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Q43LTD

Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

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@Via Garibaldi 8 First of all, I didn't say anything about agreeing or disagreeing with them having the service levels/spans they do. I simply stated that they run near subway lines. The same way the X28 runs near the (D) for much of its Brooklyn routing (which is what he brought up) is the same way the BxM4 runs near the (D) in The Bronx and the BxM11 runs near the (2) in The Bronx. That's not a judgement, that's a fact.

And actually, thanks to the Clark Street reconstruction project, the (5) actually does run up WPR on the weekends. 

 

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5 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

@BrooklynBus  Practically none is not the same as none. At the end of the day, it's a relatively small amount of riders being affected overall (which is probably why it's being used as a test to see how well these types of ideas work throughout the rest of the city, though to me, it doesn't seem much different from a standard service restructuring). We're talking about 240 riders who would benefit from the reroute vs. 380 riders who are negatively affected (presumably they meant passenger trips). And if 85% of Q22 riders remain east of Beach 116th, that means 15% travel west of Beach 116th, and since the Q22 has about 7,000 trips made per weekday, that equals 1,000 trips. They should've published what the proposed frequencies are east of Beach 116th Street to show how many people would actually benefit. And yes, if, out of those 1,000 trips, 140 trips saw a decrease in travel time that made up for the fact that 140 people would have a longer walk and increased travel time, then it would be neutral in those terms (and an overall benefit if riders east of Beach 116th saw a benefit).

Wrong thread, fam.

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6 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

@Via Garibaldi 8 First of all, I didn't say anything about agreeing or disagreeing with them having the service levels/spans they do. I simply stated that they run near subway lines. The same way the X28 runs near the (D) for much of its Brooklyn routing (which is what he brought up) is the same way the BxM4 runs near the (D) in The Bronx and the BxM11 runs near the (2) in The Bronx. That's not a judgement, that's a fact.

And actually, thanks to the Clark Street reconstruction project, the (5) actually does run up WPR on the weekends. 

 

But you brought it up for a reason. That's my point. You didn't bring it up just to say that it's a fact. Come off of the BS. You brought it up in a way to say that the service shouldn't run given the topic that was being discussed.

I have no problem with people questioning service levels but if they're so concerned about neighborhoods having "too much service", instead of looking at map and making misinformed comments, they can ride the routes regularly. Looking at a bus passing by doesn't count either.

You never hear these stupid comments about rail service. How interesting. Lots of buses run near subway lines, so it makes no sense to state the obvious. Buses have a place in our transit system, and people are going to have to learn to live with it. They are NOT subways and they never will be.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

But you brought it up for a reason. That's my point. You didn't bring it up just to say that it's a fact. Come off of the BS. You brought it up in a way to say that the service shouldn't run given the topic that was being discussed.

 I have no problem with people questioning service levels but if they're so concerned about neighborhoods having "too much service", instead of looking at map and making misinformed comments, they can ride the routes regularly. Looking at a bus passing by doesn't count either.

You never hear these stupid comments about rail service. How interesting.

The topic being discussed between us was MTA Bus vs. NYCT service levels. If you want to make it about something else, that's on you.

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7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Something else left out of all of this is the fact that the City agreed to provide adequate transportation to certain communities when they were planned. There's LeFrak City, Co-Op City and Parkchester in the Bronx. Mitchell Gardens in Flushing... These are planned areas with high density where transportation is essential and they're away from subways in most cases or the express bus provides a faster commute. The QM4 has a similar situation. It terminates in Electchester. The issue with that line is the people that should be using it aren't, but they're still going to run service there, just the bare bones and that's fine. Hourly service off-peak is not breaking the bank and it is serving areas away from the subway. What I would do is have it make more stops along Queens Blvd to garner more ridership. Hit areas like Forest Hills which has seniors and people with money that can afford the express bus, this way you can keep the service.

Unfortunately for the QM10, the demographics changed drastically. IIRC, when service started on the QM10 and QM12, LeFrak City, Rego Park, and Forest Hills were heavily Jewish, IIRC. While Forest Hills and Rego Park still have a large Jewish Population, the same cannot be said of LeFrak City, which is now mixed with Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians, who cannot usually afford the fare. 

LeFrak has (and is still) trying to appeal to new buyers, trying to paint LeFrak City is "new", but it just isn't working. Makes me laugh to see LeFrak City ads in Downtown Brooklyn.

 

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8 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Unfortunately for the QM10, the demographics changed drastically. IIRC, when service started on the QM10 and QM12, LeFrak City, Rego Park, and Forest Hills were heavily Jewish, IIRC. While Forest Hills and Rego Park still have a large Jewish Population, the same cannot be said of LeFrak City, which is now mixed with Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians, who cannot usually afford the fare. 

LeFrak has (and is still) trying to appeal to new buyers, trying to paint LeFrak City is "new", but it just isn't working. Makes me laugh to see LeFrak City ads in Downtown Brooklyn.

