Second Avenue Subway Discussion

[R68OnBroadway]

5 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Good job on looking stupid. Can you at least look up the stuff you are "trying to talk about"?

Don't you realize he is a troll?

[LGA Link N Train]

1 hour ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Don't you realize he is a troll?

Facts

[BreeddekalbL]

I wonder what mr byford will do on the 2nd ave subway

[Bill from Maspeth]

20 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

I wonder what mr byford will do on the 2nd ave subway

In a place like Toronto he was the equivalent of MTA boss and NYCT boss at the same time.  Not here.  He has Lhota above him on the totem pole.  MTA (Lhota/Cuomo) are in charge of the 2nd Ave. subway funding.  Byford operates what Lhota/Cuomo funds and builds.  

[BreeddekalbL]

18 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

In a place like Toronto he was the equivalent of MTA boss and NYCT boss at the same time.  Not here.  He has Lhota above him on the totem pole.  MTA (Lhota/Cuomo) are in charge of the 2nd Ave. subway funding.  Byford operates what Lhota/Cuomo funds and builds.  

Supposedly he had a reputation on rescuing languishing projects 

Edited December 17, 2017 by BreeddekalbL

[LGA Link N Train]

20 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Supposedly he had a reputation on rescuing languishing projects 

If only he was here to SAVE ESA and SAS

[Bill from Maspeth]

2 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Supposedly he had a reputation on rescuing languishing projects 

 

1 hour ago, LGA Link N train said:

If only he was here to SAVE ESA and SAS

Again, he is not the new head of MTA, rather he is the new president of NYCT.

Different responsibilities.

Now if he does a bang up good job as president of NYCT, then perhaps MTA head could be in his future, but lets see how well he does at NYCT first.  This ain't Toronto.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Bill from Maspeth

[MHV9218]

On 12/16/2017 at 8:20 PM, Bill from Maspeth said:

In a place like Toronto he was the equivalent of MTA boss and NYCT boss at the same time.  Not here.  He has Lhota above him on the totem pole.  MTA (Lhota/Cuomo) are in charge of the 2nd Ave. subway funding.  Byford operates what Lhota/Cuomo funds and builds.  

Which is a tragedy, given that Byford is competent and Lhota is a mouthpiece for Cuomo, who is not. And when he is competent, he's not on the side of productive transit policy.

[Porter]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but they're making a big mistake by not going to Third Avenue–149th Street.

Speaking of the , I had a terrible nightmare that the Nassau line was truncated all the way back to a completely renovated Essex Street terminus. Tours were given of the old abandoned stretch between Essex and Broad streets, and older hipsters were sharing stories about riding the all the way downtown back in the day, and how cool it made them. The Chambers Street station looked as dilapidated as it does now, and the was in the middle of planning to demolish the Fulton Street section to allow for a seamless concourse connecting the  westward to the so that people wouldn't have to cross under via the platform. The Broad Street terminus became a make-shift museum, while the rest of the stations sat abandoned (barred off at Canal and cemented in at Bowery). The reason? Serious budget cuts made to pay for the SAS; even the was on the chopping block. I woke up very sad but relieved. The Nassau line deserves better.

[R68OnBroadway]

3 hours ago, Skipper said:

I hate to sound like a broken record, but they're making a big mistake by not going to Third Avenue–149th Street.

Speaking of the , I had a terrible nightmare that the Nassau line was truncated all the way back to a completely renovated Essex Street terminus. Tours were given of the old abandoned stretch between Essex and Broad streets, and older hipsters were sharing stories about riding the all the way downtown back in the day, and how cool it made them. The Chambers Street station looked as dilapidated as it does now, and the was in the middle of planning to demolish the Fulton Street section to allow for a seamless concourse connecting the  westward to the so that people wouldn't have to cross under via the platform. The Broad Street terminus became a make-shift museum, while the rest of the stations sat abandoned (barred off at Canal and cemented in at Bowery). The reason? Serious budget cuts made to pay for the SAS; even the was on the chopping block. I woke up very sad but relieved. The Nassau line deserves better.

That actually is kind of realistic- Cuomo would close down most small trunks to pay for SAS, MTA will never fix Chambers, hipsters will always act "cool" if they did something old once

Edited December 21, 2017 by R68OnBroadway

[Caelestor]

I've said before that extending the  up to 149 St would be the most cost-effective Phase 2 for SAS. The extension would offer the fastest Bronx route to the stops along the Broadway and 6 Ave lines, and in the process would relieve both the 7 Ave and Lex Ave lines. 

The capital and operating budgets are separate, so I don't think SAS construction will affect the .

[BreeddekalbL]

On 12/19/2017 at 12:20 AM, MHV9218 said:

Which is a tragedy, given that Byford is competent and Lhota is a mouthpiece for Cuomo, who is not. And when he is competent, he's not on the side of productive transit policy.

Yet byford sounds like cuomo is giving him large lattitude.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

2 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Yet byford sounds like cuomo is giving him large lattitude.

I really hope Cuomo and Lhota do give him such latitude. Too much meddling from the top will only make things worse. 

2 hours ago, Caelestor said:

I've said before that extending the  up to 149 St would be the most cost-effective Phase 2 for SAS. The extension would offer the fastest Bronx route to the stops along the Broadway and 6 Ave lines, and in the process would relieve both the 7 Ave and Lex Ave lines. 

