Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 1, 2015 Share #4276 Posted October 1, 2015 I live one block from the QM4 and I can tell you first hand the QM4 has a lot of empty runs including on the weekends. Rush hours and some midday trips on the QM4 sees good to decent usage. I feel like the QM4 could see even better usage if the Q64 wasn't so frequent. That's probably quite accurate. The QM4 outside of rush runs hourly, so with those frequencies most don't/won't want to wait. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted October 1, 2015 Share #4277 Posted October 1, 2015 That's probably quite accurate. The QM4 outside of rush runs hourly, so with those frequencies most don't/won't want to wait.I feel like the QM4 should run more frequently during the rush hour until 9:30AM. The Q64 still runs crushloaded until around 10am and then afterwards buses are normal crowded or SRO. I feel like the X68 suffers with the same issue. The Q1, Q43, Q36, Q17 etc run so frequently that it makes no sense to wait for the X68. Union Turnpike does so well because you have a express bus showing up just as fast as the local/limited Q46. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 1, 2015 Share #4278 Posted October 1, 2015 I feel like the QM4 should run more frequently during the rush hour until 9:30AM. The Q64 still runs crushloaded until around 10am and then afterwards buses are normal crowded or SRO. I feel like the X68 suffers with the same issue. The Q1, Q43, Q36, Q17 etc run so frequently that it makes no sense to wait for the X68. Union Turnpike does so well because you have a express bus showing up just as fast as the local/limited Q46. More QM4 service during the rush would be overkill. You seem to forget that during the rush the QM4 has the 3rd Avenue branch and 6th Avenue branch. Combined, headways can be just 5-10 minutes in some cases. From 06:45 - 08:00, the longest one has to wait for a QM4 is 15 minutes. The rest of the times, the waits are 5-10 minutes. After 08:00 you still have waits of 5-10 minutes until 08:20, and then you have 10-15 minute waits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Bus Co. Posted October 2, 2015 Share #4279 Posted October 2, 2015 I feel like the QM4 should run more frequently during the rush hour until 9:30AM. It also needs more realistic running time. My wife just rode one; it picked her up on time (along 6th Avenue) and dropped her off 55 minutes late. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 2, 2015 Share #4280 Posted October 2, 2015 It also needs more realistic running time. My wife just rode one; it picked her up on time (along 6th Avenue) and dropped her off 55 minutes late. It shouldn't be a surprise that it was delayed. Anyone that rides the express bus knows that the buses are delayed when it rains, as was the case with my express bus tonight. Arrived about 20 minutes late and I got home about 30 minutes late. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted October 2, 2015 Share #4281 Posted October 2, 2015 It also needs more realistic running time. My wife just rode one; it picked her up on time (along 6th Avenue) and dropped her off 55 minutes late. Well the QM's in general the past few weeks have been running late because of the UN General Assembly meetings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted October 2, 2015 Share #4282 Posted October 2, 2015 More QM4 service during the rush would be overkill. You seem to forget that during the rush the QM4 has the 3rd Avenue branch and 6th Avenue branch. Combined, headways can be just 5-10 minutes in some cases. From 06:45 - 08:00, the longest one has to wait for a QM4 is 15 minutes. The rest of the times, the waits are 5-10 minutes. After 08:00 you still have waits of 5-10 minutes until 08:20, and then you have 10-15 minute waits.And you still have the Q64 that runs two buses crushloaded to Forest Hills every three minutes. I don't really see service running every 5 minutes like you claim. I took a look at the schedule and 3rd and 6th Ave service run every 15 minutes for each branch and leave from 164st Elechester 5 minutes apart and then a 10 minute gap again and it continues like that until I believe around 8:30am. So people in Elechester and along Jewel until Main are not utilizing the QM4 because people can still get a seat on the Q64. However I notice more people are utilizing the QM4 at Main and afterward when the Q64 tends to be packed or SRO. Back to the scheduling no mattar how you look at it if I needed 6th Ave I would have to wait 15 minutes especially if I just missed one because the 3rd Ave bus would work for me unless my destination is equally distant between both routings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 2, 2015 Share #4283 Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) And you still have the Q64 that runs two buses crushloaded to Forest Hills every three minutes. I don't really see service running every 5 minutes like you claim. I took a look at the schedule and 3rd and 6th Ave service run every 15 minutes for each branch and leave from 164st Elechester 5 minutes apart and then a 10 minute gap again and it continues like that until I believe around 8:30am. So people in Elechester and along Jewel until Main are not utilizing the QM4 because people can still get a seat on the Q64. However I notice more people are utilizing the QM4 at Main and afterward when the Q64 tends to be packed or SRO. Back to the scheduling no mattar how you look at it if I needed 6th Ave I would have to wait 15 minutes especially if I just missed one because the 3rd Ave bus would work for me unless my destination is equally distant between both routings. Just to be clear, plenty of people that work in between 6th and 3rd switch between the two branches. It's not that far. The only way someone would just have to get the QM4 6th Avenue branch is if they're wayyy on the West side. The point is that the two branches combined provide pretty decent rush hour service to Manhattan and when push comes to shove, a bus to Manhattan (be it 6th or 3rd Avenue) works. Believe me, when I need an express bus to Manhattan, I don't care if it's a West Side of East Side bus. I worry about that once I get into the city, which is what a lot of people do unless they are really far on the West Side or East Side, but the difference in the distances for most is 10 - 15 minutes tops. Nothing particularly horrendous. I know people that walk from the East Side to the Port Authority daily. That's one of the reasons you have the 3rd and 6th Avenue branch set up that way because it provides more frequent service combined, otherwise they could have them leave together. Well the QM's in general the past few weeks have been running late because of the UN General Assembly meetings. Yes, but that's less of a problem now that Obama has left. Yesterday wasn't bad at all. The UN General Assembly usually becomes tolerable once the major players leave. The main issue is that they shut down so many damn streets that it becomes impossible to go anywhere from 1st to 7th Avenue with the rolling street closures. Edited October 2, 2015 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted October 3, 2015 Share #4284 Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Didn't get the chance to respond yesterday because I was very busy, and only stopped by for a short post: 1. As someone who relies on express buses in my area, I would say YES, without a question. Staten Island doesn't have those headways because the is footing the bill, but those buses certainly ARE crowded and can be SRO, so they should have more service along those lines. I know first hand from using them over the years, and I still