Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[MysteriousBtrain]

Hey, my friend told me that proposal so don't shoot the messenger. BTrain, why don't you start with the proposal.

For starters, I don't know how the will be able to make those express stops when 1. There are 3 tracks and 2. No provisions for any of those stations to hold a local and express line.

Next, why alter the line at all when the gets suffered and the two lone harlem stations served by the get no service.

The only proposal I (kinda) like is the rush hour extension.

[P3F]

This is what I was thinking:

 

The is eliminated from the 7th Ave Lines, and runs up via Lex AV up to Burnside Ave via Jerome Express.

 

--Or---

 

The is cut back to a shuttle between 148 St and 14 St with rush hour service to Crown Heights/New Lots Av.

 

The returns and runs between 242 St Can Cortlandt Park via Broadway Express stopping at 242 St, 225 St, Dyckman St, 137 St, then via local from 137 St to Chambers St, then via the to New Lots Ave.

 

 

 

 

Other proposals:

During the AM Rush, 5 select trains run to New Lots Ave. This allows riders from Bronx to have a one seat ride to Brooklyn.

to Lex: Lexington doesn't have much space for all those trains and they're better off serving the 7th Avenue Line which gets a decent amount of ridership.

as a shuttle: I could imagine this happening with severe budget cuts but otherwise it's just unnecessary.

proposal: Fine by me, but good luck trying to get the to look at it for more than three seconds...

proposal: If the market is there for Bronx/Uptown to Brooklyn service then do it (the southern part of the doesn't get an extreme amount of ridership anyway), but otherwise it is unnecessary.

[Javier]

Well, my friend has all sorts of ideas so here it goes:

 

Rush Hour Extension during PM Rush to Van Cortlandt Park providing direct service to the Bronx from Brooklyn.

 

This one I like:

The service to Essex Street is eliminated on the Weekdays and service to Chambers St is brought back, using OPTO service.

During Rush Hour, if space provides, at least one gets sent down via Mountage to Bay 50 St, to allow service from Upper Brooklyn to Lower Brooklyn.

 

During the slow speeds G.O in QBL, some ®'s get sent up to Astoria Blvd, some trains run via the Line.

 

During rush hour, one train gets sent down to Whitehall Street or City Hall to provide thru service from Jamaica to Whitehall.

[Armandito]

Well, my friend has all sorts of ideas so here it goes:

 

Rush Hour Extension during PM Rush to Van Cortlandt Park providing direct service to the Bronx from Brooklyn.

 

This one I like:

The service to Essex Street is eliminated on the Weekdays and service to Chambers St is brought back, using OPTO service.

During Rush Hour, if space provides, at least one gets sent down via Mountage to Bay 50 St, to allow service from Upper Brooklyn to Lower Brooklyn.

 

During the slow speeds G.O in QBL, some ®'s get sent up to Astoria Blvd, some trains run via the Line.

 

During rush hour, one train gets sent down to Whitehall Street or City Hall to provide thru service from Jamaica to Whitehall.

This one I hate...

[RollOver]

This is what I was thinking:

 

The 3 is eliminated from the 7th Ave Lines, and runs up via Lex AV up to Burnside Ave via Jerome Express.

 

--Or---

 

The 3 is cut back to a shuttle between 148 St and 14 St with rush hour service to Crown Heights/New Lots Av.

 

The 9 returns and runs between 242 St Can Cortlandt Park via Broadway Express stopping at 242 St, 225 St, Dyckman St, 137 St, then via local from 137 St to Chambers St, then via the 3 to New Lots Ave.

 

 

 

 

Other proposals:

During the AM Rush, 5 select 1 trains run to New Lots Ave. This allows riders from Bronx to have a one seat ride to Brooklyn.

 

I mean really Javier, you're not being thoughtful at all with any of your recently posts in this thread. It makes me wonder if you take the subway regularly or you don't take the subway regularly at all. For starters, I'm not quite sure if either you yourself or a friend of yours is making these kinds of ideas, but I assume it's the former. If you want to make a good idea, you would have explain why you made your ideas the way you did as well as being logical and sensible about it. Instead of just simply posting them out of the blue.

