NJT proposals/ideas thread 2012-2013

[qjtransitmaster]

Some coincidence... remember who this is all coming from (a non-NJ resident) !

 

While I agree that there should be a route connecting to Irvington from that region of NJ, I wasn't quite sure where in central jersey such a route would catch on/flourish.... That's why I never bothered to put any real thought into it....

 

But now that you mention it, Irvington-Woodbridge-Perth Amboy doesn't sound like too bad an idea (although you'd have to drop the 815 notation).... The question would be, how to route such a route exactly..... That could be another way to fill that gap b/w avenel & woodbridge along rt 35...... To get to Irvington from central jersey, you pretty much gotta go through Elizabeth via the 48, via some other route (like the 26)....

good I was thinking of having it run every 30 mins then replace 817 en rte to keansburg. However i may prefer to have it serve rte 35 as no service is available on that corridor or on 36 as academy service on it is non existent off-peak. While rte 36 part of 817 is transferred to modified 819. 819 metuchen becomes 819 campbell's jct it goes via 813 routing to raritan center then via GSP to rte 36 it then meets this line and goes via 817 routing with improved 30 min frequencies service span boosted to 8 pm. hourly after 7 PM though. 

As for the irvington line it would be numbered 309 or merged with 90 or with 309 designation mostly interlined at random with different routes that end at irvington bus terminal or near there that travel north of irvington.

 

does anyone know about this bus http://co.monmouth.nj.us/documents/24%5CDock%20&%20Roll%20Schedules.pdf

???

 

Here's the list of shuttles they provide.

 

I don't feel like looking at each schedule right now, but I doubt they provide a service to a regular residential neighborhood that just happens to be nearby. Aside from that, from what I've heard, most of the students who live off-campus live south of the tracks.

what tracks what you mean by south of the tracks?

Edited March 16, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[B35 via Church]

good I was thinking of having it run every 30 mins then replace 817 en rte to keansburg. However i may prefer to have it serve rte 35 as no service is available on that corridor or on 36 as academy service on it is non existent off-peak. While rte 36 part of 817 is transferred to modified 819. 819 metuchen becomes 819 campbell's jct it goes via 813 routing to raritan center then via GSP to rte 36 it then meets this line and goes via 817 routing with improved 30 min frequencies service span boosted to 8 pm. hourly after 7 PM though. 

If this isn't about the irvington line, then what are you talking about with all this....

 

Thinking of having what run every 30 mins & replacing 817 en rte to keansburg ????

[checkmatechamp13]

what tracks what you mean by south of the tracks?

 

The NEC tracks. That whole area around Suydam Street, etc

 

If this isn't about the irvington line, then what are you talking about with all this....

 

Thinking of having what run every 30 mins & replacing 817 en rte to keansburg ????

 

I think he's referring to the Irvington line.

[B35 via Church]

I think he's referring to the Irvington line.

I thought so too, up until this was said:

 

"As for the irvington line it would be numbered 309 or merged with 90 or with 309 designation mostly interlined at random with different routes that end at irvington bus terminal or near there that travel north of irvington."

 

....which leads me to believe he went off on a tangent about something else with that whole 817, 813, 819 bit....

That part of central jersey (keansburg, etc) doesn't need a direct connection to Irvington....

Either way though, I don't agree w/ whatever he's talkin about with that....

Edited March 16, 2013 by B35 via Church

[qjtransitmaster]

I thought so too, up until this was said:

 

"As for the irvington line it would be numbered 309 or merged with 90 or with 309 designation mostly interlined at random with different routes that end at irvington bus terminal or near there that travel north of irvington."

 

....which leads me to believe he went off on a tangent about something else with that whole 817, 813, 819 bit....

That part of central jersey (keansburg, etc) doesn't need a direct connection to Irvington....

Either way though, I don't agree w/ whatever he's talkin about with that....

I see it will stop at metropark where a 330 line will go to bloomfield and union via GSP. However I was considering 819 serving that part with the irvington line well ending at aberdeen or via 135 routing off-peak. A new 305 would serve rte 35 then replace 835 as well. This would be sea bright branch. The other branch via rte 34 to absorb some of 830. Or just go to lavalette. Basically how to implement the line was what I was debating. Edited March 17, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[DaTransitMan4608]

I see it will stop at metropark where a 330 line will go to bloomfield and union via GSP. However I was considering 819 serving that part with the irvington line well ending at aberdeen or via 135 routing off-peak.

