mark1447 Posted July 12, 2012 Share #1 Posted July 12, 2012 The MTA is re-jiggering schedules for some of its buses that go down Lexington Avenue and up Third Avenue. The transit agency is proposing to increase the M101’s midday service, while decreasing the M102 and M103, starting in September. “We want to make sure service reflects current ridership and operating conditions,” said MTA spokesman Kevin Ortiz, of the schedule shifts, which are often done three or four times a year to respond to shifting straphanger patterns. The M101, which travels between Fort George Avenue in Washington Heights down Lexington Avenue to Astor Place and back up Third Avenue, will see its midday waits decrease by one minute, from 10 to nine minutes, MTA officials said. In the evening, the wait will extend by a minute to eight minutes. The M102, on the other hand, which connects Harlem at West 147th Street to East Sixth Street in the East Village will see its midday wait increase three minutes from 12 to 15 minutes. The M103, whose route stretches from East Harlem’s East 125th Street down to City Hall, will see the same changes made. The M102 will see its evening waits expand by a minute to 10 minutes. The M103’s evening commute will remain the same. Read the rest: http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20120711/upper-east-side/mta-tweak-east-side-bus-service-schedules#ixzz20NFKdbcg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 12, 2012 Share #2 Posted July 12, 2012 They're a few weeks late. It was already mentioned on the committee meeting this past June... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted July 12, 2012 Share #3 Posted July 12, 2012 The M101 increase is probably warranted, but the M103 cut is absurd. That bus already has enough trouble once it gets to Chinatown whatwith bunching, lousy TU maintenance, and traffic. Cutting service? Bad plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted July 12, 2012 Share #4 Posted July 12, 2012 The M101 increase is probably warranted, but the M103 cut is absurd. That bus already has enough trouble once it gets to Chinatown whatwith bunching, lousy TU maintenance, and traffic. Cutting service? Bad plan. Agreed, They should've kept the M103 the same. Cutting the M102 is reasonable, but the 103? cmon son.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanTheTransitMan Posted July 12, 2012 Share #5 Posted July 12, 2012 Really? Cut runs on two routes were ridership is growing, you have to be kidding me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 12, 2012 Share #6 Posted July 12, 2012 Really? Cut runs on two routes were ridership is growing, you have to be kidding me. Ridership has actually been on a steady decline on those routes. Actually, most routes in Manhattan have seen declines in ridership.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 12, 2012 Share #7 Posted July 12, 2012 Ridership has actually been on a steady decline on those routes. Actually, most routes in Manhattan have seen declines in ridership.... You love saying that as if people just suddenly stopped using the local buses in the city just because. They keep cutting the damn service and short turning buses, which turns people off from using them. I've seen some people get off of buses in the city and just hail a cab it has been that bad in some cases with some B/Os purposely dragging along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted July 12, 2012 Share #8 Posted July 12, 2012 Little they can do about that if the schedules have too much running time Via. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noflexdont Posted July 12, 2012 Share #9 Posted July 12, 2012 You love saying that as if people just suddenly stopped using the local buses in the city just because. They keep cutting the damn service and short turning buses, which turns people off from using them. i've seen some people get off of buses in the city and just hail a cab it has been that bad in some cases with some B/Os purposely dragging along. Cant blame the drivers but the paddles that they are following. When i was working at quill on the M14 route they gave me to much time. it was something like 12 minutes from 8th avenue to Union square. I would have to sit at stops for additional minute and a half just so i was not hitting the dispatcher early because i was in fear of getting a violation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limitednyc Posted July 12, 2012 Share #10 Posted July 12, 2012 I believe that it's time for another full look at the branches of this corridor especially the 101 becasue of its lenth. i believe it time to do a o/d servay to see how meny riders arccually ride from north of ams ave /125st to southe of lex/125. i think its time create a ams ave route for n of 125 goes at least to 110street, mabe the 101 should go to 125st pair. You have the M100 to serve the corridor from ams ave to the east side, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted July 12, 2012 Share #11 Posted July 12, 2012 I have taken M103 many times and waited for M103 bus feels like every 30 minutes. Maybe this is reason why M101/M102/M103 got Schelppie Award from Straphangers Campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 12, 2012 Share #12 Posted July 12, 2012 Little they can do about that if the schedules have too much running time Via. Nah I wasn't referring to the Lexington Avenue routes because I don't think that's an issue. A lot of buses (M101, M102 & M103) get short turned at the last minute on Lex. and so if you're trying to go below 23rd street, you may just give up after seeing several buses come along Lex only to be told that they're now only going to 23rd street when they