Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1a. What you're essentially saying is that you think this college pt. route would minimally resemble a similar amt. of avg. pax that the QM21 gets..... The lesser/narrower span than the QM21 part means nothing if you don't state how many trips the college. point route would have within that span.... In other words, would there be the same amt. of trips that the QM21 has within that narrower span? more trips? less trips?

 

1b. I saw both of your routings..... I never said your route runs in Mitchell Gardens (like iAlam's did)....

My exact quote was:

.....From Mitchell Gardens.

The route doesn't have to run in Mitchell Gardens (like the QM20 does) to get pax from Mitchell Gardens (the QM2 does this!).....

 

What I was getting at with that comment, was the notion of even running a college point express route along the Whitestone expwy. service road all the way up to 14th, to get to your target area of northern college point.... That looks to me like the both of you are trying to steal ridership from off the QM2/20.....

 

See, when I was first thinking up a college point route, I had New Flyer's train of thought (instead of having such a route backdoor its way into the northern part of the neighborhood via 14th)... I wanted to try to serve those patrons around college pt blvd b/w 23rd & 28th, as well as northern college point... There's no feasible way to do that w/o bumping into too much industry (or tight residential streets), and there's no way in hell running an express bus clear up college pt. blvd. to 14th > then 127th > 7th > rest of Q25 routing would be favorable, due to how narrow (and worse, commercial) college pt. blvd is in "central" college point (the neighborhood).... Basically the area b/w 14th & 23rd along college pt. blvd..... Bad enough the Q65 has to contend with that..... Ever seen the Q20[a] make that turn from 20th to coll. pt... Some adventure... lol....

 

2. As far as shifting the QM2 to Parsons to have the college pt. exp. route make those stops along the whitestone expwy (service rd.) the Qm2 does, I think that's actually a disservice to the QM2.... Parsons would add more time to the QM2.... You could accomplish the same thing by simply removing QM2 stops along the whitestone expwy & having the college pt. route make those stops instead.... In other words, both the college pt. route & the QM2 would utilize the service rd, but the QM2 wouldn't make stops along it (nonstop along the service rd.).....

 

As I said earlier in this post, I sided w/ New Flyer's train of thought.... Didn't like the idea of such a route "backdooring" its way into the neighborhood either.... To boot, it's not really a college point route at that point.... But I do concur w/ BM5's point about not putting a route on 14th av, due to how poorly used the local route that runs along it, is.... Yes, SI is a special case w/ no subways & all, but I'm still going to make the point that, if we followed that logic, the entire south shore wouldn't have express bus service

 

FTR, I'm not arguing how much usage an express bus could get along 14th av.... My gripe is more the backdooring into college point.

1a. As I stated before, the College Point route would have 11 trips (6 AM, 5 PM), compared to the 16 trips the QM21 has.

 

1b. The point wasn't to steal ridership at all from the QM2/20. The only reason it runs like that it is technically the fastest way to get to the northern section of College Point, compared to going through the south via Linden Place.

 

2. Would it really take more time? I would've thought it getting onto the Whitestone earlier/ off the Whitestone Later would've made the route a bit faster overall, despite the run along Parsons/20 (during rush hours). I know run time would increase during midday hours. As for your plan, that would only be during rush hours, correct?

 

The MTA doesn't have assigned seat today so if someone told me to get off a seat excluding for disabled passengers, I would tell them I paid for my seat and I came here first. If they still complain I'd tell them to F*** off and just blast my music on my phone. I couldn't care less for snobby riders tbh especially if they annoy me. However if I'm asked nicely I wouldn't mind moving as long as I don't have the shotgun seat. If I have the shotgun seat I say the exact same thing tbh.

 

That's only happened to me like in two situations (both on the QM15). However, the irony is that it never occurred during rush hours. It always occurred either during the PM shoulder (before rush period, when the bus starts running every 30 minutes), and with the 8:15 PM bus (when the bus already runs every hour), both on weekdays.

[78 via Stew Leonards]

the least snobbiest bronx express routes are the BxM3 and BxM4. heck, you can get a bus to yourself on them at times

[Via Garibaldi 8]

the least snobbiest bronx express routes are the BxM3 and BxM4. heck, you can get a bus to yourself on them at times

Yes they are the least snobbiest, but I always find it cute when there are snobs, particularly on the BxM4.  It's like please, you live in the ghetto.  You have nothing to be snobby about.  When I tutor in the South Bronx and get on, some of the folks that live along the Grand Concourse have the nerve to be snobby. LOL Most of them are elderly anyway, so they're not even paying the full fare.  Snobby for paying $3.25. LOL

 

The folks in Woodlawn are usually down to earth and that's the most decent middle class neighborhood that the BxM4 goes through.

 

As for the BxM3 there aren't many snobs, but a few perhaps in North Riverdale, but the rest of the areas that the route goes through... Save Van Cortlandt Village and parts of Sedgwick... Please.... Complete ghetto, especially that part of Yonkers that it finishes in. "Ghetto" Square... lol

Edited September 10, 2015 by Via Garibaldi 8

[IAlam]

Usually going off peak gets you on a bus with more down to earth people mostly cause there not as tired and also not in a rush 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Why does the "QUEENS Bus Proposals" thread have all these posts bout BRONX express routes? 

