Jump to content


Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Sign in to follow this  
Fan Railer

Brace Yourselves: Grand Jury Declines To Indict NYPD Officer In Chokehold Death Of Eric Garner

Recommended Posts

Honestly, I don't get this. At least in the Brown case, there was evidence to doubt the convictability of Officer Wilson, but here, there is indisputable proof (video evidence) that Eric Garner didn't do anything remotely close to deserving death by chokehold / stress induced by chokehold.

 

That being said, stay safe over the next few days; hopefully things won't be nearly as bad as they were in Ferguson.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/eric-garner_n_6263656.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013&ir=Politics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Medically, Garner being morbidly obese comes into play here as to cause of death. Also his resisting arrest to warrant the chokehold in the first place is key. 

 

Did he deserve it? No, but that's not the point of the law. The point of the law is to punish those who do bad things. Yes, its tragic and possibly an injustice. But we can't have a mob mentality and an emotional response to such situations. That's why the statue that symbolizes justice is blindfolded. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Medically, Garner being morbidly obese comes into play here as to cause of death. Also his resisting arrest to warrant the chokehold in the first place is key. 

 

Did he deserve it? No, but that's not the point of the law. The point of the law is to punish those who do bad things. Yes, its tragic and possibly an injustice. But we can't have a mob mentality and an emotional response to such situations. That's why the statue that symbolizes justice is blindfolded. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice

Did you just ignore the fact that the use of chokeholds is prohibited by NYPD policy? How about all those times he said that he couldn't breathe, and yet no one does anything about that? You can't say that this is "possibly an injustice" when it clearly is. The guy did not have to be handled in a way that would cause him to die. The fact that the officers involved will not have to face legal retribution for practices that are clearly out of line with the proper handling of a non-violent / non-lethal individual is a huge injustice and a message to everyone in America (not just African Americans) that the police can do anything (namely kill you or the ones you love) and get away with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you just ignore the fact that the use of chokeholds is prohibited by NYPD policy? How about all those times he said that he couldn't breathe, and yet no one does anything about that? You can't say that this is "possibly an injustice" when it clearly is. The guy did not have to be handled in a way that would cause him to die. The fact that the officers involved will not have to face legal retribution for practices that are clearly out of line with the proper handling of a non-violent / non-lethal individual is a huge injustice and a message to everyone in America (not just African Americans) that the police can do anything (namely kill you or the ones you love) and get away with it.

If you actually believed that cop would be indicted from a Staten Island jury I have a bridge to sell you.  Most of Staten Island (save the ghetto areas of the North Shore) is conservative and pro cop.  I should know as I am a former Staten Islander and tend to lean conservative though I'm an Independent.  Also, I have been a juror and I can tell you now that some street thug like Garner isn't viewed as highly as a cop is, so even with the cop's history, he still gets the benefit of the doubt.  Just the way it is. 

 

If Garner had a clean record and didn't resist it would be one thing, but he has a record and did resist, so he created the situation to begin with.  It's a tragedy indeed, but hopefully a lesson is learned from all of this.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you actually believed that cop would be indicted from a Staten Island jury I have a bridge to sell you.  Most of Staten Island (save the ghetto areas of the North Shore) is conservative and pro cop.  I should know as I am a former Staten Islander and tend to lean conservative though I'm an Independent.  Also, I have been a juror and I can tell you now that some street thug like Garner isn't viewed as highly as a cop is, so even with the cop's history, he still gets the benefit of the doubt.  Just the way it is. 

 

If Garner had a clean record and didn't resist it would be one thing, but he has a record and did resist, so he created the situation to begin with.  It's a tragedy indeed, but hopefully a lesson is learned from all of this.

I understand that, and that's hugely unfortunate.

 

I do have to say, however I don't think that Garner's record or hypothetical lack thereof would have changed anything in this situation. There is a systemic issue if people ignore the empirical evidence and base their jury rulings on opinions formed independently of the evidence provided. It is clear here from the indisputable video evidence that the cops acted out of line when taking Garner into custody. If you are just going to ignore those facts and base your vote on whether you favor the cops or not, then you shouldn't be on a grand jury, or any jury for that matter. The whole point of being tried by a jury of your peers is so that your fellow citizens can look at the evidence objectively and decide whether or not to charge / convict you.

