gets, that route is all that's really needed down in the Rockaways (comin from that direction, I mean).... I think it should make local stops between 157th & 164th, while continuing to run the way it currently does w/i the Rockaways.... Good point. Since you said a lot of them are taking the Q53 to the , the Q21 is pretty much useless. The only way its route is any good is if somebody wanted to ride from Lindenwood to the Rockaways, which nobody wants to do. I agree with B35. The (Q21) should run via Lindenwold between Cross Bay/160th Ave. and Queens Center/Woodhaven & QB station say Weekdays 6am-11pm and weekends 7am-10pm. Not doubt it was political reasons why the (Q21) was extended all the way to QC. Lindenwold residents complained for years prior to the about the awful headways it ran between Liberty Ave and Rockaway Park. It's helps they have strong neighborhood political leaders compared to *Cough* SW Brooklyn i.e (B4) (B64) cuts *Cough and other areas of the city. Those areas are actually relatively powerful. The X37/X38 weren't just restored for the reason the MTA gave (loading guidelines). That had something to do with it, but they weren't about to part with $300,000 unless there was some strong political pressure. That would work...looping Woodhaven Bl-153 Av-155 Av-84 St-157 Av-Woodhaven Bl; if that segment had higher ridership than Howard Beach on the Q11. I thought that if the Q21 no longer served the segment between Pitkin Av and 157 Av, the alternate route (Q41) needed more service. Why continue making LTD stops in the Rockaways without a local service? The thing is that the Q53 already makes most of the stops in the Rockaways, so it almost is a local. As far as the extra service goes, I agree with you. Since the Q21 runs every 30 minutes, a 2 short-turns an hour could be added to the Q41 (unless of course, the Q21 were saved, like in B35's plan) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 9, 2011 Share #7 Posted August 9, 2011 That would work...looping Woodhaven Bl-153 Av-155 Av-84 St-157 Av-Woodhaven Bl; if that segment had higher ridership than Howard Beach on the Q11. Q11 south of Rockaway park & Q21/53 south of Rockaway blvd are two very different animals.... the Q11 on that side of cross bay I would leave alone, regardless..... I thought that if the Q21 no longer served the segment between Pitkin Av and 157 Av, the alternate route (Q41) needed more service. If the Q41 (in general) was more efficient & reliable, you really wouldn't need the 21 in Lindenwood... the amount of service on the 41 aint the problem.... Why continue making LTD stops in the Rockaways without a local service? They have local service... it's called the Q22 jokes aside, it's b/c riders in the rockaways want faster service to the @ Rockaway park, since they currently don't get that w/ the Q21 now, or.... A train service, Period ! Does anyone even ride the Hamilton Beach service south of 160 Av outside of rush hours? On Google Maps the area reminds me of the N62, one that would garner few riders. But of course density-based projections can be deceiving. yes, the 99th st branch of the Q11 does garner more riders than the 104th st branch..... Q11's have those two terminals down there (plus the short turns at pitkin) b/c both branches constitute (very community oriented) residences out there; not exactly areas that can handle (or welcome) a sea of buses on layover all over the place..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted August 9, 2011 Share #8 Posted August 9, 2011 Q21 is used like it's additional Q11 service; a supplement.... I thought the route should've gotten the heave ho before they found a use for it (the old route from B 116th to Rockaway park , via Lindenwood)..... But since they have found another way to save it (which I'll give em credit for), only thing I would do to the Q21 is cut it back to Lindenwood.... retain the "Q21" notation.... south of that point, virtually no one rides the things.... Q41 doesn't really factor into anything here... far as the Q53.... w/ the service it gets, that route is all that's really needed down in the Rockaways (comin from that direction, I mean).... I think it should make local stops between 157th & 164th, while continuing to run the way it currently does w/i the Rockaways.... I'll one-up you on this: What about combining the Q21 with the Q11 Hamilton Beach service? Then I would have this service pattern: 1. Q11 Howard Beach (east)-99 Street via Cohancy 2. Q21 Hamilton Beach-104 St via 84 Street 3. Q51 Howard Beach (west) loop via Cohancy The Q51 would do the Q41 loop through western Howard Beach, and the Q53 would have a stop added at 164 Avenue (bidirectional) and 161 Avenue (northbound only). The only question would be finding room at JFK Depot for the Q51. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4P3607 Posted August 9, 2011 Share #9 Posted August 9, 2011 The Q21 is basically a local version of the Q53, but stops short after Queens Center Mall. Not to be off-topic, but what ever happened to the Q53 local? I still see occaisonal bus stops signs saying "Q53 & Q53 LTD". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted August 9, 2011 Share #10 Posted August 9, 2011 The Q21 is basically a local version of the Q53, but stops short after Queens Center Mall. Not to be off-topic, but what ever happened to the Q53 local? I still see occaisonal bus stops signs saying "Q53 & Q53 LTD". There was never a (Q53) local. It was always a LTD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted August 9, 2011 Share #11 Posted August 9, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted August 9, 2011 Share #12 Posted August 9, 2011 There was never a (Q53) local. It was always a LTD Whether it's get 'owl' aka all nite service or not I always felt the (Q53) should make all stops aka Woodhaven/Cross Bay Local on the last couple of of trips late evenings and first few on Sunday Mornings. Meaning say between Midnight-last bus around 1am and Sunday mornings (1st bus)5am-7am to help out the less used (Q11). If the (Q44) can run 'local' on Main Street late evenings/overnights, why can't the (Q53) IMO. The local (Q53) maybe adds an extra few minutes