Planned Subway Service Changes

[Wallyhorse]

29 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

One thing I never understood is why Track M at Marcy Avenue does not feed directly into the bridge.

Same here.  Connect it to the Bridge, and with two island platforms it would allow Marcy when needed to be a terminal both ways.  

[Chris89292]

63rd Street track rehabilitation 

The following service changes will be in effect through the first quarter of 2024: 

• Beginning Monday, August 28, service will be rerouted via the line in both directions between 47-50 Sts-Rockefeller Center and Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Av.   
• Weekday service will be suspended between 47-50 Sts-Rockefeller Ctr and Forest Hills-71 Av. Service will operate between Middle Village-Metropolitan Av and 57 St/6 Av in Manhattan only between 6 a.m. and 9 p.m.   
• Nights between 9 p.m. and 6 a.m. and weekends, the will operate its normal service between Metropolitan Av and Essex St or Myrtle Av, and the 57 St/6 Av station will be closed. Due to operational constraints,   service will operate at reduced frequencies.    
• Weekdays and weekends between 5 a.m. and 11:59 p.m., shuttle trains will operate between Lexington Av/63 St and 21 St-Queensbridge, and free Q95 shuttle buses will operate between the 21 St-Queensbridge and Queens Plaza stations.    
• Overnights between midnight and 5 a.m., shuttle train service is suspended and free Q94 shuttle buses will connect the Roosevelt Island, 21 St-Queensbridge, and Queens Plaza stations.  

 

[Lawrence St]

6 minutes ago, Chris89292 said:

63rd Street track rehabilitation 

The following service changes will be in effect through the first quarter of 2024: 

• Beginning Monday, August 28, service will be rerouted via the line in both directions between 47-50 Sts-Rockefeller Center and Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Av.   
• Weekday service will be suspended between 47-50 Sts-Rockefeller Ctr and Forest Hills-71 Av. Service will operate between Middle Village-Metropolitan Av and 57 St/6 Av in Manhattan only between 6 a.m. and 9 p.m.   
• Nights between 9 p.m. and 6 a.m. and weekends, the will operate its normal service between Metropolitan Av and Essex St or Myrtle Av, and the 57 St/6 Av station will be closed. Due to operational constraints,   service will operate at reduced frequencies.    
• Weekdays and weekends between 5 a.m. and 11:59 p.m., shuttle trains will operate between Lexington Av/63 St and 21 St-Queensbridge, and free Q95 shuttle buses will operate between the 21 St-Queensbridge and Queens Plaza stations.    
• Overnights between midnight and 5 a.m., shuttle train service is suspended and free Q94 shuttle buses will connect the Roosevelt Island, 21 St-Queensbridge, and Queens Plaza stations.  

 

No no no! This is not the way to do it.

Quote

Weekdays and weekends between 5 a.m. and 11:59 p.m., 63rd St  shuttle trains will operate between Lexington Av/63 St and 21 St-Queensbridge, and free Q95 shuttle buses will operate between the 21 St-Queensbridge and Queens Plaza stations.

Weekday service will be suspended between 47-50 Sts-Rockefeller Ctr and Forest Hills-71 Av. Service will operate between Middle Village-Metropolitan Av and 57 St/6 Av in Manhattan only between 6 a.m. and 11 p.m.  (Eliminating the need for Essex St short turns).

Weekends, service will operate to 57th St/6th Ave during the time slots for when the  is suppose to end at Essex St.

This is how you do it.

[Wallyhorse]

Agree on the  but do they have enough operators to do that?

You could also do it where from 11:00 PM Friday until 5:00 AM Monday and overnights from 11:00 PM-5:00 AM, an  runs between 47-50 and 57th-6th as what USED to be done when the  did that in the '80s (such can use the "uptown express" track at 47-50 to terminate).  This keeps 57th/6th open at all times and you likely would only need one train for the service with one other train in place to be a backup.  

I would then extend the shuttles to West 4th nights and weekends (including the period the would normally terminate at Myrtle-Broadway, using the express tunnel to switch tracks), have the  stop at 14th and 23rd on nights/weekends.  This allows those on the to be able to transfer to/from the 8th Avenue line there. 

[darkstar8983]

10 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

Agree on the  but do they have enough operators to do that?

You could also do it where from 11:00 PM Friday until 5:00 AM Monday and overnights from 11:00 PM-5:00 AM, an  runs between 47-50 and 57th-6th as what USED to be done when the  did that in the '80s (such can use the "uptown express" track at 47-50 to terminate).  This keeps 57th/6th open at all times and you likely would only need one train for the service with one other train in place to be a backup.  

I would then extend the shuttles to West 4th nights and weekends (including the period the would normally terminate at Myrtle-Broadway, using the express tunnel to switch tracks), have the  stop at 14th and 23rd on nights/weekends.  This allows those on the to be able to transfer to/from the 8th Avenue line there. 