use them during those times to and from Staten Island and the city. It goes back to what I said earlier about the city wanting to provide reasonable transportation services to isolated areas of the city and since the city funds Bus from a service standpoint, it allows the to provide reasonable service to those areas served by Bus. 2. I have been attending numerous transportation meetings across the city about this very issue in Queens, the Bronx, Manhattan and Brooklyn, and there are a number of plans underway to bring more transportation options to various neighborhoods. It's very frustrating to see that people don't understand that some areas of the city don't have subways and that those areas ARE at a disadvantage as a result. We can talk about how if you want because these topics were indeed discussed at the meetings by residents, business owners, workers and politicians alike. You have subway service nearby in your area, but for those who live really far out in Queens, many of them drive to the express buses along Union Turnpike, which makes sense given the location of it. I see it as a main corridor for certain areas of Northeast Queens. Those people along with other riders would be the ones hurt by service cuts. Then you also forget about people who work late who need some sort of service, and hourly service stinks if there are delays or buses break down. For example, those who work in hospitals or other areas late at night.... They need to be at work. Those are the people who will just abandon using the service if it is infrequent and unreliable and that's what the city wants to improve upon... They all pay taxes, so why should they be discriminated against because they work odd hours? This is a city where more people DON'T work a 9-5 job. The is starting to understand this which is why they're slowly improving subway service outside of rush hour, and this should be consistent across the board with other transportation services such as express buses. We WANT people using mass transit ACROSS THE CITY, and there needs to be a balance between reasonable service and waste, which I believe the has found at the moment, but could improve upon here and there. New York City LOSES TONS of money in traffic congestion which effects businesses and workers alike and that needs to change, and that was a big talking point at the transportation meetings I attended. They were all about ALTERNATIVES to the subway that can be up and running quickly and can complement it. 1. It's not always that the MTA is footing the bill. There are occasions where there isn't money to do a specific change, but that's virtually across the board too, not just at NYCT. You have to look at boarding guidelines too. For example (Imma use the QM15 here), there are time periods where the QM15 runs on a rather large headway (evening), but still gains almost an SRO load. Why aren't they adding more service there? The headway, being every 60 minutes, is too large to justify breaking the ridership into two buses (furthermore, I don't even think that would work at all, you'd still have people on the bus after still crowding it). That may work on the weekend buses, like the BxM's, but that would not happen on weekdays. Saturdays, obviously the ridership levels and peaks aren't the same as weekdays, and guidelines are different. Going back to Staten Island vs Queens, those buses do get used, no doubt about that. The QM's get used, but let's be serious here, ridership is very minuscule going to Manhattan at that same corresponding time (evening), I know that, and I'm sure you know it as well. They have service for a long span. Now, the Union Turnpike corridor gets 30 minute service west of 188 Street. The X1, and X10 have 60 minute headways to Manhattan, the X17 stops running at about 4 PM to Midtown. There's NO way that the service matches that of the X1 or X10 to Manhattan. Are they all warranted: no. However, for routes like the QM2, where besides for the short segment in Mitchell Gardens, it doesn't duplicate or run alongside any other express bus, that service I would most likely spare. The amount of QM5/6 service at that time to Manhattan is overserved. I would just keep the QM6 there and call it a day, because the QM6 actually does serve areas with no other corresponding bus or subway service. The QM5 would be sent to Jewel, to cover the QM4, which also doesn't need service that late. You do the job of two buses into one with the QM5 combo routing. There is no need for an 11:00 PM to Manhattan only serving Jewel west of 164 and the little section on 164. There would be more riders on that bus to begin with, even if each segment gathered one rider each. 2. You can bring up the disadvantage of being away from the subway or bus argument all you want, but that still doesn't convince me that the one rider per bus on 30 minute headways is needed. Yes, Union Turnpike is important in terms of express bus service. NE Queens has the option to drive to the QM2 to, if they drive, or even the LIRR. More people drive to that than the QM5/QM6. Also, I'm not forgetting about anyone, because the QM6 is still there as is (running until 11:30 PM to Manhattan), It's just that from about 6 PM to 12 AM, the headway will be every hour. I don't see what is so horrible. If you use the 188 Street stop, you can still go to 73 Avenue and catch the QM5 there, that's if one really depends on that bus). It still isn't a significant amount of ridership that would be affected in the first place. I understand that people are far from the city, but do we really need such buses running inefficiently like that? There answer is no, there are ways that costs can be reduced while still maintaining the spans for most buses. Now, would it be kinda huge to just reroute the QM5 off Union at all times during Sundays, probably. However, there should be no problem with doing that in the evening, when ridership is lowest to Manhattan. Furthermore, hourly headways exists throughout the rest of the express bus network, well of MTABC,. Everyone gets used to it. The chance of breakdown in the first place is pretty slim, you'd have a better chance of a bus breaking down during the rush hour, so I don't know why breakdown was brought up in the first place. Using that logic, the Q67 on the weekends in my area should run every 30 minutes in because breakdowns can happen and people would be waiting a long time (which actually did happen once on a Sunday), and every other express bus should run every 30 minutes. Yes it's unfortunate, but given how more priority is given to express bus coaches to be maintained in certain depots, there's a slim chance of happening. As for the paying taxes, that's moot, because these cuts happen ALL over the system, regardless of what neighborhood it is. Local bus is cut, subway service is reduced, then more local service is reduced. Why does that happen: because people haven't used it to the full potential. Yes, this happens no matter if you paid your taxes or not. Remember when the Q74, Q75, and Q79 was discontinued, or the X51? Remember the discontinuation of the Q76 on Saturdays. They weren't efficient enough to run, especially during the time of the 2010 service cuts (the 74 IMO was the more efficient, but that's a different story). Same thing as the Q26, which is a shadow of itself, running rush hours only (when it previously ran 24/7).Point is, if you're running the service, you better have a suitable amount of riders on it. That applies for local and express bus service. Of course some buses will run with low ridership, but as long as it goes in both direction in revenue service (with the return trip having more riders) I don't really care nor mind. That is NOT the case with