 

You can't send the to the Lexington Avenue Line permanently because the and already do the work and their combined frequencies is sufficient enough to handle the crowds. Also, there's no need for express service on the Jerome Avenue Line either, because trains would just carry almost nobody since the majority of the riders are headed towards the local stops from Manhattan or are coming from the local stops on their way to Manhattan. What would become of both Harlem-148 St and 145 St stations then? Not to mention the cannot handle all the stops on the West Side by itself, unless you boost the number of trains on the entire line that is, which I also don't think is necessary either. 

 

You can't cut the back to 14 St, because that would just delay trains trying to come through on the express tracks. They would have to be on the local tracks in order to get through 14 St. Why is that necessary? I mean you eliminate through service between Harlem and New Lots, and forced more and more people to transfer between trains trying to get to/from Brooklyn or the New Lots branch.

 

Also, why should the 1/9 go to Brooklyn for? Is there an actual demand for it? A "one-seat" ride doesn't count, it's about demands and crowding. The runs very frequently enough to delay service at Chambers Street and the poorly built Rogers Junction as well as the not-too-good Flatbush, Utica and New Lots terminals. You already have the and doing the work between Lower Manhattan and the Brooklyn IRT. Why throw another line into the mix? Look at Rogers Junction, where trains are always being held to let another one cross infront of the other, most notably the and .

 

As for express service on the upper Broadway-7th Avenue Line, that's not necessarily a bad idea, but you need to understand if there's an actual demand for it. Do people really need a faster commute to or from the area? Many people on the are only going a few stops. There's a reason why the 1/9 skip-stop was eliminated years ago, because it didn't save much time as it was local almost all of its route, as well as people only staying on the train for a few stops. As opposed to the J/Z skip-stop, where many people are on the train trying to get to Manhattan (and not a few stops). 

 

Well, my friend has all sorts of ideas so here it goes:

 

2 Rush Hour Extension during PM Rush to Van Cortlandt Park providing direct service to the Bronx from Brooklyn.

 

This one I like:

The M service to Essex Street is eliminated on the Weekdays and M service to Chambers St is brought back, using OPTO service.

During Rush Hour, if space provides, at least one M gets sent down via Mountage to Bay 50 St, to allow service from Upper Brooklyn to Lower Brooklyn.

 

During the slow speeds G.O in QBL, some R's get sent up to Astoria Blvd, some F trains run via the E Line.

 

During rush hour, one E train gets sent down to Whitehall Street or City Hall to provide thru service from Jamaica to Whitehall.

 

Again, you're not thinking any of this through. The point is to keep every line going to one destination from end to end and minimize confusion & delays, keeping things as simple to comprehend as possible. We've been clear numerous times about why the old was eliminated from South Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan and rerouted up to Midtown Manhattan and Queens Boulevard. It was to cut costs and many people from the West End Line are on their way to/from Midtown Manhattan and not Lower Manhattan. Why else do you think the Montague Street Tube sees the lowest amount of passengers than any other East River crossing in the entire subway system? If that wasn't the case, they would have never eliminated it, nor would they have eliminated the either and replaced it with the current .

 

Also, slow speeds doesn't necessarily mean reroute some trains here and there, unless there is a major blockage in the area or capacity constraints. Do you ride the Queens Boulevard Line on weekends? Another thing: take a look at all the flagging with track/signal maintainers on every outdoor line during middays and weekends. Slow speeds, flagging, rail condition etc means that a train would be at most 15-20+ minutes late.

Edited September 1, 2015 by RollOver

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

There is room for two additional tracks to Rego Park, or you can elevate it over the ROW.

Yes, but my problem is that you're competing with the LIRR. If people want to go anywhere in a speedy way, let them pay for the LIRR. Also, you notice that most probably, this would have to merge with the LIRR, because there's no space at Woodside to build tracks. This means, the whole subway has to be up to FRA Standards. That costs a tremendous amount of money, and all this for the V to skip QBL.

 

Also, from where are you gonna elevate it and branch it, because that costs money. You can't branch it from Briarwood, not can you do it from Forest Hills to Union Tpke, and nowhere north of Forest Hills. The idea of a Queens-2 Avenue train is so bad. However it would have to go via QBL, and there's constraints already as is, on both express and local tracks.  

Edited September 1, 2015 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Javier]

Rollover, I like your explanation. Now remember all I wanted to see if my friends ideas were good.

 

I agree with the return, although I should ask people who live next to the if they want express service brought back.

 

Now with the , I thought it was a great idea bringing it back to Chambers St.

[Union Tpke]

I have made a template that people could use for maps.

