Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[cl94]

Chambers is a couple blocks above the WTC and right where the Battery Park City landfill begins. Liberty Street is south of WTC and to get there you'd have to get under West Street, which is outside the bathtub. Everything in BPC is built on pilings with subbasements extending down over 60 feet to bedrock. To avoid water issues, everything would have to be in the rock. It certainly is possible. I'm just saying that the benefits might not justify the cost, especially if half of the city's subway lines have stations within a couple of blocks

[bobtehpanda]

So all those buildings; hotels, apartments & condos, Battery Park City, the WFC...all that is built on/in the bathtub and this tub precludes any new projects from being built below them? I refuse to believe that the great minds of this millennium cannot come up with a plan to get this done without having to drill to China. The stretch from Battery Park to Chambers (your southern border) is about 1 1/2 miles. OK, it would cost more to build than it would outside that bathtub. When the plans to build the original WTC were drawn up very few people thought it could be done and the costs were astronomical, yet the job was completed. Many projects started with only a dream and a pencil.

 

Above Chambers the only problems would be the normal headaches faced in doing new construction. Building in the vicinity of the WTC complex might need cooperation with the PA, but if funding was available I see this as a doable project. I didn't know I'd need a BS in Engineering to defend it!

 

Any problem with the rest of the route above Liberty St?

 

It's mostly just a problem with any sort of subterranean construction on West St. Keep in mind that, when Battery Park City was laid out, it was also designed to mitigate flooding issues; during Sandy, all of West St was underwater, but the actual buildings themselves were fine because BPC was designed to drain into West St and the river. Building a subway tunnel under what is essentially a large drainage channel isn't a very good idea, especially in light of the fact that the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel and its opening into West St was the last river crossing to reopen.

 

The bathtub is not what prevents building a subway (the goes straight through the bathtub), but the bathtub is located closer to the center of Manhattan and demonstrates the kind of water issues a brand new tunnel on West St would have to deal with.

[FRACertifyMotormen]

The weekend M should not terminate at Essex Street, but instead run full length to 71 Avenue.  

[TeeLow]

The weekend M should not terminate at Essex Street, but instead run full length to 71 Avenue.  

Now why'd you hafta go say that? Now the folks wanting the pushed to BPB on weekends are gonna start screaming.

[AndrewJC]

The weekend M should not terminate at Essex Street, but instead run full length to 71 Avenue.  

 

The M would have to be cut back to Essex whenever GO's affect 6th Avenue or QBL service.

 

The QBL interlockings are currently being redone. Then comes years of CBTC installation on the QBL, plus interlocking replacements on 6th.

 

What's the point of paying for a service that might run a few weekends each year for the next decade or more?

[TeeLow]

Chambers is a couple blocks above the WTC and right where the Battery Park City landfill begins. Liberty Street is south of WTC and to get there you'd have to get under West Street, which is outside the bathtub. Everything in BPC is built on pilings with subbasements extending down over 60 feet to bedrock. To avoid water issues, everything would have to be in the rock. It certainly is possible. I'm just saying that the benefits might not justify the cost, especially if half of the city's subway lines have stations within a couple of blocks

 

It's mostly just a problem with any sort of subterranean construction on West St. Keep in mind that, when Battery Park City was laid out, it was also designed to mitigate flooding issues; during Sandy, all of West St was underwater, but the actual buildings themselves were fine because BPC was designed to drain into West St and the river. Building a subway tunnel under what is essentially a large drainage channel isn't a very good idea, especially in light of the fact that the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel and its opening into West St was the last river crossing to reopen.

 

The bathtub is not what prevents building a subway (the goes straight through the bathtub), but the bathtub is located closer to the center of Manhattan and demonstrates the kind of water issues a brand new tunnel on West St would have to deal with.

The boom in residential growth along 10th Ave alone would justify the new line's existence. Population is up all along the far West Side; Hell's Kitchen, Midtown West, Chelsea, TriBeca and Greenwich Village. Once the Hudson Yards is finished, speculation along 11th Ave will turn into reality (or realty). The 8th Ave line won't be able to handle the new ridership in 20 years by its lonesome. This new 10th Ave line will serve a whole new revenue stream and ATST ease the overcrowding on the 7th Ave line below 14th St. If the planners and schemers of these kinds of projects can't come up with a solution for the landfill other than tunneling through bedrock for 1 1/2 - 2 miles, then do what needs be done because it -needs- to be done. And as for the 'other' subway lines, I'm assuming you're referring to Spaghetti City in lower Manhattan. I'm sure the folks who live on the west side of West St feel there are plenty of subway options to choose from, after they step out of that yellow cab.

 

I swear I didn't think just proposing a new line would turn so serious, but I can stand a good, constructive argument.; even if I am admittedly in over my head.

[cl94]

The boom in residential growth along 10th Ave alone would justify the new line's existence. Population is up all along the far West Side; Hell's Kitchen, Midtown West, Chelsea, TriBeca and Greenwich Village. Once the Hudson Yards is finished, speculation along 11th Ave will turn into reality (or realty). The 8th Ave line won't be able to handle the new ridership in 20 years by its lonesome. This new 10th Ave line will serve a whole new revenue stream and ATST ease the overcrowding on the 7th Ave line below 14th St. If the planners and schemers of these kinds of projects can't come up with a solution for the landfill other than tunneling through bedrock for 1 1/2 - 2 miles, then do what needs be done because it -needs- to be done. And as for the 'other' subway lines, I'm assuming you're referring to Spaghetti City in lower Manhattan. I'm sure the folks who live on the west side of West St feel there are plenty of subway options to choose from, after they step out of that yellow cab.

 

I swear I didn't think just proposing a new line would turn so serious, but I can stand a good, constructive argument.; even if I am admittedly in over my head.