 

When BM2 and BQM1 start Canarsie was heavily white and it eventually changed over. Demographics change on a lot of bus routes over time. 

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1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The topic being discussed between us was MTA Bus vs. NYCT service levels. If you want to make it about something else, that's on you.

Correct, and about cutting service too if certain lines were under NYCT. I'm well aware of what was being discussed, so let's not act like cutting service wasn't being discussed. That's how you came to the discussion of express buses running near subway lines.

13 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Unfortunately for the QM10, the demographics changed drastically. IIRC, when service started on the QM10 and QM12, LeFrak City, Rego Park, and Forest Hills were heavily Jewish, IIRC. While Forest Hills and Rego Park still have a large Jewish Population, the same cannot be said of LeFrak City, which is now mixed with Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians, who cannot usually afford the fare. 

LeFrak has (and is still) trying to appeal to new buyers, trying to paint LeFrak City is "new", but it just isn't working. Makes me laugh to see LeFrak City ads in Downtown Brooklyn.

 

Yes, they've done a lot of upgrades there to attract people with deeper pockets. With the new rents being charged there, theorthetically you would get people there that could afford the express bus on a larger scale. However the place overall isn't worth the rents they're asking for and still have a lot of quality of life issues so the QM10 likely won't see any real increase in ridership unless it comes from Forest Hills or Rego Pack.

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3 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Unfortunately for the QM10, the demographics changed drastically. IIRC, when service started on the QM10 and QM12, LeFrak City, Rego Park, and Forest Hills were heavily Jewish, IIRC. While Forest Hills and Rego Park still have a large Jewish Population, the same cannot be said of LeFrak City, which is now mixed with Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians, who cannot usually afford the fare. 

LeFrak has (and is still) trying to appeal to new buyers, trying to paint LeFrak City is "new", but it just isn't working. Makes me laugh to see LeFrak City ads in Downtown Brooklyn.

 

Now mixed with Blacks, Asians, and Hispanics? Lefrak's been a melting pot for the longest....
Let's keep it a buck, Lefrak used to be the hood!! That's the stigma that Lefrak's trying to shake with this whole *brand new* shtick, with which it isn't working.....

"LeFrak City.... IRAQ, QUEENS" - Noreaga

Anyway, t'hell with downtown Brooklyn - the LeFrak City ad that used to circulate w/ other ads on this very forum (main forum page, right hand side) used to have me CTFU :lol:

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On 6/10/2018 at 6:07 PM, B35 via Church said:

Now mixed with Blacks, Asians, and Hispanics? Lefrak's been a melting pot for the longest....
Let's keep it a buck, Lefrak used to be the hood!! That's the stigma that Lefrak's trying to shake with this whole *brand new* shtick, with which it isn't working.....

"LeFrak City.... IRAQ, QUEENS" - Noreaga

Anyway, t'hell with downtown Brooklyn - the LeFrak City ad that used to circulate w/ other ads on this very forum (main forum page, right hand side) used to have me CTFU :lol:

Used to be? LMAO. They apparently still have a roach infestation that they can shake either. How's that for luxury.  lol

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4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Used to be? LMAO. They apparently still have a roach infestation that they can shake either. How's that for luxury.  lol

Nah.... Although they're not fooling anyone with the luxe BS, LeFrak isn't the hood anymore....

16 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

So basically, Lefrak City was like Rochdale 2.0 in a sense

Somewhat... But Rochdale was much worse back in their respective hey-days.....

Edited by B35 via Church

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8 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Nah.... Although they're not fooling anyone with the luxe BS, LeFrak isn't the hood anymore....

Maybe but it's still lipstick on a pig... 

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I have an idea I'm surprised that no one has thought about. 

Building a bus hub/terminal somewhere next to or at Corona Depot to provide a better terminal/short turn place for the buses on Main Street. There's no place in Main Street to create a bus hub/terminal. The following buses would use it.......

Q12, Q13, Q15/Q15A, Q16, Q17, Q19, Q20A/Q20B, Q25, Q26, Q27, Q34, Q44SBS, Q48, Q50, and Q66. Some buses would be moved to this transit hub in Willets Point to be moved for a new terminal while others just short turn here. Please keep in mind that you'll still be able to transfer to the (7) and LIRR.

Any thoughts? 

Edited by LGA Link N train

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38 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

Building a bus hub/terminal somewhere next to or at Corona Depot....

If you're referring to Casey Stengel Depot, remember that it will be forced to close to accommodate the LaGuardia AirTrain.

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Just now, Gotham Bus Co. said:

If you're referring to Casey Stengel Depot, remember that it will be forced to close to accommodate the LaGuardia AirTrain.

Well then, building a bus terminal there would provide a transfer to the LaGuardia AirTtrain as well. So therefore, it's a win-win situation

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1 minute ago, LGA Link N train said:

Well then, building a bus terminal there would provide a transfer to the LaGuardia AirTtrain as well. So therefore, it's a win-win situation

The space that CS Depot occupies today will be used by LGA AirTrain-related facilities, so therefore won't be available to be used as a bus terminal. Which is fine, because Willets Point isn't the best place for a bus terminal to begin with, regardless of whether the silly AirTrain exists or not.

