NICE Planned Service/Schedule Changes

[Mtatransit]

20 minutes ago, Lex said:

Besides, for all this effort, why not try to do something with the n1? It's basically left to rot outside of the peaks, while having a terminus around the UBS Arena would maybe give it a shot at being somewhat useful. (I also got an idea just now, but aside from clearly being something I pulled out of my ass while doing something that doesn't help, it really doesn't fit here.)

Doubt it would do anything to increase the n1's ridership with the extension to UBS, although I think if it ran more often to Jamaica including off peak and weekend, it would do better (at its northern end, that is north of Valley Stream LIRR). 

The demographic of that route a) are not the type that would go to an event at UBS Arena or b) Won't be caught dead on a bus or even near Green Acres Mall

Edited December 30, 2021 by Mtatransit

[checkmatechamp13]

5 hours ago, Lex said:

That would require people to be in reasonably close proximity to one of those stops and for a theoretical delay to only affect the local (which I seriously doubt, considering where the route goes).

Besides, for all this effort, why not try to do something with the n1? It's basically left to rot outside of the peaks, while having a terminus around the UBS Arena would maybe give it a shot at being somewhat useful. (I also got an idea just now, but aside from clearly being something I pulled out of my ass while doing something that doesn't help, it really doesn't fit here.)

I just realized, the N6 Limited used to stop at Locustwood Blvd, and that was the only stop that didn't return after they added the stops back to the n6X. I believe @N6 Limited can confirm.

[B35 via Church]

9 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

To be honest, I don't think a stop there would hurt. While it won't be carrying a busloads of crowds from either Jamaica or Hempstead, a small portion of the arena bound passengers  may opt to use it.

9 hours ago, Lex said:

Besides, for all this effort, why not try to do something with the n1? It's basically left to rot outside of the peaks, while having a terminus around the UBS Arena would maybe give it a shot at being somewhat useful. (I also got an idea just now, but aside from clearly being something I pulled out of my ass while doing something that doesn't help, it really doesn't fit here.)

* To @Mtatransit: From where though (literal)? And around or about how many (rhetorical)? The problem I'm having with this stop addition, as it relates to how many people would actually consider utilizing the n6x (I would say the same for the n6 local, but the subject at the moment is the n6x, so....) to get there, is scope....

* To both of you: Also, is UBS Arena offering any other source of entertainment (which is what sports is) outside of Islanders Hockey?

9 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Personally I believe the ridership specifically for the Arena will be heavier coming to/from Jamaica.

The secondary and imo the main ridership most likely will be those who will opt take NICE bus to the city line, as a faster way rather than taking the NYCT. So essentially its may siphon some ridership away from NYCT, although the stop location is bad compared to the other city line locations on other NICE routes (with CIP bisecting the border and all that).

That goes without question; whatever majority of a minuscule minority of people would take the n6x there, would come from points west.... I almost want to say literally no Nassau County resident would consider the n6/n6x...

Not that I disagree with the particular point, but siphoning ridership from the Q2 & Q110 to/from there isn't really saying much though

9 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

That being said NICE is so optimistic in the ridership projections that they are offering a free shuttle from the n6 stop to the Belmont Park LIRR. Obviously catered towards the fans and not employees in this case... 

https://www.nicebus.com/Passenger-Information/UBS-Arena

This doesn't help the case for the n6... Fans will gravitate towards taking the LIRR than they will for a bus (including those coming from points west of the arena)....

11 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

In other words, they can take the limited if it shows up first, since it now stops there.

9 hours ago, Lex said:

That would require people to be in reasonably close proximity to one of those stops and for a theoretical delay to only affect the local (which I seriously doubt, considering where the route goes).

All the original point hinges on, is *the n6x is faster than the n6*... That's all & that's it.

The scenario that has locals being delayed as a supporting talking point, to me isn't much more than a smokescreen... If NICE has to have n6x's stopping at a particular stop because locals are being delayed, they have other problems - (stopping at an) Arena or not.....

[Lex]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

* To both of you: Also, is UBS Arena offering any other source of entertainment (which is what sports is) outside of Islanders Hockey?