A new 305 would serve rte 35 then replace 835 as well. This would be sea bright branch. The other branch via rte 34 to absorb some of 830. Or just go to lavalette. Basically how to implement the line was what I was debating.

I don't agree with this one. Not many people down here want Bloomfield or Union. If you end it at Metropark, it might get some ridership from those who use that station. But I don't think many people are gonna want Bloomfield.

 

Sea Bright isn't along 35 btw, It's along 36.

 

NJT 16 Springfield-Irvington-Newark: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d7faf9691fee9db9d&msa=0&ll=40.72186,-74.223011&spn=0.013303,0.027874

 

NJT 65 Freehold-Newark. As for the current 65 (the one that's combo-ed with the 66) it will become the 366. Hey, it was either 65 or 69. And I sure as hell don't want any immature people makin' jokes. https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d7faf9691fee9db9d&msa=0&ll=40.72186,-74.223011&spn=0.013303,0.027874

Edited March 18, 2013 by Transitkid4608

[qjtransitmaster]

I don't agree with this one. Not many people down here want Bloomfield or Union. If you end it at Metropark, it might get some ridership from those who use that station. But I don't think many people are gonna want Bloomfield.

 

Sea Bright isn't along 35 btw, It's along 36.

 

NJT 16 Springfield-Irvington-Newark: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d7faf9691fee9db9d&msa=0&ll=40.72186,-74.223011&spn=0.013303,0.027874

 

NJT 65 Freehold-Newark. As for the current 65 (the one that's combo-ed with the 66) it will become the 366. Hey, it was either 65 or 69. And I sure as hell don't want any immature people makin' jokes. https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d7faf9691fee9db9d&msa=0&ll=40.72186,-74.223011&spn=0.013303,0.027874

ending at metropark is not good enough it gains ridership from connecting passengers from the lines it links to.

 

Ohh hint look at my SI S55 post it also relates to NJT.

Edited March 18, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[B35 via Church]

I don't agree with this one. Not many people down here want Bloomfield or Union. If you end it at Metropark, it might get some ridership from those who use that station. But I don't think many people are gonna want Bloomfield.

ending at metropark is not good enough it gains ridership from connecting passengers from the lines it links to.

I actually agree w/ both of these statements.... 

 

Transitkid basically said what I did in my last post in this thread; folks in that part of the state (generally) don't want Irvington/Bloomfield/Union....

 

However, I wouldn't terminate any (other) route(s) at Metropark either (outside of the loops, which IMO should be the only ones doing as such)..... Hell, it's one of a few reasons why I thought up that perth amboy-plainfield route (via metropark) - Instead of continuing to have the 48 backtrack to metropark en route to elizabeth from woodbridge mall & extending the 815 from woodbridge mall, to end at metropark.....

Edited March 18, 2013 by B35 via Church

[DaTransitMan4608]

However, I wouldn't terminate any (other) route(s) at Metropark either (outside of the loops, which IMO should be the only ones doing as such)..... Hell, it's one of a few reasons why I thought up that perth amboy-plainfield route (via metropark) - Instead of continuing to have the 48 backtrack to metropark en route to elizabeth from woodbridge mall & extending the 815 from woodbridge mall, to end at metropark.....

Funny you mentioned Perth Amboy to Plainfield, I have a route just like that one. Except mine doesn't go via Metropark. Mine goes to Bridgewater Commons via Plainfield with some trips short-turning at Middlesex Mall.

 

I like that idea of extending the 815 to Metropark. It fills the gap between Woodbridge & Metropark when the 803 isn't running. I never understood, why the 48 isn't mapped like this (The red line is the current 48 Woodbridge Center, and the black one is my revision of it.):

[qjtransitmaster]

Funny you mentioned Perth Amboy to Plainfield, I have a route just like that one. Except mine doesn't go via Metropark. Mine goes to Bridgewater Commons via Plainfield with some trips short-turning at Middlesex Mall.

