Fleet Swap Discussion Thread

[Bill from Maspeth]

1 hour ago, CF2 said:

Hello! This is my first time posting a comment to a forum. I am an MTA T/O and I work vacation relief. I do respect the knowledge of you guys concerning all things transit. I just want to know what you think about the following: I'm noticing that a few workers on the A line like the R160s. I've even heard some say they would rather keep them. They don't want the R179s back. However, what we wish for is usually not what takes place. With that said, what do you think about the R179s NOT going back to the A, but to somewhere else? Now there are 13 10-car R179s (3010-3049 and 3238-3327). There are 12 Siemens R160s on the N/Q/W. So howsabout a 'straight-up trade': the 10-car R179s go to N/Q/W and the Siemens R160s plus a R46 (preferably 5870-5873 and 5874-5877) go to the A line. Note: For car number uniformality, 8888-8892, 8913-8917, 8938-8942, and 8978-8982 go to JYD; 8983-8987, 8988-8992, 8998-9002, and 9013-9017 go to the A line. JYD would then have 8843-8982 and the A line would have 8983-9102. Now I realize that this WILL NOT HAPPEN! There's been so much transferring as is. Just want to know if you guys would go along with this to appease A line workers.

So your premise is simply to make the A crews happy by keeping the R160's and give the CI crews "the lemons" because they work the A and the would never work the N/Q/W?  How do you think those crews would feel about that?

The swap you advocate will not happen because the F will eventually get those R160's back because the E/F/M/R must be exclusive R160 due to upcoming CBTC and the number of R160's that CI has assigned is lower than the number of R179's the A line has assigned. 

There are 140 R179's assigned to A service and about 100 R160's assigned to N/Q/W service.  No way would Pitkin Yd get 100 R160's and keep 40 R179's. 

[Calvin]

10 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

So your premise is simply to make the A crews happy by keeping the R160's and give the CI crews "the lemons" because they work the A and the would never work the N/Q/W?  How do you think those crews would feel about that?

The swap you advocate will not happen because the F will eventually get those R160's back because the E/F/M/R must be exclusive R160 due to upcoming CBTC and the number of R160's that CI has assigned is lower than the number of R179's the A line has assigned. 

There are 140 R179's assigned to A service and about 100 R160's assigned to N/Q/W service.  No way would Pitkin Yd get 100 R160's and keep 40 R179's. 

130 to be exact, R179 cars. At least 120 cars (12 trains)  are kept after the Jamaica R46 exchange, at Coney Island for now. Better than zero. 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Calvin

[Bill from Maspeth]

Just now, Calvin said:

130 to be exact, R179 cars. At least 120 cars (12 trains)  are kept after the Jamaica R46 exchange. 

Yes, 130 my error.  Thanks.

[happy283]

5 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Also, The original plan called for ALL, but 40 R160s to be sent to Jamaica, but due to the increased service requirements and the R32 retirement/R179 issues, it left 120’R160s in Coney Island. Since the R211 order is going to be a major fleet expander because only 940/1612 cars will directly replace the R46s, we may see a more uniform car assignment. It also leaves to speculation whether the R160s will all remain in Jamaica or if some R211s will take their place.

Since the R46s are older, they probably wanted to increase the spare factor at CI. As far as the R211, since the cars are only 60 ft, 945 will be needed to replace all R46s, anything above that will expand service. At one point, I know the  was promised R211s and CI may not want to have another car class to maintain so it is likely all the former CI R160s will be sent back once the R211s arrive.

[JayJay85]

6 hours ago, happy283 said:

Since the R46s are older, they probably wanted to increase the spare factor at CI. As far as the R211, since the cars are only 60 ft, 945 will be needed to replace all R46s, anything above that will expand service. At one point, I know the  was promised R211s and CI may not want to have another car class to maintain so it is likely all the former CI R160s will be sent back once the R211s arrive.

Nah, from MTA the R211 will be assigned to  lines more likely, but always subject change.

[R32 3838]

Just now, JayJay85 said:

Nah, from MTA the R211 will be assigned to  lines more likely, but always subject change.

 

the is supposed to get em too.

[Around the Horn]

3 minutes ago, JayJay85 said:

Nah, from MTA the R211 will be assigned to  lines more likely, but always subject change.

when did they ever say this?

