Second Avenue Subway Discussion

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

On 11/7/2017 at 10:18 AM, LGA Link N train said:

well, unless the R179 order is complete then we'll just have to figure something out with the R32's (assuming that there will be about 100 left)  such as .... IDK,    overhauling them one more time or leaving them on the  , the  (i know for a fact) won't be able to handle the R32's much longer (by the time the  train shutdown comes around, the will be all NTT) 

Come to think of it, unless we overhaul them once more there's really no place to put the R32's. Unless the MTA decides to make their GRAND FINALE run on the since it the R32's first ran on that line.

I think they should be converted into Low-V tugtrains.

As far as I'm concerned, the number of outages so close to bottlenecks is putting strain on nearby systems while trapping riders. 

Kew Gardens, West Midtown, DeKalb, and I'm sure the list will only grow.

I'm positive that there are better alternatives to the gas powered vehicles that make the tunnels unbreathable if it isn't being caused by both rat species in the subway.

The R32s are beyond useful revenue service. However I don't think they totally deserve a resting place in the Atlantic yet.

[Wallyhorse]

20 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

I get accused by R42N of being nasty but stuff I write is completely ignored.  I addressed your point already.

You claim ".......never gonna happened......" but it has and will happen again.  I know transits' line of thinking thanks to my 34 years of working there, on all shifts in the course of my career.  On rare occasions the bridge does close for police activity. Transit must be prepared for that rare eventuality and they are.  If the bridge gets knocked out, 2 of 3 ways to Manhattan from DeKalb are knocked out.  The one remaining route to Manhattan must be kept moving.  Any R32 B train north of Prospect Park being turned at Jay St. will stop everything.  It takes time to turn a train.  The crew has to walk the train making sure everybody is off.  There are always some passengers who don't hear announcements due to a language barrier, ear buds, or just not listening.  Then there are hard heads who want a personal explanation.  This delays the train just getting into the relay position.  Once there, the t/o is not going to run thru the train after he secures the cab.  He has his gear to carry.  He has to open each storm door carefully and completely while changing ends so it is done safely.  By the time he crosses the switches to the other track (no more than 10 MPH, trains are really backed up more than ever.   This is why you don't turn trains at Jay/Court Streets.

Yes, but in a pinch, they could have it where a crew is set up to take the train back at Court Street and do a quick turnaround if you had an R32 train on the route.

Making this relevant to the SAS, they could do it where on weekends R32s are used on the between Metropolitan Avenue and 96th during the shutdown if in fact they do have the go there on weekends (as I would as previously noted would actually be looking to be doing 24/7 once the Myrtle EL portion reopens and the  is back on its regular route, splitting the into on its current route and to 96th/2nd, which would account for an overall increase in service between Metropolitan and 47th-50th with not too many (if any at all) extra trainsets needed). 

[R68OnBroadway]

1 hour ago, Wallyhorse said:

Yes, but in a pinch, they could have it where a crew is set up to take the train back at Court Street and do a quick turnaround if you had an R32 train on the route.

Making this relevant to the SAS, they could do it where on weekends R32s are used on the between Metropolitan Avenue and 96th during the shutdown if in fact they do have the go there on weekends (as I would as previously noted would actually be looking to be doing 24/7 once the Myrtle EL portion reopens and the  is back on its regular route, splitting the into on its current route and to 96th/2nd, which would account for an overall increase in service between Metropolitan and 47th-50th with not too many (if any at all) extra trainsets needed). 

 There is no need to put a crew there. The   is just not suitable for the R32.  R32s will not go up SAS except for museum and work runs as if 6th Av closes, there is no choice but to send them down Broadway, and since 6th is closed, the south side of the bridge will be packed with  trains into Manhattan, crippling the Southern Division (minus the  ) as well as the regular crowd of  s and  s. 

Edited November 8, 2017 by R68OnBroadway

[T to Dyre Avenue]

3 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

How long till the people on the 2nd ave subway freak out that an r46 is running on the Q

How about today? This morning, while waiting for the train at Times Sq, the R46  pulled on the express. An R160  pulled in on the local at the same time. People got off that   for the  . Apparently, there must have been  some confusion. Unless they thought the  was going to leave first (it didn’t). But from what I saw, the side signs were inconsistent. The first car’s sign was blank and the second’s showed “  to Bay Ridge/95th St,” followed by a blank letter with “To 96th St/2nd Ave.” And the last car was signed up for the  .

