Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[B35 via Church]

About this old people along Queens Blvd. bit.... From what I've noticed, those "old people" along QB are actually taking the Q60 over the subway, and are doing it for relatively short distances.... Lets say there actually is a latent demand for off peak express bus service along residential QB.... You would be slowing down express bus service - To exacerbate local bus service along QB.

Because certainly, you're not going to have expresses making stops along the main road... Right?

 

The outer lanes are too narrow for as much BPH that the Q60 gets, and what doesn't help are the double-parkers, but those are separate rants for another time...

 

 

You completely missed my point with the Rockaways and Rochdale Village examples. Yes, they don't have service compared to Eastern Queens, but there has to be a reason why they have only rush hour and limited evening service. Could it be that there's not enough of a justification for the service. The QM16 would be longer a bit longer than the QM5, which means that the cost to run in service would be more. There has to be a decent farebox ratio in order to continue running the service. Would you run the service if it hypothetically had 1-3 riders per bus? Answer me that honestly.

This discussion would've never commenced if that were true.....

 

What you probably meant was "should" be.... And if we were to go by that logic, there would not only be express bus service running during peak hours only, but less express bus routes in our system, period.... The MTA violates their own loading guidelines to pander to those (communities) that shout the loudest & possesses the most clout.....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Never knew the Q26 used to run 24/7 years ago. I learned something again by reading.

The QM4 making stops along Queens Blvd is something I don't agree with. There is a reason why the QM18 is poorly used as it is. I do sometimes see some elderly people use it at Queens Blvd and 108th street but that is really it.

Going back to having the QM5 serve via Jewel Ave on weekends to replace the QM4. I personally feel like it is a lot of rerouting from its current route. Then you have to add the stickers for the QM5 on all the existing stops and say that this is a weekend only service. I would have it remain on Union Turnpike whether it got used or not. Nothing is going to help QM4 gain riders on the weekend because service is pretty dead. I do see a few get on it sometimes but other times it is running completely empty. I mean you could have the QM5 instead of serving Union Turnpike on weekends is go straight onto the LIE from 188th street and that will cut down time and cost of that is the whole purpose of removing it off Union Turnpike during the weekends.

Having the stickers be placed isn't so much of a beg deal, because the combination would save money in the first place, and offset the money needed to change the signs.

 

I feel like the QM5 running straight to 188 would make it lose more ridership than via Jewel. See, the whole point here is to save money, but still provide the same span of service to each corridor and partially based on demand. Jewel Avenue doesn't need a bus all to itself at that time of night. I would rather have a combo over the QM4 service being eliminated to Manhattan (piece by piece) during the evening, despite the fact that there isn't much ridership from there in the first place. You still retain the amount of service provided on Jewel and in Fresh Meadows and the QM5 route, while allowing the QM6 to handle Union Turnpike by itself. There's too much redundancy, especially at that time of night. No other area in the express bus system has a similar setup, besides Fingerboard Road, in which both the X1 and X10 stop at. However, that is just one stop, not a whole set or corridor of stops. Also, they used to have BxM10's before run via the BxM6 routing before, so I don't really consider the spinning off of the route from the typical route a  problem. 

Edited October 3, 2015 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

About this old people along Queens Blvd. bit.... From what I've noticed, those "old people" along QB are actually taking the Q60 over the subway, and are doing it for relatively short distances.... Lets say there actually is a latent demand for off peak express bus service along residential QB.... You would be slowing down express bus service - To exacerbate local bus service along QB.

Because certainly, you're not going to have expresses making stops along the main road... Right?

 

The outer lanes are too narrow for as much BPH that the Q60 gets, and what doesn't help are the double-parkers, but those are separate rants for another time...

 

 

This discussion would've never commenced if that were true.....

 

What you probably meant was "should" be.... And if we were to go by that logic, there would not only be express bus service running during peak hours only, but less express bus routes in our system, period.... The MTA violates their own loading guidelines to pander to those (communities) that shout the loudest & possesses the most clout.....

If I were to add any Queens Blvd stops during off peak hours, it would only be at the QBL train stations, and in the case about the QM4, at 67 Avenue and 63 Drive.