The capital and operating budgets are separate, so I don't think SAS construction will affect the .

I think so too, especially as a former Northeast Bronx resident who rode the  lines on a regular basis. By having the  available at 149th and 3rd, you can get a sizable number of riders off the  lines before they even enter Manhattan and the  would have a much straighter - and faster - shot downtown.

[R42N]

23 hours ago, Caelestor said:

I've said before that extending the  up to 149 St would be the most cost-effective Phase 2 for SAS. The extension would offer the fastest Bronx route to the stops along the Broadway and 6 Ave lines, and in the process would relieve both the 7 Ave and Lex Ave lines. 

The capital and operating budgets are separate, so I don't think SAS construction will affect the .

That being said Nassau Street is a huge-huge issue. 

Ridership is so low (borderline nonexistent during weekends and completely empty during overnight hours) that there is little to no-motivation to renovate Chambers or Canal/Bowery. If they had another 2010-esc cut, I’d bet the  would be on the chopping block, and weekend  would get cut back to Essex Street. 

[S78 via Hylan]

Broad may not havehigh ridership, but Fulton St has seen more usage since the 24/7 extension of the  beyond Chambers St. It also comes in handy if the  are rerouted from Cranberry tunnel to Rutgers or when the  or  are not serving Fulton because of GOs.

[Around the Horn]

3 hours ago, R42N said:

Ridership is so low (borderline nonexistent during weekends and completely empty during overnight hours) that there is little to no-motivation to renovate Chambers or Canal/Bowery. If they had another 2010-esc cut, I’d bet the  would be on the chopping block, and weekend  would get cut back to Essex Street. 

You must have not taken the  recently...

It may not carry as much as the other lines on weekends but ridership is definitely not nonexistent. And with new developments coming on line near Essex St, Bowery and Broad St, it will only rise further.

[quadcorder]

36 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

You must have not taken the  recently...

It may not carry as much as the other lines on weekends but ridership is definitely not nonexistent. And with new developments coming on line near Essex St, Bowery and Broad St, it will only rise further.

not to mention the housing BOOM in williamsburg.

[LGA Link N Train]

So this should conclude the fact that the Nassau Street corridor SHOULD be renovated. 

But I'm thinking about something bigger.

Is it feasible to adjust Bowery and Canal Street since Half (or should I say more than half) of those stations are completely abandoned. Then Renovate Chambers Street which I feel has already been discussed somewhere else  (maybe)

[RR503]

Depends what you mean by "adjust."

Care to elaborate?

[LGA Link N Train]

42 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Depends what you mean by "adjust."

Care to elaborate?

The overall station designs and the curve between Bowery and Canal. Say for example.

Readjusting the track layout between Bowery and Canal and the platforms and mezzanines since there's so much abandoned infrastructure in those 2 stations alone. And possibly expanding the platforms for both the and the and . Though part of that is irrelevant right now.

Edited December 23, 2017 by LGA Link N train

[Lance]

I'm not sure how much more you can reconfigure the layout between those two stations there. At least not beyond what was done back in '04. Anything to expand the platforms would require removing the dividing walls at both stations, which support Kenmare St and Centre St above. It would be even harder for the bridge tracks for the Broadway line as any expansion would have to support the nearby buildings along Canal St. It's not impossible, but it would be a massive undertaking.

[Wallyhorse]

2 hours ago, Lance said:

I'm not sure how much more you can reconfigure the layout between those two stations there. At least not beyond what was done back in '04. Anything to expand the platforms would require removing the dividing walls at both stations, which support Kenmare St and Centre St above. It would be even harder for the bridge tracks for the Broadway line as any expansion would have to support the nearby buildings along Canal St. It's not impossible, but it would be a massive undertaking.

Plus, if you ever put the SAS on Nassau, you likely will need the abandoned infrastructure to be put back in service because you will need that for the to use the "express" tracks at Bowery even if no SAS line were to actually stop there, but instead continue straight to Canal Street (and come in on the "local" tracks at Canal while the stops on the "express" tracks there).  

[LGA Link N Train]

1 hour ago, Wallyhorse said:

Plus, if you ever put the SAS on Nassau, you likely will need the abandoned infrastructure to be put back in service because you will need that for the to use the "express" tracks at Bowery even if no SAS line were to actually stop there, but instead continue straight to Canal Street (and come in on the "local" tracks at Canal while the stops on the "express" tracks there).  

Not what I'm proposing here but ok

[bobtehpanda]

11 hours ago, LGA Link N train said:

Not what I'm proposing here but ok

He likes interjecting his ideas anywhere they seem to fit, pay it no mind.

[R68OnBroadway]

20 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

Plus, if you ever put the SAS on Nassau, you likely will need the abandoned infrastructure to be put back in service because you will need that for the to use the "express" tracks at Bowery even if no SAS line were to actually stop there, but instead continue straight to Canal Street (and come in on the "local" tracks at Canal while the stops on the "express" tracks there).  

If you were to connect SAS and Nassau, rather than build the jughandle to Bowery, just connect it to the old eastern tracks north of Canal, and then have those connect to the older eastern ones after Canal. No need to reconfigure everything and build a jughandle to a station that is in the bottom 5 for ridership in Manhattan.

I am not advocating for this though, connecting it to Nassau makes the line less attractive and does less of a service as Nassau already gets rather low ridership in comparison to other downtown trunks.

Edited December 27, 2017 by R68OnBroadway