I figured something like this might happen.

Edited November 8, 2017 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Bill from Maspeth]

3 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

Yes, but in a pinch, they could have it where a crew is set up to take the train back at Court Street and do a quick turnaround if you had an R32 train on the route.

Making this relevant to the SAS, they could do it where on weekends R32s are used on the between Metropolitan Avenue and 96th during the shutdown if in fact they do have the go there on weekends (as I would as previously noted would actually be looking to be doing 24/7 once the Myrtle EL portion reopens and the  is back on its regular route, splitting the into on its current route and to 96th/2nd, which would account for an overall increase in service between Metropolitan and 47th-50th with not too many (if any at all) extra trainsets needed). 

Having a crew sitting around doing nothing is not good utilization of crews.  Transit is not going to have a crew sit around at DeKalb just waiting for something bad to happen with the railroad.  Maybe in the old days yes, but today where budgets are always analyzed...........no.

Moving R32's to weekend only M service would entail lots of extra t/o's needed just to swap equipment both Friday night and Monday morning as well as holidays.  This increases operating costs and has an effect on the budget.

 

 

[Bill from Maspeth]

1 hour ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

How about today? This morning, while waiting for the train at Times Sq, the R46  pulled on the express. An R160  pulled in on the local at the same time. People got off that   for the  . Apparently, there must have been  some confusion. Unless they thought the  was going to leave first (it didn’t). But from what I saw, the side signs were inconsistent. The first car’s sign was blank and the second’s showed “  to Bay Ridge/95th St,” followed by a blank letter with “To 96th St/2nd Ave.” And the last car was signed up for the  .

I figured something like this might happen.

That's a maintenance issue.  When the c/r sets the signs on an R46 all cars are supposed to display the same reading.  If that doesn't happen, there is a defect in the electric portions in between cars 4 and 5 and/or a defect in the cables between the units.  It is up to car maintenance to repair this.  RTO complains, but CED does not repair.  

[R42N]

23 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

I know that message primarily pertains to me and I understand.  

There are many here who DON'T WANT TO HEAR why certain equipment is assigned to certain lines.  I'll explain why and because at times posters can't even take the time to read the same page where the answer is on, somebody else will ask the same question again!

R42N researched many of my past posts and picked out snippets where I did some tough love.  Fine.  But there are some very unworkable ideas presented here.  I get sarcastic when I present facts and my facts are challenged in subsequent posts!  There are so many ideas presented here, but believe me, transit either tried them or thought about them.  we have some pretty smart people, but they don't post here!

 

There is nothing wrong with a little bit of sarcasm, I do it all the time, but dismissing people’s thoughts through insults and angry remarks is anything but sarcasm. 

I think what we all have to realize collectively (as Lance eloquently alluded to) as a forum is that not everyone has the same knowledge as everyone else. Some people know the ins and outs without blinking, but others are new to transit, and might only know their line from their daily commute, and want to learn more. 

Of course, when experts are matched with newbies, it’s only natural for the experts to correct the inaccuracies, but in a general/open forum geared towards ANYONE who wants to talk about the topic of discussion, we should all respond with courtesy. I’m not saying we can’t joke or give “tough love” to the posters you’ve talked to for years, but there are a lot of newbies with few posts who are trying to dip their feet in the water, only to quickly retreat after receiving heavy criticism for an idea, that, with their limited knowledge of transit, thought was good. 

It is frustrating when, as you say, the same unworkable ideas get presented, but some people don’t understand what “Montague”, “CBTC” or “OPTO” mean, so we all (myself included) have to have patience. 

Anyway, as Lance said, it’s time to get back to discussion, but if we could try to just be a little more calm and understanding, it would go a long way. 

[R42N]

19 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

That's a maintenance issue.  When the c/r sets the signs on an R46 all cars are supposed to display the same reading.  If that doesn't happen, there is a defect in the electric portions in between cars 4 and 5 and/or a defect in the cables between the units.  It is up to car maintenance to repair this.  RTO complains, but CED does not repair.  