 

As for the second part, what you're saying is completely true. If buses are rather light in ridership inbound, at least have them run an outbound trip. Besides the QM4, all those evening expresses in Queens on weekdays go in, and then DH to CP. Know, it makes me wonder, if there is no riders on that trip, if the drivers have to still go into Manhattan. 

 

I believe somebody on here said that when the QM2A was renumbered, the MTA also was planning to cut some of the last few QM20's into Manhattan, but the residents in the area complained about the proposal. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You completely missed my point with the Rockaways and Rochdale Village examples. Yes, they don't have service compared to Eastern Queens, but there has to be a reason why they have only rush hour and limited evening service. Could it be that there's not enough of a justification for the service. The QM16 would be longer a bit longer than the QM5, which means that the cost to run in service would be more. There has to be a decent farebox ratio in order to continue running the service. Would you run the service if it hypothetically had 1-3 riders per bus? Answer me that honestly.

 

Yes, I know some trips on the X10 don't have stellar ridership, however, it's not like they DH to the depot (if it was a Manhattan bound bus) or DH to Manhattan (if it came from the depot). That's exactly what's happening with these trips. They are either empty or with one rider going to the city at night, and then DH to CP. It's such a gargantuan waste of money.

 

And no, most of the 7 day expresses do not have a set of service running every 30 minutes that late, all day. I don't see the evening BxM3-BxM11 (except the BxM7), the QM2, nor the QM4 running every 30 minutes all day weekdays and Saturday evenings in both directions, and throughout the day on Sunday with 30 minute headways. The only exception is the BxM7, the X1, 10, and 17. To make matters worse, some of them even had that type of headway (30 minute headway) during middays on weekdays and through the evening, but were cut, because they weren't used (BxM3, BxM4, QM4). Does having all express buses going into Manhattanat night  every 30 minutes sound good for you? You would attract a MASSIVE amount of ridership, because look at Union Turnpike...

 

Jewel Avenue is slightly overserved on Weekdays, and definitely on the weekends. Whether you want to see it or not, it's the truth. Same goes for Union Turnpike during certain parts of the day. The QM4 has a little less than 40 riders more than the QM15 per weekend as a comparison, and 7 less people than the BxM4 per weekend. If the QM15 runs Saturdays Only, and the QM4 runs on Sundays as well, and you even look at the corresponding service levels, you will be amazed. The BxM4 and QM4 have a similar amount of riders per weekend, but the BxM4, unlike the QM4, does not run near any other express bus, while the QM4 ends within proximity of the QM5 travel path in Fresh Meadows (I'm talking about in time, not distance). Besides, the schedule would change on the Jewel Avenue leg 10 minutes more or less, but it shouldn't be a problem at all. 

 

If I really wanted to make things a hassle, I would just say f**k it, and would've proposed to eliminate ALL evening service to Manhattan on all three QM's.

My response is that it isn't the end of the world.  As you said, the QM4 gets about the same amount of riders as the BxM4 on weekends, and as a regular BxM4 rider who sees who uses the line, I'm fine with the hourly headways.  The line serves elderly, disabled, and folks that need that bus to go to work.  The service on the QM4 is HOURLY on weekends, so that's barebones service.  QM5 and QM6 run HOURLY off-peak after a certain time during the week and run hourly on weekends and they both serve large co-ops that depend use that service (North Shore Towers for the QM6) and the area by 73rd Avenue for the QM5. QM4 serves Electchester.  Good luck removing their service...

Edited October 4, 2015 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

My response is that it isn't the end of the world.  As you said, the QM4 gets about the same amount of riders as the BxM4 on weekends, and as a regular BxM4 rider who sees who uses the line, I'm fine with the hourly headways.  The line serves elderly, disabled, and folks that need that bus to go to work.  The service on the QM4 is HOURLY on weekends, so that's barebones service.  QM5 and QM6 run HOURLY off-peak after a certain time during the week and run hourly on weekends and they both serve large co-ops that depend use that service (North Shore Towers for the QM6) and the area by 73rd Avenue for the QM5. QM4 serves Electchester.  Good luck removing their service...