[NewFlyer 230]

Why does the "QUEENS Bus Proposals" thread have all these posts bout BRONX express routes?

Because some people like talking about Bronx express buses and the snobs who use it.

[+Young+]

That makes sense in terms of the Beechhurst folks......

 

As for the BxM1 snobbery....

the least snobbiest bronx express routes are the BxM3 and BxM4........

Yes they are the least snobbiest, but I always find it cute when there are snobs, particularly on the BxM4.....

Why does the "QUEENS Bus Proposals" thread have all these posts bout BRONX express routes? 

 

Folks, please stay on-topic with the QUEENS Bus Proposals and ideas. If you want to talk about The Bronx Bus Proposals/Ideas, you can do so here. There is no need to mix things up between boroughs.

 

Thanks!

[Fresh Pond]

Why does the "QUEENS Bus Proposals" thread have all these posts bout BRONX express routes?

Anything that mentions "express bus" gets turned unto that

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Because some people like talking about Bronx express buses and the snobs who use it.

 

Then use the BRONX proposal thread for that. 

[IAlam]

Your Express bus sensi comes from the Bronx tho for one it wasn't his fault  

[NewFlyer 230]

Then use the BRONX proposal thread for that.

Lol yeah I know I remember discussing about a College Point express bus and then the next time I check, you know who is talking about how the people in his RICH neighborhood use their express buses and then came all that other nonsense.

[B35 via Church]

I thought I replied to this.... Guess I closed the browser window before doing so a couple days ago... Anyway:

 

 

1a. As I stated before, the College Point route would have 11 trips (6 AM, 5 PM), compared to the 16 trips the QM21 has.

 

1b. The point wasn't to steal ridership at all from the QM2/20. The only reason it runs like that it is technically the fastest way to get to the northern section of College Point, compared to going through the south via Linden Place.

 

2. Would it really take more time? I would've thought it getting onto the Whitestone earlier/ off the Whitestone Later would've made the route a bit faster overall, despite the run along Parsons/20 (during rush hours). I know run time would increase during midday hours. As for your plan, that would only be during rush hours, correct?

1a: Where did you state 11 trips on this college point route to me?

 

Regardless, I still don't see how you're gonna pull a similar amount of riders that the Qm21 gets (even if this route had the same amount of trips.... but worse - with 5 less trips), on a route that would go on to serve a bunch of single family homes (aside from the ridership you'd take from off the Qm2/20..... College point is not that big of a residential neighborhood for that - and the northern part of the neighborhood is the most residential at that! But be there as it may....

 

1b: ....I'm not saying the point of a College point route is to steal ridership from the Qm2/20 (that doesn't even make sense).... The point was, if you're confident enough that a College point route would get a justifiable amt. of riders on its own merit/accord, then you wouldn't need to take the Mitchell Gardens folk from off the Qm2/20.....

 

2: Nothing drastic/significant, but I find the current Qm2 routing along the expwy. service rd. a little quicker than when it runs along Parsons...

As for my old plan, I'm not exactly sure what you're questioning... If it's when I said this:
 

You could accomplish the same thing by simply removing QM2 stops along the whitestone expwy & having the college pt. route make those stops instead.... In other words, both the college pt. route & the QM2 would utilize the service rd, but the QM2 wouldn't make stops along it (nonstop along the service rd.).....

...that wasn't a part of the plan I had.... That was a suggestion for your college point route....

 

With my old plan, I had wanted the route to serve the northern & southern residential portions of college point, not just the northern part.....

But in any event, it would have been a rush hour only route, very similar to how the QM3 runs (except it wouldn't have left as early in the AM, since it's not as far away from Manhattan that Little Neck, etc. is..... But yeah, somewhere in the vicinity of 3-4 trips each way..... As opposed to 11 that would only serve the northern portion + Mitchell Gdns - which sounds very ambitious to me, knowing what College Point is......

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I thought I replied to this.... Guess I closed the browser window before doing so a couple days ago... Anyway:

 

 

1a: Where did you state 11 trips on this college point route to me?

 

Regardless, I still don't see how you're gonna pull a similar amount of riders that the Qm21 gets (even if this route had the same amount of trips.... but worse - with 5 less trips), on a route that would go on to serve a bunch of single family homes (aside from the ridership you'd take from off the Qm2/20..... College point is not that big of a residential neighborhood for that - and the northern part of the neighborhood is the most residential at that! But be there as it may....

 

1b: ....I'm not saying the point of a College point route is to steal ridership from the Qm2/20 (that doesn't even make sense).... The point was, if you're confident enough that a College point route would get a justifiable amt. of riders on its own merit/accord, then you wouldn't need to take the Mitchell Gardens folk from off the Qm2/20.....

 

2: Nothing drastic/significant, but I find the current Qm2 routing along the expwy. service rd. a little quicker than when it runs along Parsons...

As for my old plan, I'm not exactly sure what you're questioning... If it's when I said this:

 

...that wasn't a part of the plan I had.... That was a suggestion for your college point route....

 

With my old plan, I had wanted the route to serve the northern & southern residential portions of college point, not just the northern part.....

