R211 Discussion Thread

[R179 8258]

25 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Several times it has been said here that the "B" cannot be maintained at CCYD due to lack of barn space.  CIYD will still have to maintain that fleet.  It will be a good way to introduce the maintenance workers in the barn @ CIYD to learn how to maintain the R211's and the needed CBTC.  Transit can easily set up a yard track or 2 with the required CBTC in order to test the cars when needed.

What i think he was referring to what of the  and the  are based out of Concourse. They would share the fleets (R160s ,R211 whatever they receive ) so does it really matter about the barn track? if they’re sharing the fleet. Like for example Jamaica Yard before they became 100% 160s. They were R46s and R160s and the R46 held up nicely before being phased out. Would it really be a problem if the  &  are sharing the fleet and only have 3 Barn tracks ? 

[subwaycommuter1983]

2 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

The  will have to be transferred operations from CI to the Concourse in order for that line to be fully NTT. 

Not necessarily. 

Concourse doesn't have room to accommodate both lines. 

Yes, a few B trains are stored in Concourse, while a few D trains are stored in Coney Island. But Concourse can only fully accommodate the D.

Once the B gets the r211s (or r160's), The Q can use them during the weekends, since it's the only line besides the R that does get rerouted via 6th Avenue. 

As for Astoria riders who are still acting like spoiled brats for not having the r160's, well they will have to wait for option order 2 to get some of the r160s back.

[subwaycommuter1983]

3 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by subwaycommuter1983

[subwaycommuter1983]

3 hours ago, FLX9304 said:

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by subwaycommuter1983

[Kamen Rider]

On 1/29/2023 at 3:05 PM, R179 8258 said:

What i think he was referring to what of the  and the  are based out of Concourse. They would share the fleets (R160s ,R211 whatever they receive ) so does it really matter about the barn track? if they’re sharing the fleet. Like for example Jamaica Yard before they became 100% 160s. They were R46s and R160s and the R46 held up nicely before being phased out. Would it really be a problem if the  &  are sharing the fleet and only have 3 Barn tracks ? 

The B is NOT based out of Concourse....

 

FOR 

A

REASON

 

The Barn at Concourse can hold 3 trains. the amount of trains the barn can process is less than the total number of trains concourse can store. which is why the B and 4 lay up there, but nether are based there. Same as the M can lay up in Jamaica Yard, but it's based at ENY. 

 

Concourse barn can process enough trains on a regular basis to keep the D, and ONLY the D, supplied with trains. the D requires about 30 trains in the AM rush. the B requires another 25 on top of that. 55 trains, plus spairs, is outside the barn's capacity to handle without a capital investment to expand it. 

 

Coney Island, whose inspection barn has seven tracks, while storing trains for basically every B division line in south Brooklyn, only actually cares for the trains to the B, N/W, Q and the franklin shuttle. Logically and logistically, it would be simpler to assign 211s to CIY for B service and to try to squeeze them all into Concourse. 

[FLX9304]

51 minutes ago, Kamen Rider said:

The B is NOT based out of Concourse....

 

FOR 

A

REASON

 

The Barn at Concourse can hold 3 trains. the amount of trains the barn can process is less than the total number of trains concourse can store. which is why the B and 4 lay up there, but nether are based there. Same as the M can lay up in Jamaica Yard, but it's based at ENY. 

 

Concourse barn can process enough trains on a regular basis to keep the D, and ONLY the D, supplied with trains. the D requires about 30 trains in the AM rush. the B requires another 25 on top of that. 55 trains, plus spairs, is outside the barn's capacity to handle without a capital investment to expand it. 

 

Coney Island, whose inspection barn has seven tracks, while storing trains for basically every B division line in south Brooklyn, only actually cares for the trains to the B, N/W, Q and the franklin shuttle. Logically and logistically, it would be simpler to assign 211s to CIY for B service and to try to squeeze them all into Concourse. 

1. Not all  trains are stored in the Jamaica Yard. Most trains leave before taking it to Fresh Pond Yard. Trains only go to ENY Yard only for washing and heavy maintenance. 
 

2. You say that Coney Island actually cares for the  &  lines, but there are also storage yards as in Avenue X for some  trains and CI has some  trains stored there as well. When the R68s gets sent to CI, there will be enough space in the Concourse Yard to store enough R211s (opt 1) for the  
 

[RandomRider0101]

16 minutes ago, FLX9304 said:

1. Not all  trains are stored in the Jamaica Yard. Most trains leave before taking it to Fresh Pond Yard. Trains only go to ENY Yard only for washing and heavy maintenance. 
 

