Second Avenue Subway Discussion

[MysteriousBtrain]

6 minutes ago, Tonyboy515 said:

Wait wait wait..., So, where exactly does the R46 Q from CONEY ISLAND to 96th Street come from, and at approximately what time?

It's an to 96 St beginning at Bay Ridge at 7:01, then it turns into a Coney Island after 8:05. After that, it lays up and that's the end of service.

Edited November 10, 2017 by MysteriousBtrain

[Tonyboy515]

Too late for me xD

So it only goes to Coney as a Q and that's it?

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Tonyboy515

[BreeddekalbL]

Doesnt this r via q come from the late night to whitehall??

[MysteriousBtrain]

7 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Doesnt this r via q come from the late night to whitehall??

No it comes from one of the first trips from Forest Hills.

[Daniel The Cool]

6 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

No it comes from one of the first trips from Forest Hills.

The train itself yes, the crew no. The Crew that takes it to 96th Street is an overnight crew that signs out at 96th Street.

[BreeddekalbL]

54 minutes ago, Daniel The Cool said:

The train itself yes, the crew no. The Crew that takes it to 96th Street is an overnight crew that signs out at 96th Street.

Then who takes it down a Q crew that takes it to ciyd?

[Around the Horn]

3 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Then who takes it down a Q crew that takes it to ciyd?

I think its one of the crews that do an R put-in in the PM, because I've seen the same set at 71st around 3:20 that same afternoon.

[Eric B]

They probably have the switchman at ST-Q take it to the yard (unless the Q road T/O is scheduled to lay it up himself), and then a PM R crew will sign in in the yard and put it for the PM; running light via the N to 59th. (I’ve had one of those jobs in vacation relief, years ago).

[Wallyhorse]

On 11/8/2017 at 11:04 PM, R68OnBroadway said:

  No need to put the 32s on the  . This is just to get pics of 32s on SAS. 

Actually, this is about simply where to put the R32s, period.  It just works out having them on the  may be the best spot for them, and it's a coincidence that during the shutdown the likely on weekends will be going to 96th and 2nd (as noted before, something I would actually start doing as soon as the fully returns to the Myrtle EL portion of its route with an overall increase of service on the line split into and  with the running 5TPH weekdays to 96th/2nd (as the real purpose would be to increase service between Metropolitan and 47-50 on 6th Avenue)) .  

[R68OnBroadway]

7 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

Actually, this is about simply where to put the R32s, period.  It just works out having them on the  may be the best spot for them, and it's a coincidence that during the shutdown the likely on weekends will be going to 96th and 2nd (as noted before, something I would actually start doing as soon as the fully returns to the Myrtle EL portion of its route with an overall increase of service on the line split into and  with the running 5TPH weekdays to 96th/2nd (as the real purpose would be to increase service between Metropolitan and 47-50 on 6th Avenue)) .  

There are several problems with this:

The  run OPTO 4 car R160s on weekends. R32s would increase labor costs.

There is not much demand for central Queens-Midtown service on weekends, and riders can just take the  to the  ,  ,  , or  .

 service on SAS is enough. No need for the  , as riders have a cross platform transfer at 63rd, or they can transfer at Herald Sq. 

A R32 breaking down on 6th will put it in gridlock, and if it does not break down in a station, then in the tunnel the AC will die quickly and the passengers will start to faint. Knowing MTA's terrible evacuation procedures, I wouldn't be surprised if passengers would die.

Also, with their declining HVAC units, the R32s will have to be put on outside lines. The  is split if sent to 96th, and this is too risky for the cars. Best option they have is the Rock  as any breakdowns there will not affect the line that much as they can easily be pushed by another train and relocated to Rockaway Pk Yard. Plus, Rockaway headways are so horrendous that nothing really would change.

Overall, this whole R32  and  thing makes no sense. The  should be fine on SAS, and if a extension is necessary, just send the  to 96th with R160s.

[R42N]

11 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

There are several problems with this:

The  run OPTO 4 car R160s on weekends. R32s would increase labor costs.

