R211 Discussion Thread

[Storm]

Just sayin', it was a dumb move to take the r160's off the

The R211a/t test will determine the outcome for open gangway.

If the order was 75% T and 25% A, all of the R211A cars should go to coney, while the T cars would be split 40% to jamaica and 35% to the  and  lines, bringing the R179's to the . 

 If the R211's would go to the , with both options exercised, then coney should get 90% of its R160's back. Not gonna lie, the r211's should go to the , but the r160's should go back to the  because of the LCD's.

[Storm]

Just now, Stormxx said:

Just sayin', it was a dumb move to take the r160's off the

The R211a/t test will determine the outcome for open gangway.

If the order was 75% T and 25% A, all of the R211A cars should go to coney, while the T cars would be split 40% to jamaica and 35% to the  and  lines, bringing the R179's to the . 

 If the R211's would go to the , with both options exercised, then coney should get 90% of its R160's back. Not gonna lie, the r211's should go to the , but the r160's should go back to the  because of the LCD's.

Agree with me on that? R160-  R211-

[Storm]

Oh cool! Hope to see the r211's on the  then...

[subwaycommuter1983]

2 hours ago, Stormxx said:

Breakdown: (Yards getting the r211's)

C.I  () at least 15-20%

Jamaica () 30-40%

ENY () 5% (only if option 2 is exercised)

Pitkin () 40%

207 st () 10-20%

 

I think that if CI does get the r211's or if CI gets back some of the r160's, it should go to the B/D (Concourse Yard should get them as well). This will allow the B/D to be rerouted through 8th Avenue whenever there is track work or any issues on 6th Avenue.

I find it stupid that the MTA excluded 6th Avenue line from getting CBTC.

[jon2305]

The R211's obvious arrival is to further support CBTC ready corridors. In this case the next installation of CBTC on the 8 Av line is a prime example of where these trains will end up. So I'll bank on the to be true primary subway lines to inherent the R211's.  I'll even through in the just for the sake of Queens Blvd being CBTC-equipped I'll exclude the for now seeing that is only 8-cars. Remember, this is just from the base order alone which is forecasted as 440 standard (R211A) cars. Now the "Option Order" for this fleet could put things in perceptive going forward with fleet expansion.  Only time will tell.

[Storm]

Well. The  will get the R68's then.

[R32 3838]

4 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

This Was said by that's why the B end of the cars are configured the way they are. Just look at how they there no seats and a hump on both sides.

 

A good chunk of those r160's are going back. And it wouldn't be a waste of time, CBTC Training isn't a waste of time. by the time the option order cars come in, it'll be time to swap those r160's back to ether CI or somewhere else.

 

From the way it looks like, Pitkin, Jamaica and Coney Island will get these cars ENY will get the 8 car units for the

 

5201-5480 is open as well, I could see them use 5201-5480 as well

they can use 5481-5664 once all the r46's are completely gone

 

I keep telling you guys, Jamaica will get a piece of this order.

 

open gangways is the obvious reason, are two lines that they're focused on getting those cars to. this is why I think Jamaica would get the r211T while the r211A's would be split between pitkin and coney (Base order) The could see the open gangway cars as well.

 

Also it's smart to make the 100% tech first vs. the CI lines because of upcoming CBTC plus if anything goes down on 8th ave, they can use 53rd st, (currently they can't now since its CBTC active now)

Edit (I ment 5201, not 5001) 

[GojiMet86]

Has the number of 8-car units been specified yet?

[553 Bridgeton]

11 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

For a minute, I thought the master control was set on the left side (given that I’m a lefty IRL, this would’ve been nice if I ever chose to be a T/O). But keeping it in the middle makes more sense. Now on the overall cab itself, it looks really nice, with the 2 screens (CBTC monitor). Also heard there’s a security camera in the cab but IDRK for sure. It’d be nice to catch foamers who like breaking the law, but I’m not sure how T/O’s would feel about it. 
 