2. You say that Coney Island actually cares for the  &  lines, but there are also storage yards as in Avenue X for some  trains and CI has some  trains stored there as well. When the R68s gets sent to CI, there will be enough space in the Concourse Yard to store enough R211s (opt 1) for the  
 

Kamen never said that all  trains are stored in Jamaica. She simply said that they can be layed up there, which they are occasionally since the line runs on Queens Blvd during weekdays.

They are mainly laid up at Fresh Pond yard since that is their home yard, as well as East NY yard. But since Fresh Pond doesn't have a car wash & whatnot, all washing & heavy maintenance is done at East NY; which means the line is technically based out of East NY yard.

Coney Island yard does store trains from the & lines, but they are only responsible for the & Franklin  when it comes to inspections & maintenance. Just as Concourse sometimes stores the fleet on layup, but is only responsible for inspecting & maintaining the fleet; all of this Kamen noted in her post if you read it properly.

 

 

 

[Kamen Rider]

seriously… what’s it take for a girl to get listened to..? When do I get my employee account badge? Is that what it takes for my queer behind to get taken seriously around here?

To put this in simple terms: train cars and train lines are assigned to specific inspection and maintenance shops.

the number of lines and trains is decided by how many trains can be processed in a given amount of time in the inspection shop to meet the line’s daily needs plus spare factors.
 

Concourse shop is the smallest in service, with only 3 bays, each of which can hold 1 train Full length train.

 

East New York and Jamaica can both hold 8 trains.

Coney Island can hold 7.

 

these yards can easily deal with more than one line at a time.

Concourse, with only three tracks, can not. So it doesn’t matter how many storage tracks a yard has, but it’s shop tracks decide what line is based where.

 

if the B were made a concourse based line along with the D, it would overwhelm the people working in the barn. The only way to make that change is to spend the money to build a bigger shop building.

[RTOMan]

4 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

seriously… what’s it take for a girl to get listened to..? When do I get my employee account badge? Is that what it takes for my queer behind to get taken seriously around here?

To put this in simple terms: train cars and train lines are assigned to specific inspection and maintenance shops.

the number of lines and trains is decided by how many trains can be processed in a given amount of time in the inspection shop to meet the line’s daily needs plus spare factors.
 

Concourse shop is the smallest in service, with only 3 bays, each of which can hold 1 train Full length train.

 

East New York and Jamaica can both hold 8 trains.

Coney Island can hold 7.

 

these yards can easily deal with more than one line at a time.

Concourse, with only three tracks, can not. So it doesn’t matter how many storage tracks a yard has, but it’s shop tracks decide what line is based where.

 

if the B were made a concourse based line along with the D, it would overwhelm the people working in the barn. The only way to make that change is to spend the money to build a bigger shop building.

Karen pay some of these Buffs No mind....

Some of them think they know everything and don't know anything your insight is very knowledgeable...

As a fellow transit worker and buff i salute you keep up the good work don't lets these jealous folks get you down..

Edited January 31, 2023 by RTOMan

[RandomRider0101]

9 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

seriously… what’s it take for a girl to get listened to..? When do I get my employee account badge? Is that what it takes for my queer behind to get taken seriously around here?

To put this in simple terms: train cars and train lines are assigned to specific inspection and maintenance shops.

the number of lines and trains is decided by how many trains can be processed in a given amount of time in the inspection shop to meet the line’s daily needs plus spare factors.
 

Concourse shop is the smallest in service, with only 3 bays, each of which can hold 1 train Full length train.

 

East New York and Jamaica can both hold 8 trains.

Coney Island can hold 7.

 

these yards can easily deal with more than one line at a time.

Concourse, with only three tracks, can not. So it doesn’t matter how many storage tracks a yard has, but it’s shop tracks decide what line is based where.

 

if the B were made a concourse based line along with the D, it would overwhelm the people working in the barn. The only way to make that change is to spend the money to build a bigger shop building.

I'm very sorry you have to deal with this stuff. It must be pretty frustrating to have buffs and even other employees talk to you like you don't know much.

Sure everyone won't know every single thing at one time, but as an employee you provide what you know. And I appreciate any insight you're able to provide here, as well as other employees on this site.

Hope this doesn't discourage you at any point and you can continue to spread your knowledge amongst us posters who are willing to listen and hear you out .

[T to Dyre Avenue]

12 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

seriously… what’s it take for a girl to get listened to..? When do I get my employee account badge? Is that what it takes for my queer behind to get taken seriously around here?