There is not much demand for central Queens-Midtown service on weekends, and riders can just take the  to the  ,  ,  , or  .

 service on SAS is enough. No need for the  , as riders have a cross platform transfer at 63rd, or they can transfer at Herald Sq. 

A R32 breaking down on 6th will put it in gridlock, and if it does not break down in a station, then in the tunnel the AC will die quickly and the passengers will start to faint. Knowing MTA's terrible evacuation procedures, I wouldn't be surprised if passengers would die.

Also, with their declining HVAC units, the R32s will have to be put on outside lines. The  is split if sent to 96th, and this is too risky for the cars. Best option they have is the Rock  as any breakdowns there will not affect the line that much as they can easily be pushed by another train and relocated to Rockaway Pk Yard. Plus, Rockaway headways are so horrendous that nothing really would change.

Overall, this whole R32  and  thing makes no sense. The  should be fine on SAS, and if a extension is necessary, just send the  to 96th with R160s.

I agree, but you have to remember that the Rockaway’s are only 25-30 cars, you’ll have to place some more 32’s somewhere else. 

Also, I agree 100%, that service on SAS is enough. Worse comes to worse extract one more  or one more . 

[R68OnBroadway]

My R32 assignments for 2019-2022 (or whenever the R211s enter service en mass):

I would say 100 R32s in total would be left.

Rock  - 20 cars, 6 cars per train. 3 in service with an extra pair.

 -  80 cars, 8 cars per train. 7 in service with extra set.

 

 

[Wallyhorse]

On 11/12/2017 at 9:05 AM, R68OnBroadway said:

There are several problems with this:

The  run OPTO 4 car R160s on weekends. R32s would increase labor costs.

There is not much demand for central Queens-Midtown service on weekends, and riders can just take the  to the  ,  ,  , or  .

 service on SAS is enough. No need for the  , as riders have a cross platform transfer at 63rd, or they can transfer at Herald Sq. 

A R32 breaking down on 6th will put it in gridlock, and if it does not break down in a station, then in the tunnel the AC will die quickly and the passengers will start to faint. Knowing MTA's terrible evacuation procedures, I wouldn't be surprised if passengers would die.

Also, with their declining HVAC units, the R32s will have to be put on outside lines. The  is split if sent to 96th, and this is too risky for the cars. Best option they have is the Rock  as any breakdowns there will not affect the line that much as they can easily be pushed by another train and relocated to Rockaway Pk Yard. Plus, Rockaway headways are so horrendous that nothing really would change.

Overall, this whole R32  and  thing makes no sense. The  should be fine on SAS, and if a extension is necessary, just send the  to 96th with R160s.

During the shutdown, the (or split into and as I would do it) is likely going to be eight cars at all times, so that is not an issue.  As said, going to 96th/2nd on weekends is a coincidence in this case.

The A/C issue, especially during the summer is something that is an issue (especially on cars that are now 53 years old) and I can see the problem of having them on 6th Avenue.  The problem is, as noted in subsequent post, the Rock Park Shuttle only needs about 20 cars and all of the cars currently on the road are needed, so where do you put them?  That's also why I look at the (M), especially if it does go to 96th/2nd on weekends as it would be outside for about half its route.  

Until the R32s are no longer needed and can be fully scrapped, they still have to be used somewhere.  Having them on the (M), especially if it is going to 96th/2nd on weekends probably makes about as much sense as possible as the lesser evil.  The fact it gets the R32s on the SAS is an added bonus for railfans. 

[Around the Horn]

Hold up, hold up... 

Placing 53 year old cars with the worst reliability in the fleet on what will be a vital service during the tunnel closure is a lesser evil?!

[R42N]

26 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

Hold up, hold up... 

Placing 53 year old cars with the worst reliability in the fleet on what will be a vital service during the tunnel closure is a lesser evil?!

I'd truthfully retire some, and put whatever's left on the . Yes, it's Montague is a problem, but it's not a huge one, and if the  doesn't seem to have an issue with it, so, why not?

