news NYC savings from MTA takeover of private bus routes never arrived

[Q101viaSteinway]

Prior arbitrators have ruled (in cases of TA/OA route swaps) that the routes "belong" to the , not to the unions, in recongition of the contractual "management rights" clause — i.e. management reserves the right to manage.  I can easily imagine similar rulings for swaps among MTAB depots (e.g. Q53 to Far Rockaway, Q60 to Baisley Park).

 

But arbitration with Q8 bus to Spring Creek, arbitration ruled that MTA have no right to transfer Q8 from JFK to Spring Creek. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

False, it's not specifically catered for Yonkers residents specifically because it hardly gets any mileage up there with only 5 stops along with the fact that there's 3 trips in the AM that doesn't even start at Yonkers, that kinda says alot. It's more catered to East Riverdale and Kingsbridge Folks, where it's peak of the ridership shows.

 

And it wouldn't be the first time the MTA looked into cutting off-peak BxM3s. IF they were to cut service to Yonkers, the last stop would likely be 262nd Street & Broadway, which between there and Sedgwick/KB Road gets the bulk of ridership.

Yeah, but that's the set-up in the AM, service from Yonkers skips Kingsbridge, and Kingsbridge has it's own BxM3. So three originate in Kingsbridge, and three bypass Kingsbridge.

 

I've ridden some BxM3's before that only had riders going specifically to points in Yonkers (on the weekends), and no being dropped off before the city line. But I don't know what's the deal with that, if that's the case.

If it "is specifically catered for Yonkers," then Westchester D.O.T. (a/k/a "Bee-Line") should run it.  There is no legitimate reason for asking New York City residents to subsidize Yonkers riders.

However, the depot is in Yonkers, and buses serve Kingsbridge AND Riverdale in addition to Yonkers, so it would make sense to provide service for those few people, with the deadhead being minuscule. However, it gets ridership from mainly those area (you'll get some Riverdale riders, but most use the BxM1/BxM2).

[B35 via Church]

False, it's not specifically catered for Yonkers residents specifically because it hardly gets any mileage up there with only 5 stops along with the fact that there's 3 trips in the AM that doesn't even start at Yonkers, that kinda says alot. It's more catered to East Riverdale and Kingsbridge Folks, where it's peak of the ridership shows.

 

And it wouldn't be the first time the MTA looked into cutting off-peak BxM3s. IF they were to cut service to Yonkers, the last stop would likely be 262nd Street & Broadway, which between there and Sedgwick/KB Road gets the bulk of ridership.

This.

 

The BxM3's patronage in Yonkers is poor, so this idea that the route is catered to Yonkers residents is not true... Too many Yonkers patrons are too busy taking BL-1's & 2's to the , to be bothered with taking BxM3's directly to manhattan......

 

Yeah, but that's the set-up in the AM, service from Yonkers skips Kingsbridge, and Kingsbridge has it's own BxM3. So three originate in Kingsbridge, and three bypass Kingsbridge.

 

I've ridden some BxM3's before that only had riders going specifically to points in Yonkers (on the weekends), and no being dropped off before the city line. But I don't know what's the deal with that, if that's the case.

 

However, the depot is in Yonkers, and buses serve Kingsbridge AND Riverdale in addition to Yonkers, so it would make sense to provide service for those few people, with the deadhead being minuscule. However, it gets ridership from mainly those area (you'll get some Riverdale riders, but most use the BxM1/BxM2).

You're totally underestimating Riverdale ridership on the BxM3..... The usage of the BxM1/2 out of Riverdalians is immaterial...

 

That's like saying you'll get some Harlem riders on the M3, but most use the M1 - Its two totally different parts of the neighborhood....

[justhafacts]

MTA, needs the merger in the worse way.... Too much inefficiencies and redundant services. Plus it streamlines everything, almost like an entire bus network overhaul once MTAB is absorbed into NYCT. Routes will be merged, and moved to more logical depots to lessen deadheading. Depots will close be moved or consolidated.

 

I can't wait for this day....