I think they should have enough - in face there will be a temporary surplus since you will need fewer  crews, and any reductions to  crews are offset by increases to  crews

[Kamen Rider]

Running it to 57/7th requires full length trains, which requires conductors enough of us to be available on the weekends to make service. 

[Wallyhorse]

3 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

Running it to 57/7th requires full length trains, which requires conductors enough of us to be available on the weekends to make service. 

That's why nights and weekends during this I'd just have an between 47-50 and 57 that would require ONE four/five-car train plus a backup that probably could be OPTO (though with T/Os on each end to allow trains to quickly leave 47-50 with such coming in on the uptown express track.  This would just usually be the one train operating on the uptown track between the two stations. 

[darkstar8983]

On 7/28/2023 at 3:39 PM, Chris89292 said:

63rd Street track rehabilitation 

The following service changes will be in effect through the first quarter of 2024: 

• Beginning Monday, August 28, service will be rerouted via the line in both directions between 47-50 Sts-Rockefeller Center and Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Av.   
• Weekday service will be suspended between 47-50 Sts-Rockefeller Ctr and Forest Hills-71 Av. Service will operate between Middle Village-Metropolitan Av and 57 St/6 Av in Manhattan only between 6 a.m. and 9 p.m.   
• Nights between 9 p.m. and 6 a.m. and weekends, the will operate its normal service between Metropolitan Av and Essex St or Myrtle Av, and the 57 St/6 Av station will be closed. Due to operational constraints,   service will operate at reduced frequencies.    
• Weekdays and weekends between 5 a.m. and 11:59 p.m., shuttle trains will operate between Lexington Av/63 St and 21 St-Queensbridge, and free Q95 shuttle buses will operate between the 21 St-Queensbridge and Queens Plaza stations.    
• Overnights between midnight and 5 a.m., shuttle train service is suspended and free Q94 shuttle buses will connect the Roosevelt Island, 21 St-Queensbridge, and Queens Plaza stations.  

 

Is this a legitimate start date, or is it speculative?

[Kamen Rider]

37 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

Is this a legitimate start date, or is it speculative?

https://new.mta.info/article/service-changes-f-and-m-lines-starting-august-28

[Kamen Rider]

4 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

That's why nights and weekends during this I'd just have an between 47-50 and 57 that would require ONE four/five-car train plus a backup that probably could be OPTO (though with T/Os on each end to allow trains to quickly leave 47-50 with such coming in on the uptown express track.  This would just usually be the one train operating on the uptown track between the two stations. 

Except you are forgetting one thing... you don't just need 2 TOs for this gig. For every train you use, you need at least one extra person. Even on that short a trip.

during the AM tour, the 42nd street shuttle cycles through 6 train operators. Two are always on each train, so four, and the other two are resting. 

Then you'd need a dispatcher. So, we're already up to four people.

Then you'd need platform staff, at both stations. And since when we do that, we always work in ATLEAST pairs, two RTO personnel walking the platforms, we're now up to 8 people...

Oh, and now we also need a station agent. There's at least 9 people. 

They're already closing Roosvelt Island and Queensbridge overnight for this, and you want to go through all this for the sake of one stop, the 106th busiest station? 

 

See, one of the issues you need to work on is you only care about benefits... you never consider the costs.

 

 

[Wallyhorse]

They used to do THIS EXACT SHUTTLE on the in the overnights in the 1980's, as well as the one from 36th-Coney Island.   I would pay the extra to have this shuttle AND the one between 63rd and 21st-Queensbridge in the overnight running.    

[Kamen Rider]

Just because “they used to do it”… 

 

DOESN’T MEAN IT WAS A GOOD IDEA.

 

They got rid of the B shuttle by making those changes to south Brooklyn after the bridge tropes for the same reason, they realized how stupid it was.

[Wallyhorse]

7 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

Just because “they used to do it”… 

DOESN’T MEAN IT WAS A GOOD IDEA.

They got rid of the B shuttle by making those changes to south Brooklyn after the bridge tropes for the same reason, they realized how stupid it was.

This is about making it as convenient for passengers as realistically possible.

If it means overnights and weekends there is a one-stop  between 47-50 and 57 and another between 63rd-Lex and 21st-Queensbridge also operating 24/7, so be it.  That is how I would handle it, especially making sure those on Roosevelt Island (which is the island's ONLY train stop) 24/7 service.  

[Lil 57]

Why doesn’t the  shift the departure times of the  during the weekend when the train is single tracking? The southbound train is gonna be delayed 10-15 minutes due to it waiting for the northbound train to pass so just say that the train will leave 10-15 minutes later instead of sitting at a station for 10-15 minutes. They shift the times for weekday trains so it doesn’t make any sense to me.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Lil 57

[JustTheSIR]

17 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

Why doesn’t the  shift the departure times of the  during the weekend when the train is single tracking? The southbound train is gonna be delayed 10-15 minutes due to it waiting for the northbound train to pass so just say that the train will leave 10-15 minutes later instead of sitting at a station for 10-15 minutes. They shift the times for weekday trains so it doesn’t make any sense to me.