were scheduled to go down to 8th street. I was speaking in general terms about why ridership is dropping and talking about what some B/Os do. They don't have too much time in some instances. Some B/Os just drag along and that can be frustrating as a passenger. That was my point. I was thinking back to an incident on the M1 where this one driver does things to be as annoying as possible... Not pulling into the stop when he knows a ton of seniors are getting on and there are no cars nearby stopping him from doing so and driving as slowly as possible and hitting every light. Now that's a route that I use regularly and most drivers don't drag like that, so in some instances it is a legitimate issue because you'll notice most if not almost all B/Os having the problem. I've been riding buses for over 20 years now, so it can be obvious when you've got a guy trying to be difficult and one who is legitimately having problems trying to not come early. Cant blame the drivers but the paddles that they are following. When i was working at quill on the M14 route they gave me to much time. it was something like 12 minutes from 8th avenue to Union square. I would have to sit at stops for additional minute and a half just so i was not hitting the dispatcher early because i was in fear of getting a violation. Now the M14 I'll agree is a mess... The problem is the traffic along 14th can be unpredictable which is one reason why I often see packs of M14s in 3s and 4s. The run time they gave you may be on average what it takes some B/Os and I wouldn't be surprised either. I usually use the M14 for short distances (sometimes for the exact distance that you've mentioned or from 9th Avenue over by the Chelsea market) and I can see it taking 12 minutes from 8th to Union Square when the traffic is bad or there are hoards of folks waiting for the M14. I honestly would rather a bus be a bit late than to come really early because 9 times out of 10 when that guy is running hot, the next guy behind him is going to get slammed with all of the folks that missed his bus and there is a ripple effect from that. That one bus can make several buses extremely late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted July 12, 2012 Share #13 Posted July 12, 2012 One time when I was at City Hall after Shark Protest meet, I was either waiting for M9 or M22 to take me to Catherine, so M9 came first. and this nice Quill male b/o waited until elderly with cane who was trying her best to make to it bus, and this kind driver waiting for her, even thought he knew he was late. She was just few minutes away from the bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDTA Posted July 12, 2012 Share #14 Posted July 12, 2012 Not to get of topic, but can a B/O be early along a certian part of the route, is he knows he is going to be late down the road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 12, 2012 Share #15 Posted July 12, 2012 Not to get of topic, but can a B/O be early along a certian part of the route, is he knows he is going to be late down the road? I don't know if you're asking or what but technically they should not be early at any point of the route because there is the risk of leaving passengers behind, defeating the whole purpose of having that run in the first place. When I would ride with my uncle, he was always careful of this because he said there is nothing that dispatch hates more than a hot bus, though that seems to vary from depot to depot based on my own personal experience. If everyone that should've been on that early bus is now forced to wait for the next bus then that means the next bus will probably be overcrowded and late in most cases, which can have a chain effect on down the line. Now do some drivers come early along parts of the route? Sure, it does happen and I don't think it is a big deal because I understand that sometimes they have to be early at certain points in order to stay on time later on down the line or may run a few minutes early here and there due to traffic patterns, BUT there is early and there is TOO early. I can see a few minutes early and I do mean a few, but anything over 5 minutes early is a no no IMO and if I see it happen and I miss the bus or have to run like I did last night for that BxM2 I will report it. I should not have to run for a bus when I'm arriving to the stop over 5 minutes early. I've seen B/Os arrive a good 10 minutes early and it pisses me to the core because nine times out of ten that next bus that comes (in my case usually an express bus) is crowded and LATE and I'm stuck waiting for the next one well over half an hour, even if the next one is scheduled to arrive in 30 minutes because of what I mentioned earlier. So in sum, I get annoyed because the way I see it, I am getting to my destination late and being forced to ride a packed bus simply because the previous guy decided to come really early. This sort of thing can be really annoying because if you get a route that gets increased service the passengers don't benefit from it because if one guy comes early, then the next guy comes late and so on and so forth, you've got uneven loading in most cases and what I found on routes like the X10 was that the 20 minute bump up in frequencies still meant that folks were waiting 40 minutes for a bus like the old schedule, so more buses running but passengers are still waiting the same amount of time or longer and still on overcrowded buses unless they get lucky and get the hot ones (early ones). Then of course they'll be on emptier buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDTA Posted July 12, 2012 Share #16 Posted July 12, 2012 That's what I mean. If they were say... 5 Minutes early, but they knew in