checkmatechamp13 Posted December 5, 2011 Share #26 Posted December 5, 2011 1) I don't see all express bus service being cut simply because there is demand and we're here in NYC, but in your case 100,000 riders overall is not much, esp. when you consider that some LI Bus routes carry "air" as quagmire would say. LOL Aside from that you're in an area where folks don't seem to give a damn about public transportation and when you face a situation like that, there isn't much you can do. Like I said, there is no way that I would move to Long Island knowing how folks turn those noses up at anything that isn't the LIRR. If you're living out there and can drive, well then you'd better have a car. Otherwise, move to the city. 2) I complain about Staten Island because even though we're in the "suburbs" we're still part of NYC, which overall is very transit dependent with more than half of NYC residents needing public transportation, so we have to have money for transportation on some level. I realize that Nassau isn't that far out, but it's still Long Island buddy. And for the records it's not that express buses are slow, it's that there's too much friggin' congestion at times, but that's another subject for another time. 1) From a cost perspective, the average LIB route is about as cost-efficient as an express bus (both make back 50% of their operating costs from fares), so don't use that argument. Overall, LIB is a more extreme version of Staten Island. In SI, you don't see as much variation in the farebox recovery rates. They range from about 20% on the S55/S56 to around 70% on the S48/S98. Out in Nassau County, they range from about 10% on the N73/N74 to over 100% on the N40/N41 (that's right. One route actually makes money out there) It's not about how many riders you serve. It's about how cost-efficiently you serve them. Yeah, there are only 100,000 daily bus riders (it might even be 100,000 trips, which means that there are only 50,000 bus riders), but the routes overall aren't that inefficient. That's like saying "The United States has 300 million people, but the transit systems only carry 40 million people" (I just made that number up, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were true). You're not running bus service out in rural areas (with the exception of a few here and there that are run for one reason or another), but there are a lot of people in rural areas. But it doesn't matter because you're not spending money to serve them. Yes, some routes carry air, and their existance should be seriously reconsidered (for instance eliminate one of the N73/N74 and one of the N80/N81), but you're acting like every route is like that. 2) That has nothing to do with it. If you use your transit service, you should keep it and if you don't, then it gets reduced/eliminated. It doesn't matter whether you're in the city limits or not. Yeah, the percentage of NYC households without a car is 55%, but it's only 19% in Staten Island. It's ridiculous to demand the same level of service out in what you call a "suburb" as in an "urban area" (though let me make it clear that I don't think any area should have no service, as long as at least some people use it). It doesn't matter that we're a part of NYC. Transit service should be based on demand and need, not politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted December 5, 2011 Share #27 Posted December 5, 2011 1) From a cost perspective, the average LIB route is about as cost-efficient as an express bus (both make back 50% of their operating costs from fares), so don't use that argument. Overall, LIB is a more extreme version of Staten Island. In SI, you don't see as much variation in the farebox recovery rates. They range from about 20% on the S55/S56 to around 70% on the S48/S98. Out in Nassau County, they range from about 10% on the N73/N74 to over 100% on the N40/N41 (that's right. One route actually makes money out there) It's not about how many riders you serve. It's about how cost-efficiently you serve them. Yeah, there are only 100,000 daily bus riders (it might even be 100,000 trips, which means that there are only 50,000 bus riders), but the routes overall aren't that inefficient. That's like saying "The United States has 300 million people, but the transit systems only carry 40 million people" (I just made that number up, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were true). You're not running bus service out in rural areas (with the exception of a few here and there that are run for one reason or another), but there are a lot of people in rural areas. But it doesn't matter because you're not spending money to serve them. Yes, some routes carry air, and their existance should be seriously reconsidered (for instance eliminate one of the N73/N74 and one of the N80/N81), but you're acting like every route is like that. 2) That has nothing to do with it. If you use your transit service, you should keep it and if you don't, then it gets reduced/eliminated. It doesn't matter whether you're in the city limits or not. Yeah, the percentage of NYC households without a car is 55%, but it's only 19% in Staten Island. It's ridiculous to demand the same level of service out in what you call a "suburb" as in an "urban area" (though let me make it clear that I don't think any area should have no service, as long as at least some people use it). It doesn't matter that we're a part of NYC. Transit service should be based on demand and need, not politics. Yeah well this is about Long Island, particular Nassau, and they're BROKE, period, so we don't even need to talk about cost per rider and all of this other rhetoric. No money equals no service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted December 5, 2011 Share #28 Posted December 5, 2011 Well, weekday farebox recovery ratios for direct operating costs (with the March data