 

This whole case basically says that cops can kill you and get away with it if the community that they're in is conservative / pro-cop (which would make them unwilling to indict).

 

I also don't want to say that race is a factor here, but I strongly suspect that it may have played a part. What I want to know is the breakdown of the grand jury panel. Where there any African American jurors on the panel?

 

EDIT: I mean come on... even Fox News thinks that based on the tape evidence, the officer should have been indicted:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2014/12/03/judge-andrew-napolitano-nypd-officer-daniel-pantaleo-should-have-been-indicted-eric

Watch the video. Apparently there were African American jurors.

Edited by Fan Railer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly believe this officer deserved to be indicted, the choke hold was uncalled for. True the perp was resisting but there's no excuse for the choking and the perp was saying he couldn't breathe. The Ferguson officer had much more of a valid self defense excuse for what he did, I understand how he got let off but I'm sorry this cop was in the wrong and should've been indicted. This was police brutality.


But being the island I can't be too surprised. Probably the only borough where the cop would've been let off by the jury.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Medically, Garner being morbidly obese comes into play here as to cause of death. Also his resisting arrest to warrant the chokehold in the first place is key. 

 

Did he deserve it? No, but that's not the point of the law. The point of the law is to punish those who do bad things. Yes, its tragic and possibly an injustice. But we can't have a mob mentality and an emotional response to such situations. That's why the statue that symbolizes justice is blindfolded. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice

 

Stupid and ignorant comment.

 

It does not come into play when airways are constricted and he is screaming he 'cannot breath,' you boot-licker. And if you call arms in the air "resisting arrest," you must be a happy member of the NYPD payroll. 

 

The point of law is indeed to punish those who do bad things...like violating department policy and using excessive force and killing somebody. It is not "possibly an injustice," it is quite bluntly an injustice that this cop walks.  

 

Protest is underway, that is all.

 

I was marching.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do feel for Garner's  side on this one, though  on the Ferguson case, I all for the cop.

 

I'm hoping that New Yorker's would be more civilized in terms of protesting rather the others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They burned a cop car in Crown Heights. Its on.

 

and an undercover one too, also apparently according to nbc news's Anne Thompson on twitter:

"Protestors try to stop the 4 train bound for Crown Heights. Police pull them off the subway and take 1 man away. #EricGarner "

https://twitter.com/annenbcnews/status/540351906078810113

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly we do blacks have to be so rebellious every time they are confronted with the cops? when a cop stops you just tell them there questions and check you and your on your Mary way. what do you have to hide? in this case Eric Garner resisted arrest before being throwing to the ground. if garner cooperated he would still be alive today.

 

Yes I know most cases it doesn't happen when some cops are assh---s but come on why do we have to put on a show for cops, you are asking for it.

Edited by MTARegional Bus
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly we do blacks have to be so rebellious every time they are confronted with the cops? when a cop stops you just tell them there questions and check you and your on your Mary way. what do you have to hide? in this case Eric Garner resisted arrest before being throwing to the ground. if garner cooperated he would still be alive today.

 

Yes I know most cases it doesn't happen when some cops are assh---s but come on why do we have to put on a show for cops, you are asking for it.

You're bringing up semi-irrelevant points. It doesn't matter all that much that he was "resisting" arrest. What matters that the police used excessive force in a situation that did not warrant the use of excessive force. Garner wasn't armed; he didn't have a gun, nor did he make a move to physically assault the officers confronting him, as the evidence suggests that Michael Brown did. You can clearly see in the video that the officers take the first physical action by putting him in that chokehold, which they erroneously thought was the proper way to subdue him. There is a huge disconnect here if you think that the officers involved in this case deserve to walk without at least a trail.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly we do blacks have to be so rebellious every time they are confronted with the cops? when a cop stops you just tell them there questions and check you and your on your Mary way. what do you have to hide? in this case Eric Garner resisted arrest before being throwing to the ground. if garner cooperated he would still be alive today.