the CP buses, however. Very few evening trips on the QM2/4/5/6 that go to Manhattan make a return trip to Queens in revenue service, and they don't carry much of anyone (with it being like that for YEARS), or like one rider. That's just a waste of resources and money, some of that being the very same taxes we all pay anyways. Until they resolve that logistical problem, there's no way all that service should be kept running as is. Even if you try to fix it, you'll have several buses left over without a bus trip back to Queens. And you still have the Q64 that runs two buses crushloaded to Forest Hills every three minutes. I don't really see service running every 5 minutes like you claim. I took a look at the schedule and 3rd and 6th Ave service run every 15 minutes for each branch and leave from 164st Elechester 5 minutes apart and then a 10 minute gap again and it continues like that until I believe around 8:30am. So people in Elechester and along Jewel until Main are not utilizing the QM4 because people can still get a seat on the Q64. However I notice more people are utilizing the QM4 at Main and afterward when the Q64 tends to be packed or SRO. Back to the scheduling no mattar how you look at it if I needed 6th Ave I would have to wait 15 minutes especially if I just missed one because the 3rd Ave bus would work for me unless my destination is equally distant between both routings. Just to be clear, plenty of people that work in between 6th and 3rd switch between the two branches. It's not that far. The only way someone would just have to get the QM4 6th Avenue branch is if they're wayyy on the West side. The point is that the two branches combined provide pretty decent rush hour service to Manhattan and when push comes to shove, a bus to Manhattan (be it 6th or 3rd Avenue) works. Believe me, when I need an express bus to Manhattan, I don't care if it's a West Side of East Side bus. I worry about that once I get into the city, which is what a lot of people do unless they are really far on the West Side or East Side, but the difference in the distances for most is 10 - 15 minutes tops. Nothing particularly horrendous. I know people that walk from the East Side to the Port Authority daily. That's one of the reasons you have the 3rd and 6th Avenue branch set up that way because it provides more frequent service combined, otherwise they could have them leave together. To NewFlyer. I'm going to have to agree with him on that stance. Especially since it takes 10 minutes to cross 57 Street, you're sometimes better off walking to 3 Avenue. The QM24 is set up like that too. 6 Avenue service was more frequent than what it currently is, but because the MTA would rather save money, they try to cram everyone onto the 3 Avenue bus. That way the people who use the QM24 are the ones coming from the actually West Side and 6 Avenue, and then it would justify reducing service, since the number is pretty low. If you have an unlimited express bus pass, you can also take the crosstown buses, since most stop are near the crosstown buses anyways. However, if physically able, it's much better to walk to 3 Avenue. Edited October 3, 2015 by BM5 via Woodhaven 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 3, 2015 Share #4285 Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Didn't get the chance to respond yesterday because I was very busy, and only stopped by for a short post: 1. It's not always that the MTA is footing the bill. There are occasions where there isn't money to do a specific change, but that's virtually across the board too, not just at NYCT. You have to look at boarding guidelines too. For example (Imma use the QM15 here), there are time periods where the QM15 runs on a rather large headway (evening), but still gains almost an SRO load. Why aren't they adding more service there? The headway, being every 60 minutes, is too large to justify breaking the ridership into two buses (furthermore, I don't even think that would work at all, you'd still have people on the bus after still crowding it). That may work on the weekend buses, like the BxM's, but that would not happen on weekdays. Saturdays, obviously the ridership levels and peaks aren't the same as weekdays, and guidelines are different. Going back to Staten Island vs Queens, those buses do get used, no doubt about that. The QM's get used, but let's be serious here, ridership is very minuscule going to Manhattan at that same corresponding time (evening), I know that, and I'm sure you know it as well. They have service for a long span. Now, the Union Turnpike corridor gets 30 minute service west of 188 Street. The X1, and X10 have 60 minute headways to Manhattan, the X17 stops running at about 4 PM to Midtown. There's NO way that the service matches that of the X1 or X10 to Manhattan. Are they all warranted: no. However, for routes like the QM2, where besides for the short segment in Mitchell Gardens, it doesn't duplicate or run alongside any other express bus, that service I would most likely spare. The amount of QM5/6 service at that time to Manhattan is overserved. I would just keep the QM6 there and call it a day, because the QM6 actually does serve areas with no other corresponding bus or subway service. The QM5 would be sent to Jewel, to cover the QM4, which also doesn't need service that late. You do the job of two buses into one with the QM5 combo routing. There is no need for an 11:00 PM to Manhattan only serving Jewel west of 164 and the little section on 164. There would be more riders on that bus to begin with, even if each segment gathered one rider each. 2. You can bring up the disadvantage of being away from the subway or bus argument all you want, but that still doesn't convince me that the one rider per bus on 30 minute headways is needed. Yes, Union Turnpike is important in terms of express bus service. NE Queens has the option to drive to the QM2 to, if they drive, or even the LIRR. More people drive to that than the QM5/QM6. Also, I'm not forgetting about anyone, because the QM6 is still there as is (running until 11:30 PM to Manhattan), It's just that from about 6 PM to 12 AM, the headway will be every hour. I don't see what is so horrible. If you use the 188 Street stop, you can still go to 73 Avenue and catch the QM5 there, that's if one really depends on that bus). It still isn't a significant amount of ridership that would be affected in the first place. I understand that people are far from the city, but do we really need such buses running inefficiently like that? There answer is no, there are ways that costs can be reduced while still maintaining the spans for most buses. Now, would it be kinda huge to just reroute the QM5 off Union at all times during Sundays, probably. However, there should be no problem with doing that in the evening, when ridership is lowest to Manhattan. Furthermore, hourly headways exists throughout the rest of the express bus network, well of MTABC,. Everyone gets used to it. The chance of breakdown in the first place is pretty slim, you'd have a better chance of a bus breaking down during the rush hour, so I don't know why breakdown was brought up in the first place. Using that logic, the Q67 on the weekends in my area should run every 30 minutes in because breakdowns can happen and people would be waiting a long time (which actually did happen once on a Sunday), and every other express bus should run every 30 minutes. Yes it's unfortunate, but given how more priority is given to express bus coaches to be maintained in certain depots, there's a slim chance of happening. As for the paying taxes, that's moot, because these cuts happen ALL over the system, regardless of what neighborhood it is. Local bus is cut, subway