Completely outside of sports (college basketball and pro wrestling, for whatever the latter counts), Harry Styles and Chicago performed there in November, so I have no reason to believe it would be limited to the Islanders/sports.

[B35 via Church]

20 hours ago, Lex said:

Completely outside of sports (college basketball and pro wrestling, for whatever the latter counts), Harry Styles and Chicago performed there in November, so I have no reason to believe it would be limited to the Islanders/sports.

So, a lesser version of Barclays Center, basically...

I say lesser because the main reason ppl. get on/off buses at Barclays Center is b/c they're seeking, or having gotten off of some subway line.... Folks seldom take buses to get to Barclays for (whatever event being hosted at some given moment).... Well that, and there isn't jack shit else around UBS Arena.....

 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Folks seldom take buses to get to Barclays for (whatever event being hosted at some given moment).

 

Probably not, but those who do get there by bus are more likely to be employees than ticket-holders.

[B35 via Church]

15 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Probably not, but those who do get there by bus are more likely to be employees than ticket-holders.

...which doesn't help the cause for having the n6x in particular stop at the UBS Arena... The n6 local already exists... Public transportation exists for the masses... NICE is trying to attract fans (over employees) with that stop addition.... More power to them for trying.

[NewFlyer 230]

When the n6x stops at the UBS arena is it just making an additional stop in front of the place along Hempstead Turnpike or will it actually stop alongside the Belmont Park LIRR station at that bus stop where the Q2 and Q110 stop/lay over at?  

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

When the n6x stops at the UBS arena is it just making an additional stop in front of the place along Hempstead Turnpike or will it actually stop alongside the Belmont Park LIRR station at that bus stop where the Q2 and Q110 stop/lay over at?  

It's just going to stop where the n6 local does; the current Locustwood blvd. stop..... No deviations of any sort are going to be made.

[Mtatransit]

On 12/30/2021 at 3:08 PM, B35 via Church said:

* To @Mtatransit: From where though (literal)? And around or about how many (rhetorical)? The problem I'm having with this stop addition, as it relates to how many people would actually consider utilizing the n6x (I would say the same for the n6 local, but the subject at the moment is the n6x, so....) to get there, is scope....

Not much... not much at all. Maybe some will use it to walk back to 225th, which is a stretch by itself since the CIP bisects that general area. That and local passengers who current get off in that general vicinity (Locustwood, Savoy, Holland) are the only passengers I could think of that may find that stop useful (and most of it because they could get on the first bus from Queens vs only the local or n1)

Not sure if it would even save riders that much time compared with taking the n6 local (other than the wait for the bus).

 

The stop placement for the arena doesn't help, especially when you have to walk through a huge parking lot to get to the arena... I could've swore NICE/LIB used to have a stop closer to the Belmont Racetrack (right next to the off ramp from CIP)

On 12/31/2021 at 4:57 PM, B35 via Church said:

...which doesn't help the cause for having the n6x in particular stop at the UBS Arena... The n6 local already exists... Public transportation exists for the masses... NICE is trying to attract fans (over employees) with that stop addition.... More power to them for trying.

Definitely shows by them operating that shuttle bus to the LIRR.  Can't really complain about that... its not going to work, but at least they are trying something (unlike the LIRR, which seems to dread having to operate the Belmont trains despite decent ridership)

On 12/30/2021 at 10:57 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

I just realized, the N6 Limited used to stop at Locustwood Blvd, and that was the only stop that didn't return after they added the stops back to the n6X. I believe @N6 Limited can confirm.

According to the old LIB timetable from 2010, the old N6 Limited indeed did have a stop in both direction at Hempstead Turnpike/Locustwood Blvd. I am sure there was another stop on the opposite side of Belmont Racetrack in addition to the Locustwood stop

On a side note, how do people used to read the old LIB schedules. The fonts are super small, and to get to the PM section for n6 you have to "unroll" the entire timetable which is literally more than 20 inches long... kind of like looking at a long scroll... with a small font

[N6 Limited]

On 12/30/2021 at 10:57 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

I just realized, the N6 Limited used to stop at Locustwood Blvd, and that was the only stop that didn't return after they added the stops back to the n6X. I believe @N6 Limited can confirm.