 

Yes I know most cases it doesn't happen when some cops are assh---s but come on why do we have to put on a show for cops, you are asking for it.

I might be watching too much crime on TV (mostly The Mentalist), but there's a tendency for criminals to run or resist arrest almost instinctively. Any way you look at this case, the cops used the wrong methods for the situation and with permanent, irreversible results. Suppose that the man could have successfully resist arrest and escaped, the cops could just get him next time. With death, there is no next time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, anyone so much as touches the Subway, you lose my sympathy.

 

Stomp, scream, lie in the street and yell all you want, but you do NOT mess with the trains...

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, anyone so much as touches the Subway, you lose my sympathy.

 

Stomp, scream, lie in the street and yell all you want, but you do NOT mess with the trains...

 

 

Yea, some of us have to go to work and pay the bills, looks like the protester have a lot of free time on there hands.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea, some of us have to go to work and pay the bills, looks like the protester have a lot of free time on there hands.

 

 

OK, anyone so much as touches the Subway, you lose my sympathy.

 

Stomp, scream, lie in the street and yell all you want, but you do NOT mess with the trains...

You two are something else.  Someone lost their life due to excessive force by cops.  Show some compassion.  So what you were inconvenienced... You're alive nonetheless... My commute was delayed last night and this morning.  People have a right to protest and show their dismay with the system, which includes the subway.  I'm pro cop, but what that cop did was really inexcusable, and people are disgusted with the decision.  There needs to be an overhaul with the system in general and it doesn't just start with hiring more minorities as if white cops are too insensitive to deal with minorities.  The whole mentality has to change regardless of what the race or ethnicity of the cops hired is, and until that happens we'll have more of these incidents.

 

What I am sick of hearing about are these lawsuits costing taxpayers millions of dollars.  This family is going to file a Civil suit for millions (and win) because of this knuckle head and his bone head move.  Sure the guy resisted, but with all of those cops surrounding him I don't see where exactly he was going.  

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You two are something else.  Someone lost their life due to excessive force by cops.  Show some compassion.  So what you were inconvenienced... You're alive nonetheless... My commute was delayed last night and this morning.  People have a right to protest and show their dismay with the system, which includes the subway.  I'm pro cop, but what that cop did was really inexcusable, and people are disgusted with the decision.  There needs to be an overhaul with the system in general and it doesn't just start with hiring more minorities as if white cops are too insensitive to deal with minorities.  The whole mentality has to change regardless of what the race or ethnicity of the cops hired is, and until that happens we'll have more of these incidents.

 

What I am sick of hearing about are these lawsuits costing taxpayers millions of dollars.  This family is going to file a Civil suit for millions (and win) because of this knuckle head and his bone head move.  Sure the guy resisted, but with all of those cops surrounding him I don't see where exactly he was going.  

 

 

VG8 having compassion WOW that new to me lol .  

 

Am not taking blame at Eric and action of that cop were on uncalled for,but if you are trying to protest don't do it in a manner for the hard working people in this city,it's not there fault, go to city hall or the court house, there the ones that clear the cop of the charges .

Edited by MTARegional Bus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

VG8 having compassion WOW that new to me lol .  

 

Am not taking blame at Eric and action of that cop were on uncalled for,but if you are trying to protest don't do it in a manner for the hard working people in this city,it's not there fault, go to city hall or the court house, there the ones that clear the cop of the charges .

That's the whole friggin' point... This man was killed by excessive force by a cop and people think they should go on to work as if everything is okay.  Are you serious with yourself? I mean I get it... Hell I needed to get to work too... We all do... But to sit here and b*tch about how your subway ride was held up because of people protesting police brutality is just completely selfish as if they should only protest in areas where you aren't affected.  If that happened to your family you would be singing a different tune.