service is reduced, then more local service is reduced. Why does that happen: because people haven't used it to the full potential. Yes, this happens no matter if you paid your taxes or not. Remember when the Q74, Q75, and Q79 was discontinued, or the X51? Remember the discontinuation of the Q76 on Saturdays. They weren't efficient enough to run, especially during the time of the 2010 service cuts (the 74 IMO was the more efficient, but that's a different story). Same thing as the Q26, which is a shadow of itself, running rush hours only (when it previously ran 24/7).Point is, if you're running the service, you better have a suitable amount of riders on it. That applies for local and express bus service. Of course some buses will run with low ridership, but as long as it goes in both direction in revenue service (with the return trip having more riders) I don't really care nor mind. That is NOT the case with the CP buses, however. Very few evening trips on the QM2/4/5/6 that go to Manhattan make a return trip to Queens in revenue service, and they don't carry much of anyone (with it being like that for YEARS), or like one rider. That's just a waste of resources and money, some of that being the very same taxes we all pay anyways. Until they resolve that logistical problem, there's no way all that service should be kept running as is. Even if you try to fix it, you'll have several buses left over without a bus trip back to Queens. YES, you COULD certainly cut service. The question is would it be wise to do so? I'm not thinking about cost, but rather marketability of service LONG TERM. From a cost standpoint there is A LOT of bus service that could be cut ACROSS THE CITY, not just on Union Turnpike. I could certainly think of X10 trips that could be cut but I wouldn't cut them. Why? Because it would do more harm than good for growth AND for the attractiveness of the service overall. Sometimes you can't just look at the cost of service. You have to look at other factors. I've spoken with quite a few people that don't use the express bus when there are hour headways because of the long waits. Things do happen and if you can't get one bus you could be waiting an hour or more for the next one, which has happened to me plenty of times and it sucks because you just want to get home. We're talking about ONE QM5 per hour and ONE QM6 per hour off-peak in a borough that has a handful of buses running off-peak 7 days a week (QM2, QM4, QM5 and QM6), all of which run HOURLY. Union Turnpike is also fairly convenient for residents of Southeast Queens that have NO express bus service off-peak to get to should they want to use the express bus into the city and drive up there. The two lines serve a multitude of neighborhoods with limited quick options to the city and no subway. For someone who complains about not having express bus service outside of the rush in the immediate area, you sure as hell don't seem to care much about the tough commutes of other areas. There's one other thing you're forgetting about... The unions... I'm sure they would fight tooth and nail to ensure that a certain amount of trips are kept and not cut. Edited October 3, 2015 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAlam Posted October 3, 2015 Share #4286 Posted October 3, 2015 Although I'm not going to really interpret whether or not BM5 idea is a good one or not. Queens has a lot of room for restructuring, especially considering the roads these buses travel on making, travel inefficient for many current and potential riders. With the exception to Woodhaven blvd because I don't have enough ridership knowledge on that portion of the route. A lot of these lines have a lot more potential then they are showing. Even with buses that are doing "well," there are still a lot of seats that could be filled but aren't being filled. pretty much a lot of change need to happen on most MTAB Express routes cause a lot of them a struggling off peak. NYCTS on the other hand their off peak expressus routes are actually doing good even with the X17 BS and they need more service. Why? cause they are structure pretty well for their environment.The MTA should not be running a bus for two people especially if there is a lot of room to increase ridership. I'm not going to post my ideas today but BM5's proposal did make me think a little about what I would want to do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 3, 2015 Share #4287 Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) combined.... just see below... Edited October 3, 2015 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 3, 2015 Share #4288 Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Where was these suggesting of cuts (big or small) of the union tpke. expresses when they ran as the QM1/a..... .....The QM4, QM5 and QM6 all saw ridership gains last year, and the QM1, QM5 and QM6 are all branches if you will of the old QM1...... Which I'll use to segue into saying this.... Other than the staunch express bus haters over on subchat (the ones that claim ALL expresses should be done with), I don't remember much of anyone on these transit boards suggesting cuts to the (when they were dubbed) QM1/a..... Ever since the differing patterns got their own route number though, it's been a different story.... As far as BM5 in particular goes, I've said this on here before.... I think there's something he's purposefully not disclosing in his suggestions of cuts regarding the union tpke. expresses..... Edited October 3, 2015 by B35 via Church 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 3, 2015 Share #4289 Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Where was these suggesting of cuts (big or small) of the union tpke. expresses when they ran as the QM1/a..... Which I'll use to segue into saying this.... Other than the staunch express bus haters over on subchat (the ones that claim ALL expresses should be done with), I don't remember much of anyone on these transit boards suggesting cuts to the (when they were dubbed) QM1/a..... Ever since the differing patterns got their own route number though, it's been a different story.... As far as BM5 in particular goes, I've said this on here before.... I think there's something he's purposefully not disclosing in his suggestions of cuts regarding the union tpke. expresses..... lol... I agree... I think the agenda on his end is to restructure Union Turnpike so that some other area of Queens can get express bus service. I think Union Turnpike is a main corridor that the serves the way that it does for network coverage. Once expanded ferry service starts up in 2017-2018, fewer areas of Queens with limited transportation options will come into play, and that includes the Rockaways and parts of Astoria. Although I'm not going to really interpret whether or not BM5 idea is a good one or not. Queens has a lot of room for restructuring, especially considering the roads these buses travel on making, travel inefficient for many current and potential riders. With the exception to Woodhaven blvd because I don't have enough ridership knowledge on that portion of the route. A lot of these lines have a lot more potential then they are showing. Even with buses that are doing "well," there are still a lot of seats that could be filled but aren't being filled. pretty much a lot of change need to happen on most MTAB Express routes cause a lot of them a struggling off peak. NYCTS on the other hand their off peak expressus routes are actually doing good even with the X17 BS and they need more service. Why? cause they are structure pretty well for their environment.The MTA should not be running a bus for two people especially if there is a lot of room to increase