 

I like that idea of extending the 815 to Metropark. It fills the gap between Woodbridge & Metropark when the 803 isn't running. I never understood, why the 48 isn't mapped like this (The red line is the current 48 Woodbridge Center, and the black one is my revision of it.):

NOT gonna lie your perth amboy to bridgewater commons idea is one of your best ideas so far. I'd take it a step higher and replace 884 with it and time with trans-bridge at the P&R at rush hr.

Edited March 19, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[B35 via Church]

Funny you mentioned Perth Amboy to Plainfield, I have a route just like that one. Except mine doesn't go via Metropark. Mine goes to Bridgewater Commons via Plainfield with some trips short-turning at Middlesex Mall.

 

I like that idea of extending the 815 to Metropark. It fills the gap between Woodbridge & Metropark when the 803 isn't running. I never understood, why the 48 isn't mapped like this (The red line is the current 48 Woodbridge Center, and the black one is my revision of it.):

 

**image**

 

I wasn't proposing 815 to metropark, I have it cut back at perth amboy....

It would be rather redundant to have the 815 extended to metropark & have the 816 the way I have it.....

 

As far as the 48 b/w woodbridge mall & metropark, it likely has to do w/ providing service to residential green st outside peak hrs.... Whenever I rode the old 62, I don't think there was anyone that boarded along green st... so if you're questioning demand in having 48's taking on the current course, I'd be right there along with you with that.....

[DaTransitMan4608]

NOT gonna lie your perth amboy to bridgewater commons idea is one of your best ideas so far. I'd take it a step higher and replace 884 with it and time with trans-bridge at the P&R at rush hr.

Nah, I don't think having a route that travels from Perth Amboy to Clinton is gonna generate much ridership past Bridgewater Commons. That mall is a huge hotspot for people in Middlesex County, hell even some New Yorkers make day trips out of shopping there. That's kinda why the 114 serves it.

 

As far as the 48 b/w woodbridge mall & metropark, it likely has to do w/ providing service to residential green st outside peak hrs.... Whenever I rode the old 62, I don't think there was anyone that boarded along green st... so if you're questioning demand in having 48's taking on the current course, I'd be right there along with you with that.....

Yeah, I haven't been on the 62 (well now the 48) in years. I might find the time to do it over spring break. Anyway, I can't really tell you what I saw along Green St. when I took the 62 all those years ago because I vaguely remember that trip (I was like 4 when I took it, and I was asleep half the ride so it's still fuzzy to me). If it gets riders from Green St, then I won't strip them of service, I'll just have certain 48's go via Gill Lane to Metropark.

 

Was it you who proposed cutting the 815 back to Perth Amboy? If so, I agree with that, but if you do that, a lot of 48's that depart from Perth Amboy are gonna have to stop at Woodbridge Center to fill the gap because a lot of the 815's riders are people heading to the mall.

[B35 via Church]

...Yeah, I haven't been on the 62 (well now the 48) in years. I might find the time to do it over spring break. Anyway, I can't really tell you what I saw along Green St. when I took the 62 all those years ago because I vaguely remember that trip (I was like 4 when I took it, and I was asleep half the ride so it's still fuzzy to me). If it gets riders from Green St, then I won't strip them of service, I'll just have certain 48's go via Gill Lane to Metropark.

 

Was it you who proposed cutting the 815 back to Perth Amboy? If so, I agree with that, but if you do that, a lot of 48's that depart from Perth Amboy are gonna have to stop at Woodbridge Center to fill the gap because a lot of the 815's riders are people heading to the mall.

Yeah, that was me....

 

I have the 815 cut back to Perth, the 48 cut back to woodbridge (both branches), and my "816" plainfield-perth transporting pax b/w perth & woodbridge..... the 48 out of perth doesn't go to woodbridge mall anyway, so that's a moot point - which is likely due to the 815 running the way it does..... Not to toot my own horn (which I hate doing), but that's the genius behind having a "816" do what it does, instead of the 815's during the day that only run between perth & woodbridge mall....

 

The way the 815 is now, every other trip during the day is basically a shuttle b/w perth amboy & woodbridge mall..... You have the 815's that run b/w [new brunswick & woodbridge mall (earlier & later parts of the day)], and the 815's that [run b/w new brunswick & perth amboy] & [perth amboy & woodbridge mall] (middle chunk of the day).... To sum it up, the service is segmented, which I don't agree should be the case.... I mean on the weekends, all 815 trips out of new brunswick run up to woodbridge mall, but during the weekday, that's not the case......