Correct, the N6 Limited stopped at Locustwood Blvd, they also have not reinstated Hillside and Francis Lewis.

On 12/31/2021 at 4:57 PM, B35 via Church said:

...which doesn't help the cause for having the n6x in particular stop at the UBS Arena... The n6 local already exists... Public transportation exists for the masses... NICE is trying to attract fans (over employees) with that stop addition.... More power to them for trying.

NICE is trying to attract customers...

On 1/1/2022 at 12:36 PM, B35 via Church said:

It's just going to stop where the n6 local does; the current Locustwood blvd. stop..... No deviations of any sort are going to be made.

Kinda sorta, they've reconstructed Hempstead Tpke in the area around the Arena. They've..

• Added a traffic light and crossing on the east side of the Cross Island Parkway. (Just before the westbound entrance to the Northbound CIP.)
• Added two bus bays. 
  • The Eastbound bay is like a bus length or two east of where the old Belmont Stop was, there is now a parking garage behind the stop.  The Locustwood Blvd stop still exists as a separate stop, it was recently moved across the street by the Elmont Health Center, it was essentially merged with the Sterling Rd stop that was in front of Wendy's a block away.  It will provide local riders with quicker service from Jamaica, or to Hempstead or other transfer points.
  • The Westbound Bay is where the old Wellington Road Stop was (which they had previously removed). So it's technically a consolidation of the Belmont Park, Wellington Rd, and Locustwood Blvd stops. It will be useful to bus commuters because even when the N6 Limited was running, riders would get flagged at that stop. Now they have more and quicker service to the subway or from the east.
• Added two eastbound left turn lanes into Belmont Park with a pedestrian "refuge" in the middle on both sides of the intersection. (Although a median was already present on the west side)

On 1/2/2022 at 5:42 AM, Mtatransit said:

According to the old LIB timetable from 2010, the old N6 Limited indeed did have a stop in both direction at Hempstead Turnpike/Locustwood Blvd. I am sure there was another stop on the opposite side of Belmont Racetrack in addition to the Locustwood stop

On a side note, how do people used to read the old LIB schedules. The fonts are super small, and to get to the PM section for n6 you have to "unroll" the entire timetable which is literally more than 20 inches long... kind of like looking at a long scroll... with a small font

Yes Belmont Racetrack had separate Eastbound and Westbound stops which they removed in their "stop spacing" program. Now, it has been reinstated Eastbound, and consolidated westbound with Wellington Rd and Locustwood Blvd.

Yeah the old LIB schedules were long for the busy routes. The font was "small" but there was a lot of detail. The PM was bold so it wasn't too difficult to read. They tried to have Saturday and Sunday at the end, so you didn't have to unroll the whole schedule all the time haha.

Edited January 5, 2022 by N6 Limited

[B35 via Church]

28 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

NICE is trying to attract customers...

A particular type of customer with this particular stop addition.

 

[N6 Limited]

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

A particular type of customer with this particular stop addition.

 

It's a new trip generator, should they not do anything at all?

[Lex]

2 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

It's a new trip generator, should they not do anything at all?

For who?

[B35 via Church]

16 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

It's a new trip generator, should they not do anything at all?

Being that I don't see near as many people even bothering to take public buses to the arena, I don't see it being worth it to have the n6x in particular stopping there... Basic coverage/service in the form of the n6 local already exists.... Don't see the need for another service type of the route stopping there to serve it... No.

13 hours ago, Lex said:

For who?

The hordes of people that consistently that took n43's and/or n70/71's to the Nassau Coliseum....

Apparently.

Edited January 6, 2022 by B35 via Church

[N6 Limited]

On 1/5/2022 at 9:12 PM, B35 via Church said:

Being that I don't see near as many people even bothering to take public buses to the arena, I don't see it being worth it to have the n6x in particular stopping there... Basic coverage/service in the form of the n6 local already exists.... Don't see the need for another service type of the route stopping there to serve it... No.