[JayJay85]

1 minute ago, Around the Horn said:

when did they ever say this?

They did say it awhile back, of course its subject to change.

[JayJay85]

5 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

 

the is supposed to get em too.

Yea that's right few option order cars (open gangway cars) supposed to go the  too.

[R32 3838]

4 minutes ago, JayJay85 said:

Yea that's right few option order cars (open gangway cars) supposed to go the  too.

 

I think the majority of the order is gonna be between pitkin and Jamaica with a chunk to Coney Island.

[happy283]

5 hours ago, JayJay85 said:

They did say it awhile back, of course its subject to change.

No they didnt, they said the  would get them when riders complained about the R46

[jon2305]

These trains could wind up anywhere in the B division. Some could even to the , who knows.

For now let's just wait see how the first production R211 trains are tested out.

[Fuseguy is Cool]

13 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

I think the majority of the order is gonna be between pitkin and Jamaica with a chunk to Coney Island.

So does this mean that a couple may pop up on the  and ? Also is CBTC currently in effect on the westbound Queens Blvd line? 

[happy283]

39 minutes ago, Fuseguy is Cool said:

So does this mean that a couple may pop up on the  and ?

Depends what option orders are exercised. I believe the base order is set for Pitkin/207 and Jamaica which is where the R46s were pre transfer. What is more likely is for extra R211s to be sent to Jamaica to increase the spare leading to more R160s being sent to CI to increase their spare as well so then CI doesnt need to maintain another car class.

[Maxwell179]

23 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

So your premise is simply to make the A crews happy by keeping the R160's and give the CI crews "the lemons" because they work the A and the would never work the N/Q/W?  How do you think those crews would feel about that?

The swap you advocate will not happen because the F will eventually get those R160's back because the E/F/M/R must be exclusive R160 due to upcoming CBTC and the number of R160's that CI has assigned is lower than the number of R179's the A line has assigned. 

There are 140 R179's assigned to A service and about 100 R160's assigned to N/Q/W service.  No way would Pitkin Yd get 100 R160's and keep 40 R179's. 

I think he knows this already 

[NewFlyer 230]

17 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

I think the majority of the order is gonna be between pitkin and Jamaica with a chunk to Coney Island.

I know with the MTA anything is subject to change, but being that these trains are suppose to replace the R46’s wouldn’t it make since for Pitkin, Coney Island and 207 to get them since they have R46s? Since Jamaica received a majority of Coney Islands R160s, Jamaica would be good in terms of cars since they have the youngest fleet overall now.
I know the open gangway cars probably will end up at Jamaica for them to test out the extra capacity which I guess might be their incentive to give Jamaica more R211’s.

[R32 3838]

2 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I know with the MTA anything is subject to change, but being that these trains are suppose to replace the R46’s wouldn’t it make since for Pitkin, Coney Island and 207 to get them since they have R46s? Since Jamaica received a majority of Coney Islands R160s, Jamaica would be good in terms of cars since they have the youngest fleet overall now.
I know the open gangway cars probably will end up at Jamaica for them to test out the extra capacity which I guess might be their incentive to give Jamaica more R211’s.

CI should only get a small chunk of the order. Jamaica might get the majority of the order. Imo it should, these cars are designed for high ridership lines. Hell they should give concourse 150 of these as well. The Has not gotten anything new since 1989.

[happy283]

8663-8667, 8708-8712, 8723-8727, 8828-8832, 8858-8862, 8878-8882, 8888-8892, 8953-8962, 8993-8997, 9003-9007, 9018-9022, 9128-9132, 9223-9227, 9268-9272, 9328-9332, 9408-9412, 9423-9427, 9453-9457, 9503-9507, 9533-9537, 9568-9572, 9628-9632, 9688-9692, 9728-9732, 9818-9822, 9843-9847, 9853-9857, 9873-9877, 9903-9907

150 cars. 15 trains. at pitkin

Quite a few R160s sent back to Jamaica. Anyone know if others were transferred to Pitkin to take their place.

Edited June 23, 2020 by happy283

[T to Dyre Avenue]

5 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

CI should only get a small chunk of the order. Jamaica might get the majority of the order. Imo it should, these cars are designed for high ridership lines. Hell they should give concourse 150 of these as well. The Has not gotten anything new since 1989.