This is the hesitation I have to placing the R46’s on the  /  . I know it’s faster to have the c/r set the signs over rolling all the signs, but with just 32 cars on the  / , you can place two sets on the  and two on the  (usually 3  and 1  nowadays) and you’ll never have a problem at Astoria. The R46’s are so glitchy with their rollings, that you’d have problems in Manhattan with people trying to figure out if it’s an or a . 

Of course, you could place the R68 on the , but I guess they don’t want old tech on the SAS. 

[Bill from Maspeth]

12 minutes ago, R42N said:

There is nothing wrong with a little bit of sarcasm, I do it all the time, but dismissing people’s thoughts through insults and angry remarks is anything but sarcasm. 

I think what we all have to realize collectively (as Lance eloquently alluded to) as a forum is that not everyone has the same knowledge as everyone else. Some people know the ins and outs without blinking, but others are new to transit, and might only know their line from their daily commute, and want to learn more. 

Of course, when experts are matched with newbies, it’s only natural for the experts to correct the inaccuracies, but in a general/open forum geared towards ANYONE who wants to talk about the topic of discussion, we should all respond with courtesy. I’m not saying we can’t joke or give “tough love” to the posters you’ve talked to for years, but there are a lot of newbies with few posts who are trying to dip their feet in the water, only to quickly retreat after receiving heavy criticism for an idea, that, with their limited knowledge of transit, thought was good. 

It is frustrating when, as you say, the same unworkable ideas get presented, but some people don’t understand what “Montague”, “CBTC” or “OPTO” mean, so we all (myself included) have to have patience. 

Anyway, as Lance said, it’s time to get back to discussion, but if we could try to just be a little more calm and understanding, it would go a long way. 

Montague: Montague is the under river tunnel that the R runs thru between Manhattan (Whitehall St.) and Brooklyn (Court St.).

CBTC: the new signal system at NYCT.  The L has it already, the 7 is testing it, the Queens Blvd. IND is installing it.

OPTO: One Person Train Operation.  Used 24/7 on the Franklin Shuttle and Rock Park Shuttle.  2 t/o's who do not change ends on the Grand Central-Times Sq. shuttle so train can leave quickly if required.  Midnight hours on the Dyre Shuttle.  Weekends and holidays from Saturday schedule right after midnight till late Sunday night schedule on the G/M.  Suspended however on the M due to R42's currently assigned to the line and the viaduct work.

[R42N]

5 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Montague: Montague is the under river tunnel that the R runs thru between Manhattan (Whitehall St.) and Brooklyn (Court St.).

CBTC: the new signal system at NYCT.  The L has it already, the 7 is testing it, the Queens Blvd. IND is installing it.

OPTO: One Person Train Operation.  Used 24/7 on the Franklin Shuttle and Rock Park Shuttle.  2 t/o's who do not change ends on the Grand Central-Times Sq. shuttle so train can leave quickly if required.  Midnight hours on the Dyre Shuttle.  Weekends and holidays from Saturday schedule right after midnight till late Sunday night schedule on the G/M.  Suspended however on the M due to R42's currently assigned to the line and the viaduct work.

Is that sarcasm?  Haha. 

Anyway, let’s just all try to be more accepting of the varying levels of knowledge. 

All the best. 

[CenSin]

1 hour ago, R42N said:

There is nothing wrong with a little bit of sarcasm, I do it all the time, but dismissing people’s thoughts through insults and angry remarks is anything but sarcasm. 

I think what we all have to realize collectively (as Lance eloquently alluded to) as a forum is that not everyone has the same knowledge as everyone else. Some people know the ins and outs without blinking, but others are new to transit, and might only know their line from their daily commute, and want to learn more. 

Of course, when experts are matched with newbies, it’s only natural for the experts to correct the inaccuracies, but in a general/open forum geared towards ANYONE who wants to talk about the topic of discussion, we should all respond with courtesy. I’m not saying we can’t joke or give “tough love” to the posters you’ve talked to for years, but there are a lot of newbies with few posts who are trying to dip their feet in the water, only to quickly retreat after receiving heavy criticism for an idea, that, with their limited knowledge of transit, thought was good.

My beef is that sometimes people with faulty knowledge try to plow their point across regardless of such corrections. There are a good number of posters that will ignore facts contradicting their own agenda or dismiss the facts as inconsequential.