Workers, etc, they're going to have concerts, etc, 

On 1/5/2022 at 9:12 PM, B35 via Church said:

The hordes of people that consistently that took n43's and/or n70/71's to the Nassau Coliseum....

Apparently.

Haha, this is slightly different,  The N6 connects directly to the subway, various Queens bus routes, is frequent, 24/7,  and the arena is close to Hemp Tpke, and on the border of NYC and close to a City Ticket station (QV). The Nassau Coliseum is deep in the middle of a parking lot in the middle of nowhere. I've taken the N70/71/72 to an event at the coliseum and had to leave slightly early to make sure I caught the last bus to Hempstead. The arena has a LIRR stop as well so, the Coliseum stigmas don't necessarily apply.

Though.... if the N6 somehow regains it's reputation of being SRO all day, and NICE can't supply sufficient service without flagging everyone east of 179th st during rush hours, then it's moot.

[B35 via Church]

10 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

Workers, etc, they're going to have concerts, etc,

....of which still constitute as people.

Regardless, the overwhelming majority of whoever falls in that category won't consider taking the bus there.... While I don't necessarily fault them for grasping at straws (so to speak), that mindset is what NICE is up against.....

10 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

Haha, this is slightly different,  The N6 connects directly to the subway, various Queens bus routes, is frequent, 24/7,  and the arena is close to Hemp Tpke, and on the border of NYC and close to a City Ticket station (QV). The Nassau Coliseum is deep in the middle of a parking lot in the middle of nowhere. I've taken the N70/71/72 to an event at the coliseum and had to leave slightly early to make sure I caught the last bus to Hempstead. The arena has a LIRR stop as well so, the Coliseum stigmas don't necessarily apply.

Lol... I don't need to be sold on what the n6 is & I'm not sure what coliseum stigmas you're making a reference to... The point is that suburbanites by far & large won't rely on taking public buses to get there.... Quite frankly, nor would NYC residents (as this arena, like Nassau Coliseum, strikes me as one of these arenas that suburbanites would flock to more than NYC residents would).... With the way you're defending this whole bit, you're making it sound like folks by far & large would ditch their cars & have the LIRR be the afterthought (instead of, the bus) or something.... This notion that NICE was primarily or largely thinking about workers, or anyone else that isn't a fan (which a concert-goer still qualifies as) that wants to attend the arena, is bullshit.... The fact that a whole new LIRR station was even built to facilitate those coming/going from the arena, speaks to the preferred method of travel (as it relates to public transit) that was envisioned, before the arena was even built....

Even though Nassau Coliseum is more out-of-the-way, one of the knocks on UBS Arena is that it's in a shit location.... They better get it together with the parking situation on top of it; place hasn't been open for a year yet & I've already heard at least 3 news stories on how fed up residents around & about the area are.....

10 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

Though.... if the N6 somehow regains it's reputation of being SRO all day, and NICE can't supply sufficient service without flagging everyone east of 179th st during rush hours, then it's moot.

Due to anything UBS Arena related? Well this is one thing NICE won't have to worry about....

[N6 Limited]

21 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

The point is that suburbanites by far & large won't rely on taking public buses to get there

Probably not being that it's right by the CIP, driving around LI is simply faster. Though, I think you're making a bigger deal of the N6x stop than what it really is. It could be as simple as "We want potential customers to be able to get to the arena by boarding any N6 that they see". Could you imagine someone boarding the n6x and the bus just rolling by without stopping and the next stop is Elmont Rd or Springfield Blvd?

 

27 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Quite frankly, nor would NYC residents (as this arena, like Nassau Coliseum, strikes me as one of these arenas that suburbanites would flock to more than NYC residents would).... With the way you're defending this whole bit, you're making it sound like folks by far & large would ditch their cars & have the LIRR be the afterthought (instead of, the bus) or something.... This notion that NICE was primarily or largely thinking about workers, or anyone else that isn't a fan (which a concert-goer still qualifies as) that wants to attend the arena, is bullshit.... The fact that a whole new LIRR station was even built to facilitate those coming/going from the arena, speaks to the preferred method of travel (as it relates to public transit) that was envisioned, before the arena was even built....