When Will This Day Happen

[bobtehpanda]

Basically things will be almost the same after the megers. Unions are still different so that won't change much Queens MTA bus unions are different from NYCT ones so their probably won't be swaps like the Q112 to JA or Q15 to CS unless it's gonna have a effect on something. One thing I do see is cuts and I see express routes suffering the worst. The QM18 I definitely see in danger. The QM21 could be gone completely with the X63 being altered a little because most people in that area use the Q111/Q113. I always say this but I just feel that the Q21 is going to be eliminated and the Q11 and Q41 are alternatives because many get off at the Rockaway Blvd station anyway. The Q41's headways are better since the Q21 runs at every 30 almost all the time except during early mornings and evenings. The Q34 might be messed with and a few others little things like cutting the Q101 back to Queens Plaza and so on. I can't wait for these ancient but signs to be replace because they look ugly and they don't help anyone at all. People ask on the Q25 and Q65 does this bus go to Flushing or so on. I know the MTA will definitely want them to be replaced because they want everything unified.

 

 

The big question is when will this merger be complete. It will be 10 years 11 for LGA and JFK since the take over happened and still not finished.

 

This isn't exactly abnormal. As far as I know, MABSTOA and NYCT were separate entities for quite a long time.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This.

 

The BxM3's patronage in Yonkers is poor, so this idea that the route is catered to Yonkers residents is not true... Too many Yonkers patrons are too busy taking BL-1's & 2's to the , to be bothered with taking BxM3's directly to manhattan......

 

You're totally underestimating Riverdale ridership on the BxM3..... The usage of the BxM1/2 out of Riverdalians is immaterial...

 

That's like saying you'll get some Harlem riders on the M3, but most use the M1 - Its two totally different parts of the neighborhood....

 

 

Yeah, but that's the set-up in the AM, service from Yonkers skips Kingsbridge, and Kingsbridge has it's own BxM3. So three originate in Kingsbridge, and three bypass Kingsbridge.

 

I've ridden some BxM3's before that only had riders going specifically to points in Yonkers (on the weekends), and no being dropped off before the city line. But I don't know what's the deal with that, if that's the case.

 

However, the depot is in Yonkers, and buses serve Kingsbridge AND Riverdale in addition to Yonkers, so it would make sense to provide service for those few people, with the deadhead being minuscule. However, it gets ridership from mainly those area (you'll get some Riverdale riders, but most use the BxM1/BxM2).

I agree with B35... I have actually rode the BxM3 a few times on weekends when I needed an Express Bus Metrocard, and the store near me was out.  I had to schlepp down the hill over to 242nd and Broadway for one and then I would walk north for the BxM3 in Riverdale to board and get a good seat, as there was no way I was backtracking up the hill for the express bus. The BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18 only serve those of us who are up in the hills in Riverdale or ("upstairs" as we call it) (East and West of Riverdale Avenue and West and East to some extent of the Henry Hudson Parkway).  The hilly topography and lack of a street grid pretty much makes it a royal PITA for someone along Broadway or immediately west of it to get over to the BxM1, BxM2 or BxM18, so those people who are in Fieldston that are closer to Broadway would more than likely walk to the BxM3 OR they would have to drive over to Henry Hudson Parkway if they wanted more frequent service.  Walking through the estate area in Fieldston to get the express bus on Henry Hudson Parkway is far from ideal.  There seems to be a decent amount of usage in North Riverdale, but also in Kingsbridge Heights to be specific which has parts along the reservoir that are still somewhat decent and mainly homeowners that use it.  The thing is with the BxM3, there isn't that much going on along Broadway, as it is mainly residential and solidly middle class, and then the BxM3 depending on one's proximity has to compete with the train at the Riverdale boarder.  The folks in Kingsbridge Heights appear to use it here and there on weekends, but mostly for work.  From what I was told by B/O's that work the BxM3, ridership is scattered, and there some that use the late buses especially to get to Yonkers, but it would be a stretch to say that the BxM3's core ridership is in Yonkers. 

[GreatOne2k]

BxM3 is also the only bus service Yonkers has on Thanksgiving and Christmas. The BxM4 (or a BxM5) should run to Yonkers Raceway to boost ridership.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

BxM3 is also the only bus service Yonkers has on Thanksgiving and Christmas. The BxM4 (or a BxM5) should run to Yonkers Raceway to boost ridership.