 

Rather than keep the 815 segmented like that, and rather than extend all 815 trips to woodbridge mall, I'd rather have some other full time route or w/e run b/w perth & woodbridge mall, and onto some other area past woodbridge (which I happen to have chosen plainfield because I realize there is demand for that)..... As you know, the 819 does absolutely nothing for woodbridge & perth amboy patrons.....

Edited March 20, 2013 by B35 via Church

[qjtransitmaster]

Nah, I don't think having a route that travels from Perth Amboy to Clinton is gonna generate much ridership past Bridgewater Commons. That mall is a huge hotspot for people in Middlesex County, hell even some New Yorkers make day trips out of shopping there. That's kinda why the 114 serves it.

 

 

Yeah, I haven't been on the 62 (well now the 48) in years. I might find the time to do it over spring break. Anyway, I can't really tell you what I saw along Green St. when I took the 62 all those years ago because I vaguely remember that trip (I was like 4 when I took it, and I was asleep half the ride so it's still fuzzy to me). If it gets riders from Green St, then I won't strip them of service, I'll just have certain 48's go via Gill Lane to Metropark.

 

Was it you who proposed cutting the 815 back to Perth Amboy? If so, I agree with that, but if you do that, a lot of 48's that depart from Perth Amboy are gonna have to stop at Woodbridge Center to fill the gap because a lot of the 815's riders are people heading to the mall.

That is why it's rush hr only business parks all over that corridor. 884 was scheduled horribly hence why it failed.

[DaTransitMan4608]

Yeah, that was me....

 

I have the 815 cut back to Perth, the 48 cut back to woodbridge (both branches), and my "816" plainfield-perth transporting pax b/w perth & woodbridge..... the 48 out of perth doesn't go to woodbridge mall anyway, so that's a moot point - which is likely due to the 815 running the way it does..... Not to toot my own horn (which I hate doing), but that's the genius behind having a "816" do what it does, instead of the 815's during the day that only run between perth & woodbridge mall....

 

The way the 815 is now, every other trip during the day is basically a shuttle b/w perth amboy & woodbridge mall..... You have the 815's that run b/w [new brunswick & woodbridge mall (earlier & later parts of the day)], and the 815's that [run b/w new brunswick & perth amboy] & [perth amboy & woodbridge mall] (middle chunk of the day).... To sum it up, the service is segmented, which I don't agree should be the case.... I mean on the weekends, all 815 trips out of new brunswick run up to woodbridge mall, but during the weekday, that's not the case......

I knew they went Perth Amboy - Woodbridge, but this New Brunswick - Perth Amboy only service is news to me. I've never seen an 815 do a New Brunswick to Perth Amboy short-turn. The Woodbridge-Perth Amboy ones yeah, but this one is certainly news to me. Those segments make it hard for the people who use it between Woodbridge and points beyond Perth Amboy. On the weekends they run like every hour. I remember when I used to get off the 817 in South Amboy and wait there for the 815 it felt like an hour wait between buses. I started riding the 817 to Perth Amboy instead because the transfer time didn't seem as long as it was in South Amboy.

 

Rather than keep the 815 segmented like that, and rather than extend all 815 trips to woodbridge mall, I'd rather have some other full time route or w/e run b/w perth & woodbridge mall, and onto some other area past woodbridge (which I happen to have chosen plainfield because I realize there is demand for that)..... As you know, the 819 does absolutely nothing for woodbridge & perth amboy patrons.....

I'd take that 816 as an alternative to the 815. Are you gonna route it to take the same way the 815 does, or is it gonna use a different route?

[B35 via Church]

I knew they went Perth Amboy - Woodbridge, but this New Brunswick - Perth Amboy only service is news to me. I've never seen an 815 do a New Brunswick to Perth Amboy short-turn. The Woodbridge-Perth Amboy ones yeah, but this one is certainly news to me. Those segments make it hard for the people who use it between Woodbridge and points beyond Perth Amboy. On the weekends they run like every hour. I remember when I used to get off the 817 in South Amboy and wait there for the 815 it felt like an hour wait between buses. I started riding the 817 to Perth Amboy instead because the transfer time didn't seem as long as it was in South Amboy.

