Why are the Central Park West stations so deep?

[B35 via Church]

Reliability generally isn't a problem on the M10 (well, ever since they cut it back from MSG anyway)....

The problem that still persists is that it's slow as hell; When you have double decker buses passing you, that's not good.... I remember saying the exact words "come the f**k on, tour buses are passing us" several times while on the M10 - and this is w/o much traffic along CPW too.... Like the b/o's are told to crawl the route or something.....

 

As far as the depth of the CPW stations, I'd be the wrong person to ask; as I don't find them all too deep..... Seems like any other (average) underground station....

[Daniel The Cool]

Reliability generally isn't a problem on the M10 (well, ever since they cut it back from MSG anyway)....

The problem that still persists is that it's slow as hell; When you have double decker buses passing you, that's not good.... I remember saying the exact words "come the f**k on, tour buses are passing us" several times while on the M10 - and this is w/o much traffic along CPW too.... Like the b/o's are told to crawl the route or something.....

 

As far as the depth of the CPW stations, I'd be the wrong person to ask; as I don't find them all too deep..... Seems like any other (average) underground station....

 

They're not too deep at all. I lived in that area for over 15 years. Compare to other stations in the system, they're nothing at all. Idk why for it to have 2 levels it has to be deep when it really isn't. 

[MTA Dude]

If you thought Central Park West northbound stations were bad, wait 'til you try Lexington Avenue/63 Street.

 

Yup. Had to go there on January 9th. It was damn deep. And I've seen most of them before, not that deep. I belive it is fare control with subway on same level, and next level. Same depth as Forest Hills. Ain't deep at all.

 

P.S. Have you seen Lex-63rd? That long escalater kinda freaks me out...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Reliability generally isn't a problem on the M10 (well, ever since they cut it back from MSG anyway)....

The problem that still persists is that it's slow as hell; When you have double decker buses passing you, that's not good.... I remember saying the exact words "come the f**k on, tour buses are passing us" several times while on the M10 - and this is w/o much traffic along CPW too.... Like the b/o's are told to crawl the route or something.....

 

As far as the depth of the CPW stations, I'd be the wrong person to ask; as I don't find them all too deep..... Seems like any other (average) underground station....

The M10 is reliable during the week, but less so on weekends.  On weekends I've seen then bunch up at times, but during the week they are reliable, but as you said SLOW...  As for the Central Park stations, I usually find myself getting off Southbound for whatever reason, which means more stairs to get to street level.

 

Yup. Had to go there on January 9th. It was damn deep. And I've seen most of them before, not that deep. I belive it is fare control with subway on same level, and next level. Same depth as Forest Hills. Ain't deep at all.

 

P.S. Have you seen Lex-63rd? That long escalater kinda freaks me out...

The Lex and 63rd station is deep and the escalator is usually broken. Have used that station numerous times and it's a PITA.  Not only that but that station could use a makeover.

[MTA Dude]

The Lex and 63rd station is deep and the escalator is usually broken. Have used that station numerous times and it's a PITA.  Not only that but that station could use a makeover.

 

Wait, you're saying that I was lucky that the elevator and escalators were all fully functional?

 

BTW that is exactly what they are doing. They are renovating part of the station for SAS.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Wait, you're saying that I was lucky that the elevator and escalators were all fully functional?

 

BTW that is exactly what they are doing. They are renovating part of the station for SAS.

Yes you were because for years those escalators have been a nightmare with many people having to walk up on a regular basis because they were broken.  So many people complained that the had to address the problem.  As usual it takes them FOREVER to do so, but hopefully the escalator will be more functional and won't burn out too fast.

[bobtehpanda]

Kind of strange that they have done massive escalator and elevator improvements at the Columbus Circle station, but can't do it along the Central Park West stations.

 

Now that makes sense, but wouldn't they be required to make the station complaint to disability standards whenever another renovation is done?

 

Columbus Circle just has a lot more room to work with. 81-AMNH has on one side a park that is treasured by a lot of NIMBYs and rich folk, and the museum crowd is also fairly vocal as well.

 

Interesting and disturbing... 

 

Keep in mind that the ADA never came with any sort of federal funding. If they had mandated it, we'd be much deeper down the debt hole at this point.

[Art Vandelay]

I was actually thinking about ADA access for CPW stations (especially 81) yesterday. They really are one of the few sets of stations which could reasonably be made compliant with a single elevator. what would need to be done is adding a fare control to the lower level. At 72, 96 and 103, an elevator could be installed at the abandoned exit, (71, 95, and either 102 or 104th respectively.) Connecting the street to the mezzanine/uptown platform to the old lower level stairway landing, which would also contain a new fare control barrier. At 86th you wo. uld have to work around an existing in use entrance. I'd use 86th, as it has the bus connection, and is the largest and busiest. Regardless, I think you could put in an elevator to the north of 86th street connecting Both platforms directly to the street. 81st, While the most important, is also the easiest. The Museum ramp just needs to be properly connected to the sidewalk to make the uptown platform accessible. After that, all you need is to put in an elevator between the two levels, and there is a closed stair between the two levels which would mean relatively minimal excavation for such a project. 