 

This IMO isn't about race (even though the media is making it about that).  This is about cops who think they're above the law and can do as they please when they want, and as far as I'm concerned, we are all supposed to be held to the same laws, but some of these cops out here (minorities included) don't think that the laws apply to them, so it's okay to put someone in a choke hold for selling cigarettes.  I mean the whole thing is f*cking insane.  Now they're saying that they were ordered to take this guy in for selling cigarettes... Don't they have better things to do like catching robbers and rapists... Now like I said, Garner was no saint, and quite frankly shouldn't have resisted arrest, but what that cop did was unnecessary.  My thinking is he saw a big black guy and treated the guy like he was animal as if that was the only way to arrest him.  I've seen this crap with whites too with white cops using more force than necessary when trying to arrest white folks.  I think some cops like the idea of being "in control" and having control over others and it fills their egos.  That's why I don't think it makes a difference if you hire more minorities because cops with ego trips have them regardless of their race.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

didn't it use to be that you needed a college degree to be a police officer?

I believe it was... 

 

The problem is that departments don't want educated people to be cops anymore. They just want mindless drones that they can order around and pay less. We need well educated people in these positions of power and authority; those types of people are more likely to be respectful, compassionate, and conscious of rights and racial perceptions, whereas hiring people with only high school diplomas (which is a joke nowadays) ensures the continued streak of ignorance and racism on the part of the police department; most people fresh out of high school don't know squat about Constitutional rights of others and are just looking to flex their muscles in a position of authority that they obviously can't handle. Until that type of hiring / training reform happens, we're not going to see a mending of the distrust in the police that the Black community has.

VG8 having compassion WOW that new to me lol .  

 

Am not taking blame at Eric and action of that cop were on uncalled for,but if you are trying to protest don't do it in a manner for the hard working people in this city,it's not there fault, go to city hall or the court house, there the ones that clear the cop of the charges .

You are honestly just being a troll. I get the feeling that you're just posting just to be at odds with VG8. Him and I may have our political differences, but at least I can say that there are issues that we can find common ground on.

Edited by Fan Railer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe it was... 

 

The problem is that departments don't want educated people to be cops anymore. They just want mindless drones that they can order around and pay less. We need well educated people in these positions of power and authority; those types of people are more likely to be respectful, compassionate, and conscious of rights and racial perceptions, whereas hiring people with only high school diplomas (which is a joke nowadays) ensures the continued streak of ignorance and racism on the part of the police department; most people fresh out of high school don't know squat about Constitutional rights of others and are just looking to flex their muscles in a position of authority that they obviously can't handle. Until that type of hiring / training reform happens, we're not going to see a mending of the distrust in the police that the Black community has.

 

You are honestly just being a troll. I get the feeling that you're just posting just to be at odds with VG8. Him and I may have our political differences, but at least I can say that there are issues that we can find common ground on.

He isn't trolling.  He's been a member here for a while.  His viewpoints in this case are selfish.  Nothing more, nothing less.  The thing that I do like about being part of the younger generation is we're more vocal when it comes to unjust situations. However you still have self-entitled types that could give two sh*ts as long as it doesn't affect them because this could never happen to them. Police brutality should never be accepted and it should never be okay to just kill people the way that this guy was killed.  What really pissed me was seeing that officer practically sit on the guy's head as he has his head pressed on the ground.  Just treating the guy like an animal...

 

The situation with cops these days is that you have a lot of people who can't be successful in other areas, so they become cops.  A lot of these guys are society's rejects who now can feel better about themselves because they can order people around.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the whole friggin' point... This man was killed by excessive force by a cop and people think they should go on to work as if everything is okay.  Are you serious with yourself? I mean I get it... Hell I needed to get to work too... We all do... But to sit here and b*tch about how your subway ride was held up because of people protesting police brutality is just completely selfish as if they should only protest in areas where you aren't affected.  If that happened to your family you would be singing a different tune.

 

There is a crime commuted every single day in this city, this case is nothing. and I lost an uncle to Violent crime and the worst part about it is no one in the neighborhood want to speak out even though some in the neighborhood knows who did it.

 

am I selfish?....no I just lost touch with humanity . 

Edited by MTARegional Bus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.