To put this in simple terms: train cars and train lines are assigned to specific inspection and maintenance shops.

the number of lines and trains is decided by how many trains can be processed in a given amount of time in the inspection shop to meet the line’s daily needs plus spare factors.
 

Concourse shop is the smallest in service, with only 3 bays, each of which can hold 1 train Full length train.

 

East New York and Jamaica can both hold 8 trains.

Coney Island can hold 7.

 

these yards can easily deal with more than one line at a time.

Concourse, with only three tracks, can not. So it doesn’t matter how many storage tracks a yard has, but it’s shop tracks decide what line is based where.

 

if the B were made a concourse based line along with the D, it would overwhelm the people working in the barn. The only way to make that change is to spend the money to build a bigger shop building.

Kamen, thank you for your insight on why the shops can only base so many lines in the B Division. It’s most unfortunate that there are buffs who are acting like they know better, because they don’t. Even walking over the yard on the Bedford Park Blvd bridge many times, I could see clearly that Concourse had a very small shop. And I can’t see the bigwigs spending money any time soon on a new, larger shop on the other side of Bedford Park Blvd in order to service more than one line.

Edited January 31, 2023 by T to Dyre Avenue

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

16 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

seriously… what’s it take for a girl to get listened to..? When do I get my employee account badge? Is that what it takes for my queer behind to get taken seriously around here?

To put this in simple terms: train cars and train lines are assigned to specific inspection and maintenance shops.

the number of lines and trains is decided by how many trains can be processed in a given amount of time in the inspection shop to meet the line’s daily needs plus spare factors.
 

Concourse shop is the smallest in service, with only 3 bays, each of which can hold 1 train Full length train.

 

East New York and Jamaica can both hold 8 trains.

Coney Island can hold 7.

 

these yards can easily deal with more than one line at a time.

Concourse, with only three tracks, can not. So it doesn’t matter how many storage tracks a yard has, but it’s shop tracks decide what line is based where.

 

if the B were made a concourse based line along with the D, it would overwhelm the people working in the barn. The only way to make that change is to spend the money to build a bigger shop building.

Actually thank you for this clarification; I'd never rlly considered before that there can be a distinction between where cars are held vs where they're cared for.

[1998NewFlyer]

Can we please get back to r211 talk .... thank you

[LGA Link N Train]

9 minutes ago, 1998NewFlyer said:

Can we please get back to r211 talk .... thank you

TBF, the reason Concourse was brought up was because of the R-211's. We know the base order (sans the SIR cars) and a portion of Option 1 are meant for 8th Avenue CBTC on the and . Given that 6th Avenue is on the table for CBTC Upgrades, and Trains will most certainly be rerouted via 8th Avenue from time to time. I'll let you figure out the rest.

[darkstar8983]

I think the full assignment of all cars if the R211 order doesn’t get 8-car trains, should be:

500 cars for the  (and Rockaway ), including spares - 15 cars for the  and 485 cars for the  (390 cars to make service and 95 cars as spares)

240 cars for the  (180 cars to make service + 60 spares)

370 cars for the  (290 cars to make service and 80

cars as spares)

320 cars for the  (250 cars to make service and 70

cars as spares). 
** 1430 cars total so far*
 

75 SIR cars = 1505 cars total so far. - 107 cars still available to supplement fleet.

 

Notice that the R179s are not on this list for the  Since in this case, the R179s can join Jamaica (10-car trains to make the 13 trains needed for the , while it’s R160s buff up the spare factor for the  by 2 trains each; 8-car R179s go to the  and all 8-car R160s are only for the ). Additional Canarsie CBTC service can be provided by adding R160A cars 8377-8408 or 9943-9974 to the  fleet and leaving all remaining R160As for the . The  would use any spares not used in  service to supplement the R179s. 
 

But if the  doesn’t yet get 10-car units, and the  each give up one train as a spare (assuming all 1600+ cars are ordered) don’t be surprised if 6 Av CBTC can be completed with just this order of cars since then the  could be fully covered with NTT trains for 6 Av reroutes, unfortunately leaving the  as the only route capable of running the R68s

[U-BahnNYC]

6 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

I think the full assignment of all cars if the R211 order doesn’t get 8-car trains, should be:

500 cars for the  (and Rockaway ), including spares - 15 cars for the  and 485 cars for the  (390 cars to make service and 95 cars as spares)

240 cars for the  (180 cars to make service + 60 spares)

370 cars for the  (290 cars to make service and 80

cars as spares)

320 cars for the  (250 cars to make service and 70

cars as spares). 
** 1430 cars total so far*
 

75 SIR cars = 1505 cars total so far. - 107 cars still available to supplement fleet.

 

Notice that the R179s are not on this list for the  Since in this case, the R179s can join Jamaica (10-car trains to make the 13 trains needed for the , while it’s R160s buff up the spare factor for the  by 2 trains each; 8-car R179s go to the  and all 8-car R160s are only for the ). Additional Canarsie CBTC service can be provided by adding R160A cars 8377-8408 or 9943-9974 to the  fleet and leaving all remaining R160As for the . The  would use any spares not used in  service to supplement the R179s. 
 