Even though Nassau Coliseum is more out-of-the-way, one of the knocks on UBS Arena is that it's in a shit location.... They better get it together with the parking situation on top of it; place hasn't been open for a year yet & I've already heard at least 3 news stories on how fed up residents around & about the area are.....

All I'm saying is that it has better transit options over the Nassau Coliseum, and the N6 is the busiest and most heavily used NICE route. It may attract people along the route, (particularly those without a car and those in Queens that use the QBL.).  

As for parking, Who wants to pay $20 minimum for parking when you can park a few blocks away and walk? Amusement parks and other isolated venues get away with it because there's no other choice.  At this point, the issue isn't lack of parking, but maybe too expensive parking, but they do have to pay for the garage they build which should be open in a couple of months, so..

 

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, N6 Limited said:

Probably not being that it's right by the CIP, driving around LI is simply faster. Though, I think you're making a bigger deal of the N6x stop than what it really is. It could be as simple as "We want potential customers to be able to get to the arena by boarding any N6 that they see". Could you imagine someone boarding the n6x and the bus just rolling by without stopping and the next stop is Elmont Rd or Springfield Blvd?

So a variant of a pre-existing route should stop at the arena due to rider ignorance? Has it gotten that bad with public transit in the tri-state area...

1 hour ago, N6 Limited said:

All I'm saying is that it has better transit options over the Nassau Coliseum, and the N6 is the busiest and most heavily used NICE route. It may attract people along the route, (particularly those without a car and those in Queens that use the QBL.).  

Sounds more to me like your point is that there's a higher chance of UBS Arena garnering more attendees than Nassau Coliseum coming in by way of some public bus.... That alone I don't have a problem with, because quite frankly, it's not saying much... But when I start getting the sense that someone is expressing (or implicating) a sentiment that has these buses benefiting way more people with this bus stop addition than I think it will, then yeah, I'm going to contest that.... Especially when the MTA built up a whole new RR station to aid in facilitating folks.... Now I get NICE is trying to stick their hand in the collection plate (so to speak)... Godspeed to them for trying, I guess, but I still think it's going to be futile in the short term & in the long term....

1 hour ago, N6 Limited said:

As for parking, Who wants to pay $20 minimum for parking when you can park a few blocks away and walk? Amusement parks and other isolated venues get away with it because there's no other choice.  At this point, the issue isn't lack of parking, but maybe too expensive parking, but they do have to pay for the garage they build which should be open in a couple of months, so..

While I agree that the situation is due to overly expensive parking over lack of parking, part of it I'm pretty certain has to do with laziness as well.... Let me catch some unruly a**hole{s} hopping fences in using my property as a conduit to get to their damn car... Whether that one homeowner was lying about about or not, who knows, but nothing like that should ever be a thing, because UBS doesn't have their shit in order.... I think they propped up (and opened) that arena too quickly anyway....

[N6 Limited]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

So a variant of a pre-existing route should stop at the arena due to rider ignorance? Has it gotten that bad with public transit in the tri-state area...

Lets just say I've been on enough N6 and N6 Limiteds with eastbound riders trying to get off in Queens, or yelling at the driver in Nassau for not stopping at local stops. Last thing they need are riders unfamiliar with the area complaining about that.

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Sounds more to me like your point is that there's a higher chance of UBS Arena garnering more attendees than Nassau Coliseum coming in by way of some public bus.... That alone I don't have a problem with, because quite frankly, it's not saying much... But when I start getting the sense that someone is expressing (or implicating) a sentiment that has these buses benefiting way more people with this bus stop addition than I think it will, then yeah, I'm going to contest that.... Especially when the MTA built up a whole new RR station to aid in facilitating folks.... Now I get NICE is trying to stick their hand in the collection plate (so to speak)... Godspeed to them for trying, I guess, but I still think it's going to be futile in the short term & in the long term....

I mean, it's really low effort/cost, all they did was add a stop to a route that already passes by the stop. They also use articulated buses on some express trips.