Google Maps Transit Layer New York City by spicker613, on Flickr

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Rollover, I like your explanation. Now remember all I wanted to see if my friends ideas were good.

 

I agree with the return, although I should ask people who live next to the if they want express service brought back.

 

Now with the , I thought it was a great idea bringing it back to Chambers St.

The never ran express between 242 and 137. The and ran skip-stop service, just like the and . Proper peak direction express can't be done on the line because there are only two tracks from Dyckman to 157. An express would be unable to overtake a local on that section of the line and save time for riders.

 

M service to Chambers from the West End Line is definitely not needed. As for the local stops in Brooklyn, perhaps a Nassau St/4th Ave local service from Bay Ridge might be a better "helper line," because such service would then be able to stop at the busier 4th Ave local stations south of 36th St - although it probably shouldn't run to Jamaica Center or Metropolitan Ave. That would be a ridiculously long route.

Edited September 1, 2015 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Wallyhorse]

The never ran express between 242 and 137. The and ran skip-stop service, just like the and . Proper peak direction express can't be done on the line because there are only two tracks from Dyckman to 157. An express would be unable to overtake a local on that section of the line and save time for riders.

 

M service to Chambers from the West End Line is definitely not needed. As for the local stops in Brooklyn, perhaps a Nassau St/4th Ave local service from Bay Ridge might be a better "helper line," because such service would then be able to stop at the busier 4th Ave local stations south of 36th St - although it probably shouldn't run to Jamaica Center or Metropolitan Ave. That would be a ridiculously long route.

Agree on the Nassau line. A revival of the "Brown ," in this case running from Essex Street to 95th Street probably would work.  This can supplement the in Brooklyn during rush hours in the peak direction OR even perhaps be a both-directions line that runs from 6:00 AM-9:00 PM on weekdays. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

A "brown R" service would probably have to run in both directions because it would most likely be based out of ENY and use their R160s or R179s. It wouldn't be based out of Coney Island because it wouldn't be cost effective to assign a few 4-car sets of R160s or 179s at CI just for a simple rush hour service. And you don't want too much deadheading. With that in mind, I was thinking it's probably best to have the service start/end at Broadway Junction, basically a short-turn that extends to Bay Ridge.

Edited September 2, 2015 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Eric B]

I'm wonderinf if they could run it out of CI using CI equipment, by just having it as 5 cars. Since they can get by now with absolutely no service between NAssau and the south, then five car specials would still be an addition.

(And they couldn't go to Essex since the uses the middle track now, with the using the outer track).

[Javier]

The never ran express between 242 and 137. The and ran skip-stop service, just like the and . Proper peak direction express can't be done on the line because there are only two tracks from Dyckman to 157. An express would be unable to overtake a local on that section of the line and save time for riders.

 

M service to Chambers from the West End Line is definitely not needed. As for the local stops in Brooklyn, perhaps a Nassau St/4th Ave local service from Bay Ridge might be a better "helper line," because such service would then be able to stop at the busier 4th Ave local stations south of 36th St - although it probably shouldn't run to Jamaica Center or Metropolitan Ave. That would be a ridiculously long route.

 

For the part thats not what I meant, I meant terminate the weekend service to Essex St, and bring back the to Chambers St.

[Wallyhorse]

I'm wonderinf if they could run it out of CI using CI equipment, by just having it as 5 cars. Since they can get by now with absolutely no service between NAssau and the south, then five car specials would still be an addition.

(And they couldn't go to Essex since the uses the middle track now, with the using the outer track).

If that's the case, then you could make such a "Brown ®" a full-time train running from Broadway Junction to 95th Street, possibly even as a 24/7 line that would eliminate the need for the late-night shuttle.  Alternately, such 24/7 could run this way:

 

5:30AM-11:00 PM weekdays: Broadway Junction to 95th Street

11:00 PM-5:30 AM (next morning) Monday-Thursday and 11:00 PM Friday-5:30 AM Monday: Metropolitan Avenue to 95th Street (eliminating BOTH the and shuttles).