But in any event, it would have been a rush hour only route, very similar to how the QM3 runs (except it wouldn't have left as early in the AM, since it's not as far away from Manhattan that Little Neck, etc. is..... But yeah, somewhere in the vicinity of 3-4 trips each way..... As opposed to 11 that would only serve the northern portion + Mitchell Gdns - which sounds very ambitious to me, knowing what College Point is......

1a: I don't believe I mentioned 11 trips to you directly, but I did mention it before. If 11 trips is indeed too much, then it can be 8 trips each way (from 6:30 AM to 8 AM, and from 4:30 PM to 6:00 PM). QM2 buses from the 6:30 AM to the 8:03 AM trip would run via Parsons, and non-stop from 20 Avenue to Manhattan, in the PM, the 4:45 PM through 6:03 PM trips would not make any stops until 20 Avenue and Parsons (essentially the height of the rush hour).

 

1b/2: The only stop that nearly serves the proximity of Mitchell Gardens would be the Linden Place stop, which would serve it since the QM2 wouldn't be serving it when this bus serves it, as well as 20 Avenue (which is what you previously suggested). Overall, it would be a service cut for that stops, since the QM20 would essentially be the one bus route to serve it during the rush, along the college point route (Which I'm gonna designate QM22 as a reference). I originally planned to have the route leave at 6:00, one 30 minute interval, then 20 minute, but I guess 30 minute intervals can work as well. I would still have the QM2 serve Parsons during rush to serve residential areas closer than at the Whitestone. Each bus would save 1 minute via the Parsons-20-Whitestone Expwy Main Road. Third Avenue varations would be left unchanged. The PM QM2 super express would not stop at Linden Place, and would instead make it's first stop at 20 Avenue and Parsons. The 25 Road would also see a service cut since the College Point route would stop there instead, but not as frequently as the QM2 or QM20. 

 

Even if it were to still run via the Southern portion of College Point, it would still stop at Linden Place. It passes by so it might as well stop there. It isn't like it's going to elongate the run time.

 

Under an unrelated proposal, the regular PM QM20's leaving 36 Street at 5:10 and 5:30 would begin at 41 Street instead of 36 Street (runtime would remain the same, these buses would leave 41 Street at 5:10 and 5:30 like they do from 36 Street.

Edited September 14, 2015 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[B35 via Church]

1a: I don't believe I mentioned 11 trips to you directly, but I did mention it before. If 11 trips is indeed too much, then it can be 8 trips each way (from 6:30 AM to 8 AM, and from 4:30 PM to 6:00 PM). QM2 buses from the 6:30 AM to the 8:03 AM trip would run via Parsons, and non-stop from 20 Avenue to Manhattan, in the PM, the 4:45 PM through 6:03 PM trips would not make any stops until 20 Avenue and Parsons (essentially the height of the rush hour).

1b/2: The only stop that nearly serves the proximity of Mitchell Gardens would be the Linden Place stop, which would serve it since the QM2 wouldn't be serving it when this bus serves it, as well as 20 Avenue (which is what you previously suggested). Overall, it would be a service cut for that stops, since the QM20 would essentially be the one bus route to serve it during the rush, along the college point route (Which I'm gonna designate QM22 as a reference). I originally planned to have the route leave at 6:00, one 30 minute interval, then 20 minute, but I guess 30 minute intervals can work as well. I would still have the QM2 serve Parsons during rush to serve residential areas closer than at the Whitestone. Each bus would save 1 minute via the Parsons-20-Whitestone Expwy Main Road. Third Avenue varations would be left unchanged. The PM QM2 super express would not stop at Linden Place, and would instead make it's first stop at 20 Avenue and Parsons. The 25 Road would also see a service cut since the College Point route would stop there instead, but not as frequently as the QM2 or QM20. 

 

Even if it were to still run via the Southern portion of College Point, it would still stop at Linden Place. It passes by so it might as well stop there. It isn't like it's going to elongate the run time.

In your plan, you'd have NB buses running along the service rd. up until 14th.... There are a couple of QM2 stops along the expwy b/w Linden place & 14th av.... Linden place is the most utilized stop of them (which isn't saying much, but it's still the most used of the 3 or 4), which is why I'm making a sticking point of only mentioning Mitchell Gardens (the linden pl. stop)..... 20th is seldom used, there's another one that almost never gets used that's b/w linden & 20th, and then there's the 14th av stop (which isn't much more than an unofficial park & ride)....

 

Really, the Qm2/20 shouldn't even be discussed in a college pt. exp. route..... Since you have it (the college pt. exp.) backdooring into the neighborhood via the whitestone service rd, the two routes (Qm2/20) immediately became a topic of discussion... IMO, the QM2/20 shouldn't have to be tinkered with at all, for a route that would very likely garner very low ridership - Forget my prediction, I'll use the comparative exp. route you yourself chose as a reference - the Qm22.... Giving you the benefit of the doubt..... I mean, running Qm2's via Parsons (or having it run nonstop along the whitestone service rd) to me, is a completely separate issue....

 

Lastly, buses that'd serve the southern portion of College pt. would still stop where at linden place?

Can't be the current Qm2 stop, b/c that stop is across linden place on the EB side of the Whitestone expwy.... Buses going on to serve the southern section would have to come off the exit, remain in the left-most lane, and make that left turn on linden place (meaning, buses would be on the same side of the expwy. as the toys r' us.....