 

I'd take that 816 as an alternative to the 815. Are you gonna route it to take the same way the 815 does, or is it gonna use a different route?

The ones that stopped dead in perth amboy came as a surprise to me too.... Last time I took it, I remember getting so pissed that I just said to hell with it & just ended the fantrip altogether, walking over to Perth Amboy RR & went back home... IIRC, that day, I wanted to do the full 815 to the full 810 (back to new brunswick) to the 811 to the 818 to the 139 back to NY..... On weekends, the 815 is like the 818 where it runs on some crazy headway of about every hour & 10-15 mins... It's like they're torn between running em every hour & running them every hour & a half....

 

Oh, the "816" would take a similar routing to your "812" b/w perth & woodbridge, except your route is coming from the south & my route is coming from the east (meaning, downtown perth amboy, etc) to get to woodbridge..... See here (the "816" is the lime green line)....

[DaTransitMan4608]

The ones that stopped dead in perth amboy came as a surprise to me too.... Last time I took it, I remember getting so pissed that I just said to hell with it & just ended the fantrip altogether, walking over to Perth Amboy RR & went back home... IIRC, that day, I wanted to do the full 815 to the full 810 (back to new brunswick) to the 811 to the 818 to the 139 back to NY..... On weekends, the 815 is like the 818 where it runs on some crazy headway of about every hour & 10-15 mins... It's like they're torn between running em every hour & running them every hour & a half....

I will never understand why some drivers make an unscheduled short-turn at Academy. One time when I was on the 815 coming from Woodbridge (this one was bound for Perth Amboy), the driver ended his run on State & Center Streets when he was really supposed to end at Rector & Washington. Then there was another time (New Brunswick-bound this time) where a driver went South on Rector, turned on to Smith, and back on to High (In the direction like he was going to the mall). I'm like "The hell are you doing?" I thought it was because he was having an argument with this Spanish lady (What they were arguing about, I don't know. It was all in Spanish.) Luckily for me, that was my stop on High St.

 

Oh, the "816" would take a similar routing to your "812" b/w perth & woodbridge, except your route is coming from the south & my route is coming from the east (meaning, downtown perth amboy, etc) to get to woodbridge..... See here (the "816" is the lime green line)....

I like this one, one thing about it is there aren't any bus stops along that section of Route 9 (that's currently the only bus-free portion of '9 at all), but that's mainly because there aren't many businesses along the Woodbridge stretch of '9. But it shouldn't hurt your "816" at all.

 

I see it follows the 48's path to Metropark. Nice call there, but I'd have like 1 or 2 trips use Gill Lane to Metropark during rush hour, kinda like my reroute of the 48 that I posted earlier.

[go25]

I don't agree with this one. Not many people down here want Bloomfield or Union. If you end it at Metropark, it might get some ridership from those who use that station. But I don't think many people are gonna want Bloomfield.

 

Sea Bright isn't along 35 btw, It's along 36.

 

NJT 16 Springfield-Irvington-Newark: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d7faf9691fee9db9d&msa=0&ll=40.72186,-74.223011&spn=0.013303,0.027874

 

NJT 65 Freehold-Newark. As for the current 65 (the one that's combo-ed with the 66) it will become the 366. Hey, it was either 65 or 69. And I sure as hell don't want any immature people makin' jokes. https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d7faf9691fee9db9d&msa=0&ll=40.72186,-74.223011&spn=0.013303,0.027874

 

 

while i gotta admit to ya kid, you got some very bright ideas, and some that has stirred the pot a bit here. about the #16 route of yours, while it sounds good, that area is already covered by the 70. Not to mention the 52 to Elizabeth, 66 to Newark/Union College/Mountainside and the 114 to NYC serve that area. but still got to give u props for your ideas

[qjtransitmaster]

while i gotta admit to ya kid, you got some very bright ideas, and some that has stirred the pot a bit here. about the #16 route of yours, while it sounds good, that area is already covered by the 70. Not to mention the 52 to Elizabeth, 66 to Newark/Union College/Mountainside and the 114 to NYC serve that area. but still got to give u props for your ideas

Like most of his routes are. But I think he is aware. Which is why I post less often I don't want to just be route by route. I want to just area by area remove weak lines replace 800s mostly with stronger lines that generate more revenue and lose less money than their original forms. Some however do have the ability to become stronger or evolve like 813/819 and 818. 

