Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[Jcb]

You cant have separate A and B Division platforms on the same track, because the B Division trains are just going to smash into the A Division platform on the side. Gap fillers also do not work as a solution, because they are not ADA accessible, but all new government construction must meet ADA standards.

Could you use gauntlet track? Have A Division trains stop closer to the platform and merge the gauntlet tracks after the station.

[R3238 RFW]

Yup the A division trains have stopped closer to the platform to merge.

Edited October 11, 2015 by R3238 RFW

[2Line1291]

Here's my proposal for the A-division

 

Wakefield-241st to Crown Heights-Utica Ave

- 241st to Times Square late nights. Utica Ave track layout modified to allow local trains to terminate here.

 

Flushing-Main St to Kings Hwy/Nostrand Ave

- via new "Astoria Blvd Line" branches off the under Central Park. Transfer available to 103rd and Astoria Blvd . the and now share the Flushing station and Corona Yard

 

Woodlawn to Flatlands Ave

- New Lots Line extended to Flatlands Ave

 

Wakefield-241st to Crescent St/Fulton St

- Alantic Ave to Crescent St late nights. Eastern Pkwy express tracks extended onto the Jamaica El from Alabama St to Crescent St. Proposing the Jamaica Line line east of Broadway Junction goes underground.

[Wallyhorse]

Here's my proposal for the A-division

 

Wakefield-241st to Crown Heights-Utica Ave

- 241st to Times Square late nights. Utica Ave track layout modified to allow local trains to terminate here.

 

Flushing-Main St to Kings Hwy/Nostrand Ave

- via new "Astoria Blvd Line" branches off the under Central Park. Transfer available to 103rd and Astoria Blvd . the and now share the Flushing station and Corona Yard

 

Woodlawn to Flatlands Ave

- New Lots Line extended to Flatlands Ave

 

Wakefield-241st to Crescent St/Fulton St

- Alantic Ave to Crescent St late nights. Eastern Pkwy express tracks extended onto the Jamaica El from Alabama St to Crescent St. Proposing the Jamaica Line line east of Broadway Junction goes underground.

Um, what happens to the section of the and to Flatbush Avenue?

 

Main Street has enough problems during rush hours handling all of the trains that operate there as it is (there is a video of a express on You Tube that shows it coming up to trains heading to Manhattan at virtually every station in a conga line)!  The only ways I could see that work would be to:

 

Have this version of the terminate on a new upper level of Mets-Willets Point

 

OR

 

Build an elevated extension after Mets-Willets Point and have the go to that new terminal.

 

(That's just off the top of my head).

Edited October 12, 2015 by Wallyhorse

[R3238 RFW]

Um, what happens to the section of the and to Flatbush Avenue?

 

Main Street has enough problems during rush hours handling all of the trains that operate there as it is (there is a video of a express on You Tube that shows it coming up to trains heading to Manhattan at virtually every station in a conga line)! The only ways I could see that work would be to:

 

Have this version of the terminate on a new upper level of Mets-Willets Point

 

OR

 

Build an elevated extension after Mets-Willets Point and have the go to that new terminal.

 

(That's just off the top of my head).

I would just build a new upper level platform for the to terminate at having a train go inside for one stop to come back outside is unusual and unnecessary and also having an elevated station in Flushing IMO and to add on you can also have some trains terminate at Mets willets point during rush hour

[bobtehpanda]

Would it be possible to design ADA accessible gap fillers?

 

Not really. The blind would need some sort of indication that the gap fillers were moving in or out, and also need to know where they were located. Wheelchair users would need to be accommodated as well; the current grill-style ones would probably trap the wheels of a wheelchair, and you have to account for the possibility that someone with a wheelchair may  not be able to get off the gap filler in time before it closes, etc., etc.

 

Could you use gauntlet track? Have A Division trains stop closer to the platform and merge the gauntlet tracks after the station.

 

I can't think of any rapid transit systems with gauntlet track. It's not a particularly good idea, because that'd be four switches at every station that have to switch every other train and work 100% of the time. There would also need to be a speed restriction and timers associated with it as well, most likely.

[2Line1291]

 Technology isn't always crystal perfect so gaunlet tracks wouldn't be a good idea.

 

Um, what happens to the section of the and to Flatbush Avenue?

Main Street has enough problems during rush hours handling all of the trains that operate there as it is (there is a video of a express on You Tube that shows it coming up to trains heading to Manhattan at virtually every station in a conga line)!  The only ways I could see that work would be to:

Have this version of the terminate on a new upper level of Mets-Willets Point

OR

Build an elevated extension after Mets-Willets Point and have the go to that new terminal.

(That's just off the top of my head).