Edited September 14, 2015 by B35 via Church

[NewFlyer 230]

Probably talking about the Q25 stop on Linden Place on the same side as the Whitestone Triangle Plaza.

[IAlam]

Looking I was wrong and I made a mistake. I don't believe a College Point express route could sustain itself, but if College Point did want its own route, it would have to act a supplement to an existing route such as the QM20. That's why I originally put them together. However at the same time those supplement buses could be useful for having some 3rd ave QM20 service having the College Point bus filling in the 6th ave gap. Although it's not 100% solid it has potential. Hopefully that clarified what I was thinking at the time.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Aside from the previous discussion, I have a proposal in order to eliminate the excess amount of express bus service and duplication during the evening and weekend period along the Jewel Avenue and the Union Turnpike corridor. Before anyone thinks I'm going to cut a tremendous amount of service, Imma ask you to hold on for a minute.

 

Here's my Proposal:

 

QM4

(Weekdays)

The Current Span to Manhattan: 5:40 AM to 11:00 PM           Proposed: 5:40 AM to 6:00 PM

The current Span to Queens: 9:50 AM to 11:50 PM                Proposed: 9:50 AM to 9:50 PM

 

(Saturdays) 

Current Span to Manhattan: 7:10 AM to 10:10 PM                 Proposed: 7:10 AM to 6:10 PM

Current Span to Queens: 8:40 AM to 11:40 PM                      Proposed: 8:50 AM to 7:50 AM

 

(Sundays)

Current Span to Manhattan: 8:10 AM to 9:10 PM                   Proposed: No Service

Current Span to Queens: 9:40 AM to 10:40 PM                     Proposed: No Service

 

QM5

 

During the day on Weekday and Saturdays, the QM5 will run from Glen Oaks to Midtown via Fresh Meadows and/or Union Turnpike, as currently is. During evenings on Weekday and Saturdays, and all day Sundays, QM5 buses will not run on Union Turmpike. The QM6 will be the only bus serving those stops. Honestly, I don't see why having buses run every 30 minutes at night to Manhattan on Union Turnpike is still occurring. There's too much service on Union Turnpike, and Jewel does not need it's own bus at night. The QM5 will still run via Fresh Meadows, except it will not loop back on 188 Street, rather continue on 188 Street, on the HHE, and down 164 Street following the QM4 route. This route actually cuts down on mileage and is much faster than the current via Fresh Meadows routing, despite it looking like there's plenty of turns. An extra stop will be added at Utopia Parkway as well. This allows for better usage of resource, since the QM5 combo may even save time and makes for more people being on the bus at the same time, reducing the cost per rider. In addition, any QM4's that previously made trips to Manhattan will now DH to Manhattan, saving time as well, despite it not being in passenger service.

 

Trips to Manhattan on Weekdays via Jewel: From the 6:00 PM trip to the 11:00 PM trip. 

Trips to Manhattan on Saturdays via Jewel:  From the 6:30 PM trip to the 9:30 PM trip. 

 

Trips to Queens on Weekdays via Jewel: 11:00 PM and 12:00 AM 

Trips to Queens on Saturdays via Jewel: 9:00 PM-12:00 AM

 

All money saved by this proposal would go back into reorganizing the schedules to allow for more time to be given from end to end (specifically rush hour service) on these routes, and other time periods, if necessary.

 

QM4/QM5/QM6

 

No way do those routes need 20-25 minutes at night on Saturdays or Sundays. That's equivalent to the QM15's runtime from 34 Street to 3 Avenue in the early evening. I would give it 15 minutes at most. 

Edited September 30, 2015 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[aemoreira81]

Aside from the previous discussion, I have a proposal in order to eliminate the excess amount of express bus service and duplication during the evening and weekend period along the Jewel Avenue and the Union Turnpike corridor. Before anyone thinks I'm going to cut a tremendous amount of service, Imma ask you to hold on for a minute.

 

Here's my Proposal:

 

QM4

(Weekdays)

The Current Span to Manhattan: 5:40 AM to 11:00 PM           Proposed: 5:40 AM to 6:00 PM

The current Span to Queens: 9:50 AM to 11:50 PM                Proposed: 9:50 AM to 9:50 PM

 

(Saturdays) 

Current Span to Manhattan: 7:10 AM to 10:10 PM                 Proposed: 7:10 AM to 6:10 PM

Current Span to Queens: 8:40 AM to 11:40 PM                      Proposed: 8:50 AM to 7:50 AM

 

(Sundays)

Current Span to Manhattan: 8:10 AM to 9:10 PM                   Proposed: No Service

Current Span to Queens: 9:40 AM to 10:40 PM                     Proposed: No Service

 

QM5

 

During the day on Weekday and Saturdays, the QM5 will run from Glen Oaks to Midtown via Fresh Meadows and/or Union Turnpike, as currently is. During evenings on Weekday and Saturdays, and all day Sundays, QM5 buses will not run on Union Turmpike. The QM6 will be the only bus serving those stops. Honestly, I don't see why having buses run every 30 minutes at night to Manhattan on Union Turnpike is still occurring. There's too much service on Union Turnpike, and Jewel does not need it's own bus at night. The QM5 will still run via Fresh Meadows, except it will not loop back on 188 Street, rather continue on 188 Street, on the HHE, and down 164 Street following the QM4 route. This route actually cuts down on mileage and is much faster than the current via Fresh Meadows routing, despite it looking like there's plenty of turns. An extra stop will be added at Utopia Parkway as well. This allows for better usage of resource, since the QM5 combo may even save time and makes for more people being on the bus at the same time, reducing the cost per rider. In addition, any QM4's that previously made trips to Manhattan will now DH to Manhattan, saving time as well, despite it not being in passenger service.