 

I ask again... Why should NYC taxpayers subsidize Yonkers riders?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I ask again... Why should NYC taxpayers subsidize Yonkers riders?

I agree with you but given the fact that Yonkers Depot is fairly close it's not that big of a deal.  I would not however have other buses running past the NYC border.  Either way the people from Yonkers are going to use our express buses. The most certainly use the BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18. They walk or take the Bee Line buses down to the city border and get on at West 261st and Riverdale Avenue.   The do the same thing in Woodlawn with the BxM4, as I have done it myself for tutoring sessions.  Take the bus to Katonah and 242nd which actually lets off in Yonkers just across the border, and they get picked up to finish my commute to Southeast Yonkers.  

[GreatOne2k]

I ask again... Why should NYC taxpayers subsidize Yonkers riders?

 

So Westchester taxpayers can subsidize NYC riders W60, W61, W62 (Boston Road), and to a lesser extent W45 (Pelham Bay Park)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So Westchester taxpayers can subsidize NYC riders W60, W61, W62 (Boston Road), and to a lesser extent W45 (Pelham Bay Park)

Oh please with that... We don't need Westchester. The main bulk of the jobs are here in NYC, not in Westchester.  Sure some people work in Westchester that live in NYC, but we surely would not be suffering if they didn't run their services here.  More like Westchester needs NYC for the jobs.  Without NYC, those folks in Westchester couldn't live in their expensive homes in Rye, Scarsdale, Larchmont, etc.  I know of several guys that I used to work with when I worked in the construction industry that made well over $100,000 a year as senior project managers or principals, and had homes in Greenwich (Connecticut), Scarsdale or Rye, NY. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Oh please with that... We don't need Westchester. The main bulk of the jobs are here in NYC, not in Westchester.  Sure some people work in Westchester that live in NYC, but we surely would not be suffering if they didn't run their services here.  More like Westchester needs NYC for the jobs.  Without NYC, those folks in Westchester couldn't live in their expensive homes in Rye, Scarsdale, Larchmont, etc.  I know of several guys that I used to work with when I worked in the construction industry that made well over $100,000 a year as senior project managers or principals, and had homes in Greenwich (Connecticut), Scarsdale or Rye, NY. 

 

You're missing the point. Just like some of them utilize our services, some of our riders utilize their services. You also do have reverse commuters as well. Rush hour isn't the typical to from city stuff anymore, specifically for rail customers. I'm not saying though that it's a domino effect (with the subsidizing). NYC can just as much as take away their services from Yonkers. It also works out anyways, because Westchester pays a tax to the MTA (not sure what type of tax) for running their services in their county, same as the rest of the outer lying areas and counties

[Quill Depot]

Can someone explain the point behind two bus branches. Why not consolidate MTA bus and MaBSTOA

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Can someone explain the point behind two bus branches. Why not consolidate MTA bus and MaBSTOA

MTA Bus is a separate company/division of the MTA that got established specifically to take over the private bus companies the city was subsidizing. Different unions, the fact that it gets a city subsidy, and other sh*t makes it very complicated to merge into NYCT.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You're missing the point. Just like some of them utilize our services, some of our riders utilize their services. You also do have reverse commuters as well. Rush hour isn't the typical to from city stuff anymore, specifically for rail customers. I'm not saying though that it's a domino effect (with the subsidizing). NYC can just as much as take away their services from Yonkers. It also works out anyways, because Westchester pays a tax to the MTA (not sure what type of tax) for running their services in their county, same as the rest of the outer lying areas and counties

I never denied all of that, nor did I miss that point. I know all of that, but still. Westchester needs us more than we need them. The people doing reverse commuting pales in comparison to those working in the city and commuting from Westchester.