But if the  doesn’t yet get 10-car units, and the  each give up one train as a spare (assuming all 1600+ cars are ordered) don’t be surprised if 6 Av CBTC can be completed with just this order of cars since then the  could be fully covered with NTT trains for 6 Av reroutes, unfortunately leaving the  as the only route capable of running the R68s

Seems pretty plausible. 

We know the and will definitely get the base order plus most of option 1. The remainder of option 1 very likely will go to either the or the since those lines use 8Av a lot, as will all of option 2. 

I just don't see the 5-car R160s returning to Coney Island as long as any R46/R68 remain on the , largely for fleet simplification at the Yards. It's much easier for Jamaica to remain 100% R160, Concourse to become all R211 and have Coney Island be a mix of R68 / R211. 

So unless more R211s are ordered to replace the R68, the entire  can be R211 once all options are delivered. 

This, of course, gets complicated by the  because ideally the  remains 5-car R160s from Jamaica, or as you point out, give Jamaica the 5-car R179s from Pitkin solely for running on the . 

[R32 3838]

23 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

I think the full assignment of all cars if the R211 order doesn’t get 8-car trains, should be:

500 cars for the  (and Rockaway ), including spares - 15 cars for the  and 485 cars for the  (390 cars to make service and 95 cars as spares)

240 cars for the  (180 cars to make service + 60 spares)

370 cars for the  (290 cars to make service and 80

cars as spares)

320 cars for the  (250 cars to make service and 70

cars as spares). 
** 1430 cars total so far*
 

75 SIR cars = 1505 cars total so far. - 107 cars still available to supplement fleet.

 

Notice that the R179s are not on this list for the  Since in this case, the R179s can join Jamaica (10-car trains to make the 13 trains needed for the , while it’s R160s buff up the spare factor for the  by 2 trains each; 8-car R179s go to the  and all 8-car R160s are only for the ). Additional Canarsie CBTC service can be provided by adding R160A cars 8377-8408 or 9943-9974 to the  fleet and leaving all remaining R160As for the . The  would use any spares not used in  service to supplement the R179s. 
 

But if the  doesn’t yet get 10-car units, and the  each give up one train as a spare (assuming all 1600+ cars are ordered) don’t be surprised if 6 Av CBTC can be completed with just this order of cars since then the  could be fully covered with NTT trains for 6 Av reroutes, unfortunately leaving the  as the only route capable of running the R68s

For the last time, Jamaica is NOT getting R179s. The R179s will stay where they are. A chunk of R160s MIGHT not stay at Jamaica. The R179s are also for 8th ave CBTC and also can run on the once the CBTC kits are installed on the ENY R179s.

 

You clearly don't get it, You clearly made these assignments so Coney island could get the R211s. R179s at Jamaica would be a complete waste and the fact that 207th could house the 10 car units with the a small fleet of option order I R211s would make more sense while the 8 car units could go to ENY for expanded service. The could get R160s from Jamaica while Jamaica gets a chunk of R211s which would make more sense regarless if they are open gangway or not.

 

3 minutes ago, U-BahnNYC said:

Seems pretty plausible. 

We know the and will definitely get the base order plus most of option 1. The remainder of option 1 very likely will go to either the or the since those lines use 8Av a lot, as will all of option 2. 

I just don't see the 5-car R160s returning to Coney Island as long as any R46/R68 remain on the , largely for fleet simplification at the Yards. It's much easier for Jamaica to remain 100% R160, Concourse to become all R211 and have Coney Island be a mix of R68 / R211. 

So unless more R211s are ordered to replace the R68, the entire  can be R211 once all options are delivered. 

This, of course, gets complicated by the  because ideally the  remains 5-car R160s from Jamaica, or as you point out, give Jamaica the 5-car R179s from Pitkin solely for running on the . 