 

Trips to Manhattan on Weekdays via Jewel: From the 6:00 PM trip to the 11:00 PM trip. 

Trips to Manhattan on Saturdays via Jewel:  From the 6:30 PM trip to the 9:30 PM trip. 

 

Trips to Queens on Weekdays via Jewel: 11:00 PM and 12:00 AM 

Trips to Queens on Saturdays via Jewel: 9:00 PM-12:00 AM

 

All money saved by this proposal would go back into reorganizing the schedules to allow for more time to be given from end to end (specifically rush hour service) on these routes, and other time periods, if necessary.

 

QM4/QM5/QM6

 

No way do those routes need 20-25 minutes at night on Saturdays or Sundays. That's equivalent to the QM15's runtime from 34 Street to 3 Avenue in the early evening. I would give it 15 minutes at most. 

 

I'd argue that the idea should be considered off-peak on weekdays as well. Other adjustments should be considered as well during the rush so that every express route along Union Turnpike currently has its own unique market. There are just too many empty seats on the QM5 and QM6 to justify its current service levels, but a certain amount must be maintained to meet contractual limits.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I'd argue that the idea should be considered off-peak on weekdays as well. Other adjustments should be considered as well during the rush so that every express route along Union Turnpike currently has its own unique market. There are just too many empty seats on the QM5 and QM6 to justify its current service levels, but a certain amount must be maintained to meet contractual limits.

The QM4 does okay during middays, so I would actually keep those trips. It's just the trips at night which don't do so good. Even 6 PM as the last outbound for the QM4 is more than enough. On Weekdays, I'm trying to maintain all the current service span, but the current service levels would be reduced. It's much worse to outright slash all the service with no replacement, but the QM5 does serve as a decent replacement because Union Turnpike doesn't need the 30 minute intervals to Midtown at that time, so instead of the 2:1 ratio of buses on Union vs Jewel, it's a 1:1, which is more than enough as well. The QM6 without a doubt can handle Union Turnpike during those times alone. 

 

As for the Union Turnpike expresses all getting their own market, I disagree with that. The QM1 during the rush is needed, since the QM5 and QM6 would not be able to handle all the loads by itself. Middays is a different story, but if the QM1 theoretically existed rush hours only, I would only keep it as it is. However, Union Turnpike without a doubt can handle 20-30 minute headways with the QM5 and QM6 only during the middays. QM1 service is simply not needed during middays to Manhattan at all. I've taken the bus during various times during middays. The only bus which does okay was the 11:40 AM trip to Manhattan once, which I believe was because the QM5 set to pass 15 minutes before it was late. Whenever that happens, well that's good for the QM1. However, on a regular basis, doesn't happen. The other buses, 6 riders or so, or less. When you have buses running every 15 minutes, and yet the QM6 doesn't usually pick up anyone after 188 towards Manhattan. The QM6 still has more riders on the bus before 188 than the QM1 on the entire pick-up. The Queens-bound buses, forget about it (it does even worse).

Edited September 30, 2015 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Aside from the previous discussion, I have a proposal in order to eliminate the excess amount of express bus service and duplication during the evening and weekend period along the Jewel Avenue and the Union Turnpike corridor. Before anyone thinks I'm going to cut a tremendous amount of service, Imma ask you to hold on for a minute.

 

Here's my Proposal:

 

QM4

(Weekdays)

The Current Span to Manhattan: 5:40 AM to 11:00 PM           Proposed: 5:40 AM to 6:00 PM

The current Span to Queens: 9:50 AM to 11:50 PM                Proposed: 9:50 AM to 9:50 PM

 

(Saturdays) 

Current Span to Manhattan: 7:10 AM to 10:10 PM                 Proposed: 7:10 AM to 6:10 PM

Current Span to Queens: 8:40 AM to 11:40 PM                      Proposed: 8:50 AM to 7:50 AM

 

(Sundays)

Current Span to Manhattan: 8:10 AM to 9:10 PM                   Proposed: No Service

Current Span to Queens: 9:40 AM to 10:40 PM                     Proposed: No Service

 

QM5

 

During the day on Weekday and Saturdays, the QM5 will run from Glen Oaks to Midtown via Fresh Meadows and/or Union Turnpike, as currently is. During evenings on Weekday and Saturdays, and all day Sundays, QM5 buses will not run on Union Turmpike. The QM6 will be the only bus serving those stops. Honestly, I don't see why having buses run every 30 minutes at night to Manhattan on Union Turnpike is still occurring. There's too much service on Union Turnpike, and Jewel does not need it's own bus at night. The QM5 will still run via Fresh Meadows, except it will not loop back on 188 Street, rather continue on 188 Street, on the HHE, and down 164 Street following the QM4 route. This route actually cuts down on mileage and is much faster than the current via Fresh Meadows routing, despite it looking like there's plenty of turns. An extra stop will be added at Utopia Parkway as well. This allows for better usage of resource, since the QM5 combo may even save time and makes for more people being on the bus at the same time, reducing the cost per rider. In addition, any QM4's that previously made trips to Manhattan will now DH to Manhattan, saving time as well, despite it not being in passenger service.

