Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[bobtehpanda]

There are still existing stations at Atlantic Av (Woodhaven Junction) and 101 AV (Ozone Park), although I know at least Atlantic Av's platforms have to be almost completely rebuilt due to it being broken down by trees and the Logan Bus depot.

 

I don't think any of the stations are usable (and even if they are, they have to be rebuilt for ADA anyways), so locations of existing stations are moot.

 

101 Av is pretty close to Atlantic Av; knowing how the LIRR traditionally built their stations, it's probably because Atlantic Av only had the one entrance. I would rather the station in between Atlantic and Aqueduct be between Rockaway and Liberty.

[NY1635]

At this point, I would settle for just extending the subway under Hillside Avenue from 179th Street to Springfield Blvd/Braddock Ave, then have the run between Queens Village and World Trade Center.

 

Or even extending the out to Bayside in the hopes of reducing congesting in both Flushing and Jamaica.

[bstar1]

Actually It's better for because It's already on Hillside Av to be extended from 179 St to Springfield Blvd.

[BreeddekalbL]

if they fully bult out the archer ave subway where the actually go?

[Caelestor]

if they fully bult out the archer ave subway where the actually go?

 

Queens Village LIRR

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

Actually, that's not even the train! That's the (Z)'s replacement (the Z will be the new name for the Franklin Av Line which will be extended), the (DELTA). The (DELTA) runs at all times between Port Ivory, Staten Island and Brookville Blvd, Queens via the Staten Island Express, Nassau St Line, Jamaica Express, Archer Av Express, and Farmers Blvd Express. The runs its pre-2010 cuts route from Metropolitan Av-South Brooklyn at all times, except it is extended to Coney Island, and runs via Sea Beach instead of West End.

 

 

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Would the renovations at 121st St have anything to do with that or are they just doing some overdue freshening?

 

???? Eric Shields | #MassTransitHonchkrow ????

THE Hudson Valley's essential Fare-blazer ????

Fantasy Subway Update: BMT Nassau St Line mapping is complete!

 

Link:https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xedc2r9O1Skrfia1xaxZZPjEXAk&usp=sharing

Do you think it'd be more Interesting to see the Hudson Bergen Light Rail serve the North Shore?

 

???? Eric Shields | #MassTransitHonchkrow ????

THE Hudson Valley's essential Fare-blazer ????

[P3F]

Even though the Elm Park station on the North Shore Line is right under the Bayonne Bridge, it would still be difficult to build a transfer to HBLR because the bridge is too high up at that point.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

An interesting idea I saw for the RBL...

 

I like it! Where did you find that?

I don't think any of the stations are usable (and even if they are, they have to be rebuilt for ADA anyways), so locations of existing stations are moot.

 

101 Av is pretty close to Atlantic Av; knowing how the LIRR traditionally built their stations, it's probably because Atlantic Av only had the one entrance. I would rather the station in between Atlantic and Aqueduct be between Rockaway and Liberty.

Agreed. A stop between Liberty and Rockaway Blvd would work quite well because it would be able to connect to three local bus routes. That's a much better place for a station than 101st Ave. Myrtle is also better because of the bus connection. Maybe relocate the Aqueduct Racetrack station to Linden Blvd to attract more riders.

[agar io]

Even though the Elm Park station on the North Shore Line is right under the Bayonne Bridge, it would still be difficult to build a transfer to HBLR because the bridge is too high up at that point.

Technically you could have a standalone elevator structure. No one would use the stairs because the height would be too much.

An interesting idea I saw for the RBL...

About that summer train... I don't suppose they figured that this basically makes the a loop line?

 

It's as if the were extended to Jamaica Center on both ends, except this is a larger and longer loop, like Tokyo subway's Oedo line.

Intreresting.

 

How much would it cost to extend the train to Jamaica anyway?

A few billion dollars, give or take the cost of connecting the to the JFK AirTrain if the MTA is really feeling cheap.

But of course, the Port Authority is not gonna agree.

[pringle5095]

Technically you could have a standalone elevator structure. No one would use the stairs because the height would be too much.

 

About that summer train... I don't suppose they figured that this basically makes the a loop line?

 

It's as if the were extended to Jamaica Center on both ends, except this is a larger and longer loop, like Tokyo subway's Oedo line.

 

A few billion dollars, give or take the cost of connecting the to the JFK AirTrain if the MTA is really feeling cheap.

 

But of course, the Port Authority is not gonna agree.

If you look at my IRT map a few posts back, the Airtrain would be replaced by service and a new JFK Airport shuttle.

 

 

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[Union Tpke]

If you look at my IRT map a few posts back, the Airtrain would be replaced by service and a new JFK Airport shuttle.

 

 

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That is a terrible idea. Why make it longer? Also, while it might be a straight line to the airport, that does not make sense. To make good transit plans, we must get past that stage in foamerdom.

[agar io]

If you look at my IRT map a few posts back, the Airtrain would be replaced by service and a new JFK Airport shuttle.

