Second Avenue Subway Discussion

[Lance]

Does anyone know what the 96 Street station will show up as on the FIND? The preliminary subway map by the MTA shows “96 St.” The in-station signage will likely show “96 Street.” But we’ve—so far—seen a few variants programmed into the NTTs: EAST SIDE-96 ST; and UPPER EAST SIDE-96 ST. I’ve seen people quoting “2 AV-96 ST” (analogous to “57 ST-7 AV”), but I don’t think it makes sense to include the “2 AV” part since it does not serve to disambiguate anything. The MTA already has a 96 ST station on 3 parallel lines and numerous other stations with identical names on other parallel trunks (like 23 ST). Just pronouncing the “2 AV” part would make the announcements longer when the MTA is trying to shorten them.

 

This goes for “57 ST-7 AV” as well. It seems pointless to throw in the extra syllables.

 

7 AV on the 53 Street line on the other hand, could use a little disambiguation since it is an abrupt departure from the pattern set by naming the stations after numbered streets. It should be 53 ST-7 AV. It also serves to distinguish that 7 AV from the one in Brooklyn for the (when it runs NTTs).

Currently, or rather the last time someone posted a pic of the FINDs, I believe it was 96 St or 96 St-2 Av. I'll have to see if I can find that picture again.

 

As for 57 Street, the announcements for the used to be "This is a 57th Street-bound express train." I believe it was changed to distinguish between the 57 Street station on 6th Avenue. Since the only terminates at 57 Street sparingly, the original announcement was retained.

 

Regarding 7 Av/53 St, the station has been known as 7 Avenue for well over 80 years. And it does follow the naming convention. 7th Avenue is the intersecting street while 53rd Street is the road the line is travelling under. Besides, the station is already distinguished from the 7 Avenue station in Brooklyn by being labelled and announced as 7 Av-53 St on the NTTs.

 

So far I've seen the one program that says "EAST SIDE-96 ST" on the outside but interestingly says "TO 96 ST-2 AV" on the inside.

 

So far, this is the only program I've seen where interior signage is different from exterior signage, which is how you get those weird abbreviations on the interior.

Actually, before the exterior sign was changed, the to 21 St-Queensbridge via 6th Avenue option displayed as follows:

 

|21 ST-QUEENSBRIDGE

|BRIGHTON LCL

|via 6 AV/63 ST EXP

 

while the interior next stop signs showed

 

|TO 21 ST-QUEENSBR

|THE NEXT STOP IS

...

 

I believe they keep the exterior and interior signs the same to make sure the text fits on both signs without any problems.

[Around the Horn]

Update time, folks!

 

the entire project is 96.3% complete

 

Lex/63rd is 98.5% complete (http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_pdf/SAS%20Newsletter%2063rd%20-%20August%202016.pdf)

72 Street is 89.2% complete (http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_pdf/SAS%20Newsletter%2072nd%20-%20August%202016.pdf)

86 Street is 90% complete (http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_pdf/SAS%20Newsletter%2086th%20-%20August%202016.pdf)

The 96 Street newsletter does not give a percentage (http://web.mta.info/capital/sas_pdf/SAS%20Newsletter%2096th%20-%20August%202016.pdf)

 

The MTA insists that service will begin in December 2016.

[cl94]

I was at Lex/63rd last week and from what I could see through the false wall, everything looks just about complete at platform level. If stuff really is that complete, December might not be out of reach.

[CenSin]

I was at Lex/63rd last week and from what I could see through the false wall, everything looks just about complete at platform level. If stuff really is that complete, December might not be out of reach.

You think they’ll sell that tarp with the fake train on it? Someone is going to buy it for sure.

[Union Tpke]

You think they’ll sell that tarp with the fake train on it? Someone is going to buy it for sure.

 

They will be dumb and trash it.

[Bracamonte]

Its already been trashed. Last time I checked, it was vandalized with graffiti.

[vngannxx]

Any plans to build a 7 train stop at 42 st 2nd ave during SAS phase 3 ?

[cl94]

Any plans to build a 7 train stop at 42 st 2nd ave during SAS phase 3 ?

 

No. A transfer will likely be built to Grand Central. Tracks have quite a steep grade as they're about to duck under the river.

Welcome to the forums.