Where does this happen, St George? 

[Lil 57]

6 minutes ago, JustTheSIR said:

Where does this happen, St George? 

Depends on where track work is happening. Yesterday, we sat at Dongan Hills for a good 10 minutes to wait for the Northbound Train to clear the track since single tracking was in effect between Grant City and Great Kills.

[Lawrence St]

They really need to rethink this  /  service change for this weekend. Instead of having two ‘s running around and confusing people, do this:

No  service running.

 trains run between Wakefield & Flatbush Ave, all times.

 trains are running between East 180th St & Dyre Ave.

 trains run between New Lots Ave & 96th St and via the  to/from 137th St-City College.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 7/29/2023 at 4:43 PM, darkstar8983 said:

Is this a legitimate start date, or is it speculative?

It’s legitimate.

[Kamen Rider]

4 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

They really need to rethink this  /  service change for this weekend. Instead of having two ‘s running around and confusing people, do this:

No  service running.

 trains run between Wakefield & Flatbush Ave, all times.

 trains are running between East 180th St & Dyre Ave.

 trains run between New Lots Ave & 96th St and via the  to/from 137th St-City College.

So then what runs overnights? Do you shut down the Clark Street tube? Do you send the 3 to new lots all night? What about the 4?
 

Another reason for doing it the way it was done? Crew assignments.

on a normal night, there are five crews working the midnight tour on the 3. Meanwhile there are anywhere from 14 to 18 overnight 2 train crews depending on the day of the week. 
 

and on top of this, no matter what you do, we have to people crew the 42nd st shuttle.

[Jemorie]

On 7/28/2023 at 3:47 PM, Lawrence St said:

No no no! This is not the way to do it.

This is how you do it.

Sorry for the late reply, but just want to point out that the  under your proposal cannot operate to/from 57-6 after 9 p.m. on weekdays and all weekend because you have to keep in mind the  are often rerouted via 6 Av between Jay St and W 4 St, and still often continues to happen to this day.

Every trunk line in the system on weekends in particular only require 3 different routes due to ongoing flagging and GOs.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Jemorie

[nightmare402]

20 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

They really need to rethink this  /  service change for this weekend. Instead of having two ‘s running around and confusing people, do this:

No  service running.

 trains run between Wakefield & Flatbush Ave, all times.

 trains are running between East 180th St & Dyre Ave.

 trains run between New Lots Ave & 96th St and via the  to/from 137th St-City College.

i would say split the 2 and run 5 normal

[Wallyhorse]

4 hours ago, Jemorie said:

Sorry for the late reply, but just want to point out that the  under your proposal cannot operate to/from 57-6 after 9 p.m. on weekdays and all weekend because you have to keep in mind the  are often rerouted via 6 Av between Jay St and W 4 St, and still often continues to happen to this day.

Every trunk line in the system on weekends in particular only require 3 different routes due to ongoing flagging and GOs.

And one reason nights and weekend, I revive the old late-night  shuttle by having that run between 47-50 and 57th using the uptown track.  That solves that issue for those who need 57/6th. 

[Lawrence St]

38 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

And one reason nights and weekend, I revive the old late-night  shuttle by having that run between 47-50 and 57th using the uptown track.  That solves that issue for those who need 57/6th. 

Yes let’s spend extra money on a one stop shuttle where there’s 57th St-7th Ave & 56th St around the corner…

[Kamen Rider]

1 hour ago, Wallyhorse said:

And one reason nights and weekend, I revive the old late-night  shuttle by having that run between 47-50 and 57th using the uptown track.  That solves that issue for those who need 57/6th. 

you know what also solves the issue...

 

WALKING!

 

This is not 1980s NYC anymore. people are not afraid of Manhattan after sunset anymore.

[darkstar8983]

3 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

you know what also solves the issue...

 

WALKING!

 

This is not 1980s NYC anymore. people are not afraid of Manhattan after sunset anymore.

😂😂😂😂 WALKING.

But yeah it’s a shame that the  can’t run past 9PM because of all these reroutes that have to use 6 Av or in case the  have to run via 8 Av or Broadway. The  at least would have a stable terminal when there is a GO suspending the  between Manhattan and Brooklyn and wouldn’t have to interfere with the .

Due to the route shortening, expect the  to become much more reliable despite its rush hour frequency reduction, since it doesn’t need to merge with the , and hopefully, the 53 St tunnel won’t be subjected to slowdowns since the expresses have already merged and the  won’t be blocked off by merging  trains