instead of the June data) go from 14% (N14) to 99% (N40/41) Saturday: 8% (N81) to 99% (N40/41) Sunday: 21% (N25) to 101% (N40/41) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VWM Posted December 5, 2011 Share #29 Posted December 5, 2011 They'll all come crawling back to the when Veolia ruins every last route. That is 100% the truth. Well, weekday farebox recovery ratios for direct operating costs (with the March data instead of the June data) go from 14% (N14) to 99% (N40/41) Saturday: 8% (N81) to 99% (N40/41) Sunday: 21% (N25) to 101% (N40/41 ' Where did u get this information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted December 5, 2011 Share #30 Posted December 5, 2011 Well, weekday farebox recovery ratios for direct operating costs (with the March data instead of the June data) go from 14% (N14) to 99% (N40/41) Saturday: 8% (N81) to 99% (N40/41) Sunday: 21% (N25) to 101% (N40/41) Thanks. I figured there were a few changes but nothing major. Yeah well this is about Long Island, particular Nassau, and they're BROKE, period, so we don't even need to talk about cost per rider and all of this other rhetoric. No money equals no service. I was simply refuting your argument that the service is being cut because the ridership isn't there. In any case, I guarantee you there is a ton of waste in Nassau County? How is it that NYC has 8 million people and 1 school district, and yet Nassau County has 1.5 million people and something like 20 school districts? Each with an expensive admininstration. Where did u get this information? Probably the pamphlet they gave out at the public hearings earlier this year (when the MTA wanted to discontinue half the routes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted December 5, 2011 Share #31 Posted December 5, 2011 I thought the disastrous N4 and N6 would fare better, but I remember riding a midday trip the first day of classes and it only got SRO when I got off in Lynbrook... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted December 6, 2011 Share #32 Posted December 6, 2011 Thanks. I figured there were a few changes but nothing major. I was simply refuting your argument that the service is being cut because the ridership isn't there. In any case, I guarantee you there is a ton of waste in Nassau County? How is it that NYC has 8 million people and 1 school district, and yet Nassau County has 1.5 million people and something like 20 school districts? Each with an expensive admininstration. Probably the pamphlet they gave out at the public hearings earlier this year (when the MTA wanted to discontinue half the routes) checkmate is right nassau is simply mismanaged. How come when I state facts it's still considered crap? joel know what I say before ignoring it cause if you read my last points you would know that I was making sense. Nassau is broken period. The whole county is run by idiots who can't manage money they need just one school district NOT 50 of em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted December 6, 2011 Share #33 Posted December 6, 2011 Exactly, Mangano can print money, he cant spend anymore without NIFA approval, he cant print money, To you guys who are ripping him, explain to me how he can get the money to pay the MTA. Im all ears Joe well consolidate the school districts into 5 or less that alone will save millions. Eliminate the crazy pensions which would create enough money to pay MTA and pay off debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted December 6, 2011 Share #34 Posted December 6, 2011 I've been saying this time and again and Joel refuses to look at the high taxes. Where does he think this money is going to come from?? If the county can't afford it then they can't take money from the sky and that's what this boils down to... MONEY. When he starts working and paying taxes like the rest of us he'll understand better. True he is quite clueless he doesn't look at nassau as a whole. True most people turn their nose up on anything that isn't LIRR well if the LIB and SCT were structured around LIRR maybe more people will use it. LIB and SCT's worst weakness is their horrible rush hour service. LI is similar to westchester yet you see SRO buses there taking people to the metro-north at rush hour. But in nassau you don't see that look at the LIB routes around many LIRR stations their rush hour service is crap so bad and infrequent that if you work in NYC and live in LI using LIB is actually impossible!!!!!!! Even if you want to use it you can't cause people can't use what doesn't run. Examples of Failed feeders are N74/73/80/81/50/46/45/51/36. Look at their routing then their schedule as lilbluefox would say the schedule doesn't work for people who live in LI. As for qjgibberish his thoughts are devoid of anything, and "quagmire" is an understatement. A certain show also ruined the word for me but that's something else for another time. If I had a car I'd have gotten a job by now. I can barely rely on the system to get home, forget trying to keep a work schedule... BS grow up boy Via 8 is right to an extent nassau is broke and run by idiots. Let me say it in non gibberish terms so you can understand NASSAU IS BROKE AND MISMANAGED BADLY Now you know why you can't find work or retain a work schedule joel. You are an example of why ridership is only 100,000 ppl basically your comment only validates my theory that the layout of LIB actually ignores the travel needs of most nassau residents. Ppl who drive tell me their travel path and thus when you have friends who drive and then use several bus lines all over then you will know about the unmet needs to an extent. Nassau as a whole not just their bus system their whole county is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted December 6, 2011 Share #35 Posted December 6, 2011 What people don't realize or are just not talking about is that