Planned Subway Service Changes

[darkstar8983]

8 minutes ago, Kamen Rider said:

Because of what we call “Piggybacking”, other work is being done.

 

also with above ground winter storm shutdowns, we don’t always turn the trains around there, many do continue outside.
 

that’s just where we kick everyone off.

Exactly:

1. Extra work can be done in the Steinway St tunnels or along 42 St and at Hudson Yards without needing to dedicating additional separate weekend GOs for it.

2. For winter storm shutdowns, the idea is to prevent a) Trains getting stuck between stations and losing power  and b) people waiting on platforms in hazardous conditions

If trains are discharged at the "last possible underground station", then trains have a lower likelihood of getting stuck with passengers and losing power. One thing i dont understand though why some sections of track even though they're fully underground, cannot be served by the subway, but I guess it has to do with the layout of the outdoor structure past that point:

Example:

 trains can run from 191 St to South Ferry, while bypassing 125 St

 trains can run from 148 St to Utica Av, yet having to be outside while passing between 148 St and 145 St

 trains only run from 207 St to Euclid Av, not serving Grant Av, despite being an underground station

 trains only running from 205 St to Broadway-Lafayette St, not serving Grand St, the Manhattan Bridge, Atlantic Av-Barclays Center, or stations along 4 Av to at least 36 St

 trains only running from 179 St to Jay St-MetroTech, not serving Bergen St, Carroll St, 7 Av, 15 St-Prospect Park, Fort Hamilton Parkway, or Church Av. Yes I understand that bypassing Smith 9 St and 4 Av-9 St is necessary, but could this be because of the fact that the the Gowanus Section of the line is rested on a track bed rather than an EL structure despite being outdoors? Same explanation goes for the  

 trains running via local/Lower Manhattan between Lexington Av-59 St and 59 St/4 Av, not running via the Manhattan Bridge

 trains only running in Manhattan from 96 St/2 Av to Canal St, instead of running to Prospect Park via Brighton (not serving DeKalb Av, Atlantic Av-Barclays Center, 7 Av, or Prospect Park).

 

[Wallyhorse]

7 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

If they want JFK, take the E…

Obviously, not all of it is JFK.  It's also the stations railroad south of Broadway Junction before Howard Beach and obviously the stations on the Lefferts line as well.

The point is, the can run to Broadway Junction on the .

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

On 10/27/2023 at 5:52 PM, Lawrence St said:

I'm lost, why is the running on Broadway in the first place? If it's to provide service along 59th St, that's a very stupid idea. 

This would have been a non-issue if the  to Forest Hills idea went through as initially floated around. 

I don't know why at night they don't just run the  on its daytime route between Forest Hills and Bay Ridge, and to/from Jamaica Center. I think at that point, the amount of sets needed would be similar to existing  and  overnight requirements. Also Queens has at least ONE direct connection from areas of Lower Manhattan and even Midtown at night (plus the direct connection to/from JFK). 

7 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Exactly:

1. Extra work can be done in the Steinway St tunnels or along 42 St and at Hudson Yards without needing to dedicating additional separate weekend GOs for it.

2. For winter storm shutdowns, the idea is to prevent a) Trains getting stuck between stations and losing power  and b) people waiting on platforms in hazardous conditions

If trains are discharged at the "last possible underground station", then trains have a lower likelihood of getting stuck with passengers and losing power. One thing i dont understand though why some sections of track even though they're fully underground, cannot be served by the subway, but I guess it has to do with the layout of the outdoor structure past that point:

Example:

 trains can run from 191 St to South Ferry, while bypassing 125 St

 trains can run from 148 St to Utica Av, yet having to be outside while passing between 148 St and 145 St

 trains only run from 207 St to Euclid Av, not serving Grant Av, despite being an underground station

 trains only running from 205 St to Broadway-Lafayette St, not serving Grand St, the Manhattan Bridge, Atlantic Av-Barclays Center, or stations along 4 Av to at least 36 St

 trains only running from 179 St to Jay St-MetroTech, not serving Bergen St, Carroll St, 7 Av, 15 St-Prospect Park, Fort Hamilton Parkway, or Church Av. Yes I understand that bypassing Smith 9 St and 4 Av-9 St is necessary, but could this be because of the fact that the the Gowanus Section of the line is rested on a track bed rather than an EL structure despite being outdoors? Same explanation goes for the  

 trains running via local/Lower Manhattan between Lexington Av-59 St and 59 St/4 Av, not running via the Manhattan Bridge

 trains only running in Manhattan from 96 St/2 Av to Canal St, instead of running to Prospect Park via Brighton (not serving DeKalb Av, Atlantic Av-Barclays Center, 7 Av, or Prospect Park).

 

Well for the winter service plan, it is last station possible for a reason, not just simply last underground station. Many of these segments cannot be service under whatever headways are in effect because it would require single-tracking for a distance which makes it impossible to keep the headway. On top of that, certain spots will also not available due to train storage. 

Regarding the Manhattan Bridge, it's a long segment which is not underground, simple as that. Tracks and signals are exposed to the elements and trains going through would be at the mercy of how well the tracks and signals work. It is a large stretch too, and should anything happen there it makes it much more difficult to deal with because of the outdoor conditions.

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Kamen Rider]

3 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

This would have been a non-issue if the  to Forest Hills idea went through as initially floated around. 

I don't know why at night they don't just run the  on its daytime route between Forest Hills and Bay Ridge, and to/from Jamaica Center. I think at that point, the amount of sets needed would be similar to existing  and  overnight requirements. Also Queens has at least ONE direct connection from areas of Lower Manhattan and even Midtown at night (plus the direct connection to/from JFK).

Simple answer, QBL CBTC East arrived and dumped a box of monkey wrench’s on the corridor.

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

Some significant service changes are coming for the month on January during the weekends in Queens:

No  between 74 St-Broadway, Queens and 34 St-Hudson Yards, Manhattan.

Jan 6 - 29, Sat 12:01 AM to Mon 4:00 AM

runs in Queens between Main St and 74 St-Broadway, the last stop (every 8 minutes days/evenings). 

Free shuttle buses run along three routes:

1. Q107 Between 74 St-Broadway and Queens Plaza, making local  stops.

2. Q93 between Queens Plaza and Vernon Blvd-Jackson Av.

3. Q92 overnight in Manhattan between Times Sq-42 St and 34 St-Hudson Yards.

42 Street Shuttle will run overnight. 

LIRR will accommodate NYCT customers traveling between Queens and Manhattan for no additional cost at Flushing, Mets-Willets Point, Woodside, Grand Central, and Penn Station. Click here to check LIRR service and schedules.

During the same weekends,  and  Trains are running local in Queens, with  and Trains getting a service boost during those weekends. Oddly enough,  and  Trains are only running express on Saturday and Sunday for only two hours (10 AM to 12 PM).

 Trains will also see significant service disruptions during the same window:

No between 39 Av-Dutch Kills, Queens and 57 St-7 Av, Manhattan

Jan 6 - 29, Sat 12:01 AM to Mon 4:00 AM

operates in two sections (every 12 minutes days/evenings):

1. Shuttle train between Ditmars Blvd and 39 Av-Dutch Kills

2. Between Coney Island and 57 St-7 Av, and via the  to/from 96 St

Free Q108 shuttle buses run between 39 Av-Dutch Kills and Queens Plaza.

Overnight runs via the  between Queens Plaza and 34 St-Herald Sq, skipping 49 St in both directions.

 

https://new.mta.info/alerts?selectedRoutes=MTASBWY%3A7%2CMTASBWY%3AN%2CMTASBWY%3AE%2CMTASBWY%3AF%2CMTASBWY%3AR&selectedDate=01%2F06%2F2024

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

36 minutes ago, Kingsbridgeviewer382 said:

During the same weekends,  and  Trains are running local in Queens, with  and Trains getting a service boost during those weekends. Oddly enough,  and  Trains are only running express on Saturday and Sunday for only two hours (10 AM to 12 PM).