[Wallyhorse]

3 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Having a crew sitting around doing nothing is not good utilization of crews.  Transit is not going to have a crew sit around at DeKalb just waiting for something bad to happen with the railroad.  Maybe in the old days yes, but today where budgets are always analyzed...........no.

Moving R32's to weekend only M service would entail lots of extra t/o's needed just to swap equipment both Friday night and Monday morning as well as holidays.  This increases operating costs and has an effect on the budget.

The idea is the would be heavily R32s during the shutdown since it is extremely unlikely the would ever see Montague (yes, the Nassau line does have a connection to Montague, but that connection is rarely used anymore and any trains re-routed via Nassau would go to Chambers as they do now anyway).  This would be with the  trains during the shutdown likely going to 96th/2nd on Weekends and if by any off chance such had to run on Broadway, those trains could terminate at Whitehall or if possible before there (especially on a weekend where there is not as much service to begin with). 

[R68OnBroadway]

51 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

The idea is the would be heavily R32s during the shutdown since it is extremely unlikely the would ever see Montague (yes, the Nassau line does have a connection to Montague, but that connection is rarely used anymore and any trains re-routed via Nassau would go to Chambers as they do now anyway).  This would be with the  trains during the shutdown likely going to 96th/2nd on Weekends and if by any off chance such had to run on Broadway, those trains could terminate at Whitehall or if possible before there (especially on a weekend where there is not as much service to begin with). 

  No need to put the 32s on the  . This is just to get pics of 32s on SAS. 

[Lance]

16 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

How about today? This morning, while waiting for the train at Times Sq, the R46  pulled on the express. An R160  pulled in on the local at the same time. People got off that   for the  . Apparently, there must have been  some confusion. Unless they thought the  was going to leave first (it didn’t). But from what I saw, the side signs were inconsistent. The first car’s sign was blank and the second’s showed “  to Bay Ridge/95th St,” followed by a blank letter with “To 96th St/2nd Ave.” And the last car was signed up for the  .

I figured something like this might happen.

They probably bailed because that train was signed for everything but a . Apparently, nobody expected this and therefore did not get the code for side signs for the to Coney Island (0164 for those interested). Transit did do something good here. Probably as part of the long-delayed update to the displays' readings, they added an option for the to 96 Street.

| 96 ST/2 AV

| via BROADWAY

Here I thought they would use the old generic "to 96 ST/MANHTN" code.

14 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

That's a maintenance issue.  When the c/r sets the signs on an R46 all cars are supposed to display the same reading.  If that doesn't happen, there is a defect in the electric portions in between cars 4 and 5 and/or a defect in the cables between the units.  It is up to car maintenance to repair this.  RTO complains, but CED does not repair.  

Interesting. I guess that also explains why some cars have the older readings while others have the updated ones, all despite being part of the same consist.

[LGA Link N Train]

May I suggest something for the ??

If the midtown east part of second avenue phase 3 (55 and 42 Streets) were built with 4 tracks and 2 island platforms with an additional 2 tracks connecting the 63 Street tunnel and SAS together. Now while this may not be built in time for the train shutdown (or perhaps at all), It's something that i would consider in the long run

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

@Bill from Maspeth it was like that for me during the first few months I was on this site. After a while, I felt my content was ignored, too, so I took a different approach by taking my criticisms to Medium, where I have the room and the space to properly hash out my thoughts.

 

It's difficult to do that on a forum, as many users here, some of them employees, have diverging views on how things are done. This unintentionally allows the status quo to remain unchanged.

[R42N]

13 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

  No need to put the 32s on the  . This is just to get pics of 32s on SAS. 

So that we keep this thread SAS oriented, I’ll respond to this on the R32 Fleet Thread. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

5 hours ago, Lance said:

They probably bailed because that train was signed for everything but a . Apparently, nobody expected this and therefore did not get the code for side signs for the to Coney Island (0164 for those interested). Transit did do something good here. Probably as part of the long-delayed update to the displays' readings, they added an option for the to 96 Street.

| 96 ST/2 AV

| via BROADWAY

Here I thought they would use the old generic "to 96 ST/MANHTN" code.

Interesting. I guess that also explains why some cars have the older readings while others have the updated ones, all despite being part of the same consist.