if this whole Violia Transit thing works outs, it won't be long until they try to do the same thing with the city buses. That's probably why Violia supposedly is gonna do it for such a cheap price. They are just trying to get their foot in the New York city public transportation door...that's why I'm taking my a** to Car Equipment first chance I get. It would be economically impossible to bring in a private operator for the subway system unless %100 of the workers and union reps were on board with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share #36 Posted December 6, 2011 I just came back from public hearing. Nassau County officials and legislature don't know how to hold public hearing, 1pm Public Hearing begins 1 hour 45 minutes late. Entire seat were filled with lots of passengers, disable and students. There was no place to seat when I came in and one of legislature got seat for me. PinePower was there as well. This time, Edward Magano was there. At one point during public speech, one of legisulator, Suchizzi interrupted one of passenger with English was not his native language, so another legislator told him not to interrupt him because he need time to speak English. Patricia Powden was there as well. It was very excellent. Because of public hearing was delay up to 1 hour 30 minutes, some ADA speakers couldn't speak because you need appointment for Able-A-Ride and it cannot wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted December 6, 2011 Share #37 Posted December 6, 2011 relax guys...MTA BUS operators to the rescue....they are making the calls now to see who wants to work the runs that are being left open for the next 3 weeks...hear I come to save the dayyyyyy..... No kidding, any idea which route(s) you're doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted December 6, 2011 Share #38 Posted December 6, 2011 Time to make my move I finished with my data unfortunately this place wasn't very helpful in reguards to LI owell famousNYlover I think you now know what I really am up to. I will tell you this the final LIB plan I made is radically different from any suggestions I made here. I also recently used many LIB lines and observed the driving patterns of the residents it's basically reshaping the system with little to no extra cost to enhance ridership I will PM you and pinepower how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPBO Posted December 6, 2011 Share #39 Posted December 6, 2011 No kidding, any idea which route(s) you're doing? Today when I go pick I will try and get a look at it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPBO Posted December 6, 2011 Share #40 Posted December 6, 2011 this is something they are still working on...cause I heard them saying they need to re-call everybody..cause now they added runs....but guys at the depot are saying shit about the guys going...calling them scabs ....like come on grow up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAzumah Posted December 6, 2011 Share #41 Posted December 6, 2011 this is something they are still working on...cause I heard them saying they need to re-call everybody..cause now they added runs....but guys at the depot are saying shit about the guys going...calling them scabs ....like come on grow up.... I was waiting to see how long until it came up. I am sure that TWU 252 isn't thrilled about it. They would prefer to use this as an example of the chaos "Veolia is creating" so that the deal gets killed. At this point, Nassau doesn't have a no vote to cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPBO Posted December 7, 2011 Share #42 Posted December 7, 2011 It sounds like drivers are just jumping ship...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinePower Posted December 9, 2011 Share #43 Posted December 9, 2011 It sounds like drivers are just jumping ship...... The damage is done, even if the stays a little while longer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPBO Posted December 9, 2011 Share #44 Posted December 9, 2011 So this Sunday is the day that this will start.....you will see operartors from CP and LGA on Long Island Bus and Im not sure but maybe other MTA BUS depots might of got in on the action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted December 10, 2011 Share #45 Posted December 10, 2011 So this Sunday is the day that this will start.....you will see operartors from CP and LGA on Long Island Bus and Im not sure but maybe other MTA BUS depots might of got in on the action I only saw about 4 drivers from MTA Bus I saw one from CP idk about the rest but this will be interesting and I think BP drivers will also be there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctrabs74 Posted December 14, 2011 Share #46 Posted December 14, 2011 That's stupid, though it would be nice if they at least used a local business instead of a multinational conglomerate. Stupid, how? At least Liberty Lines has a decent track record with Westchester BeeLine. If I were living in Nassau, I could live with LL operating buses in Nassau. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted December 15, 2011 Share #47 Posted December 15, 2011 Stupid, how? At least Liberty Lines has a decent track record with Westchester BeeLine. If I were living in Nassau, I could live with LL operating buses in Nassau. I meant the comment that LL should've been asked run LIB is stupid, since we all know that ain't happening as LL is a Westchester company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted December 21, 2011 Share #48 Posted December 21, 2011 That's Nassau County PROBLEM had the people re-elected Suozzi they probably wouldn't be in this predicament Ok, if Nassau "hasn't been paying for YEARS", how would re-electing Suozzi have helped anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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