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1 minute ago, officiallyliam said:

The space that CS Depot occupies today will be used by LGA AirTrain-related facilities, so therefore won't be available to be used as a bus terminal. Which is fine, because Willets Point isn't the best place for a bus terminal to begin with, regardless of whether the silly AirTrain exists or not.

Personally I'm not in support of the AirTrain. However, I'm in support of easing congestion at Main Street and even though Willets Point is not the best place, It was the only place that I could find that had "space". Besides, a Transfer between 15 bus routes (some of which would just short turn there), the (7) line, the Long Island Railroad and the not so good LaGuardia AirTrain would benefit a lot of people. Even more so on game days since CitiField and the Arthur Ashe Stadium are nearby. Therefore, it's still a win-win

 

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13 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

Therefore, it's still a win-win

 

Only if it has any chance of happening, which it doesn't.

 

Most of the CS Depot site will be used for the AirTrain station and maintenance shop. The rest will be used for a centralized car rental facility.

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25 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

Why a car rental facility of all things?

 

Because it would force people to use the AirTrain.

Edited by Gotham Bus Co.

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44 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Because it would force people to use the AirTrain.

Coming to think of it, makes sense, but with the current conditions of our streets and the roads (Especially Manhattan) it's best to scrap this along with the AirTrain

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2 hours ago, LGA Link N train said:

Coming to think of it, makes sense, but with the current conditions of our streets and the roads (Especially Manhattan) it's best to scrap this along with the AirTrain

 

The Governor wants an AirTrain, so there will be an AirTrain and Casey Stengel Depot will eventually close.

 

This doesn't eliminate the need for an off-street bus terminal, but such a terminal can't be at Willets Point.

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3 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

The Governor wants an AirTrain, so there will be an AirTrain and Casey Stengel Depot will eventually close.

I know. 

This doesn't eliminate the need for an off-street bus terminal, but such a terminal can't be at Willets Point.

if not Willets Point then where? 

Replies in bold

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2 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

The Governor wants an AirTrain, so there will be an AirTrain and Casey Stengel Depot will eventually close.

 

This doesn't eliminate the need for an off-street bus terminal, but such a terminal can't be at Willets Point.

Interesting. I assume the AirTrain won’t become a thing or at least begin to be built until CS can be relocated and built. 

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So here’s some thoughts I had about some routes and how they could possibly be improved.

1. I don’t think the Q19 should serve the Astoria houses. If people from the Astoria Houses want the subway they could take the Q18 or Q102 to the 30th Ave station. The Q19 doesn’t have crazy usage between the Astoria Houses complex and Astoria Blvd Station anyways. I would reroute the Q19 up 21st street and have it terminate at 20th Ave and 23rd Street. It would provide riders with direct and quicker (N) and (W) access without having to backtrack on the Q69 and or have to put up with the Q100 to Queens Plaza. I still think the Q100 should be absorbed into a Q69 LTD making LTD stops on the Q69 route to  31st street and local afterwards to Jackson Heights.

Another thing I would do to the Q19 is give it more frequent service and run it later. I think part of what  contributes to the low usage of the Q19 is the fact that it is infrequent and ends so early. So many people simply don’t put up with it. So I’m hoping that by at least making it more frequent during rush hours and having it run to at least 10pm or maybe even 11pm it could be more attractive to people along the route. 

2. I would split the Q38 into 2 routes. The Eliot Ave and Corona side of the route would remain the Q38 and I would have it run to the current Q39 terminal via Forest Ave. It would no longer make that brief turn onto Fresh Pond Road. Instead it would continue down Eliot Ave to Metropolitan Ave and then turn south on Forest Ave to continue to where the Q39 currently terminates at.

The 63rd Drive side of the current Q38 route could be called the Q51. 

The Q51 will follow the current Q38 route from 62nd Drive and 108th Street to Dry harbor Road. It would then turn south on Dry Harbor Road to Furmanville Road and continue on that much wider street to 75th Place. It would then turn south on 75th Pl to Juniper Valley Road to 69th Street . It would turn on Metropolitan Ave and continue on Metropolitan Ave until Forest Ave it would continue on there until Gates Ave where it will follow the B13 to the Myrtle Wyckoff station.

To be honest I had the hardest time figuring out how to route the south half of the Q38 (Q51) because I think having it end simply end at Metropolitan Ave does nothing but limit what the route can do. I think by having it extended to Myrtle Wyckoff or even somewhere else would open up new options for riders in the area. 

3. The Q39 I would reroute it off Forest Ave and run it down Fresh Pond Road with the Q58 and then have it take the B20’s route to Broadway Junction where it would terminate at. The B20 would be cut to Broadway Junction and no longer continue to the Forest Ave (M) station.

 

Edited by NewFlyer 230
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