 

The and doesn't go to Flastbush anymore. The serves Flatbush now plus extended down to Kings Hwy. I never know how bad it was at Main St, but the extended to Flushing is worth the investment. So Main St is a conga line; wouldn't extending the further east to Little Neck (only making stops at Broadway, 162nd St, Francis Lewis Blvd, Bell Blvd and Little Neck Pkwy) along Northern Blvd minimize the pile up at Main St? I also have a IND/BMT proposal in the work but my goal with these proposals are to minimize trains interlocking with each other as much as possible

[j4lambert]

I don't know about a Nostrand Av extension because then the flatbush terminal would have to close for like a bit of time to provide an extension.

When the Nostrand Avenue Line is extended southwards, one platform of the Flatbush Avenue station would be closed at a time to allow the station to be renovated and the platforms to be extended north by about 100 feet. While the platforms are being extended, a new crossover would be constructed midway between the station and Newkirk Avenue station (with a new crossover to be constructed south of Church Avenue station as well); this would require at least twelve consecutive weekend shutdowns of the entire line. The southern entrance, the southernmost 100 feet of platforms, and the bumper posts would then have to be demolished, and a temporary wall and walkway would be erected at that spot. Just south of Avenue H, two giant TBM launch boxes would be created. A 500 foot long cut-and-cover section under Nostrand would have to be constructed in order to connect the new extension with the existing line. During the construction project, normal service would be run on weekdays. However, on weekends, all train services would terminate at Church Avenue, and 5 trains would have to be cut back to Bowling Green.

 

Four alternatives would be studied for the extension:

1. Build a fully underground extension of the Nostrand Avenue Line from Flatbush Avenue station to East Sheepshead Bay. New stations would be located at the following streets: Avenue K, Kings Highway, Quentin Road, Avenue T, and Avenue X. Utica Avenue Line would be built from Crown Heights-Utica Avenue to Avenue U-Kings Plaza. New underground stations would be built at: Empire Boulevard-Remsen Avenue, Clarkson Avenue-Lenox Road, Snyder Avenue, Foster Avenue, Kings Highway-Avenue H, Flatlands Avenue, and Avenue N. After the Avenue N station, a tunnel portal would be built just south of Fillmore Avenue to carry the line on a concrete elevated viaduct over Flatbush Avenue to the terminus at Avenue U-Kings Plaza.

2. Build a fully underground extension of the Nostrand Avenue Line from Flatbush Avenue station to Kings Highway station, then build a fully underground extension to Gerritsen Beach. New stations would be built under Nostrand Avenue at Avenue K and Kings Highway. After Kings Highway station, the line shall be diverted under Gerritsen Avenue and new stations would be built at the following locations: Fillmore Avenue-Marine Park, Avenue U-Knapp Street, and Gerritsen Beach-Florence Avenue. The Utica Avenue Line shall be built as in proposal 1.

3. Build a fully underground extension of the Nostrand Avenue Line from Flatbush Avenue station to Kings Highway station, then build an extension to Bergen Beach. The Nostrand Avenue alignment would be followed to Kings Highway. After Kings Highway station, a new station would be built under Gerritsen Avenue at Avenue R, then the line would be built under Filmore Avenue with a new station at East 36th Street. The line would continue under Filmore Avenue with a station at East 53rd Street and then under Avenue T to new stations at Mill Avenue and Veterans Avenue/East 69th Street, where the line would terminate. If this extension is constructed, then the Utica Avenue Line would not be built.

4. Build an extension of the Nostrand Avenue Line under Flatbush Avenue. Stations would be located at Avenue J, Kings Highway-Flatlands Avenue, and Avenue R. After Avenue R, the line would run to a tunnel portal just south of Filmore Avenue, where the line would continue on a concrete elevated viaduct to Avenue U-Kings Plaza. A streetcar line would be built on Nostrand Avenue between Williamsburg and East Sheepshead Bay; the streetcar line would stop at the same stations as the B44 SBS. In addition, the Utica Avenue Line would be built as a streetcar line; it would stop at the same stations as the B46 SBS.

[JGMR]

You cant have separate A and B Division platforms on the same track, because the B Division trains are just going to smash into the A Division platform on the side. Gap fillers also do not work as a solution, because they are not ADA accessible, but all new government construction must meet ADA standards.

I proposed two solutions: either use gap fillers, or divert the different trains onto different tracks at stations, with a cross-platform transfer, to ensure compatibility. I didn't know that gap fillers weren't ADA compliant; however, aside from the sides of the platforms, which can be solved by diverting onto two tracks with correctly sized platforms or by using gauntlet tracks, as Jcb suggested, and the different location of the train stops, which can be solved with stops on both sides, I don't see why an IND-class line can't handle an IRT train.