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

While I agree that the situation is due to overly expensive parking over lack of parking, part of it I'm pretty certain has to do with laziness as well.... Let me catch some unruly a**hole{s} hopping fences in using my property as a conduit to get to their damn car... Whether that one homeowner was lying about about or not, who knows, but nothing like that should ever be a thing, because UBS doesn't have their shit in order.... I think they propped up (and opened) that arena too quickly anyway....

I haven't heard of that account. That's crazy though

[B35 via Church]

4 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

Lets just say I've been on enough N6 and N6 Limiteds with eastbound riders trying to get off in Queens, or yelling at the driver in Nassau for not stopping at local stops. Last thing they need are riders unfamiliar with the area complaining about that.

Yeah, I've been on my fair share of n6 LTD's & n6x's where that's happened myself... By that logic, there should be more stops in Queens.... NICE would be foolish to start adding stops to the n6x (or any other skip-stop variant) for that reason...

4 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

I mean, it's really low effort/cost, all they did was add a stop to a route that already passes by the stop. They also use articulated buses on some express trips.

Low effort/cost isn't the issue; that's like saying just because you can do some action, means that action should be done....

Demand accounts for something.

4 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

I haven't heard of that account. That's crazy though

Yeah, it was on the news about 2 weeks ago.... Well, that's the one good thing about situating an arena in an isolated area like Nassau Coliseum, Meadowlands, etc...

[N6 Limited]

6 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, I've been on my fair share of n6 LTD's & n6x's where that's happened myself... By that logic, there should be more stops in Queens.... NICE would be foolish to start adding stops to the n6x (or any other skip-stop variant) for that reason...

Could be because the developers paid them.

 

9 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Low effort/cost isn't the issue; that's like saying just because you can do some action, means that action should be done....

Demand accounts for something.

NICE likes to experiment, the introduction of the N6x was a disaster in the first place.

10 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, it was on the news about 2 weeks ago.... Well, that's the one good thing about situating an arena in an isolated area like Nassau Coliseum, Meadowlands, etc...

Touché

[B35 via Church]

36 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

Could be because the developers paid them.

I wouldn't doubt it... Although if that were the case, they would have them loop buses inside the property.

36 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

NICE likes to experiment, the introduction of the N6x was a disaster in the first place.

I know.... For all the knocks against NICE (which have significantly simmered down since the transition from LIB), that is one trait I like about that transit provider..... Of course, with experimentations, comes hits & misses.... To this day (for example) you have people complaining about the n20g/n20h, large in part, having to do with poor connectivity over there at LIRR Great Neck - which is why you have people doing all that crossing on Northern Blvd at Middle Neck rd to xfer b/w the 2 services.....

Anyway, throughout this exchange/conversation, I was thinking about that the entire time (how much of a debacle the n6x is, compared to the n6L that preceded it, that should've been left alone)....

Edited January 8, 2022 by B35 via Church

[N6 Limited]

10 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I know.... For all the knocks against NICE (which have significantly simmered down since the transition from LIB), that is one trait I like about that transit provider..... Of course, with experimentations, comes hits & misses.... To this day (for example) you have people complaining about the n20g/n20h, large in part, having to do with poor connectivity over there at LIRR Great Neck - which is why you have people doing all that crossing on Northern Blvd at Middle Neck rd to xfer b/w the 2 services....

They also had the same connection issue with the N23/N27 combo they had going on.

10 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Anyway, throughout this exchange/conversation, I was thinking about that the entire time (how much of a debacle the n6x is, compared to the n6L that preceded it, that should've been left alone)....

I certainly agree. They basically ran the N6 ridership away.

[jaf0519]

Figured I would put this here since is a service addition. Starting in June, NICE is bringing back the N36 in the form of Nice Mini, basically Nassau’s version of the on demand service Suffolk County has. Service area is roughly near the N36 route via Atlantic Avenue from Lynbrook to Freeport, but looks to also be coving parts of the Nautical Mile where the N62 used to run, as well as Merrick Road west of Babylon Turnpike. They also said that Nice Mini would have several zones added across the county over the next 3 years.

https://www.ridemini.com

Edited March 20, 2022 by jaf0519