 

Trips to Manhattan on Weekdays via Jewel: From the 6:00 PM trip to the 11:00 PM trip. 

Trips to Manhattan on Saturdays via Jewel:  From the 6:30 PM trip to the 9:30 PM trip. 

 

Trips to Queens on Weekdays via Jewel: 11:00 PM and 12:00 AM 

Trips to Queens on Saturdays via Jewel: 9:00 PM-12:00 AM

 

All money saved by this proposal would go back into reorganizing the schedules to allow for more time to be given from end to end (specifically rush hour service) on these routes, and other time periods, if necessary.

 

QM4/QM5/QM6

 

No way do those routes need 20-25 minutes at night on Saturdays or Sundays. That's equivalent to the QM15's runtime from 34 Street to 3 Avenue in the early evening. I would give it 15 minutes at most. 

Sorry I have to respond to this because this is ridiculous.  You are cutting express bus service to areas that have limited transportation options to Manhattan, which is what this is about and I have a problem with that.  These are the kinds of proposals that just annoy the hell out of me because they basically say screw the areas with no subway service and/or that have two fare zones (prior to the Metrocard), which is exactly why these areas have express bus service to begin with.  Express buses under normal circumstances are run very similar to a subway.  The stops are spaced the way they are for that reason and the headways to some extent too if there is enough ridership.  The QM4, QM5 and QM6 all saw ridership gains last year, and the QM1, QM5 and QM6 are all branches if you will of the old QM1.  I use the all three buses when I have meetings out in Queens and they sure as hell beat taking the subway and transferring to the crushloaded Q46.  

 

You paint a picture of express bus service being this rosy situation when it is far from that.  While there are some that benefit from having three express buses along Union Turnpike with cushy 15 minute headways during parts of the off-peak periods, not all of them benefit from such a set up depending on how far out they are.  Furthermore, this seems to be an ongoing theme of yours.  This is not the first time you've proposed such reductions in service along Union Turnpike.  I was against it then and I'm against it now.  The city purposely asked the to run these former private lines to provide reasonable service levels to areas of the city that lack subway service where residents have few transit options.  As a matter of fact a few weeks ago I had a meeting in Kew Gardens... Used the QM1 in and the QM5 back.  The QM5 trip was miles faster over taking the subway back.  There were only two of us, but if those buses are going back to the city to return back to Queens, why not have them pick up passengers?

 

I have been speaking with transportation advocates out in Queens and we both agree that many parts of Queens are underserved when it comes to express bus service, as well as other transportation options given how limited subway service can be.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Sorry I have to respond to this because this is ridiculous.  You are cutting express bus service to areas that have limited transportation options to Manhattan, which is what this is about and I have a problem with that.  These are the kinds of proposals that just annoy the hell out of me because they basically say screw the areas with no subway service and/or that have two fare zones (prior to the Metrocard), which is exactly why these areas have express bus service to begin with.  Express buses under normal circumstances are run very similar to a subway.  The stops are spaced the way they are for that reason and the headways to some extent too if there is enough ridership.  The QM4, QM5 and QM6 all saw ridership gains last year, and the QM1, QM5 and QM6 are all branches if you will of the old QM1.  I use the all three buses when I have meetings out in Queens and they sure as hell beat taking the subway and transferring to the crushloaded Q46.  

 

You paint a picture of express bus service being this rosy situation when it is far from that.  While there are some that benefit from having three express buses along Union Turnpike with cushy 15 minute headways during parts of the off-peak periods, not all of them benefit from such a set up depending on how far out they are.  Furthermore, this seems to be an ongoing theme of yours.  This is not the first time you've proposed such reductions in service along Union Turnpike.  I was against it then and I'm against it now.  The city purposely asked the to run these former private lines to provide reasonable service levels to areas of the city that lack subway service where residents have few transit options.  As a matter of fact a few weeks ago I had a meeting in Kew Gardens... Used the QM1 in and the QM5 back.  The QM5 trip was miles faster over taking the subway back.  There were only two of us, but if those buses are going back to the city to return back to Queens, why not have them pick up passengers?

 

I have been speaking with transportation advocates out in Queens and we both agree that many parts of Queens are underserved when it comes to express bus service, as well as other transportation options given how limited subway service can be.