Those areas wouldn't see a reduction of service levels at all under my proposal. For Jewel Avenue, the times the buses are scheduled to stop at will change, but they will still see the same service. I don't know if you're still not understand my proposal if you're just reading random words and putting things in my mouth that I never said. It wouldn't be the end of the world but it would somehow mean the end of their service down the line at some point. I would rather maximize the amount of riders on those segments in order to boost the overall riders per bus (even though it still won't meet the guideline). 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Those areas wouldn't see a reduction of service levels at all under my proposal. For Jewel Avenue, the times the buses are scheduled to stop at will change, but they will still see the same service. I don't know if you're still not understand my proposal if you're just reading random words and putting things in my mouth that I never said. It wouldn't be the end of the world but it would somehow mean the end of their service down the line at some point. I would rather maximize the amount of riders on those segments in order to boost the overall riders per bus (even though it still won't meet the guideline). 

I understand it.  I just don't agree with it.  I would keep service the way it is.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I understand it.  I just don't agree with it.  I would keep service the way it is.

However that makes it more prone to being eliminated.

 

The MTA could argue that QM5 riders are close to the QM6, QM4 riders could take the Q64, and possibly leave one bus on Union Turnpike to Manhattan. If the QM5 ran on both its Fresh Meadow leg and the Jewel Avenue leg, it will look like the QM5 serves more of an importance than it currently, not paralleling any other express bus and serving many areas under the same trip. The QM6, I'm guessing they would keep with regards to NST.

 

I don't know if the MTA notices this or not right now with the evening service in that area, but if they do notice, they're gonna start to see which buses to cut, mainly being all buses after the last evening bus that does outbound trip. From the run sheets, the last one to leave is around the 8 PM or 9 PM slot for all but the QM4, and 11 PM for the QM4. That would essentially result in cuts to every bus BUT the QM4, which does not need it's own bus during the evening and/or late evening.

Edited October 4, 2015 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Via Garibaldi 8]

However that makes it more prone to being eliminated.

 

The MTA could argue that QM5 riders are close to the QM6, QM4 riders could take the Q64, and possibly leave one bus on Union Turnpike to Manhattan. If the QM5 ran on both its Fresh Meadow leg and the Jewel Avenue leg, it will look like the QM5 serves more of an importance than it currently, not paralleling any other express bus and serving many areas under the same trip. The QM6, I'm guessing they would keep with regards to NST.

 

I don't know if the MTA notices this or not right now with the evening service in that area, but if they do notice, they're gonna start to see which buses to cut, mainly being all buses after the last evening bus that does outbound trip. From the run sheets, the last one to leave is around the 8 PM or 9 PM slot for all but the QM4, and 11 PM for the QM4. That would essentially result in cuts to every bus BUT the QM4, which does not need it's own bus during the evening and/or late evening.

I don't see any cuts coming.  My personal opinion is that the will try to keep the service on Bus lines that have 7 day service.  It isn't about the amount of riders, but trying to keep reasonable service for communities across the city that have a lack of transit options and I think it's fair despite how much you complain about it being too much fat. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

You mean the one that's packed to the rafters along Queens Blvd? That subway?

 

The local trains aren't packed to the rafters, and they're still faster than an express bus.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The local trains aren't packed to the rafters, and they're still faster than an express bus.

That's if you're going to areas north of 50 Street. South of 50 Street, the express bus is the quicker option. 

I don't see any cuts coming.  My personal opinion is that the will try to keep the service on Bus lines that have 7 day service.  It isn't about the amount of riders, but trying to keep reasonable service for communities across the city that have a lack of transit options and I think it's fair despite how much you complain about it being too much fat. 

You don't, but I'm not so certain that with the current set-up, service will remain the way it is. It won't be tomorrow, but somewhere down the line, the MTA will address the inefficient service in that area. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You don't, but I'm not so certain that with the current set-up, service will remain the way it is. It won't be tomorrow, but somewhere down the line, the MTA will address the inefficient service in that area. 

lol... Your fixation with Union Turnpike still leaves me perplexed.

 

 

 

The local trains aren't packed to the rafters, and they're still faster than an express bus.