[B35 via Church]

You're missing the point. Just like some of them utilize our services, some of our riders utilize their services. You also do have reverse commuters as well. Rush hour isn't the typical to from city stuff anymore, specifically for rail customers. I'm not saying though that it's a domino effect (with the subsidizing). NYC can just as much as take away their services from Yonkers. It also works out anyways, because Westchester pays a tax to the MTA (not sure what type of tax) for running their services in their county, same as the rest of the outer lying areas and counties

Sure, but have this guy tell it (former bee line exec.), he couldn't care less about NYC folks (except when they rode bee line, of course)....

 

I ask again... Why should NYC taxpayers subsidize Yonkers riders?

 

So Westchester taxpayers can subsidize NYC riders W60, W61, W62 (Boston Road), and to a lesser extent W45 (Pelham Bay Park)

I don't see this as a chicken & egg type scenario.... Westchester needs NYC a hell of a lot more than NYC needs westchester.....

 

If Bee line shut down shop tomorrow & the MTA ceased having the MNRR make stops in westchester, NYC would not suffer financially as much as Westchester would... For starters, MNRR does just fine with its CT usage (Speaking of CT, I find that few actually disembark in Westchester;  They're goin straight to NYC).....

[Q43LTD]

I don't mean to go off topic, but I wonder if NICE is the same way?

[CPBO]

I don't see a absorption of mta bus to nyct....I see it as it is mta bus....they don't want to give us a fair pension...and from what I understand is is cheaper to keep us separate ....I see maybe one day making us private again....but that is my guess.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

I don't see a absorption of mta bus to nyct....I see it as it is mta bus....they don't want to give us a fair pension...and from what I understand is is cheaper to keep us separate ....I see maybe one day making us private again....but that is my guess.

Even if it is "merged" it would only be the same brand, radio/farebox system, and maybe taking on NYCT routes. MTAB will stay basically a MABSTOA, a separate agency within NYCT where the employees get different benefits, pensions and all.

[qjtransitmaster]

Sure, but have this guy tell it (former bee line exec.), he couldn't care less about NYC folks (except when they rode bee line, of course)....

 

I don't see this as a chicken & egg type scenario.... Westchester needs NYC a hell of a lot more than NYC needs westchester.....

 

If Bee line shut down shop tomorrow & the MTA ceased having the MNRR make stops in westchester, NYC would not suffer financially as much as Westchester would... For starters, MNRR does just fine with its CT usage (Speaking of CT, I find that few actually disembark in Westchester;  They're goin straight to NYC).....

You do realize most trains that go past Stamford do not stop in Westchester county anyway.

[B35 via Church]

You do realize most trains that go past Stamford do not stop in Westchester county anyway.

yes yes, young grasshoppa, that's the point..... they want NYC.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

I don't see a absorption of mta bus to nyct....I see it as it is mta bus....they don't want to give us a fair pension...and from what I understand is is cheaper to keep us separate ....I see maybe one day making us private again....but that is my guess.

 

Once upon a decade, MaBSTOA had to be kept separate at all times and at all costs — even buses couldn't be moved between TA and OA depots. Then things changed and buses could be swapped. Now, buses and routes and even drivers can be swapped (to some extent).

 

Eventually, MTA Bus will be folded into NYCT (or NYCT will be folded into MTA Bus, or both will be folded into a new creature).  It may take a few years, or a few dozen years, but it will happen.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Once upon a decade, MaBSTOA had to be kept separate at all times and at all costs — even buses couldn't be moved between TA and OA depots. Then things changed and buses could be swapped. Now, buses and routes and even drivers can be swapped (to some extent).

 

Eventually, MTA Bus will be folded into NYCT (or NYCT will be folded into MTA Bus, or both will be folded into a new creature).  It may take a few years, or a few dozen years, but it will happen.

And you're so confident because??

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

And you're so confident because??

There are rumors (how accurate they are, eh, I don't know) that MTA wants to merge Bus Company with NYCT. I've heard a couple of times. but I don't know if or when that will happen (I've heard 2018, and other time periods around it).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There are rumors (how accurate they are, eh, I don't know) that MTA wants to merge Bus Company with NYCT. I've heard a couple of times. but I don't know if or when that will happen (I've heard 2018, and other time periods around it).

Well rumors are just that rumors... I just hate how he acts like such a know-it-all... Unless he works for the or has accurate inside knowledge, all he is doing is speculating.