 

 

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All good, except for the fact that AirTrain is B division dimensions.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Ignoring any difficulties of running 2+ lines through Nassau, is it possible to have the Broad Street relay tracks operate under a lower level and along Atlantic Ave to reach a connection to the Culver express tracks a Bergen St?

[Lawrence St]

Going back to that RBB proposal, I thought about it and it really help out if something were to happen to 8th Avenue/CPW and reroute the away from the problem.

[BreeddekalbL]

say you build the queens bypass would it make stops at roosevelt island and 21st queensbridge before using the bypass to queens?

[Union Tpke]

say you build the queens bypass would it make stops at roosevelt island and 21st queensbridge before using the bypass to queens?

 

It should and it would have to. There should be stops on the bypass at Northern Boulevard, 39th Avenue, Woodside, Rego Park and finally Forest Hills.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Ignoring any difficulties of running 2+ lines through Nassau, is it possible to have the Broad Street relay tracks operate under a lower level and along Atlantic Ave to reach a connection to the Culver express tracks a Bergen St?

The Broad Street relay tracks are actually above the tracks that lead to the Montague Tunnel. I'm not sure how far below the street they are, but I don't think they're too far down if the tunnel tracks descend below them. The would also have to dodge the other nearby subway tunnels for the , and lines. So extending the line's relay tracks into a new tunnel to Atlantic Ave, then hooking into the line at Bergen Street's lower level would be a very difficult project to build, and thus, a very expensive one. And how much of a need is there for direct service from the Culver Line to the Nassau St Line? I can't imagine there's much of a need for it.

Going back to that RBB proposal, I thought about it and it really help out if something were to happen to 8th Avenue/CPW and reroute the away from the problem.

You'd then be running the in a giant loop - Rockaways -> RBB -> Queens Blvd Local -> 53rd St Tunnel -> 8th Ave -> Cranberry Tunnel -> Fulton St/Liberty Ave Line -> back to Rockaways. And that would apply only to Rockaway trains. A's from Lefferts would have to take their chances on the regular route into Brooklyn and Manhattan. But I would think it would only be in a most extreme case, you'd ever see that kind of a reroute. Edited March 2, 2017 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Wallyhorse]

The Broad Street relay tracks are actually above the tracks that lead to the Montague Tunnel. I'm not sure how far below the street they are, but I don't think they're too far down if the tunnel tracks descend below them. The would also have to dodge the other nearby subway tunnels for the , and lines. So extending the line's relay tracks into a new tunnel to Atlantic Ave, then hooking into the line at Bergen Street's lower level would be a very difficult project to build, and thus, a very expensive one. And how much of a need is there for direct service from the Culver Line to the Nassau St Line? I can't imagine there's much of a need for it.

You'd then be running the in a giant loop - Rockaways -> RBB -> Queens Blvd Local -> 53rd St Tunnel -> 8th Ave -> Cranberry Tunnel -> Fulton St/Liberty Ave Line -> back to Rockaways. And that would apply only to Rockaway trains. A's from Lefferts would have to take their chances on the regular route into Brooklyn and Manhattan. But I would think it would only be in a most extreme case, you'd ever see that kind of a reroute.

That could be remedied if as part of adding the RBB there are full connections to and from Lefferts in all four directions there.  That would solve that issue.

[agar io]

You'd then be running the in a giant loop - Rockaways -> RBB -> Queens Blvd Local -> 53rd St Tunnel -> 8th Ave -> Cranberry Tunnel -> Fulton St/Liberty Ave Line -> back to Rockaways. And that would apply only to Rockaway trains. A's from Lefferts would have to take their chances on the regular route into Brooklyn and Manhattan. But I would think it would only be in a most extreme case, you'd ever see that kind of a reroute.

 

I don't imagine that the MTA is particularly fond of loop-shaped services of any kind, especially a loop that only connects to one of the service's two branches at the other end.

 

If this were ever implemented, it would most likely go like this:

• Rockaways → RBB → Queens Blvd Local → 53rd St Tunnel → 8th Ave → Cranberry Tunnel → Fulton St/Liberty Ave Line → Lefferts Blvd

But then this would necessitate building a new transfer station between the RBB and Liberty Av line. It could in theory be remedied by sending some trains from the Fulton St Line down to the Rockaways directly, but we'd also need to reciprocate by sending some RBB trains to Lefferts, and that would probably cost a lot more than it's worth.

That could be remedied if as part of adding the RBB there are full connections to and from Lefferts in all four directions there.  That would solve that issue.

 

I don't think half a connection to Lefferts would ever be implemented, let alone a full connection, but if it were ever built, I'd prioritize the RBB-Lefferts connection first to balance out headways on the RBB and Fulton St ends of the . Not that it'd be feasible, though.

Edited March 4, 2017 by agar io

[bobtehpanda]

That could be remedied if as part of adding the RBB there are full connections to and from Lefferts in all four directions there.  That would solve that issue.