Not true, esp. off peak.  I get the QM1, QM5 and QM6 at Main Street and it's a heck of a lot faster than the subway.  Your wife's travels on a few express bus trips don't represent all trips. lol

Edited October 4, 2015 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Gotham Bus Co.]

 

Not true, esp. off peak.  I get the QM1, QM5 and QM6 at Main Street and it's a heck of a lot faster than the subway.  Your wife's travels on a few express bus trips don't represent all trips. lol

 

The QM1/5/6 don't pick up on Queens Blvd.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The QM1/5/6 don't pick up on Queens Blvd.

When I travel to Kew Gardens, I get off at Main Street and get a Q46 over to Queens Blvd.  I usually time things just right esp. with BusTime, so my travels, esp. off-peak with that set up EASILY beat the subway, esp. going to Manhattan, as Main St. is the last stop before those buses head into the city.  I've taken the to Queens Blvd and found the commute slow and annoying, not to mention crowded.  When I had a meeting to attend at Borough Hall a few weeks ago, I took the QM1 in to the Q46 and the Q46 to the QM5 back to the city.  The commute back to the city was blazing fast, esp. with the headways of the Q46.  There's one every few minutes.  Got off of the Q46 and a QM5 was coming.

 

There will be some new stores opening in Forest Hills near Queens Blvd in the future and I will use the QM4 for that.  Would still be faster than taking the subway.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Via Garibaldi 8

[NewFlyer 230]

And what reason is that? Have you ever even used an express bus before? lol

You asked me that same question 5 times before. I got eyes and observe so that why I know the QM18 is not used like it should be. There is no reason I should be at Queens Blvd 108th and 71st Ave and see a QM18 with one person on it then the next one with only 4 people. The QM18 is not frequent at all. The pick up portion is too long, and it gets stuck in traffic on the outer lane on Queens Blvd. The QM18 has potential, just need to get some off the Q10/Q37 and the and trains.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You asked me that same question 5 times before. I got eyes and observe so that why I know the QM18 is not used like it should be. There is no reason I should be at Queens Blvd 108th and 71st Ave and see a QM18 with one person on it then the next one with only 4 people. The QM18 is not frequent at all. The pick up portion is too long, and it gets stuck in traffic on the outer lane on Queens Blvd. The QM18 has potential, just need to get some off the Q10/Q37 and the and trains.

Yeah and there's a reason I've asked it that many times.  Looking at a bus passing by doesn't tell you much of anything about ridership patterns. Hell with the new ads blocking the windows I don't know how you can see who is riding from outside anyway.

[B35 via Church]

However that makes it more prone to being eliminated.

 

The MTA could argue that QM5 riders are close to the QM6, QM4 riders could take the Q64, and possibly leave one bus on Union Turnpike to Manhattan. If the QM5 ran on both its Fresh Meadow leg and the Jewel Avenue leg, it will look like the QM5 serves more of an importance than it currently, not paralleling any other express bus and serving many areas under the same trip. The QM6, I'm guessing they would keep with regards to NST.

 

I don't know if the MTA notices this or not right now with the evening service in that area, but if they do notice, they're gonna start to see which buses to cut, mainly being all buses after the last evening bus that does outbound trip. From the run sheets, the last one to leave is around the 8 PM or 9 PM slot for all but the QM4, and 11 PM for the QM4. That would essentially result in cuts to every bus BUT the QM4, which does not need it's own bus during the evening and/or late evening.

You seem to be ignoring the politics behind it all.....

 

Also (not to say they don't exist, but), I have never seen a traffic checker on any late night trips of any mode.....

The MTA tends to cut specifc late night trips on trains/buses assuming "not too many riders would be affected"...... In other words, it's already pre-determined that late night trips carry light.... Common knowledge-like....

Edited October 4, 2015 by B35 via Church

[NewFlyer 230]

Yeah and there's a reason I've asked it that many times. Looking at a bus passing by doesn't tell you much of anything about ridership patterns. Hell with the new ads blocking the windows I don't know how you can see who is riding from outside anyway.