[bobtehpanda]

I proposed two solutions: either use gap fillers, or divert the different trains onto different tracks at stations, with a cross-platform transfer, to ensure compatibility. I didn't know that gap fillers weren't ADA compliant; however, aside from the sides of the platforms, which can be solved by diverting onto two tracks with correctly sized platforms or by using gauntlet tracks, as Jcb suggested, and the different location of the train stops, which can be solved with stops on both sides, I don't see why an IND-class line can't handle an IRT train.

 

I mean, with enough engineering you can solve any problem, but whether the costs are worth the benefits is a completely different matter entirely. Excavating with two sets of platforms and tracks would introduce more potential failure points due to the necessity of two switches at every station, and a second set of platforms would require essentially doubling the size of a station, increasing costs. If there was a cost-effective, reliable way to do so, it would've been done earlier when the Astoria and Flushing Lines were under dual-operation.

[Union Tpke]

Have the run local on Queens Blvd during late nights to allow for CBTC work to be done on the express tracks.

Also, create a Jamaica Peak Direction express.

Install a third track on the Jamaica Elevated. In order to avoid the two track section the line would continue onto Jamaica Avenue when the local tracks diverge. The track would then merge into the center track at Broadway Junction. An express station would be built at Woodhaven as there are provisions there for that exact purpose.

Trains would operate via Sixth Avenue Express, with a connection between the Chrystie Street Connection for the Manhattan bridge.

The trains would operate via the 63rd tunnel and the Queens Blvd Local operating to Rosedale with the E.

The M would operate via the Rockaway Beach Branch and the R would run to 179th Street.

This service would be the K train. To Manhattan it would stop at JC, Sutphin, Woodhaven, Bdwy Jct, Myrtle, Marcy and then Essex. A lot of people would use this service instead of the E reducing overcrowding.

Screen Shot 2015-10-22 at 4.41.09 PM by spicker613, on Flickr

Screen Shot 2015-10-22 at 4.42.45 PM by spicker613, on Flickr

Screen Shot 2015-10-22 at 4.42.53 PM by spicker613, on Flickr

[RollOver]

Have the run local on Queens Blvd during late nights to allow for CBTC work to be done on the express tracks.

 

I don't think bobthepanda will agree though. I remember last year he told me that the is one of the only lines in the system that has riders who make bus connections and riders who take a train (and then a bus) have very, very lengthy commutes.

 

Right bobthepanda?

[Wallyhorse]

Have the run local on Queens Blvd during late nights to allow for CBTC work to be done on the express tracks.

Also, create a Jamaica Peak Direction express.

Install a third track on the Jamaica Elevated. In order to avoid the two track section the line would continue onto Jamaica Avenue when the local tracks diverge. The track would then merge into the center track at Broadway Junction. An express station would be built at Woodhaven as there are provisions there for that exact purpose.

Trains would operate via Sixth Avenue Express, with a connection between the Chrystie Street Connection for the Manhattan bridge.

The trains would operate via the 63rd tunnel and the Queens Blvd Local operating to Rosedale with the E.

The M would operate via the Rockaway Beach Branch and the R would run to 179th Street.

This service would be the K train. To Manhattan it would stop at JC, Sutphin, Woodhaven, Bdwy Jct, Myrtle, Marcy and then Essex. A lot of people would use this service instead of the E reducing overcrowding.

Screen Shot 2015-10-22 at 4.41.09 PM by spicker613, on Flickr

Screen Shot 2015-10-22 at 4.42.45 PM by spicker613, on Flickr

Screen Shot 2015-10-22 at 4.42.53 PM by spicker613, on Flickr

I like this a lot except I would add 121st Street as an extra express stop if possible.  That would be specifically so trains going to JC can be held more easily if there is congestion past 121 (going railroad north) while 121 can also be used when needed as a short-turn terminal and an extra stop when needed for G.O.'s.

[Jcb]

This is a proposal for cross-Bronx service with the Pelham Express and the Pelham Local and the servicing Fordham Road. The alignment could probably be improved, though. Any suggestions would have appreciated.

http://imgur.com/uDMYCog

Edited October 23, 2015 by Jcb

[Jcb]

In the case of the and i meant Gun Hill.

[trainfanrod]

yall gonna make the train tooo long the line is already an hour 50 mins local i think

[bobtehpanda]

I don't think bobthepanda will agree though. I remember last year he told me that the is one of the only lines in the system that has riders who make bus connections and riders who take a train (and then a bus) have very, very lengthy commutes.

 

Right bobthepanda?

 

If it's for a GO (and to be honest, either this or bustitution is going to happen given what happened to the and during CBTC installation), then it can't be avoided, as opposed to a railfan making arbitrary service adjustments based on what they think ridership patterns are like.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Also, create a Jamaica Peak Direction express.