travel times tops during the late evening/wee early hours of Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q101 E Midtown Posted August 9, 2011 Share #13 Posted August 9, 2011 If the Q53 does gets "owl" service, I think it should serve Lindenwood during the overnight hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share #14 Posted August 9, 2011 Q11 south of Rockaway park & Q21/53 south of Rockaway blvd are two very different animals.... the Q11 on that side of cross bay I would leave alone, regardless..... The point I wanted to make is whether it would be more useful to have the Q21 make the loop I proposed in reply to your post or just provide supplemental service to Howard Bch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic Vaudeville Posted August 9, 2011 Share #15 Posted August 9, 2011 Also, keep in mind that the Q53 used to be nonstop express from Rego Park to the Rockaways. Had the Q21 been extended then, it may have seen more ridership. By converting the Q53 to a LTD instead, it basically became the only route Rockaway residents would even consider using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted August 9, 2011 Share #16 Posted August 9, 2011 Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 10, 2011 Share #17 Posted August 10, 2011 The Q21 is basically a local version of the Q53, but stops short after Queens Center Mall. It's not really used that way, though..... especially south of Liberty.... I'll one-up you on this: What about combining the Q21 with the Q11 Hamilton Beach service? Then I would have this service pattern: 1. Q11 Howard Beach (east)-99 Street via Cohancy 2. Q21 Hamilton Beach-104 St via 84 Street 3. Q51 Howard Beach (west) loop via Cohancy The Q51 would do the Q41 loop through western Howard Beach, and the Q53 would have a stop added at 164 Avenue (bidirectional) and 161 Avenue (northbound only). The only question would be finding room at JFK Depot for the Q51. #1 is the current situation, that's fine... #2... I'll give you that; it would make sense to have the 21 cut across 157th to go on to serve the Howard beach (as opposed to my idea of ending buses @ Lindenwood) #3... I'm assuming this "Q51" would be some type of variant of the Q11, since you never mention where the route would terminate @ its other end... Regardless, those buses would empty out around 157th (since it would be used like the current 11 is); ppl. would seek Q11's (either spur) or Q41's (for service south of 157th) over your 51.... What I'm sayin is, for a rider seeking service south of 157th, there's not that much of a time savings goin via cohancy, as opposed to goin through lindenwood.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted February 6, 2012 Share #18 Posted February 6, 2012 Sorry if Im bumping but would the recent (Q21) change be enough to keep the route alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
error46146 Posted February 7, 2012 Share #19 Posted February 7, 2012 Yes..all they need to do now is expand LTD service outside of rush hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted February 7, 2012 Share #20 Posted February 7, 2012 Yes..all they need to do now is expand LTD service outside of rush hours Why? That's what the (Q53) is for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted February 7, 2012 Share #21 Posted February 7, 2012 Why? That's what the (Q53) is for The initial goal of the Q21 LTD is to take pressure off of the Q53 LTD and serving that one part the Q53 LTD doesnt go to. Plus it allows the Q21 to go straight to one part of the rockaways while the 53 goes to B.116th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted February 7, 2012 Share #22 Posted February 7, 2012 The initial goal of the Q21 LTD is to take pressure off of the Q53 LTD and serving that one part the Q53 LTD doesnt go to. Plus it allows the Q21 to go straight to one part of the rockaways while the 53 goes to B.116th. I know that, I was just asking him why does he feel the (Q21) should run limited all day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted February 8, 2012 Share #23 Posted February 8, 2012 Probably he wants faster service over the local. "the more, the better." Whether it's get 'owl' aka all nite service or not I always felt the (Q53) should make all stops aka Woodhaven/Cross Bay Local on the last couple of of trips late evenings and first few on Sunday Mornings. Meaning say between Midnight-last bus around 1am and Sunday mornings (1st bus)5am-7am to help out the less used (Q11). If the (Q44) can run 'local' on Main Street late evenings/overnights, why can't the (Q53) IMO. The local (Q53) maybe adds an extra few minutes travel times tops during the late evening/wee early hours of Sunday. I know this is an old post* Imo, I think the Q53 being an LGA route and Q21 being Far Rock is why the Q53 shouldn't be changed even late at night. If the Q53 was a Far Rock line or the Q21 was merged into the Q53 as the local Q53, then you can have a local Q53. If the Q11 needs more service at night, just add a few extra runs to that and leave the Q53 as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Rock Depot Posted February 8, 2012 Share #24 Posted February 8, 2012 i use to frequent the Q11 overnights. having the 53 run overnights would be a waste. the 11 barely gets half the seats taken. and whats all this talk about the 21 again? has anyone rode the new version yet? on paper, having 21 ltd service can ease crowding on the 53. and to be honest, not much signage about the new 21 has been put up in rockaway. after having so many years with only the 53 ltd, not many know that the 21 is ltd too. and since its only been a month so far with abts still not completed, it may be a few months before we see if the new 21 works well or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted February 9, 2012 Share #25 Posted February 9, 2012 I'm wondering: when will Queens get those new bus stop poles and signs? They still have the metal erector set pole and sign plate with stickers on them. Few stops on Woodhaven Blvd (that i saw) was like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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