On a functional level, I think 81 and 86 should be pushed for now. Both stations are quite busy and should be accessible. 72 and 96 aren't ghost towns either. 103 is substantially harder to justify based on ridership, however it probably has the greatest potential to grow. 

I have had HORRIBLE experiences on the M10, however when I regularly rode it, the southern terminals were Battery Park City and Abingdon Square. 

[bobtehpanda]

81st, While the most important, is also the easiest. The Museum ramp just needs to be properly connected to the sidewalk to make the uptown platform accessible. After that, all you need is to put in an elevator between the two levels, and there is a closed stair between the two levels which would mean relatively minimal excavation for such a project. . 

 

That's actually not true at all. There's a length limit for how long an ADA-accessible ramp can be, so that wheelchair-bound people don't end up speeding into the tracks. It's why the Port Authority-Times Sq passageway is not accessible.

 

The easiest way to make the station accessible would be through the museum, since the museum is already accessible, but the odds of that happening are zero.

[Kamen Rider]

If the person in question can make it over to the IRT, several of the stations on Broadway are ADA.

[46Dover]

I'll tell you what though, I like that section of uptown ride on the or express between 103 and 110 (where it dives down to the lower level). Engineering genius at its best

[Art Vandelay]

I am aware of the landings, but those would not be particularly hard to put in. (That said, regardless of ADA compliance technicalities, such a ramp would be useful for wheelchairs even without them.) 

The closest ADA compliant stations to 81/CPW and 86/CPW are 72/Broadway and 96/Broadway. Not particularly useful for the mobility impaired. 

[Sparen of Iria]

That's actually not true at all. There's a length limit for how long an ADA-accessible ramp can be, so that wheelchair-bound people don't end up speeding into the tracks. It's why the Port Authority-Times Sq passageway is not accessible.

 

The easiest way to make the station accessible would be through the museum, since the museum is already accessible, but the odds of that happening are zero.

That Port Authority - Times Square ramp is far too steep for normal people too. You have to pick up your suitcases sometimes because they roll too fast.

[B35 via Church]

That Port Authority - Times Square ramp is far too steep for normal people too. You have to pick up your suitcases sometimes because they roll too fast.

Don't remind me.... I was this close of being hit by a rolling bookbag... shit would've taken someone out for sure.....

 

What happened was, the 3 jerks (2 men, 1 woman) that were running down the ramp were having a race to see who can get to those first set of stairs (on the left side there) for the ..... The girl ended up falling, but it wasn't her bookbag that almost hit me... It apparently was the bookbag of one of the 2 guys that stopped to aid her.... In other words, in going back to her rescue, he just let the bag keep rolling....

 

The odd thing was (and I should have never done it, looking back at it), just as the was about to close the doors & pull off, this other Asian kid & I stood by the door so this older couple could board.... Apparently, that gave those same 3 jerks just enough time to come up behind em & board..... The look I gave one of those guys had him apologizing like it was going out of style... I'm not one to lecture random strangers because I hate the general public, but I told him that y'alls little stunt could have severely injured someone coming up that ramp.... They appeared to be older college kids; like mid 20's or so.....

[BronxBombers]

I'll tell you what though, I like that section of uptown ride on the or express between 103 and 110 (where it dives down to the lower level). Engineering genius at its best

 

That ramp part is the best part of the CPW express... Idk why it is just awesome.

[Wallyhorse]

Yup. Had to go there on January 9th. It was damn deep. And I've seen most of them before, not that deep. I belive it is fare control with subway on same level, and next level. Same depth as Forest Hills. Ain't deep at all.

 

P.S. Have you seen Lex-63rd? That long escalater kinda freaks me out...

I've been in that station quite a few times (Lex/63rd) and never considered it to be that deep myself.

 

For some reason, Lex/53rd seems to be deeper than Lex 63rd (even if that isn't actually the case).

[46Dover]

Isn't the Lexington Ave Subway situated the same way, only the Locals are upstairs and express runs on the lower level?

[CenSin]

Isn't the Lexington Ave Subway situated the same way, only the Locals are upstairs and express runs on the lower level?

Lexington Avenue is a narrow avenue if you've ever been on it. When they built it, they had only the choice of building 2 levels for 4 tracks. And as to where the local tracks should be, the decision was easy: build the local tracks on the upper level so the stations wouldn't be so deep. Central Park West stations had one more restriction—no platforms on the park side, and hence the double-decked structure with stacked platforms. But I'm still under the impression that even Central Park West could have been made like the Lexington Avenue line without disturbing the park since it's much wider than Lexington Avenue. The real reason could be as simple as not wanting to build a mezzanine level since the Lexington Avenue-style layout would necessitate a mezzanine to avoid building on the park side.