[2Line1291]

I'm mixed about the SAS being two tracked. By being two tracked there's no flexibility or room for service expansion. It's unfortunate but something is better than nothing

[asi14]

I'm mixed about the SAS being two tracked. By being two tracked there's no flexibility or room for service expansion. It's unfortunate but something is better than nothing

couldn't the mta just build tracks underneath the two tracks like the way they have it at like the lex 59th station? (for the lexington ave line)

[bobtehpanda]

If you notice, no one anywhere in the world builds four tracks anymore. Ultimately if you keep up with maintenance they're not super-necessary, and since we now use bored tunnels instead of ripping up the street side to side, four-tracking is now more expensive to do.

Edited September 1, 2016 by bobtehpanda

[2Line1291]

If you notice, no one anywhere in the world builds four tracks anymore. Ultimately if you keep up with maintenance they're not super-necessary, and since we now use bored tunnels instead of ripping up the street side to side, four-tracking is now more expensive to do.

I understand where you coming from everything has it pros and cons but as fast as the population is growing in NYC it's good to plan for the foreseeable future. Even three tracks would be better than two tracks in case of service expansion or even for emergencies. Just saying

[Art Vandelay]

Three tracks does absolutely nothing to increase capacity without a huge yard at each end. 

[2Line1291]

I mean it is what it is for phases 1 and 2 being two tracked. The or has the option of going to the Bronx later on in life either to Dyre Ave or along Third Ave

[Javier]

Which probably won't happen till were say 340 years old.

[bobtehpanda]

I mean it is what it is for phases 1 and 2 being two tracked. The or has the option of going to the Bronx later on in life either to Dyre Ave or along Third Ave

 

We can burn those bridges when we get there. Unfortunately the SAS is already the most expensive subway tunnel ever built, so it's not like we'll get around to it anytime soon.

 

couldn't the mta just build tracks underneath the two tracks like the way they have it at like the lex 59th station? (for the lexington ave line)

 

While this is technically true, 1) the station's aren't designed to accommodate future stairwells and escalators to a lower level, and 2) You would need to punch through the existing platforms even if they were, so that would be quite a lot of shutdown time.

[2Line1291]

We can burn those bridges when we get there. Unfortunately the SAS is already the most expensive subway tunnel ever built, so it's not like we'll get around to it anytime soon.

Unfortunately you're right. I wonder what's the interest rates on these construction projects that causes for costs to be so high

[asi14]

While this is technically true, 1) the station's aren't designed to accommodate future stairwells and escalators to a lower level, and 2) You would need to punch through the existing platforms even if they were, so that would be quite a lot of shutdown time.

aw damn really? not even room for an express service?

[Fresh Pond]

aw damn really? not even room for an express service?

The stations will be spaced far enough apart where express service would be useless.

[cl94]

The stations will be spaced far enough apart where express service would be useless.

 

Basically true. Stations are spaced twice as far as locals on the Lex. That and a 4 track subway would have cost a hell of a lot more than the insane amount it already is costing.

[asi14]

Basically true. Stations are spaced twice as far as locals on the Lex. That and a 4 track subway would have cost a hell of a lot more than the insane amount it already is costing.

oh fair enough

[bobtehpanda]

There's also the question of what exactly express tracks to connect to, since all four phases and extensions in the outer boroughs would have to be built before they actually became useful.

 

Granted, we know the SAS costs a ridiculous number, but we should wait and see for what the Utica extension costs are going to be before we start saying the MTA can't build for crap.

[LongLiveRock]

An on the ground report from 86th street: escalator testing has begun.

[Union Tpke]

Concerning express tracks. If there was enough money to provide for express tracks, which aren't as crucial as they were when the subway was first constructed, then it would probably be put to better use for a line along Utica Avenue, the Queens Bypass, or a combination of extensions into the outer boroughs.

[cl94]

Concerning express tracks. If there was enough money to provide for express tracks, which aren't as crucial as they were when the subway was first constructed, then it would probably be put to better use for a line along Utica Avenue, the Queens Bypass, or a combination of extensions into the outer boroughs.

 

This. Second Avenue already has an alternate line 2 blocks away. The reduction in congestion due to adding express tracks would be less than any potential improvement that could be caused by an equal mileage of track in an unserved area of Brooklyn or Queens.