 

Literally no one makes four-direction railway junctions. It's far too expensive for far too little utility.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I don't imagine that the MTA is particularly fond of loop-shaped services of any kind, especially a loop that only connects to one of the service's two branches at the other end.

 

If this were ever implemented, it would most likely go like this:

• Rockaways → RBB → Queens Blvd Local → 53rd St Tunnel → 8th Ave → Cranberry Tunnel → Fulton St/Liberty Ave Line → Lefferts Blvd

But then this would necessitate building a new transfer station between the RBB and Liberty Av line. It could in theory be remedied by sending some trains from the Fulton St Line down to the Rockaways directly, but we'd also need to reciprocate by sending some RBB trains to Lefferts, and that would probably cost a lot more than it's worth.

 

 

I don't think half a connection to Lefferts would ever be implemented, let alone a full connection, but if it were ever built, I'd prioritize the RBB-Lefferts connection first to balance out headways on the RBB and Fulton St ends of the . Not that it'd be feasible, though.

I agree. That's what I was trying to point out in my previous post. Also, there really wouldn't be a need to do that kind of a service reroute. It's very rare to have an entire four-track line like CPW completely knocked out, and the has a very long way to go from South Queens to CPW, so there really isn't much of a need to reroute the to the QBL. For most service disruptions, the CPW line recovers in time for trains from South Queens to be able to access the line and continue on to 207th St. Edited March 4, 2017 by T to Dyre Avenue

[2Line1291]

Wakefield-241st St to Kings Plaza

   - via Bronx EXP to 241st; Bronx Local to Gun Hill Rd, Eastern Parkway/Utica Local

 

Harlem-148th St Middle Village-Metropolitan Ave

   - via Myrtle Ave *Myrtle Ave Line disconnected from Jamaica Line and now tied to Clark St Tunnel

 

Woodlawn to Spring Creek-Flatlands Ave

  * New Lots Line extended down via Elton St

 

Flushing-Main St to Kings Hwy/Nostrand Av

   - via Astoria Blvd. *Nostrand Line extended and Astoria Blvd Line branches off Lex at 96th St

 

Bay Plaza to Brighton Beach

  - via Third Ave/Gun Hill, 125th St

 

168th St to Libery Av/Sutphin Blvd

 - via Fulton Ave Exp *Lefferts Line extended to Sutphin Blvd

 

Bay Plaza to Coney Island

 - via Concourse/Gun Hill

 

Rosedale to WTC

 - via Atlantic Branch, 53rd St/Queens Blvd Exp

 

Little Neck Parkway/Hillside to Church Ave

- via Hillside Local, 63rd St/Queens Bypass, Culver Local

 

Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to Coney Island

- via Broadway Exp

 

Eastchester-Dyre Ave to Coney Island

- via Dyre-Tremont Av/Third Ave, Second Ave/Broadway Exp

 

125th St/Broadway to Euclid Ave

- via 125th St, Atlantic Av Tunnel/Fulton Ave Local

 

Little Neck Pkwy/Hillside to Coney Island

- via Hillside EXP, 63rd St/Queens Blvd Exp, Second Ave, Atlantic Ave Tunnel/Culver Exp

 

discontinued, and I don't know what to do with the

[Wallyhorse]

Harlem-148th St Middle Village-Metropolitan Ave

   - via Myrtle Ave *Myrtle Ave Line disconnected from Jamaica Line and now tied to Clark St Tunnel

This might be the way to rebuild the Myrtle Avenue El.  It would require the platforms along that line to have additional footage to fill the game between BMT and IND sized cars and lengthening some platforms (most platforms were actually built to handle eight-car trains of BMT Standards that were 67 feet in length).   You'd also have to rebuild the upper level of Myrtle Avenue to make it work.

 

The question would be, where would you connect the line via Clark Street, including where would you put a portal?  You'd probably have to do a lot of rebuilding around Atlantic Avenue and Nevins Street and possibly use the never-used platform at Nevins (most likely to Metropolitan) if you use Nevins unless you're able to say have the join the Clark Street line south of Hoyt.  

[2Line1291]

This might be the way to rebuild the Myrtle Avenue El.  It would require the platforms along that line to have additional footage to fill the game between BMT and IND sized cars and lengthening some platforms (most platforms were actually built to handle eight-car trains of BMT Standards that were 67 feet in length).   You'd also have to rebuild the upper level of Myrtle Avenue to make it work.

 

The question would be, where would you connect the line via Clark Street, including where would you put a portal?  You'd probably have to do a lot of rebuilding around Atlantic Avenue and Nevins Street and possibly use the never-used platform at Nevins (most likely to Metropolitan) if you use Nevins unless you're able to say have the join the Clark Street line south of Hoyt.  

A Division 10 cars and B division 8 cars is about the same length.

[BreeddekalbL]

Quick question would it be possible to turn those trains that are scheduled to run via the 2nd avenue subway at Queensboro Plaza?

 

as in have those trains relay on the express track at 39th avenue?

Edited March 17, 2017 by BreeddekalbL