I’d be fine with the R211T cars going to Jamaica since those are the open-gangway cars. But that’s an option order. The base order cars - which have standard closed ends - should go to Pitkin, 207 and CI to retire the R46s. 

[happy283]

10 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

I’d be fine with the R211T cars going to Jamaica since those are the open-gangway cars. But that’s an option order. The base order cars - which have standard closed ends - should go to Pitkin, 207 and CI to retire the R46s. 

Another option is that they go to Pitkin/207 and Jamaica and then CI gets all the R160s back that have recently been sent to Jamaica.

[Jemorie]

7 hours ago, happy283 said:

Another option is that they go to Pitkin/207 and Jamaica and then CI gets all the R160s back that have recently been sent to Jamaica.

The R160s that were assigned to Coney Island were sent to Jamaica for a reason: CBTC.

CBTC work on the Queens Blvd Line is expected to wrap up next year or so. Until then, it is currently being done in phases. Keep in mind that every line that currently has CBTC signals are of a different age. Sending the R160s back to CI would render the CBTC standards already equipped in them practically useless, especially after all that hard work the  put in long before the Jamaica/CI swap.

Regardless of the Queens Blvd Line being the second busiest line in the system, that option is not a good idea. Please correct me if I'm wrong though.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Jemorie

[happy283]

2 hours ago, Jemorie said:

The R160s that were assigned to Coney Island were sent to Jamaica for a reason: CBTC.

CBTC work on the Queens Blvd Line is expected to wrap up next year or so. Until then, it is currently being done in phases. Keep in mind that every line that currently has CBTC signals are of a different age. Sending the R160s back to CI would render the CBTC standards already equipped in them practically useless, especially after all that hard work the  put in long before the Jamaica/CI swap.

Regardless of the Queens Blvd Line being the second busiest line in the system, that option is not a good idea. Please correct me if I'm wrong though.

I believe that aside from the  all the CBTC signals will be the same. At one point the mta specifically said Jamaica would get the R211s. Now I feel the Jamaica/CI swap was completely pointless because the R46s are being retired in about two years and are being replaced with cars which will be delivered with CBTC in which case less R160s would need to be equipped at that time.

[Collin]

12 hours ago, happy283 said:

Another option is that they go to Pitkin/207 and Jamaica and then CI gets all the R160s back that have recently been sent to Jamaica.

My opinion is that the regular R211s should go to Pitkin/207 and Coney Island, the same yards that currently run R46s.  It eliminates the need for another swap.  However, any R211Ts should go to Jamaica, displacing Siemens R160s cars back to CI.  There would not be perfect uniformity.  There would still be a majority and minority fleet at each yard.  

[Around the Horn]

3 hours ago, happy283 said:

 Now I feel the Jamaica/CI swap was completely pointless because the R46s are being retired in about two years and are being replaced with cars which will be delivered with CBTC in which case less R160s would need to be equipped at that time.

The base order is likely all going to Pitkin followed by Coney Island. I just don't see them playing musical chairs with the equipment again, not to mention that 8th Avenue and Astoria are in line for CBTC projects and will need the cars.

I can see R211Ts pushing out the Siemens units but otherwise the ex-CIY units are staying put in Jamaica... I highly doubt Jamaica sees an R211 until at least 2022, unless they got the pilot set in an R160s on the type deal.

[R32 3838]

Jamaica Is Getting a large chunk of these cars. 58 inch doors are a big factor. They are not that stupid not to give jamaica any R211's. I can see the Base order going to pitkin and coney for the and the option orders going to Jamaica and pitkin. 

 

Why Put cars with larger doors on lines that don't get high ridership vs the ones that do. This is why they made the Lex 100% R142/R142A's due to that key factor. The are the busiest B division routes. All of those R160's aren't staying at Jamaica, They only made it 100% to get them ready for CBTC. Coney Island getting a decent chunk of those R160's back, It wouldn't make sense for CI to get a large amount of these cars. If the Astoria CBTC is done by the time they say they want it done, They can use R160's. The R211's that would go to CI should go to the since its ridership is the highest.