Now on the overall design on the rest of the train, the FIND is a huge visual upgrade over that of the 160’s. The LED screen on the side of the Exterior looks a bit weird IMO given the large size of the text. I wonder how/if it’ll be used to describe reroutes/G.O.’s. The face of the train is kinda interesting as well. Reminds me of the facial designs of the Tube and that other train running on the Orange Line? over at the MBTA. 

Some R188s have cameras in the cab over the 2 screens 

[Storm]

If both options are exercised and the R211T test goes well, the order would be mostly open gangway. We could see C.I getting the all of the R211A's and their siemens and some alstom units coming back. If C.I were to get 70% of their r160's back, then we could see about 1,200/1,662 cars returning. That would be enough for the . 

Now for the , i think they should get about 400 cars of open gangway, and the r179's would be swapped out of Pitkin&207th st yard for service on the .

The  should get a lot of the r211T's. I'd say about 500 to be split. Plus, they'd also have 462 additional r160's to help out with service. Ridership is growing, and they REALLY need open gangways.

 

[Storm]

31 minutes ago, Stormxx said:

If both options are exercised and the R211T test goes well, the order would be mostly open gangway. We could see C.I getting the all of the R211A's and their siemens and some alstom units coming back. If C.I were to get 70% of their r160's back, then we could see about 1,200/1,662 cars returning. That would be enough for the . 

Now for the , i think they should get about 400 cars of open gangway, and the r179's would be swapped out of Pitkin&207th st yard for service on the .

The  should get a lot of the r211T's. I'd say about 500 to be split. Plus, they'd also have 462 additional r160's to help out with service. Ridership is growing, and they REALLY need open gangways.

 

Edit: 800/1,662

[Mysterious2train]

12 hours ago, GojiMet86 said:

Has the number of 8-car units been specified yet?

Indirectly, yes. In the Oct 2019 board and committee meetings the MTA board approved awarding a contract to Thales to install CBTC equipment onboard the R211s. The contract stated that the 2nd R211 option order of 437 cars would be in 89 4-car and 5-car sets. That works out to 405 cars in sets of 5 (81 sets, 40.5 full trains) and 32 cars in sets of 4 (8 sets, 4 full trains).

Edited January 20, 2021 by Mysterious2train

[Storm]

just to be clear, which lines will get the r211's and r160's and r68's

[Metro CSW]

22 minutes ago, Stormxx said:

just to be clear, which lines will get the r211's and r160's and r68's

R211s: (A)(C)(E)(N)(Q)(R)(W)(F)(G) i would think if it's Pitkin (Base), Coney Island/Jamaica (Op 1) and Coney Island/Pitkin or Jamaica (Op 2+the 4-car sets) because of the chances of the CBTC installation to be processed on a faction of those lines and needed fleet expansions. I'm not gonna rule out Concourse as a contenter but anything can happen.

Jamaica can keep 70% of their R160s, the other can be moved to Coney Island and/or (oddly enough) Concourse, maybe even 207th but that's almost weird to me, i guess. The R68/68As can stay where are or be moved before their replacements are planned like the 46s did.

[Storm]

3 minutes ago, Metro CSW said:

R211s: (A)(C)(E)(N)(Q)(R)(W)(F)(G) i would think if it's Pitkin (Base), Coney Island/Jamaica (Op 1) and Coney Island/Pitkin or Jamaica (Op 2+the 4-car sets) because of the chances of the CBTC installation to be processed on a faction of those lines and needed fleet expansions. I'm not gonna rule out Concourse as a contenter but anything can happen.

Jamaica can keep 70% of their R160s, the other can be moved to Coney Island and/or (oddly enough) Concourse, maybe even 207th but that's almost weird to me, i guess. The R68/68As can stay where are or be moved before their replacements are planned like the 46s did.

I think the  will get the r179's from pitkin

[subwaycommuter1983]

53 minutes ago, Metro CSW said:

R211s: (A)(C)(E)(N)(Q)(R)(W)(F)(G) i would think if it's Pitkin (Base), Coney Island/Jamaica (Op 1) and Coney Island/Pitkin or Jamaica (Op 2+the 4-car sets) because of the chances of the CBTC installation to be processed on a faction of those lines and needed fleet expansions. I'm not gonna rule out Concourse as a contenter but anything can happen.