ridership. I'm not going to post my ideas today but BM5's proposal did make me think a little about what I would want to do. Listen Staten Island has NO other alternatives so it's the express bus or take the local bus to the ferry to the subway or another bus to complete one's trip, so the only way that ridership will fall is if the economy tanks and/or traffic becomes so horrible that folks just can't stand it. Believe me, as a former Staten Island resident, there were times that I wanted to pull my hair out sitting on the express bus coming crawling on the Gowanus, but the alternative was just as bad, so I put up with it until I could move. Staten Island express buses aren't structured OH SO GREAT as you are stating. It's more about lack of options out there. The issue in Queens is more about too much traffic and people using alternatives such as the LIRR. I wouldn't restructure too much in Queens because most of the express buses run during peak periods, and those running off-peak are in areas that are away from the LIRR. Service that runs out there off-peak is usually for network coverage, so you don't just cut that because there's only a few people riding. I've been on Metro-North trains and LIRR trains where there were only a few people riding. Do we cut that too? Edited October 3, 2015 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAlam Posted October 3, 2015 Share #4290 Posted October 3, 2015 I wouldn't restructure too much in Queens because most of the express buses run during peak periods, and those running off-peak are in areas that are away from the LIRR. Service that runs out there off-peak is usually for network coverage, so you don't just cut that because there's only a few people riding. I've been on Metro-North trains and LIRR trains where there were only a few people riding. Do we cut that too? When did I say to cut it? I agree with you that service shouldn't be cut, instead these buses should be restructured so that they can get as many passengers as possible, also I want it expanded in some other areas where the bus already travels through but does not stop at. Well looks like its time to throw in my ideas. Why not have the QM1/4 do pick ups and drop offs along Queens blvd, up until Woodhaven blvd. Since these buses are going shorter distance, have space for more people, and there are already taking this route. To my knowledge there are a decent amount of senior citizen in that area where the service could be utilized. Furthermore if it only attracts one ride per bus, it wouldn't affect too much because it technically still takes the same route. please don't give me that service road vs main road BS, with traffic the difference is really little. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 3, 2015 Share #4291 Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) When did I say to cut it? I agree with you that service shouldn't be cut, instead these buses should be restructured so that they can get as many passengers as possible, also I want it expanded in some other areas where the bus already travels through but does not stop at. Well looks like its time to throw in my ideas. Why not have the QM1/4 do pick ups and drop offs along Queens blvd, up until Woodhaven blvd. Since these buses are going shorter distance, have space for more people, and there are already taking this route. To my knowledge there are a decent amount of senior citizen in that area where the service could be utilized. Furthermore if it only attracts one ride per bus, it wouldn't affect too much because it technically still takes the same route. please don't give me that service road vs main road BS, with traffic the difference is really little. I personally wouldn't mind the select QM4 buses making a few more stops and doing them along Queens Blvd. It would be an alternative to the subway and for those that use the X63, X64 and X68 along that corridor in Kew Gardens, but the question is how many more stops and where along Queens Blvd.? Queens Blvd can be a mess traffic wise so I wouldn't go crazy with too many stops. I would also want to know where the ridership would come from before compromising the base ridership of the QM4 by elongating their commutes. Just because you see old people doesn't mean they'll use the bus. Edited October 3, 2015 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAlam Posted October 3, 2015 Share #4292 Posted October 3, 2015 actually to explain the stops I would like to add, I would need to explain my whole plan or it may not make sense. But generally stops would be in between stations and some at stations depending on distance between stops. However I will explain my full idea a bit later because I have to run some errands right now. also me being silly, I forgot to mention that everything I stated, and will sate in the upcoming posts is for off peak only! Unless I say other wise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted October 3, 2015 Share #4293 Posted October 3, 2015 Never knew the Q26 used to run 24/7 years ago. I learned something again by reading. The QM4 making stops along Queens Blvd is something I don't agree with. There is a reason why the QM18 is poorly used as it is. I do sometimes see some elderly people use it at Queens Blvd and 108th street but that is really it. Going back to having the QM5 serve via Jewel Ave on weekends to replace the QM4. I personally feel like it is a lot of rerouting from its current route. Then you have to add the stickers for the QM5 on all the existing stops and say that this is a weekend only service. I would have it remain on Union Turnpike whether it got used or not. Nothing is going to help QM4 gain riders on the weekend because service is pretty dead. I do see a few get on it sometimes but other times it is running completely empty. I mean you could have the QM5 instead of serving Union Turnpike on weekends is go straight onto the LIE from 188th street and that will cut down time and cost of that is the whole purpose of removing it off Union Turnpike during the weekends. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 3, 2015 Share #4294 Posted October 3, 2015 Never knew the Q26 used to run 24/7 years ago. I learned something again by reading. The QM4 making stops along Queens Blvd is something I don't agree with. There is a reason why the QM18 is poorly used as it is. I do sometimes see some elderly people use it at Queens Blvd and 108th street but that is really it. Going back to having the QM5 serve via Jewel Ave on weekends to replace the QM4. I personally feel like it is a lot of rerouting from its current route. Then you have to add the stickers for the QM5 on all the existing stops and say that this is a weekend only service. I would have it remain on Union Turnpike whether it got used or not. Nothing is going to help QM4 gain riders on the weekend because service is pretty dead. I do see a few get on it sometimes but other times it is running completely empty. I mean you could have the QM5 instead of serving Union Turnpike on weekends is go straight onto the LIE from 188th street and that will cut down time and cost of that is the whole purpose of removing it off Union Turnpike during the weekends. And what reason is that? Have you ever even used an express bus before? lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted October 3, 2015 Share #4295 Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) YES, you COULD certainly cut service. The question is would it be wise to do so? I'm not thinking about cost, but rather marketability of service LONG TERM. From a cost standpoint there is A LOT of bus service that could be cut ACROSS THE CITY, not just on Union Turnpike. I could certainly think of X10 trips that