 

Except in the example I'm mentioning (specifically evening service) those buses go to Manhattan and then go back to CP as a DH. I'm not against the use of express buses at all, but there comes a difference between actually having the buses as coverage or because costs can be covered, and just a pure waste of time, money, and mileage. Answer me this question: Does Union Turnpike NEED 30 minute headways until almost 12:00 AM into Manhattan? Service before 6 PM can be manageable, and can be allowed. I'm saying this especially since the last bunch of trips (well, the ones after 9/9:30 PM) do not make a Queens bound trip at all, and sometimes even go without riders being picked up. You don't have to tell me how much better the QM1/5 ride is compared to the subway. I take the QM1 primarily anytime I am in Fresh Meadows and go to Manhattan. Not the QM5 nor the QM6, but the QM1. It's good to have a bus to myself, but is it really worth it? I love the headways, but at the same time I know it's not justified. I would still be able to deal with 30 minute headways. It's not like there's gonna be standees anyways with 2-3 buses per hour instead of 3-4 in the first place. 

 

Not even the X1, or X10 has those headways towards Manhattan that late at night on weekdays. One bus an hour after about 7 PM is not the end of the world on Union Turnpike towards Manhattan. Most other express buses in Queens and the Bronx with a full time express bus run at that headway anyway, save the BxM7. You're gonna tell me those trips are bursting at the seams of ridership? I understand maintaining service for people to use, and I am aware that trips do go back to Queens, but not all of them in service. Furthermore, they're do not have plenty of ridership on those buses to begin with. The QM4-6 have been seeing increased riders? That's great, but I still see the same amount of people per bus outside the rush hour on weekdays. There might've been an increase, but that doesn't mean there's been a increase in riders during the midday, because I'm surely not seeing it. I have heard of ridership increasing on weekends, but again, have they grown during the times I proposed to streamline the services. Well for Sundays yes, but not Saturdays.

 

So what if they have limited transportation options. You don't see me complaining about SI routes running that late into Manhattan, because I know they're decently used and go back anyways. If they don't use it, then what's the point of running them. I understand that there's a point of time where ridership on average dips to a low, but the headway during the evening on Union Turnpike are definitely not warranted. The QM4 is probably the only route where the last few trips actually do go back in service. However, having those buses go back into Manhattan can possibly cut down runtime back to Manhattan, and squeeze it into other intervals. The QM5 doing a combo route would possibly allow for more riders per bus (depends if anyone gets on), and then either go back to Queens or CP as a DH. You'd need less buses in the first place, and the span of service remains the same on both corridors (since the QM6 runs the latest of the Union Turnpike express buses). 

 

During the midday, 30 minute headways are pretty reasonable anyways on the section West of 188 Street. QM5 service runs every hour to Manhattan anyways after 12:10 PM, so the average headway is around 20 minutes to Manhattan. Still pretty reasonable to me; you have local buses running at higher headways during the same time period. I'm sorry, but that section is not as heavily utilized outside the rush hour as it's made to look like. There are riders, no doubt about that, I'm not refuting that. But if you believe busloads of people are getting on during midday hours, especially with the headways it has, which I believe is over saturated. The evenings too, when ridership to Manhattan is at it's lowest, you're gonna complain about a bus every 60 minutes during that time. Let's add 30 minute headways during the evening towards Manhattan on all the other full time express buses in Queens and the Bronx since 60 minutes is considered screwing people over, and then run them all as DH's back to their depot. 

 

The headways on Saturday is much better than the weekdays in terms of reflecting demand. However, evening service, again, do we NEED two buses on Union Turnpike in addition to an extra on Jewel when there can be one on each and affect a significantly small (1%) of the ridership on the line. Union Turnpike gets a bargain compared to the other MTABC express lines, some with even higher ridership than them combined (weekends). 

Edited October 1, 2015 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[NewFlyer 230]

I live one block from the QM4 and I can tell you first hand the QM4 has a lot of empty runs including on the weekends. Rush hours and some midday trips on the QM4 sees good to decent usage. I feel like the QM4 could see even better usage if the Q64 wasn't so frequent.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I live one block from the QM4 and I can tell you first hand the QM4 has a lot of empty runs including on the weekends. Rush hours and some midday trips on the QM4 sees good to decent usage. I feel like the QM4 could see even better usage if the Q64 wasn't so frequent.

Yes, the QM4 does decent during middays, I'm with you on that. Saturdays it's a hit or a miss, but Sundays it's lacking.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Except in the example I'm mentioning (specifically evening service) those buses go to Manhattan and then go back to CP as a DH. I'm not against the use of express buses at all, but there comes a difference between actually having the buses as coverage or because costs can be covered, and just a pure waste of time, money, and mileage. Answer me this question: Does Union Turnpike NEED 30 minute headways until almost 12:00 AM into Manhattan? Service before 6 PM can be manageable, and can be allowed. I'm saying this especially since the last bunch of trips (well, the ones after 9/9:30 PM) do not make a Queens bound trip at all, and sometimes even go without riders being picked up. You don't have to tell me how much better the QM1/5 ride is compared to the subway. I take the QM1 primarily anytime I am in Fresh Meadows and go to Manhattan. Not the QM5 nor the QM6, but the QM1. It's good to have a bus to myself, but is it really worth it? I love the headways, but at the same time I know it's not justified. I would still be able to deal with 30 minute headways. It's not like there's gonna be standees anyways with 2-3 buses per hour instead of 3-4 in the first place. 