[Wallyhorse]

Lexington Avenue is a narrow avenue if you've ever been on it. When they built it, they had only the choice of building 2 levels for 4 tracks. And as to where the local tracks should be, the decision was easy: build the local tracks on the upper level so the stations wouldn't be so deep. Central Park West stations had one more restriction—no platforms on the park side, and hence the double-decked structure with stacked platforms. But I'm still under the impression that even Central Park West could have been made like the Lexington Avenue line without disturbing the park since it's much wider than Lexington Avenue. The real reason could be as simple as not wanting to build a mezzanine level since the Lexington Avenue-style layout would necessitate a mezzanine to avoid building on the park side.

And also, as originally built, the only express station between Grand Central and 125th Street was 86th Street, which it was for the first 40+ years of its existence.  It was only when 59th Street became a much bigger shopping district coupled with the transfers to the Broadway Line that 59th was made into an express stop.

[CenSin]

As with other reasons for transit changes, shoppers—much like Colombia University or the Domino Sugar Factory you speak so fondly of—are just a drop in the proverbial bucket. Rather than shopping, the simple fact that crowds were overwhelming the because of the transfer from the Broadway routes was enough reason to make the change. Keep in mind that while the station was built with the transfer and this conversion in mind, it was also contingent on the creation of the 59 Street tunnel; had the BMT not followed through on plans to build the tunnel, there would be no crowds and no conversion.

[Wallyhorse]

Oh I'm sure the was a big issue, but remember, you only had Bloomingdales and Woolworths there for many years (Alexander's was not that big a store until later on and Woolworth's flagship store as I remember was always 86th and 3rd).  It was only when that area grew after World War II, coupled with the fact you already had the transfer to the Queens line in place as I understand it they needed to make it an express stop, which if the planners knew better would have been built into for in the first place they likely would have included shells for.

We may eventually need to see this done with 51st Street (possibly with an express station actually running from 51st-53rd Street) to have a similar connection from the / to the as well as the .

[CenSin]

Oh I'm sure the was a big issue, but remember, you only had Bloomingdales and Woolworths there for many years (Alexander's was not that big a store until later on and Woolworth's flagship store as I remember was always 86th and 3rd).  It was only when that area grew after World War II, coupled with the fact you already had the transfer to the Queens line in place as I understand it they needed to make it an express stop, which if the planners knew better would have been built into for in the first place they likely would have included shells for.

In other old news, the Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue station was renovated partly due to my presence. As an important member of the Coney Island community with a strong influence on what goes on in the area, I believe my larger-than-life existence swayed the MTA to dedicate funding and manpower to the renovation of the station and is worth mentioning as well. /s

 

 

We may eventually need to see this done with 51st Street (possibly with an express station actually running from 51st-53rd Street) to have a similar connection from the / to the as well as the .

This, I'm in agreement with. In fact, it should already be an express station. The 59 Street tunnel gets shut down for construction too often for it to be the only link to the Lexington Avenue express.

[MysteriousBtrain]

We may eventually need to see this done with 51st Street (possibly with an express station actually running from 51st-53rd Street) to have a similar connection from the / to the as well as the .

 

 

This, I'm in agreement with. In fact, it should already be an express station. The 59 Street tunnel gets shut down for construction too often for it to be the only link to the Lexington Avenue express.

This happens, and the Lexington line gets COMPLETELY screwed. The Lex is already overcrowded and slow as hell. No need for an express stop between 2 express stops (3 express/local stops in a row) on Lex at all. 

Acting like you can't get off at 59 Street to take the to 51 street for the or even use the out of system transfer for 63 Street on the . SMH....

[CenSin]

Acting like you can't get off at 59 Street to take the to 51 street for the or even use the out of system transfer for 63 Street on the . SMH....

I'd like you to try that transfer at Lexington Avenue/63 Street.

 

I took this picture today.

 

This happens, and the Lexington line gets COMPLETELY screwed. The Lex is already overcrowded and slow as hell. No need for an express stop between 2 express stops (3 express/local stops in a row) on Lex at all.

No it isn't. Acting like 1 more stop is the end of the world. In fact, if people were on the right train in the first place, there'd be less transferring across the platform at Grand Central–42 Street. Reducing amount of transfers people have to make also reduces dwell time in the stations due to multiple transfers.

[MysteriousBtrain]

I'd like you to try that transfer at Lexington Avenue/63 Street.

 

I took this picture today.

 

No it isn't. Acting like 1 more stop is the end of the world. In fact, if people were on the right train in the first place, there'd be less transferring across the platform at Grand Central–42 Street. Reducing amount of transfers people have to make also reduces dwell time in the stations due to multiple transfers.

1. What does the elevator have to do with transfering to the Lex? 59 Street is not ADA accessable.

2. Yes, a stop won't kill a line, but it also depends on where the stop is. That's almost like saying turn 14 Street into an express station on 6 Avenue so the and can connect to the . It would be a nice connection, but it would defeat the purpose of the 6 Avenue express.

Of course, this might be a bad example because the and have more express stops than the and , but my point is, the way Lex is set up, if 51 Street became an express stop, it would slow down the express, and 51 Street is not that popular to even need express service.