could be cut but I wouldn't cut them. Why? Because it would do more harm than good for growth AND for the attractiveness of the service overall. Sometimes you can't just look at the cost of service. You have to look at other factors. I've spoken with quite a few people that don't use the express bus when there are hour headways because of the long waits. Things do happen and if you can't get one bus you could be waiting an hour or more for the next one, which has happened to me plenty of times and it sucks because you just want to get home. We're talking about ONE QM5 per hour and ONE QM6 per hour off-peak in a borough that has a handful of buses running off-peak 7 days a week (QM2, QM4, QM5 and QM6), all of which run HOURLY. Union Turnpike is also fairly convenient for residents of Southeast Queens that have NO express bus service off-peak to get to should they want to use the express bus into the city and drive up there. The two lines serve a multitude of neighborhoods with limited quick options to the city and no subway. For someone who complains about not having express bus service outside of the rush in the immediate area, you sure as hell don't seem to care much about the tough commutes of other areas. There's one other thing you're forgetting about... The unions... I'm sure they would fight tooth and nail to ensure that a certain amount of trips are kept and not cut. While you do have a case against during the daytime on Sunday in my proposal about marketability, I am not going to argue the same case during the evening to Manhattan. Union Turnpike, btw, will still have 30 minute headways from Manhattan back to Queens until 10:30 PM, and 8:30 PM on Sundays, which then the headway would be every 60 minutes. That's still decent anyways, given how most of the ridership on the line comes from East of 188 Street on both the QM5 and QM6 in the first place during the off peak hours, which already have 60 minute headways during that time period in the first place. Most of the BC expresses run like that anyways, save the BxM7. I don't see any long term ridership increase (in significant numbers) during the evening periods, moreso to Manhattan. Eastern Queens can't be compared to Staten Island. Ridership habits are way different there. You could try to gain riders from Nassau at a park-n-ride north of Union Tpke along Lakeville Road, for those far away from the LIRR (they'll also avoid the subway in some cases since they run directly in Midtown). However, with the current service alone, nothing major will happen. Again though, breakdowns are not very frequent, but that's unfortunate regardless. Now, the riders going to Union Turnpike on the weekends is extremely slim in the first place. Rochdale Village, Rosedale, and those areas in southeast Queens utilize the LIRR since the city ticket exists. The city-ticket is obviously cheaper than the express bus, so they'll take advantage of that. Off peak, there's still probably a slim amount of people who go to Union Turnpike anyways, since you have to take two buses alone to Union Turnpike, and SE Queens residents do not generally drive to the express in the first place. Once again, I understand the commuting of neighborhoods away from the subway, however once again, SI'ers tend to use all the service they have. the Eastern Queens use the service they have in their neighborhoods during designated hours, and sometimes, buses aren't even used at all. This goes especially for the service going to Manhattan at night, and going to Queens in the early AM. The difference is, those AM trips to Queens end up doing a Manhattan-bound trip, while those late trip usually end up going back as a deahead to CP, from Manhattan. That's almost a round-trip that's useless. Instead of having all that service do that, the combination will allow for buses to do another evening trip back to Queens, then DH. QM5's and QM6's will still exist at night as well, so the portion east of 188 Street would still end up having the same amount of service to Manhattan (which is fine). If you think what I'm doing is an abomination, look at all the neghborhoods in Queens alone that don't have express buses, which are far out. The Rockaways area has subway service that runs like utter shit, and everybody tries cramming themselves on the Q52/Q53 to the mainland, to catch the there, or continue to the QBL. Look at the Merrick Blvd corridor and Rochdale Village. They have no off-peak service (although they don't have it as bad during the weekends). The QM5/QM6 can run as is during the daytime more or less. During the night, there shouldn't be both that, and the QM4 on Jewel Avenue to Manhattan (Jewel Avenue should not have it's own express bus at night, and there isn't a need for both the QM5/QM6 on Union Turnpike at night. There just isn't. As for the unions, IIRC the contract states that CP has 50 full-time express bus runs per week, or somewhere around that. That number is almost reached alone on weekdays. lol... I agree... I think the agenda on his end is to restructure Union Turnpike so that some other area of Queens can get express bus service. I think Union Turnpike is a main corridor that the serves the way that it does for network coverage. Once expanded ferry service starts up in 2017-2018, fewer areas of Queens with limited transportation options will come into play, and that includes the Rockaways and parts of Astoria. I believe that I already mentioned the purpose of the Jewel Avenue/Union Turnpike changes in my first original post. Some of these runs already run too tightly, and if they do a trip outbound, they always run late. Not enough time is given to the QM5/6 in the PM rush, which is a major problem. If the MTA ran the line network coverage headways on Union Turnpike, there would be one bus every 60 minutes. The only reason the buses run every 30 minutes is because of their routings to/from Manhattan. It's similar to Ocean Avenue in Brooklyn. Are 20 minute headways needed on Saturdays? No, but there's really no way you can structure the service anymore. The original BM4 though went on Nostrand to Flatbush, and then following the BM2 route to Manhattan, but that was decades ago, way before MTA Bus takeover. There are times where the 30 minute headway is actually useful, but then there are times where it's just not needed. When did I say to cut it? I agree with you that service shouldn't be cut, instead these buses should be restructured so that they can get as many passengers as possible, also I want it expanded in some other areas where the bus already travels through but does not stop at. Well looks like its time to throw in my ideas. Why not have the QM1/4 do pick ups and drop offs along Queens blvd, up until Woodhaven blvd. Since these buses are going shorter distance, have space for more people, and there are already taking this route. To my knowledge there are a decent amount of senior citizen in that area where the service could be utilized. Furthermore if it only attracts one ride per bus, it wouldn't affect too much because it technically still takes the same route. please don't give me that service road vs main road BS, with traffic the difference is really little Woodhaven Blvd on the QM10/ QM11 is a stop where a good amount of people people actually are driven to the bus. It would be interesting to see how off peak service would work. However, speaking truthfully, the same stops as the QM18 should be made on Queens Blvd, if it was to be made. That area surprisingly doesn't have a full time express, but it wouldn't hurt to have one. Edited October 3, 2015 by BM5 via Woodhaven 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Bus Co. Posted October 3, 2015 Share #4296 Posted October 3, 