about a mile, their bus would be stuck in stop and go traffic, is that OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 12, 2012 Share #17 Posted July 12, 2012 That's what I mean. If they were say... 5 Minutes early, but they knew in about a mile, their bus would be stuck in stop and go traffic, is that OK? Technically no, but the veteran B/Os usually are good at dealing with those sorts of things. For the guys that arne't familiar with the route and use the run sheet, the run sheet may often times have limited information and just may say that you need to be at "X" stop at "X" time and at another point at "X" time but not specify where you should be in between, which is dump IMO. I've seen the run sheet for the BxM18 for example it could be far more detailed to help them, especially for fillers. However, as you do the runs over time you usually get a feel for loading patterns, traffic and so on. Sometimes things come up that are unexpected, but there are some B/Os out of Yonkers for example that are very good with managing the run time between stops and maneuvering the buses so as not to get caught up in traffic. This morning for example I had this chick that I've had before on the BxM2 and BxM18. It took me almost an hour and a half to get from 232nd and Henry Hudson Parkway to 50th & 7th. Now some drivers can stay on time during the pick up portion and still manage to arrive early during the drop-off portion. She on the other hand isn't as good because she sticks with the standard route rather than taking the short cuts that B/Os on the Riverdale express buses are allowed to take, so that means instead of going down through Inwood and taking the Harlem River Drive, she takes the Major Deegan which is usually backed up during that time of the morning, costing us a good 15 - 20 minutes right there. I had a B/O the other night who I've had before (cool Black guy) and he's quick. He comes late for the pick up but not ridiculously late, but he does so to ensure he picks up everybody and then he uses the Harlem River Drive and he gets up to Riverdale early. In fact I thanked him for doing that because anyone with common sense knows that they're repaving the Major Deegan currently and so late at night you can get stuck like we did last Sunday. I still couldn't believe a 40 minute trip took over two hours because the B/O took the Major Deegan instead of Harlem River Drive while they were repaving sections of it. Some drivers are just more keen on things than others and I prefer to get the savvy veterans for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share #18 Posted July 12, 2012 I have taken M103 many times and waited for M103 bus feels like every 30 minutes. Maybe this is reason why M101/M102/M103 got Schelppie Award from Straphangers Campaign. Yep, agreed. Waiting time right now already feels worst. Its even worst they don't have M102/M103 GUIDE - A - RIDE timetables up, except the M101. Plus, even with adding more M101, there are still chances the M101 may get stuck in traffic, especially on 125th and on Lexington. I think everything should remain the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted July 12, 2012 Share #19 Posted July 12, 2012 Lots of NYC Local Bus stops are now getting Guide-A-Ride. For example, 5th Av/80th St bus stop only show STRIP MAP of spefic bus route and now it shows schedule for M1, M2, M3, M4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 12, 2012 Share #20 Posted July 12, 2012 Yep, agreed. Waiting time right now already feels worst. Its even worst they don't have M102/M103 GUIDE - A - RIDE timetables up, except the M101. Plus, even with adding more M101, there are still chances the M101 may get stuck in traffic, especially on 125th and on Lexington. I think everything should remain the same. I think they want more folks using the M101 because they are limited stop buses. I personally don't mind it since I always use the M101 but it sucks for the other folks who don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 12, 2012 Share #21 Posted July 12, 2012 The M101’s capacity during the midday commute is presently 109 percent, Ortiz said, noting the increased service is expected to bring that down to 93 percent. The M102 is at 51 percent capacity and the M103 is at 43 percent capacity during midday, he noted. This is because the masses gun for LTD service (and are riding past harlem), the 102 bunches, and the 103 runs like crap (buses are few & far between)...... Those stats aren't telling me much more than that..... If you ask me, there should be a balance between 102's & 103's.... the usage the 102 sees north of 116th is no more important than the usage the 103 obtains south of cooper union..... The M101 increase is probably warranted, but the M103 cut is absurd. That bus already has enough trouble once it gets to Chinatown what with bunching, lousy TU maintenance, and traffic. Cutting service? Bad plan. Agreed, They should've kept the M103 the same. Cutting the M102 is reasonable, but the 103? cmon son.... Agree with the both of you.... Since I've been taking the 103 between hobby shops (@ Cait, yeah, I'm still tryna get money for my old YGO cards from Max's & all the other YGO fiends that frequent the place), it's the pits waiting for that bus at lex/28th st to have to see 3 (or even 4!) 101's & 2 or 3 102's before a damn 103 shows...