[FLX9304]

If I was to create a line, it'll be the:

IRT 77 line 

 

Wakefield/241st Street to Tottenville, SI.

stopping at 

 

Gun Hill Rd

E180th Street

Hub/149th St-3rd Ave

GC-149th Street

135th Street

125th Street

116th Street

110th Street-CPN

96th Street

42nd Street

34th St-Penn Sta

14th St

Chambers St

Park Pl

Fulton TC

Wall St

Boro Hall

Nevins St

36th St

86th St

Hylan Blvd-Narrows Rd

Tysens La

Richmond Ave

Hugenot Ave

Main St

 

Cars will use: R142s & 2 R62As

[T to Dyre Avenue]

If that's the case, then you could make such a "Brown ®" a full-time train running from Broadway Junction to 95th Street, possibly even as a 24/7 line that would eliminate the need for the late-night shuttle. Alternately, such 24/7 could run this way:

 

5:30AM-11:00 PM weekdays: Broadway Junction to 95th Street

11:00 PM-5:30 AM (next morning) Monday-Thursday and 11:00 PM Friday-5:30 AM Monday: Metropolitan Avenue to 95th Street (eliminating BOTH the and shuttles).

Hmmm, actually an interesting proposal in that it would eliminate those two late night shuttles. And Metro isn't really all that far from Broadway Junction. Though I don't know how much the MTA really saves from eliminating two late night shuttle trains this way. I'm also guessing the would then get truncated at Myrtle-Broadway late nights in that scenario. You'd also have to completely rework service during the rush if the daytime runs to/from Broadway Junction. Probably something like a peak-direction express J between Bway Jct and Marcy and a local Z to/from Bway Jct, supplementing the between Myrtle and Marcy.

 

And of course, there's the issue of whether or not 4th Ave local stations really need both the and seven days a week.

Edited September 3, 2015 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Wallyhorse]

And of course, there's the issue of whether or not 4th Ave local stations really need both the and seven days a week.

Given all the complaints I've heard on the , especially in the late evenings in Brooklyn, I think having a full-time in addition to the running to 95th Street would help a lot.   

[Javier]

I agree. Making use of the switches at Broad St also increases TPH, so you could have 2 trains laying up while 2 (Z)'s get sent down to 95 St. This also allows for a one seat ride to lower Brooklyn and eliminating the not needed shuttle.

[trainfanrod]

they do need to do something bout the train runs an hour but i think jamaica center is going to need extra trains as time goes in future

[Javier]

You know, I want to know why the is wasting their time designing the R211's for the SIR when honestly, a new train isnt needed on the SIR. You only have 1 route, so making a NTT train for it is ridiculous

 

So this is what I propose, when the R179's come, 6 or 8 R46's get sent down to the SIR, with a few improvements:

 

New Strip Maps designating SIR Express/Local Service:

Upgraded interior signs

Automated Announcments

An LED at the front of the car displaying what train it is. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

You know, I want to know why the is wasting their time designing the R211's for the SIR when honestly, a new train isnt needed on the SIR. You only have 1 route, so making a NTT train for it is ridiculous

 

So this is what I propose, when the R179's come, 6 or 8 R46's get sent down to the SIR, with a few improvements:

 

New Strip Maps designating SIR Express/Local Service:

Upgraded interior signs

Automated Announcments

An LED at the front of the car displaying what train it is.

I got an even better idea. Send the R32s and R42s there because it doesn't matter how old a train car is, ANY car can last for a million years no matter how rusty and disgusting they look or perform.

[Javier]

Lol

[CTK246]

You know, I want to know why the is wasting their time designing the R211's for the SIR when honestly, a new train isnt needed on the SIR. You only have 1 route, so making a NTT train for it is ridiculous

 

So this is what I propose, when the R179's come, 6 or 8 R46's get sent down to the SIR, with a few improvements:

 

New Strip Maps designating SIR Express/Local Service:

Upgraded interior signs

Automated Announcments

An LED at the front of the car displaying what train it is. 

So basically an R211?

Edited September 4, 2015 by CKhaleel

[2Line1291]

I haven't been on here for a while now but relating to culver express, my proposal is tying the culver express tracks at Bergen St with the Lexington Ave tracks at borough hall allowing the or to Coney Island terminating the at church ave. yes I know A and B division have different standards and culver stations would require platform extensions for the smaller IRT cars but just a thought

[Wallyhorse]

I've had my doozies, but this one takes the cake:

 

I haven't been on here for a while now but relating to culver express, my proposal is tying the culver express tracks at Bergen St with the Lexington Ave tracks at borough hall allowing the or to Coney Island terminating the at church ave. yes I know A and B division have different standards and culver stations would require platform extensions for the smaller IRT cars but just a thought

 

This would be next to, if not downright impossible.