 

Not even the X1, or X10 has those headways towards Manhattan that late at night on weekdays. One bus an hour after about 7 PM is not the end of the world on Union Turnpike towards Manhattan. Most other express buses in Queens and the Bronx with a full time express bus run at that headway anyway, save the BxM7. You're gonna tell me those trips are bursting at the seams of ridership? I understand maintaining service for people to use, and I am aware that trips do go back to Queens, but not all of them in service. Furthermore, they're do not have plenty of ridership on those buses to begin with. The QM4-6 have been seeing increased riders? That's great, but I still see the same amount of people per bus outside the rush hour on weekdays. There might've been an increase, but that doesn't mean there's been a increase in riders during the midday, because I'm surely not seeing it. I have heard of ridership increasing on weekends, but again, have they grown during the times I proposed to streamline the services. Well for Sundays yes, but not Saturdays.

 

So what if they have limited transportation options. You don't see me complaining about SI routes running that late into Manhattan, because I know they're decently used and go back anyways. If they don't use it, then what's the point of running them. I understand that there's a point of time where ridership on average dips to a low, but the headway during the evening on Union Turnpike are definitely not warranted. The QM4 is probably the only route where the last few trips actually do go back in service. However, having those buses go back into Manhattan can possibly cut down runtime back to Manhattan, and squeeze it into other intervals. The QM5 doing a combo route would possibly allow for more riders per bus (depends if anyone gets on), and then either go back to Queens or CP as a DH. You'd need less buses in the first place, and the span of service remains the same on both corridors (since the QM6 runs the latest of the Union Turnpike express buses). 

 

During the midday, 30 minute headways are pretty reasonable anyways on the section West of 188 Street. QM5 service runs every hour to Manhattan anyways after 12:10 PM, so the average headway is around 20 minutes to Manhattan. Still pretty reasonable to me; you have local buses running at higher headways during the same time period. I'm sorry, but that section is not as heavily utilized outside the rush hour as it's made to look like. There are riders, no doubt about that, I'm not refuting that. But if you believe busloads of people are getting on during midday hours, especially with the headways it has, which I believe is over saturated. The evenings too, when ridership to Manhattan is at it's lowest, you're gonna complain about a bus every 60 minutes during that time. Let's add 30 minute headways during the evening towards Manhattan on all the other full time express buses in Queens and the Bronx since 60 minutes is considered screwing people over, and then run them all as DH's back to their depot. 

 

The headways on Saturday is much better than the weekdays in terms of reflecting demand. However, evening service, again, do we NEED two buses on Union Turnpike in addition to an extra on Jewel when there can be one on each and affect a significantly small (1%) of the ridership on the line. Union Turnpike gets a bargain compared to the other MTABC express lines, some with even higher ridership than them combined (weekends). 

As someone who relies on express buses in my area, I would say YES, without a question.  Staten Island doesn't have those headways because the is footing the bill, but those buses certainly ARE crowded and can be SRO, so they should have more service along those lines.  I know first hand from using them over the years, and I still use them during those times to and from Staten Island and the city.  It goes back to what I said earlier about the city wanting to provide reasonable transportation services to isolated areas of the city and since the city funds Bus from a service standpoint, it allows the to provide reasonable service to those areas served by Bus.

 

I have been attending numerous transportation meetings across the city about this very issue in Queens, the Bronx, Manhattan and Brooklyn, and there are a number of plans underway to bring more transportation options to various neighborhoods.  It's very frustrating to see that people don't understand that some areas of the city don't have subways and that those areas ARE at a disadvantage as a result.  We can talk about how if you want because these topics were indeed discussed at the meetings by residents, business owners, workers and politicians alike. You have subway service nearby in your area, but for those who live really far out in Queens, many of them drive to the express buses along Union Turnpike, which makes sense given the location of it.  I see it as a main corridor for certain areas of Northeast Queens.  Those people along with other riders would be the ones hurt by service cuts.  Then you also forget about people who work late who need some sort of service, and hourly service stinks if there are delays or buses break down. For example, those who work in hospitals or other areas late at night.... They need to be at work.  Those are the people who will just abandon using the service if it is infrequent and unreliable and that's what the city wants to improve upon... They all pay taxes, so why should they be discriminated against because they work odd hours?  This is a city where more people DON'T work a 9-5 job.  The is starting to understand this which is why they're slowly improving subway service outside of rush hour, and this should be consistent across the board with other transportation services such as express buses. We WANT people using mass transit ACROSS THE CITY, and there needs to be a balance between reasonable service and waste, which I believe the has found at the moment, but could improve upon here and there.  New York City LOSES TONS of money in traffic congestion which effects businesses and workers alike and that needs to change, and that was a big talking point at the transportation meetings I attended.  They were all about ALTERNATIVES to the subway that can be up and running quickly and can complement it.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Via Garibaldi 8

[JFK Depot]

Send the Q7 to the JFK post office via 150th St Cargo Area...

reroute Q6 to the Terminals... So the sign would say Q6 via Sutphin Blvd to JFK Airport Terminal 5

On the very last run of the Q7 which is probably 12:30am

Every other bus on the Q6 would go to the post office

I think people should have another option besides the AirTran coming from that side of Jamaica

Not everyone wants to go up on Hillside to catch the Q3 or is near Farmers to catch that

So the Q6 would be good candidate for a reroute