 

https://new.mta.info/alerts?selectedRoutes=MTASBWY%3A7%2CMTASBWY%3AN%2CMTASBWY%3AE%2CMTASBWY%3AF%2CMTASBWY%3AR&selectedDate=01%2F06%2F2024

I think that means that the  and  will operate express during those hours as they normally do during all other hours. They're currently scheduled to be local during these hours because of the trackwork on the QBL. If they were running local all weekend they would post that. 

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

34 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I think that means that the  and  will operate express during those hours as they normally do during all other hours. They're currently scheduled to be local during these hours because of the trackwork on the QBL. If they were running local all weekend they would post that. 

The service change in question is worded as such:

In Queens, midday local  service runs express in both directions between Forest Hills-71 Av and Queens Plaza

Jan 6 - Jan 28, Sat and Sun, 10:00 AM to 12:00 PM

What's happening?

We're making accessibility improvements

Looks like it will be local all day on the weekends, except during the midday.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

31 minutes ago, Kingsbridgeviewer382 said:

The service change in question is worded as such:

In Queens, midday local  service runs express in both directions between Forest Hills-71 Av and Queens Plaza

Jan 6 - Jan 28, Sat and Sun, 10:00 AM to 12:00 PM

What's happening?

We're making accessibility improvements

Looks like it will be local all day on the weekends, except during the midday.

 and  service is already scheduled to run local in Queens daily between those hours. It's a regular service pattern while the existing construction is ongoing which is built in to the timetables, hence why it specifically mentions "midday local  service". The interpretation I get from that is that they won't be needing to send the trains local. They've been doing this every so often too, this is the one time though where they happen to mention it ahead of time. I would be more inclined to agree if there was a note within service change notice indicating that  and  service is running local for the rest of the weekend. However that's not the case, and I do not see any separate notice for it either. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Kamen Rider]

Yeah, the current public timetables have the midday work train access period built in, which I have had to explain multiple times to people in the same conversation. 
 

for this project they’re suspending it and allowing them to run express all day.

[Chris89292]

Great news for  riders, The Station renewal project will be finished at the Jamaica bound platform

 Manhattan-bound skips 75 St-Elderts Ln   

Beginning Jan 15, Monday 5 AM until June 2024

Use nearby Cypress Hills or 85 St-Forest Pkwy stations.

Additional travel alternatives:

For service to this station, take the or to Cypress Hills and transfer to a Jamaica Center-bound or     

For service from this station, take the or to 85 St-Forest Pkwy and transfer to a Manhattan-bound or .    

Consider the Q56 bus making stops along Jamaica Ave.

Note: Jamaica Center-bound platform at this station will reopen before the Manhattan-bound platform closes.

What's happening?

We're making station improvements

[slantfan4281]

11 hours ago, Chris89292 said:

Great news for  riders, The Station renewal project will be finished at the Jamaica bound platform

 Manhattan-bound skips 75 St-Elderts Ln   

Beginning Jan 15, Monday 5 AM until June 2024

Use nearby Cypress Hills or 85 St-Forest Pkwy stations.

Additional travel alternatives:

For service to this station, take the or to Cypress Hills and transfer to a Jamaica Center-bound or     

For service from this station, take the or to 85 St-Forest Pkwy and transfer to a Manhattan-bound or .    

Consider the Q56 bus making stops along Jamaica Ave.

Note: Jamaica Center-bound platform at this station will reopen before the Manhattan-bound platform closes.

What's happening?

We're making station improvements

How many elevated stations are left to be renovated with the new windscreens in the system after this?

[Chris89292]

6 hours ago, slantfan4281 said:

How many elevated stations are left to be renovated with the new windscreens in the system after this?