Jamaica can keep 70% of their R160s, the other can be moved to Coney Island and/or (oddly enough) Concourse, maybe even 207th but that's almost weird to me, i guess. The R68/68As can stay where are or be moved before their replacements are planned like the 46s did.

In my opinion, the r68's should all be at CI. The B can still keep at least some of the r68's, since the B is a part time line and usually gets suspended whenever there's an issue. On the other hand, Concourse should get NTT's whether it's the r211's or the r160's, since the D is a 24/7 line. That way the D can easily be rerouted through 8th Avenue whenever there is weekend track work or any issues on the 6th Avenue line.

[Storm]

"In my opinion, the r68's should all be at CI. The B can still keep at least some of the r68's, since the B is a part time line and usually gets suspended whenever there's an issue. On the other hand, Concourse should get NTT's whether it's the r211's or the r160's, since the D is a 24/7 line. That way the D can easily be rerouted through 8th Avenue whenever there is weekend track work or any issues on the 6th Avenue line."

@subwaycommuter1983 we dont want to hear that baloney. Coney doesnt deserve the r68's, they're complete junk. C.I needs their r160's back, and the r68's can stay in concourse. Im sick and tired of r68's on the , whenever I watch railfanning on the astoria line, they're chock full of them. Also, there is junky A.C, the NTT's are so much better in that case. Also, its not 100% clear if 8th avenue is gonna get CBTC, so for right now, give the r160's back. Leave the r68's at concourse, until they get replaced. Its useless if they keep moving the r68's around, and dont forget, coney is getting their r160s PLUS some r211's. So if they're gonna make Coney that one yard without NTT's, then im gonna lose my mind. C.I is the largest yard in the system, and one of the largest in the U.S.A, why fill it with old cars when you can work on new cars?

(and yes the  are my favorite lines, they need better than r68's)

Also dont forget that Astoria CBTC could become a reality.

[Storm]

 

1 hour ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

In my opinion, the r68's should all be at CI. The B can still keep at least some of the r68's, since the B is a part time line and usually gets suspended whenever there's an issue. On the other hand, Concourse should get NTT's whether it's the r211's or the r160's, since the D is a 24/7 line. That way the D can easily be rerouted through 8th Avenue whenever there is weekend track work or any issues on the 6th Avenue line.

But anyways, you're right. the  and  do deserve some r211's.

[Jemorie]

1 hour ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

That way the D can easily be rerouted through 8th Avenue whenever there is weekend track work or any issues on the 6th Avenue line.

That’s a dull reason, especially since that General Order happen many times and the  was all R68s at the same time.

[LGA Link N Train]

6 minutes ago, Stormxx said:

@subwaycommuter1983 we dont want to hear that baloney. Coney doesnt deserve the r68's, they're complete junk. C.I needs their r160's back, and the r68's can stay in concourse. Im sick and tired of r68's on the , whenever I watch railfanning on the astoria line, they're chock full of them. Also, there is junky A.C, the NTT's are so much better in that case. Also, its not 100% clear if 8th avenue is gonna get CBTC, so for right now, give the r160's back. Leave the r68's at concourse, until they get replaced. Its useless if they keep moving the r68's around, and dont forget, coney is getting their r160s PLUS some r211's. So if they're gonna make Coney that one yard without NTT's, then im gonna lose my mind. C.I is the largest yard in the system, and one of the largest in the U.S.A, why fill it with old cars when you can work on new cars?

(and yes the  are my favorite lines, they need better than r68's)

Also dont forget that Astoria CBTC could become a reality.

Concourse and Coney Island Yards AFAIK, take pretty good care of the R68/R68A fleet. Also, sorry to hear that you don’t like the 68’s on the  but it is what it is. You also have to remember that while many people may or may not like the SMEE’s (46’s and 68’s) on the , all they care about at the end of the day is that they get from point A to Point B without any issues. And while changing the rollsigns does increase dwell times at Ditmars, it wouldn’t matter that much in the grand scheme of things because the rollsigns are right next to each other. Now don’t even get me started on the layout of the interlockings between Astoria Blvd and Ditmars, that’s a different discussion for a different day. 