Caught the R46  again today. This time most of the side signs were set correctly for the  . At least from the conductor’s car back, they were, since that was the car I rode in. One of the signs in my car was blank, but definitely better than yesterday’s signing up the train for “everything but a  .”

20 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

That's a maintenance issue.  When the c/r sets the signs on an R46 all cars are supposed to display the same reading.  If that doesn't happen, there is a defect in the electric portions in between cars 4 and 5 and/or a defect in the cables between the units.  It is up to car maintenance to repair this.  RTO complains, but CED does not repair.  

True. Like today, the signs appeared to be properly set. But the issue with R46 signs not showing the proper route info or being blank is nothing new. I’ve been seeing this on R46 (and R44) trains for years. 

[VIP]

Wasn’t  and  trains going up to 96th/2nd Avenue ? Why all of a sudden take the  up there? What’s in place for the 4 lost  trains on Queens Boulevard ?! 

[RR503]

 still does, but  only went during GOs on the astoria line. They couldn’t suck more  s so they peeled 1 (Not 4, unless I’m mistaken) off. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by RR503

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

49 minutes ago, VIP said:

Wasn’t  and  trains going up to 96th/2nd Avenue ? Why all of a sudden take the  up there? What’s in place for the 4 lost  trains on Queens Boulevard ?! 

The and are the only ones scheduled to go up to 96th Street, and it's only ONE  train.

10 minutes ago, D to 96 St said:

What time did you catch this? And does it run in the PM rush apart from the 7:01 trip from Bay Ridge? 

There's only the one in the AM rush, it runs from roughly 7 AM (leaving Bay Ridge to go to 96th) to 9 AM (as a going from 96th to Coney).

[T to Dyre Avenue]

38 minutes ago, D to 96 St said:

What time did you catch this? And does it run in the PM rush apart from the 7:01 trip from Bay Ridge? 

Yesterday, I saw it at Times Square just after 8:20 AM. Today, I caught it at Herald Square just after 8:25. So I might be riding it on a regular basis. I rode it today, but not yesterday. I have to say the R46 on the   rode quite nicely on the Broadway express run between Herald and Canal. I found it to be a more pleasant ride versus when I ride them on the  , thanks to the fewer stops. Also better than riding them on the  because the  makes more frequent stops between Fulton and 59th than the  does between Herald and Canal (though they do handle the Brooklyn express run just fine). But not as good as the  on the Queens Blvd express run, though obviously you won’t see a lot of R46s on the  due to the crowding on that line.

25 minutes ago, LegoBrickBreaker101 said:

The and are the only ones scheduled to go up to 96th Street, and it's only ONE  train.

There's only the one in the AM rush, it runs from roughly 7 AM (leaving Bay Ridge to go to 96th) to 9 AM (as a going from 96th to Coney).

Yes, it’s definitely not four trains. That would significantly impact Queens Blvd local service.

Edited November 9, 2017 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Bill from Maspeth]

9 hours ago, Lance said:

They probably bailed because that train was signed for everything but a . Apparently, nobody expected this and therefore did not get the code for side signs for the to Coney Island (0164 for those interested). Transit did do something good here. Probably as part of the long-delayed update to the displays' readings, they added an option for the to 96 Street.

| 96 ST/2 AV

| via BROADWAY

Here I thought they would use the old generic "to 96 ST/MANHTN" code.

Interesting. I guess that also explains why some cars have the older readings while others have the updated ones, all despite being part of the same consist.

That too!

[Bill from Maspeth]

1 hour ago, VIP said:

Wasn’t  and  trains going up to 96th/2nd Avenue ? Why all of a sudden take the  up there? What’s in place for the 4 lost  trains on Queens Boulevard ?! 

It's only one "lost" R train on Queens Blvd.  IDK where you get 4 from.

W trains are not scheduled to go to 96/2 in the rush, unless they are rerouted due to some sort of blockage.

Some W trains will go to 96/2 on a mid day supplement schedule when in one direction a local track on the Astoria line is out of service.  This is because there is flagging where trains must reduce speed to no more than 10 MPH.  This causes train congestion.  The planners feel that with alternate W's to 96/2 and Astoria will reduce that congestion.  

Edited November 10, 2017 by Bill from Maspeth

[Tonyboy515]

Wait wait wait..., So, where exactly does the R46 Q from CONEY ISLAND to 96th Street come from, and at approximately what time?