For the  

• 85th Street-Forest pkwy
• Cypress hills

 

• 103 Street-Corona plaza
• 90th Street (not included in the station renewal project)
• 69th Street
• 52nd Street
• Mets-Willets point (not included in the station renewal project)

The  intervale station still has the old style wind screens, who knows if this station will ever get rehabilitated, hopefully by 2032 all the old wind screen stations are gone

[TDL]

https://abc7ny.com/g-train-shutdown-commute-mta/14329870/

[darkstar8983]

32 minutes ago, TDL said:

https://abc7ny.com/g-train-shutdown-commute-mta/14329870/

that would be a very fast CBTC installation if enough workers are put into the tracks. 24-7 access to the line for about 5-6 weeks would allow for a lot of other work to be completed. Shuttle buses will be a nightmare though

[CyclonicTrainLookout]

On the two weeks of Feb 5-9 and Feb 12-16, Jamaica-bound  will skip 75 Av, Briarwood, and Sutphin Blvd 24/7 due to CBTC installment. Jamaica-bound  will stop at 75 Av and Briarwood during this period. Manhattan bound services for both lines are not affected.

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

On 1/16/2024 at 1:56 PM, darkstar8983 said:

that would be a very fast CBTC installation if enough workers are put into the tracks. 24-7 access to the line for about 5-6 weeks would allow for a lot of other work to be completed. Shuttle buses will be a nightmare though

In theory it would be a good idea, but I'm pretty sure politics would get in the way so that a 24/7 shutdown doesn't happen. The shuttle itself looks to be similar to the one done nearly 10 years ago when the  repaired the tunnels damaged during Hurricane Sandy on the  Line.

[CyclonicTrainLookout]

Weekend of Feb 2-5: 63rd Street  shuttle suspended; replaced by Jamaica-bound  and , with Jamaica  running via 6th Avenue

[darkstar8983]

19 minutes ago, CyclonicTrainLookout said:

Weekend of Feb 2-5: 63rd Street  shuttle suspended; replaced by Jamaica-bound  and , with Jamaica  running via 6th Avenue

Damn - this means that the 53 St tunnel must require extensive work and can’t hold out until the 63 St tunnel is fully complete, and now that one of the tracks are ready, they can resume  service thru that tunnel on weekends.  But the 63 St shuttle must remain running weekdays to have the  running via 6 Av to 57 St, since the  cannot fit on the Manhattan-bound track. Queens-bound, technically there is enough capacity for normal service to be restored.

Edited January 18 by darkstar8983

[Kamen Rider]

4 hours ago, CyclonicTrainLookout said:

On the two weeks of Feb 5-9 and Feb 12-16, Jamaica-bound  will skip 75 Av, Briarwood, and Sutphin Blvd 24/7 due to CBTC installment. Jamaica-bound  will stop at 75 Av and Briarwood during this period. Manhattan bound services for both lines are not affected.

Pretty sure this is the counterpart of the work done last summer that had the F express Manhattan bound.

IIRC, that was switch replacement at Brairwood…

[darkstar8983]

1 minute ago, Kamen Rider said:

Pretty sure this is the counterpart of the work done last summer that had the F express Manhattan bound.

IIRC, that was switch replacement at Brairwood…

Yes, and the switch replacement work is part of CBTC work, since during other CBTC projects, interlockings needed to be replaced or upgraded 

[CyclonicTrainLookout]

Also due to CBTC-related work according to the website, starting on the weekend of Feb 2-5 and the next consecutive weekends after that up to the weekend of Mar 1-4 (including Presidents' Day),  service won't be operating to/from Jamaica Center; it will run to/from 179 St instead.

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

So the downtown platforms of the 79th & 50th St stations on the  Line will be closed from February 5th to the 26th. Reason given is structural maintenance.

[NBTA]

Uh..so Presidents’ Day weekend, they’re shutting the  down between 116th Street and Dyckman. Anyone care to see what’s wrong with that sentence?

[Lex]

9 minutes ago, NBTA said:

Uh..so Presidents’ Day weekend, they’re shutting the  down between 116th Street and Dyckman. Anyone care to see what’s wrong with that sentence?

That would certainly be interesting to see.

[CenSin]

Interesting choice of end stations… There are no switches to turn back trains in either direction from 103 Street to 125 Street (inclusive).

It’s hard to turn trains normally between Dyckman Street and 242 Street too given that they are all side platforms and the switches aren’t all there for that kind of operation, but the segment is short enough for single-tracking.