Now for the part I listed in Bold, 8th Avenue is scheduled to receive CBTC Upgrades between 59th Street-Columbus Circle and Jay Street-MetroTech right after Queens Blvd which you can read here:

https://www.mta.info/press-release/nyc-transit/mta-moves-forward-signal-modernization-eighth-avenue-ace-line

However, because of the pandemic and the budget deficit that the faces (which I personally find to be BS given that they manage to find money for other things) CBTC along 8th Avenue seems to be delayed at the moment. 

Now personally, I think that Pitkin and 207th should replace every last 46 sitting in those yards, and if there happen to be any surplus sets from the base order, then I’d say send the rest to CIY. I’m not going to mention the Option orders because it’s currently unclear if the  will go through with them.

[subwaycommuter1983]

12 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

That’s a dull reason, especially since that General Order happen many times and the  was all R68s at the same time.

That's because 8th Avenue is not CBTC yet. The real issue will happen when CBTC on 8th Avenue is complete. 

The MTA did a dumb mistake of excluding 6th Avenue from getting CBTC.

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, Stormxx said:

"In my opinion, the r68's should all be at CI. The B can still keep at least some of the r68's, since the B is a part time line and usually gets suspended whenever there's an issue. On the other hand, Concourse should get NTT's whether it's the r211's or the r160's, since the D is a 24/7 line. That way the D can easily be rerouted through 8th Avenue whenever there is weekend track work or any issues on the 6th Avenue line."

@subwaycommuter1983 we dont want to hear that baloney. Coney doesnt deserve the r68's, they're complete junk. C.I needs their r160's back, and the r68's can stay in concourse. Im sick and tired of r68's on the , whenever I watch railfanning on the astoria line, they're chock full of them. Also, there is junky A.C, the NTT's are so much better in that case. Also, its not 100% clear if 8th avenue is gonna get CBTC, so for right now, give the r160's back. Leave the r68's at concourse, until they get replaced. Its useless if they keep moving the r68's around, and dont forget, coney is getting their r160s PLUS some r211's. So if they're gonna make Coney that one yard without NTT's, then im gonna lose my mind. C.I is the largest yard in the system, and one of the largest in the U.S.A, why fill it with old cars when you can work on new cars?

(and yes the  are my favorite lines, they need better than r68's)

Also dont forget that Astoria CBTC could become a reality.

I'm not stating my opinion based on subway line-subway car preference. The r68's are my favorite subway car, but that is not the point.

The point is that the MTA made the wrong move of installing CBTC on segments of the subway system and not installing CBTC on the whole system. That is why any remaining SMEE's need to operate on lines that do not run or get rerouted thorough sections that have CBTC installed.

The best thing the MTA can do in addition to install CBTC on the whole system, is to purchase enough r211's and r262's to replace all SMEE's on the A and B division.

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by subwaycommuter1983

[Storm]

4 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

I'm not stating my opinion based on subway line-subway car preference. The r68's are my favorite subway car, but that is not the point.

The point is that the MTA made the wrong move of installing CBTC on segments of the subway system and not installing CBTC on the whole system. That is why any remaining SMEE's need to operate on lines that do not run or get rerouted thorough sections that have CBTC installed.

The best thing the MTA can do in addition to install CBTC on the whole system, is to purchase enough r211's and r262's to replace all SMEE's on the A and B division.

 

I do know that, but I thought everyone loved the A.C cars vs the hot ones that dont have FIND or automated announcements

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 minute ago, Stormxx said:

I do know that, but I thought everyone loved the A.C cars vs the hot ones that dont have FIND or automated announcements

Well the r68's aren't better than the NTT's, but in comparison to other SMEE's and retired cars, the r68's are my favorite.

[Storm]

2 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Well the r68's aren't better than the NTT's, but in comparison to other SMEE's and retired cars, the r68's are my favorite.

yes, definitely. The r46's time is up. 

To be honest, I loved the R32's though