Edited November 13, 2017 by R42N

[Lance]

Let's get a couple of things straight right away. First off, the 32s are not going on the during the Canarsie closure, even if it is only on the weekends when it's purported to run to 96 Street. The days of varying weekday/weekend fleets are long since over. The last time we saw this was between 2001 and 2006 when the 143s ran on the  shuttle in lieu of the 42s for OPTO service. Also, as mentioned above, putting literally the oldest cars in existence on what will become the most popular line during the Canarsie closure is a recipe for disaster. It's the exact reason why they don't presently run on the line. Secondly, there is currently no plan to retire any of the 32s at this point, even as the 179s are delivered and placed into service. There simply are not enough cars to facilitate an early retirement of these cars, not without ordering more 179s or accelerating the R211 order.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

5 hours ago, R42N said:

I'd truthfully retire some, and put whatever's left on the . Yes, it's Montague is a problem, but it's not a huge one, and if the  doesn't seem to have an issue with it, so, why not?

We don’t know if they have an issue with it because they haven’t run R32s on the  since well before Sandy slapped the City around. We don’t know what’s going to happen if they do assign them there. But I think it’s safe to say they don’t want to risk completely screwing up service in the BMT South by being unable to turn back an R32  train that’s too wide for the Montague Tunnel.

[R42N]

58 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

We don’t know if they have an issue with it because they haven’t run R32s on the  since well before Sandy slapped the City around. We don’t know what’s going to happen if they do assign them there. But I think it’s safe to say they don’t want to risk completely screwing up service in the BMT South by being unable to turn back an R32  train that’s too wide for the Montague Tunnel.

That’s true, but some fairly credible people have posted hints that the MTA is seriously considering it, so obviously it’s a valid thought. 

[Union Tpke]

1 hour ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

We don’t know if they have an issue with it because they haven’t run R32s on the  since well before Sandy slapped the City around. We don’t know what’s going to happen if they do assign them there. But I think it’s safe to say they don’t want to risk completely screwing up service in the BMT South by being unable to turn back an R32  train that’s too wide for the Montague Tunnel.

People in OP have stated that this is an option they have put on the table, so I think that they have thought about the consequences. They have smart people working there.

[VIP]

Coney Island, just like East New York maintains their cars really well, so the R32’s can go on the  that will free up some R68/A’s and the  can at least be a decent length with 8-car sets to accommodate more riders per trainset. The R32’s breaking down on the  won’t be so catastrophic. 

[R68OnBroadway]

1 minute ago, VIP said:

Coney Island, just like East New York maintains their cars really well, so the R32’s can go on the  that will free up some R68/A’s and the  can at least be a decent length with 8-car sets to accommodate more riders per trainset. The R32’s breaking down on the  won’t be so catastrophic. 

Cough cough R42s

 

At least they take care of their 32s

 

[Bill from Maspeth]

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 8:08 AM, R68OnBroadway said:

My R32 assignments for 2019-2022 (or whenever the R211s enter service en mass):

I would say 100 R32s in total would be left.

Rock  - 20 cars, 6 cars per train. 3 in service with an extra pair.

 -  80 cars, 8 cars per train. 7 in service with extra set.

 

 

R32's on the Rock Park shuttle won't happen because it's an OPTO line.  Adding conductors will increase labor costs.

R32's on the G is a non starter, either today or when the L shuts down.  The line is mostly underground and R32's are not good with air conditioning under that scenario.

[Bill from Maspeth]

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 12:39 PM, R42N said:

I'd truthfully retire some, and put whatever's left on the . Yes, it's Montague is a problem, but it's not a huge one, and if the  doesn't seem to have an issue with it, so, why not?

R32's are not going on the B for the reason why I have previously stated.

[Bill from Maspeth]

19 hours ago, R42N said:

That’s true, but some fairly credible people have posted hints that the MTA is seriously considering it, so obviously it’s a valid thought. 

And who are some of these fairly credible people?

[RR503]

What would you suggest the TA does? We’ve heard a lot of what you wouldn’t do.

Let’s assume R179s arrive by the time  shuts down.