The buses are not that dark. I think almost every express route has potential to grow. They just need the people that wanna use it instead of the subway. Imagine how nice the subways would be if we didn't have people squeezing into a train. The train is horrible that is why I use the and even the when I go to school. I wanna try the QM4 one day but from my understanding you have to use a express pass and not the regular cards you can fill up with whatever amount is that correct?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The buses are not that dark. I think almost every express route has potential to grow. They just need the people that wanna use it instead of the subway. Imagine how nice the subways would be if we didn't have people squeezing into a train. The train is horrible that is why I use the and even the when I go to school. I wanna try the QM4 one day but from my understanding you have to use a express pass and not the regular cards you can fill up with whatever amount is that correct?

You can use a regular Metrocard, as long as you have $6.50.  Otherwise you must use a Express Bus pass.  I'm actually on a pay-per-ride since I didn't do much traveling this week, but I'm buying a pass tonight when I head home for this coming week since I have meetings, etc.

[B35 via Church]

The buses are not that dark. I think almost every express route has potential to grow. They just need the people that wanna use it instead of the subway. Imagine how nice the subways would be if we didn't have people squeezing into a train. The train is horrible that is why I use the and even the when I go to school. I wanna try the QM4 one day but from my understanding you have to use a express pass and not the regular cards you can fill up with whatever amount is that correct?

Discretionary income..... Plenty of people in this city simply do not have it.

(i.e. living "check to check")

 

You should hear the sob stories from some just barely being able to afford riding the subway/local buses.....

Edited October 4, 2015 by B35 via Church

[NewFlyer 230]

Discretionary income..... Plenty of people in this city simply do not have it.

(i.e. living "check to check")

 

You should hear the sob stories from some just barely being able to afford riding the subway/local buses.....

Yes I know. They always have a bunch of people who complain every time the fare goes up 25¢ on the local/limited buses. I still think the fare isn't that bad still. I can understand the complains for the express bus because it is a bit much going from $4.00 or was it $4.50 in 2009 to $6.50 in 2015.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Discretionary income..... Plenty of people in this city simply do not have it.

(i.e. living "check to check")

 

You should hear the sob stories from some just barely being able to afford riding the subway/local buses.....

Hate to say it but it's true.  For me it's a necessity quite frankly.  I would be too tired with the demands of my job if I didn't budget for it.  I can't run a mini marathon before I get into my office, and I do a lot of traveling for meetings pertaining to work.  This week alone I have a full day plus two meetings Downtown and won't get home until late into the night, and that's with me taking taxis from those meetings to the express bus or back to my office and then getting the express bus.  The people that use the bus to the subway and make all of those transfers.... I don't envy them.  I did it when I first started working for maybe two years and I hated it then, so I couldn't imagine doing it now.

 

I could see the QM4 being one of the buses that was hit hard by the recession.  Ridership with the express buses now is more about delays though.  It seems as if there is something just about every day, including weekends. Took an hour and a half to get in this afternoon...

Edited October 5, 2015 by Via Garibaldi 8

[IAlam]

Do you think tourist would use an Express bus directly between the Airports and Manhattan if the MTA marketed it heavily? cause $6.50 is a lot cheaper than the other direct options to the city 

[MysteriousBtrain]

Do you think tourist would use an Express bus directly between the Airports and Manhattan if the MTA marketed it heavily? cause $6.50 is a lot cheaper than the other direct options to the city

Nah. They would NEVER do that. The reason is because an express route is too expensive to be an airport route, especially when you got the M60 to take you to major routes, the Q70 to connect you to the LIRR, and private bus services that would get you to the PABT and Penn station.

[IAlam]

but those charge a lot more like I said lets use LGA for example because it still lacks rail service. 

Taxis automatically charge a flat rate of something like $45

These airport shuttles charge usually around $15-$20 per person 

The MTA Express buses charge $6.50

An Express route to LGA would be shorter than most express routes in the city 

There would be less hassle with luggage because they have compartments overhead

and it can use LGA to store their buses.

They accept metrocards which a lot of tourist already will have to get in the future if they don't choose single ride tickets

I honestly think it can do better than many of the other Express bus routes that currently to Queens if the service is marketed heavily in the Airport 

[bobtehpanda]

I see no good reason as to why we should subsidize relatively wealthier tourists instead of service improvements for the working and middle classes. If they can afford to travel, they can afford an airport bus or taxi.