Install a third track on the Jamaica Elevated. In order to avoid the two track section the line would continue onto Jamaica Avenue when the local tracks diverge. The track would then merge into the center track at Broadway Junction. An express station would be built at Woodhaven as there are provisions there for that exact purpose.

Trains would operate via Sixth Avenue Express, with a connection between the Chrystie Street Connection for the Manhattan bridge.

...

This service would be the K train. To Manhattan it would stop at JC, Sutphin, Woodhaven, Bdwy Jct, Myrtle, Marcy and then Essex. A lot of people would use this service instead of the E reducing overcrowding.

 

I like your K express proposal. I think the Jamaica Ave el would have much higher ridership if it had an express/bypass track all the way from Jamaica through Bushwick. Add another stop or two further into Jamaica and I think more Lower Manhattan-bound riders might opt for the J and K over the E.

[Union Tpke]

I like your K express proposal. I think the Jamaica Ave el would have much higher ridership if it had an express/bypass track all the way from Jamaica through Bushwick. Add another stop or two further into Jamaica and I think more Lower Manhattan-bound riders might opt for the J and K over the E.

This would hopefully allow for reduced congestion on the . With the CBTC taking a while, this could help reduce congestion, and use the additional TPH on the Jamaica El.

[Trainmaster5]

. Add another stop or two further into Jamaica and I think more Lower Manhattan-bound riders might opt for the J and K over the E.

Depends on where you'd add those stops, right? Remember those stops the used to have further east on Jamaica Avenue? The ones the said the merchants and residents wanted removed. Instead we got the (truncated) , setup we have today.. IMO the better option would have been to leave the elevated where it was and extend it eastward while using the and another QBL local along Archer Avenue toward the east/southeast. Since hindsight is 20/20 and I wasn't a resident of the area or on the board when these ideas were floated I'd like to know the reasoning behind what we ended up with today. I understand the financial problem(s) that made Parson's -Archer the present terminal but it amazes me that the and NYC brag about the Hudson Yards train to the dump called Javits and the never-ending SAS saga.The missing 10th Ave stop would have benefited more people IMO. Look at the recent proposals for the PA bus terminal location as an example of what I mean. Personally the Archer Avenue extension done in conjunction with the QBL CBTC would have more benefit for more New Yorkers than the extension will ever have. Hudson Yards benefits the real estate folks while SAS and an Archer Avenue extension benefit real New Yorkers. Just my rant. Carry on

[bobtehpanda]

Depends on where you'd add those stops, right? Remember those stops the used to have further east on Jamaica Avenue? The ones the said the merchants and residents wanted removed. Instead we got the (truncated) , setup we have today.. IMO the better option would have been to leave the elevated where it was and extend it eastward while using the and another QBL local along Archer Avenue toward the east/southeast. Since hindsight is 20/20 and I wasn't a resident of the area or on the board when these ideas were floated I'd like to know the reasoning behind what we ended up with today. I understand the financial problem(s) that made Parson's -Archer the present terminal but it amazes me that the and NYC brag about the Hudson Yards train to the dump called Javits and the never-ending SAS saga.The missing 10th Ave stop would have benefited more people IMO. Look at the recent proposals for the PA bus terminal location as an example of what I mean. Personally the Archer Avenue extension done in conjunction with the QBL CBTC would have more benefit for more New Yorkers than the extension will ever have. Hudson Yards benefits the real estate folks while SAS and an Archer Avenue extension benefit real New Yorkers. Just my rant. Carry on

 

I would personally prefer the Queens Blvd Bypass over the Archer Av extension, but that's just me.

[Union Tpke]

I would personally prefer the Queens Blvd Bypass over the Archer Av extension, but that's just me.

i agree!

[MysteriousBtrain]

I would personally prefer the Queens Blvd Bypass over the Archer Av extension, but that's just me.

 

 

i agree!

If there was a QBL bypass, it would help if another line was available to use, probably an archer extension.

[bobtehpanda]

If there was a QBL bypass, it would help if another line was available to use, probably an archer extension.

 

You don't really need another line; there are eight tracks into Jamaica, of which only six are currently in use. Make the all express in Queens and make locals east of Forest Hills Second Avenue trains via the QBL Bypass.

[Around the Horn]

Here is my list of proposals.I'll get more in detail when I have more time to focus on them...

to Red Hook via Governors Island

to Kings Plaza via Utica Avenue

to Springfield Blvd

to Howard Beach-JFK via RBB ( local to 71 Av weekdays, runs local from Jackson Heights to 71 Av weekends)

(or the wally brought up in the culver express thread) to Bay Plaza via Pelham Parkway

to Co-op City

to 125 St and Bway

Hanover Sq to Fordham Plaza