I look into the carriers and see where NJT can and can't have NYC bound buses. There is a reason why NJT doesn't run NYC bound bus service to morris county. It is covered by lakeland and CUSA which is why 73 is there rather than some NYC route. NJT is not allowed to run NYC service in those areas as the lines have been up for bidding and CUSA and lakeland won the routes. Trans-bridge' allentown service was formerly NJT 350.

 

Which was one of the many reasons 884 was split from 114. The main reason was length ect.

 

Academy has a deal with NJT to joint rte 9 service at rush hour due to the extreme ridership!!!!!! Notice how most rte 9 if not 90% or more Midtown bound rte 9 service is NJT139 while Academy covers wall street.

 

Also on rte 549 in ocean PABT service is NJT137 while wall street service is Academy notice how they have different manhattan destinations they rarely share exact routing. Obviously there is a deal on who gets what market and which line NJT or other carriers get in regards to NYC service.

[B35 via Church]

I will never understand why some drivers make an unscheduled short-turn at Academy. One time when I was on the 815 coming from Woodbridge (this one was bound for Perth Amboy), the driver ended his run on State & Center Streets when he was really supposed to end at Rector & Washington. Then there was another time (New Brunswick-bound this time) where a driver went South on Rector, turned on to Smith, and back on to High (In the direction like he was going to the mall). I'm like "The hell are you doing?" I thought it was because he was having an argument with this Spanish lady (What they were arguing about, I don't know. It was all in Spanish.) Luckily for me, that was my stop on High St.

See, occurrences/ongoings like we've described in the past 2-3 posts is one reason why I'm not all that fond of private carriers...

They can do w/e they want on a whim & you as a reliant passenger just gotta take it on the chin, even though these are fixed route services being provided...

 

I like this one, one thing about it is there aren't any bus stops along that section of Route 9 (that's currently the only bus-free portion of '9 at all), but that's mainly because there aren't many businesses along the Woodbridge stretch of '9. But it shouldn't hurt your "816" at all.

 

I see it follows the 48's path to Metropark.

Nice call there, but I'd have like 1 or 2 trips use Gill Lane to Metropark during rush hour, kinda like my reroute of the 48 that I posted earlier.

I suppose that could be an option, as the 802 during the rush does serve Green as well.....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Since the 317 discussion on the other thread, and since I have the schedule in front of me, why dont they discontinue the 317 east of Lakewood, and extend the 317 to Philly in the same time. The 830 would be extended to Lakewood from Point Plesant Beach. I would also give the 830 sunday service every 2 hours.

[mfs NJT459]

317 goes to Greyhound Terminal in Philly

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

317 goes to Greyhound Terminal in Philly

I know, Im saying about an Extention to Philly Airport.

[qjtransitmaster]

I know, Im saying about an Extention to Philly Airport.

negative Septa's frequent airportline is directly next to greyhound by way of suburban station. Most philly bound buses are on market street where there is a direct transfer to SEPTA. 317 can't do it. However other lines may be able to do it IF they drop camden from their routes.

[B35 via Church]

Not this 317/830 discussion again..... I'm still waiting for an answer to this question

Anyway:

 

Since the 317 discussion on the other thread, and since I have the schedule in front of me, why dont they discontinue the 317 east of Lakewood, and extend the 317 to Philly in the same time. The 830 would be extended to Lakewood from Point Plesant Beach. I would also give the 830 sunday service every 2 hours.

I know, Im saying about an Extention to Philly Airport.

1] You're not gonna get anymore riders on the 317 b/w [the greyhound terminal & PHL] than you would the current 317 b/w [Lakewood & Asbury Park], so there's not much of a point to truncating the route on one end & extending the route on the other end....

 

2] Providing public bus service b/w downtown philly & PHL is not NJT's problem anyway - Besides, there's already 30 min. rail service b/w downtown philly & PHL....

 

To sum it up, it's not sensical to extend the 830 to Lakewood for the sake of altering the 317 to have it serve PHL....