It makes more sense for Jamaica to get a piece R211s due to the fact they have bigger doors and would benefit the   and  .  Subway car swaps happen all the time and this would be no different.  People just want them at Coney Island for political reasons. The doesn't need R211s, It's a part time line. You're better off giving the the R160s since they already between 13-18 years old

 

Also for the R179s, It's better off just having them at 207th and ENY, It makes more things simple since both yards already have parts and etc.

 

Plus if the cars are open gangway, Why in the hell would anyone would want them in the southern BMT which has way less ridership than the and

[Kamen Rider]

Division of car equipment likes uniformity. If they could have it so that a shop has only 1 type of train, they would do it that way. unfortunately life doesn't like to play ball like that.  

[Nova Fly Guy]

Hearing from RTO that Jamaica will be after Pitkin as the R160 are the favorites for CCYD. The ,  will share the R179/211A as the 211T are for  operators only currently.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Nova Fly Guy

[Vulturious]

42 minutes ago, Nova Fly Guy said:

Hearing from RTO that Jamaica will be after Pitkin as the R160 are the favorites for CCYD. The ,  will share the R179/211A as the 211T are for  operators only currently.

Interesting, though not surprising. I assume whatever Concourse can't hold, those R160's there are will go to CIY for the  leaving whatever else up for grabs for the ? Although, now that I think about it, this raises other questions like:

• Would the  at that point be getting R211's as well or would it be sticking with the R160's going back to being based out of CIY?
• What about the 8 car R179's on the ?

I would ask other questions, but you probably don't have all the answers. I would've thought the R211T pilot would be going to Jamaica since they have quite the high ridership, but it does make sense given where the R211's at the moment are going to be running along. 

[RTOMan]

I know a TSS whos working with the open gangway trains and ill say this the riding public will like em...

From what I'm seeing as a Train Operator..

Ugh I'm hoping i do not go BIE or have to isolate a car,yes we can isolate a car with the open gangway trains...

[darkstar8983]

13 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

For the last time, Jamaica is NOT getting R179s. The R179s will stay where they are. A chunk of R160s MIGHT not stay at Jamaica. The R179s are also for 8th ave CBTC and also can run on the once the CBTC kits are installed on the ENY R179s.

 

You clearly don't get it, You clearly made these assignments so Coney island could get the R211s. R179s at Jamaica would be a complete waste and the fact that 207th could house the 10 car units with the a small fleet of option order I R211s would make more sense while the 8 car units could go to ENY for expanded service. The could get R160s from Jamaica while Jamaica gets a chunk of R211s which would make more sense regarless if they are open gangway or not.

 

It makes more sense for Jamaica to get a piece R211s due to the fact they have bigger doors and would benefit the   and  .  Subway car swaps happen all the time and this would be no different.  People just want them at Coney Island for political reasons. The doesn't need R211s, It's a part time line. You're better off giving the the R160s since they already between 13-18 years old

 

Also for the R179s, It's better off just having them at 207th and ENY, It makes more things simple since both yards already have parts and etc.

 

Plus if the cars are open gangway, Why in the hell would anyone would want them in the southern BMT which has way less ridership than the and

We can agree to disagree. I should have put a disclaimer that the assignments for the R211s and 10-car R160s can be more fluid. The point i was trying to make (and showing the math with just the R211 order was easier since I didn't take into account moving a single R160 out of Jamaica).

1. The  could go full length (10 cars) and the spare factor can be buffed without the need for 8-car R211s

2. With the 8-car units therefore not needed on the  there would be enough cars to provide thee ENY Lines and  with a good spare factor and just retrofitting a few more R160s with Canarsie CBTC for the  since thee R179s (8-cars) can fill in any gaps for the

3. And if there is a big rush to accelerate CBTC along the IND, it is possible to servic the affected lines (the) with just this R211 order and using the R160s + R179s onsite (provided no 8-car units and the full order exercised, minus full length   trains) and taking into account potentials for rerouted  trains.

Edited February 1, 2023 by darkstar8983

[T to Dyre Avenue]

17 hours ago, 1998NewFlyer said:

Can we please get back to r211 talk .... thank you

This is very much related to R211 talk. Yard shops have a major role to play with where lines and equipment are based. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by T to Dyre Avenue

[1998NewFlyer]

50 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

This is very much related to R211 talk. Yard shops have a major role to play with where lines and equipment are based. 

So Concourse's yard capacity and if it can hold the B fleet is related to the r211 how? 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

55 minutes ago, 1998NewFlyer said:

So Concourse's yard capacity and if it can hold the B fleet is related to the r211 how? 

Shop capacity has nothing to do with what lines are based (not necessarily stored) in which yards?

Edited February 1, 2023 by T to Dyre Avenue