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted July 12, 2012 Share #22 Posted July 12, 2012 This is because the masses gun for LTD service (and are riding past harlem), the 102 bunches, and the 103 runs like crap (buses are few & far between)...... Those stats aren't telling me much more than that..... If you ask me, there should be a balance between 102's & 103's.... the usage the 102 sees north of 116th is no more important than the usage the 103 obtains south of cooper union..... Agree with the both of you.... Since I've been taking the 103 between hobby shops (@ Cait, yeah, I'm still tryna get money for my old YGO cards from Max's & all the other YGO fiends that frequent the place), it's the pits waiting for that bus at lex/28th st to have to see 3 (or even 4!) 101's & 2 or 3 102's before a damn 103 shows...... Good luck lol. But yeah, they should've INCREASED M103 service...or at least send a couple of 101s down there. Cutting runs on the m103 is the absolute worst idea they could come up with because that line outside of the East Village and points North gets beat up by... 1. Broome Street Traffic (leads to the Holland Tunnel) 2. Houston Street Traffic 3. Canal Street Traffic (Manhattan Bridge & Holland Tunnel traffic) 4. Bowery Traffic (A mix of all things in all directions) 5. Delancey/Kenmare Street Traffic (Williamsburg Bridge traffic) And mind you, this is all within BLOCKS from each other!! After passing these 4 points, the line doesnt get all that bad up until Midtown where all 3 lines pretty much suffer the same fate. I hope this is just a summer thing and not a full-time change because this is just bad on their part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 12, 2012 Share #23 Posted July 12, 2012 Good luck lol. But yeah, they should've INCREASED M103 service...or at least send a couple of 101s down there. Cutting runs on the m103 is the absolute worst idea they could come up with because that line outside of the East Village and points North gets beat up by... 1. Broome Street Traffic (leads to the Holland Tunnel) 2. Houston Street Traffic 3. Canal Street Traffic (Manhattan Bridge & Holland Tunnel traffic) 4. Bowery Traffic (A mix of all things in all directions) 5. Delancey/Kenmare Street Traffic (Williamsburg Bridge traffic) And mind you, this is all within BLOCKS from each other!! After passing these 4 points, the line doesnt get all that bad up until Midtown where all 3 lines pretty much suffer the same fate. I hope this is just a summer thing and not a full-time change because this is just bad on their part. I'm gonna need it.... every bit of it.... YGO players are the most frugal bunch of people I've ever had to come upon.... Anyway, yeah, the choke points of the 103 is basically anything south of Houston.... makes you wanna pull your hair out or punch a wall at times riding along Bowery..... If I'm heading from chinatown toward the other hobby shop near madison sq park while riding the 103, when we reach houston, I feel as if I'm good to go... much less to worry about, since that very traffic you pinpointed is no longer a factor...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 12, 2012 Share #24 Posted July 12, 2012 You love saying that as if people just suddenly stopped using the local buses in the city just because. They keep cutting the damn service and short turning buses, which turns people off from using them. I've seen some people get off of buses in the city and just hail a cab it has been that bad in some cases with some B/Os purposely dragging along. I'm not saying it "as if" anything. I'm stating a fact that ridership has decreased. I'm not saying that it's a good thing, or going into details as to why that is the case, but I'm stating that as a fact. I honestly would rather a bus be a bit late than to come really early because 9 times out of 10 when that guy is running hot, the next guy behind him is going to get slammed with all of the folks that missed his bus and there is a ripple effect from that. That one bus can make several buses extremely late. ...which is why certain routes should have decreased runtimes.... Not to get of topic, but can a B/O be early along a certian part of the route, is he knows he is going to be late down the road? Technically, no, but some drivers do that anyway. I guess it's a matter of knowing where the dispatchers generally are, or being friendly with them or whatever. Plus, it depends how frequently the route runs. If it runs every 5 minutes, they might not bother you, but if it runs every 20 minutes, then it's a problem. After passing these 4 points, the line doesnt get all that bad up until Midtown where all 3 lines pretty much suffer the same fate. I hope this is just a summer thing and not a full-time change because this is just bad on their part. I think it's a permenant thing, or at least until the next time to check the routes goes. I mean, with the percentage of the loading guidelines (they claim, because like I said, they're sloppy with their numbers) those buses aren't coming back anytime soon.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJC Posted July 13, 2012 Share #25 Posted July 13, 2012 The M101 increase is probably warranted, but the M103 cut is absurd. That bus already has enough trouble once it gets to Chinatown whatwith bunching, lousy TU maintenance, and traffic. Cutting service? Bad plan. This is basic scheduling according to demand. If checks reveal that a bus line is overcrowded at the peak load point, then service is increased. (That's what's happening to the M101.) If checks reveal that a bus line carries well-below-guideline loads at the peak load point, then service is reduced. (That's what's happening to the M102 and M103.) Reducing service when there's too much is the flip side of increasing service when there isn't enough. The two go hand in hand. As Dan Garodnick says at the end of the article, "They happen every year, and usually without complaint." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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