2015 Never knew the Q26 used to run 24/7 years ago. It went to weekday-only as part of a huge package of service cuts in the early 1990's. The QM4 making stops along Queens Blvd is something I don't agree with. There is a reason why the QM18 is poorly used as it is. That reason is called the subway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 3, 2015 Share #4297 Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) While you do have a case against during the daytime on Sunday in my proposal about marketability, I am not going to argue the same case during the evening to Manhattan. Union Turnpike, btw, will still have 30 minute headways from Manhattan back to Queens until 10:30 PM, and 8:30 PM on Sundays, which then the headway would be every 60 minutes. That's still decent anyways, given how most of the ridership on the line comes from East of 188 Street on both the QM5 and QM6 in the first place during the off peak hours, which already have 60 minute headways during that time period in the first place. Most of the BC expresses run like that anyways, save the BxM7. I don't see any long term ridership increase (in significant numbers) during the evening periods, moreso to Manhattan. Eastern Queens can't be compared to Staten Island. Ridership habits are way different there. You could try to gain riders from Nassau at a park-n-ride north of Union Tpke along Lakeville Road, for those far away from the LIRR (they'll also avoid the subway in some cases since they run directly in Midtown). However, with the current service alone, nothing major will happen. Again though, breakdowns are not very frequent, but that's unfortunate regardless. Now, the riders going to Union Turnpike on the weekends is extremely slim in the first place. Rochdale Village, Rosedale, and those areas in southeast Queens utilize the LIRR since the city ticket exists. The city-ticket is obviously cheaper than the express bus, so they'll take advantage of that. Off peak, there's still probably a slim amount of people who go to Union Turnpike anyways, since you have to take two buses alone to Union Turnpike, and SE Queens residents do not generally drive to the express in the first place. Once again, I understand the commuting of neighborhoods away from the subway, however once again, SI'ers tend to use all the service they have. the Eastern Queens use the service they have in their neighborhoods during designated hours, and sometimes, buses aren't even used at all. This goes especially for the service going to Manhattan at night, and going to Queens in the early AM. The difference is, those AM trips to Queens end up doing a Manhattan-bound trip, while those late trip usually end up going back as a deahead to CP, from Manhattan. That's almost a round-trip that's useless. Instead of having all that service do that, the combination will allow for buses to do another evening trip back to Queens, then DH. QM5's and QM6's will still exist at night as well, so the portion east of 188 Street would still end up having the same amount of service to Manhattan (which is fine). If you think what I'm doing is an abomination, look at all the neghborhoods in Queens alone that don't have express buses, which are far out. The Rockaways area has subway service that runs like utter shit, and everybody tries cramming themselves on the Q52/Q53 to the mainland, to catch the there, or continue to the QBL. Look at the Merrick Blvd corridor and Rochdale Village. They have no off-peak service (although they don't have it as bad during the weekends). The QM5/QM6 can run as is during the daytime more or less. During the night, there shouldn't be both that, and the QM4 on Jewel Avenue to Manhattan (Jewel Avenue should not have it's own express bus at night, and there isn't a need for both the QM5/QM6 on Union Turnpike at night. There just isn't. As for the unions, IIRC the contract states that CP has 50 full-time express bus runs per week, or somewhere around that. That number is almost reached alone on weekdays. I just think it's a little hypocritical for you to point out the lack of transportation options to various neighborhoods in Queens that are far out with few options, and then turn around and complain about a few situations in which areas have one or two express buses serving them because they don't get the amount of ridership that you think they should have. I got news for you.... Not all of those X10 buses are well used either, but I don't see the point in cutting them, nor do I see any huge savings in this set up you're proposing. In short, yes, they can be cut for savings, but bus service overall is in the toilet precisely because so much service has been cut in the first place, so I say leave it alone and let those communities have the little service that they have. If you look at most express bus service that have lines that run 7 days, most of them have similar schedules in terms of the span and frequency (off-peak). Would you like to cut some of the other lines too? I can think of a lot of them, but that would just further isolate those communities and make getting to the city a hassle. That reason is called the subway. You mean the one that's packed to the rafters along Queens Blvd? That subway? Edited October 3, 2015 by Via Garibaldi 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAlam Posted October 3, 2015 Share #4298 Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) im not done yet sorry Edited October 3, 2015 by IAlam 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAlam Posted October 3, 2015 Share #4299 Posted October 3, 2015 Okay time to explain my idea fully. Keep in mind everything I say is for off peak only unless stated otherwise. *Note: - I decide to throw in a few other from the previous topic being discussed - Some things won't make sense without read other parts of my proposal 1) QM1 * Extend operating hours to 9PM (Manhattan bound) * Extend operating hours to 11PM (Queens bound) * Last bus to Manhattan is also last bus to Queens * Add additional stops Manhattan bound @: - QUEENS BLVD/ 78 AV - QUEENS BL/75 AV - QUEENS BL/72 AV - QUEENS BL/70 AV - QUEENS BL/67 AV - QUEENS BL/63 DR - WOODHAVEN BL/HOFFMAN DR - For all buses departing after 9AM * Add additional stops Queens bound @: - QUEENS BL/ELIOT AV - QUEENS BL/63 DR - QUEENS BL/66 AV - QUEENS BL/YELLOWSTONE BL - QUEENS BL/71 AV - QUEENS BL/72 AV - QUEENS BL/75 AV - UNION TP/QUEENS BL - From 9:30AM-4PM and 7PM-11PM * Peak Service added (3rd ave) (To replace QM5) - change interval from 15 min to 10 mim * Weekend Service added (To replace QM5) - Saturday * Manhattan bound 6:50AM-8:50PM (hourly) * Queens bound 9AM-11PM (hourly) - Sunday * Manhattan bound 7:50AM-7:50PM (hourly) * Queens bound 10AM-10PM (hourly) 2) QM2/20 * Add additional stops going to Manhattan @ - Horace Harding Exp/Van Cleef St - HORACE HARDING EXP/WESTSIDE AV - From all buses departing after 10AM - For Queens bound service refer to QM4 3) QM3 (Peak service) * Extend operating hours to 6:10AM-11:10AM (Manhattan bound) - 6:10 - 6:40 - 7:00 - 7:20 - 7:40 - 8:10 - 8:50 - 9:30 - 10:10 - 11:10 * Extend operating hours to 3:05PM-9:05PM (Queens Bound) - 3:05 - 3:45 - 4:25 - 5:05 - 5:35 - 6:05 - 6:35 - 7:15 - 8:05 - 9:05 *Add additional stop Manhattan bound @ - Northern Bl/Farrington st *Add additional stop Queens bound @ - NORTHERN BL/MAIN ST -Main st stops added to help avoid congestion on . Many rush hour trains leaving Flushing are SRO 4) QM4 (I expect this to be controversial) * Re-route Queens bound buses to negate traffic and to provided Queens bound service that is not provided by QM2/20 (All times) - datails: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/40.7328621,-73.8690792/40.7258895,-73.8372655/@40.7322491,-73.8461885,14z/data=!4m3!4m2!3e0!5i2 * Add additional stops Queens bound @ - Horace Harding Exp/Queens Bl (Off peak only) - HORACE HARDING EXP/JUNCTION BL (Off peak only) - HORACE HARDING EXP/99 ST (Off peak only) - HORACE HARDING EXP/108 ST (Off peak only) - Grand Central Pky/62 Dr (All times) - Grand Central Pky/64 Rd (All times) - Grand Central Pky/67 Rd (All times) - Grand Central Pky/69 Rd (All times) - For off peak buses from 9:50AM-2:50PM and 7:50PM-11:50PM * Add additional stops Manhattan bound @ - QUEENS BL/67 AV - QUEENS BL/63 DR - WOODHAVEN BL/HOFFMAN DR - For all buses departing after 9AM * Weekend service eliminated (replaced by QM5) 5) QM5 (using BM5's idea) * Modify Peak Express - Change all express buses departing between 7AM-8AM into super expresses similar to QM8 - Reduce QM5 buses from 8min to 10min between 7AM-8AM (To balance out additional QM1 trips) *Reroute Manhattan bound buses - Details: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/188-1-188-99+73rd+Ave,+Fresh+Meadows,+NY+11366/40.7234973,-73.8479376/@40.7346998,-73.8128302,13.25z/data=!4m19!4m18!1m15!1m1!1s0x89c261a5858509e9:0x44da5b616607aa0a!2m2!1d-73.7828522!2d40.7332308!3m4!1m2!1d-73.7918647!2d40.739725!3s0x89c261b25685a3bd:0xb0cd989638be6af9!3m4!1m2!1d-73.8057774!2d40.7317607!3s0x89c260578679d8f5:0x809871fb539cd52b!1m0!3e0 * Additional stops Manhattan bound @ - 188 ST/69 AV - 188 ST/64 AV - HORACE HARDING EXP/188 ST - HORACE HARDING EXP/175 PL - HORACE HARDING EXP/FRESH MEADOW LA - 164 ST/HORACE HARDING EXP - All current QM4 stops - For off peak buses from 9:10AM-11PM * Additional stops Queens bound @ - All current QM4 stops - HORACE HARDING EXP/172 ST - HORACE HARDING EXP/UTOPIA PKY - HORACE HARDING EXP/186 ST - 188 ST/64 AV - 188 ST/186 LA #1 - For all off peak buses from 8:45AM-3;45PM from 7:40PM-12AM * All weekend service goes along off peak route (current route replaced by QM1) 6) QM8 *Modify AM super express route - Additional Manhattan bound stops @ *HORACE HARDING EXP/188 ST * HORACE HARDING EXP/175 PL * HORACE HARDING EXP/FRESH MEADOW LA 7) QM9/20 (Peak service)(This is about the controversial College Point route if it were to be added, through my vision of course) *New peak service QM9 - Details: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zcqONe0r0_J8.kPpqZLsbT6s8&usp=sharing * 3 departures every morning - 7:00AM - 7:30AM - 8:00AM * 3 departures in the evening - 5:00PM - 5:30PM - 6:00PM - During this time the corresponding QM20 departures become 3rd ave buses * QM20 via 3rd ave - 7:02AM - 7:34AM - 8:02AM * QM20 from 3rd ave - 5:00PM - 5:30PM - 6:00PM * QM20 super express - 5:08 keep - swap 5:30 bus and 5:23 super express - move 5:38 super express to 5:45 Notes: -The QM1/4/5/6 schedule would need to be readjusted so that the QM1 and QM5 and the QM4 and QM6 runs parallel to one another. this way the intervals on portions of the route that have more than one bus have bihourly service. - The reason I chose the QM2/20 in going one way and the QM4 going the other is because the the QM2/20 already go that way the bus will not need to be re routed to make those additional stops. However there is no point in modifying the return trip in going that way so I chose the QM4 instead also it would be in interesting method to negate traffic. - My idea of the QM9 is to allow College Point riders to have express service but at the same time allow an opportunity for QM20 riders to have an 3rd ave bus with the QM9 filling in those gaps. - One of my schedule times are exact rather guesstimates of expected times or good times. - Anything referring to service hours is when a bus departs its terminus. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted October 3, 2015 Share #4300 Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) I just think it's a little hypocritical for you to point out the lack of transportation options to various neighborhoods in Queens that are far out with few options, and then turn around and complain about a few situations in which areas have one or two express buses serving them because they don't get the amount of ridership that you think they should have. I got news for you.... Not all of those X10 buses are well used either, but I don't see the point in cutting them, nor do I see any huge savings in this set up you're proposing. In short, yes, they can be cut for savings, but bus service overall is in the toilet precisely because so much service has been cut in the first place, so I say leave it alone and let those communities have the little service that they have. If you look at most express bus service that have lines that run 7 days, most of them have similar schedules in terms of the span and frequency (off-peak). Would you like to cut some of the other lines too? I can think of a lot of them, but that would just further isolate those communities and make getting to the city a hassle. You completely missed my point with the Rockaways and Rochdale Village examples. Yes, they don't have service compared to Eastern Queens, but there has to be a reason why they have only rush hour and limited evening service. Could it be that there's not enough of a justification for the service. The QM16 would be longer a bit longer than the QM5, which means that the cost to run in service would be more. There has to be a decent farebox ratio in order to continue running the service. Would you run the service if it hypothetically had 1-3 riders per bus? Answer me that honestly. Yes, I know some trips on the X10 don't have stellar ridership, however, it's not like they DH to the depot (if it was a Manhattan bound bus) or DH to Manhattan (if it came from the depot). That's exactly what's happening with these trips. They are either empty or with one rider going to the city at night, and then DH to CP. It's such a gargantuan waste of money. And no, most of the 7 day expresses do not have a set of service running every 30 minutes that late, all day. I don't see the evening BxM3-BxM11 (except the BxM7), the QM2, nor the QM4 running every 30 minutes all day weekdays and Saturday evenings in both directions, and throughout the day on Sunday with 30 minute headways. The only exception is the BxM7, the X1, 10, and 17. To make matters worse, some of them even had that type of headway (30 minute headway) during middays on weekdays and through the evening, but were cut, because they weren't used (BxM3, BxM4, QM4). Does having all express buses going into Manhattanat night every 30 minutes sound good for you? You would attract a MASSIVE amount of ridership, because look at Union Turnpike... Jewel Avenue is slightly overserved on Weekdays, and definitely on the weekends. Whether you want to see it or not, it's the truth. Same goes for Union Turnpike during certain parts of the day. The QM4 has a little less than 40 riders more than the QM15 per weekend as a comparison, and 7 less people than the BxM4 per weekend. If the QM15 runs Saturdays Only, and the QM4 runs on Sundays as well, and you even look at the corresponding service levels, you will be amazed. The BxM4 and QM4 have a similar amount of riders per weekend, but the BxM4, unlike the QM4, does not run near any other express bus, while the QM4 ends within proximity of the QM5 travel path in Fresh Meadows (I'm talking about in time, not distance). Besides, the schedule would change on the Jewel Avenue leg 10 minutes more or less, but it shouldn't be a problem at all. If I really wanted to make things a hassle, I would just say f**k it, and would've proposed to eliminate ALL evening service to Manhattan on all three QM's. Edited October 3, 2015 by BM5 via Woodhaven 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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