 

If they can't walk two blocks, boo hoo. Even Park Slope residents have to walk a few blocks to a subway station (and they don't have the option of taking a cab). Engineering would be a pain because of the high water table. I'm certainly for a 10th Avenue Line. Just don't know if you'd be able to get a few billion dollars to bring a subway station one block closer to a neighborhood that is already a short walk from most of the city's subway lines.

[bobtehpanda]

One of the alternatives for Second Avenue involved a light rail doing the jughandle around Alphabet City and then swinging down south.

For the LES and areas west of the , a light rail loop would be best, using, say, Chambers, West, 14th, Avenue B, and East Broadway.

[cl94]

One of the alternatives for Second Avenue involved a light rail doing the jughandle around Alphabet City and then swinging down south.

 

For the LES and areas west of the , a light rail loop would be best, using, say, Chambers, West, 14th, Avenue B, and East Broadway.

 

Light rail would be great for that area. Not really enough to justify building a new line, but would certainly see high ridership. Low-cost solution to a growing commuter base. Could probably even elevate it on an eye-friendly structure a la Vancouver

[bobtehpanda]

Light rail would be great for that area. Not really enough to justify building a new line, but would certainly see high ridership. Low-cost solution to a growing commuter base. Could probably even elevate it on an eye-friendly structure a la Vancouver

 

Vancouver's el's only work because they're located within wide rights of way. I was thinking more of a traditional light rail or streetcar system.

 

That being said, any route using Chambers would probably have to be partially tunneled in between Chinatown and City Hall, due to the fact that Chambers St and East Broadway are not directly connected by any road.

[cl94]

Vancouver's el's only work because they're located within wide rights of way. I was thinking more of a traditional light rail or streetcar system.

 

That being said, any route using Chambers would probably have to be partially tunneled in between Chinatown and City Hall, due to the fact that Chambers St and East Broadway are not directly connected by any road.

 

Biggest problem with at-grade is that Chambers and the WSH are often gridlocked. Although, 14th and WSH have room for a track without really hurting traffic. I'd be for a street-level system if the public would approve. Center-city Toronto is similar in density to Lower Manhattan and their streetcars work fine.

 

Knowing New York's legal system, I doubt they've gotten rid of the law banning street-level catenary in Manhattan, so anything would have to be powered via a conduit, which is extremely inefficient and relatively dangerous, especially in a city with significant snowfall.

[Missabassie]

Putting light-rail in manhattan will be disastrous...

this place really will be dodge city...

[Q19Astoria21St]

❾ : West Harlem-12 Av to Randall's Island- Icaahn Stadium

 

Via: 125th St. Local

 

Randall's Is. Bound

 

• West Harlem-12 Av

 

•Broadway / ❶

 

•St. Nicholas Av/ ACBD

 

•Lenox Ave / ❷,❸

 

Lexington / 4,5, 6

[cl94]

❾ : West Harlem-12 Av to Randall's Island- Icaahn Stadium

 

Via: 125th St. Local

 

Randall's Is. Bound

 

• West Harlem-12 Av

 

•Broadway / ❶

 

•St. Nicholas Av/ ACBD

 

•Lenox Ave / ❷,❸

 

Lexington / 4,5, 6

 

Common suggestion that I think is worth looking into. Lump that with the being extended to Broadway/125th after SAS is done. I'd make it B division, solely because it would have an easy connection to the at 125th/Lex. If we want to go crazy, lump this idea with the Long Island segment of the Triboro RX and we might get some QBL relief

[bobtehpanda]

Putting light-rail in manhattan will be disastrous... this place really will be dodge city...

 

Hey, maybe we can get the Dodgers back in the five boroughs then.

[Turbo19]

Hey, maybe we can get the Dodgers back in the five boroughs then.

They're ours now.

[trainfanrod]

We need the C TRAIN to run to far rockaway and the A to end at lefferts maybe at night the A BE Extended to far rockaway n keep the rockaway park shuttle I know that the E wouldn't come to Brooklyn because when the trains meet at Hoyt it's a headache and don't need another train to wait for. Also extend the j or z to Brooklyn via the R LINE or make the Z FULLTIME I hate how it runs for an hr on rush hrs or make the Z go on the R IN BROOKLYN the R NEEDS another train and it would help the j/Z customers from 4th ave. 5 run to Brooklyn till midnight

[trainfanrod]

Run the C to rockaway park and eliminate the SHUTTLE . Run the Z TO BAY PARKWAY VIA THE M PREVIOUS LINE AND MAKE IT RUN ALL DAY WHEN montague tunnel is done

[cl94]

We need the C TRAIN to run to far rockaway and the A to end at lefferts maybe at night the A BE Extended to far rockaway n keep the rockaway park shuttle I know that the E wouldn't come to Brooklyn because when the trains meet at Hoyt it's a headache and don't need another train to wait for. Also extend the j or z to Brooklyn via the R LINE or make the Z FULLTIME I hate how it runs for an hr on rush hrs or make the Z go on the R IN BROOKLYN the R NEEDS another train and it would help the j/Z customers from 4th ave. 5 run to Brooklyn till midnight

 

 

Run the C to rockaway park and eliminate the SHUTTLE . Run the Z TO BAY PARKWAY VIA THE M PREVIOUS LINE AND MAKE IT RUN ALL DAY WHEN montague tunnel is done

 

Okay, how do I phrase this nicely...

 

The is staying where it is

We all know how long and slow the and are. to Rockaway is by far the longest line in the system and one of the longest rapid transit lines in the world at 31 miles end-to-end. No way in hell should that ever be a local. The ends at a yard, as every line should.

 

Brooklyn-Nassau ridership is almost nonexistent

Countless other posters have mentioned how the was always empty when it ran on West End. Yes, the has its issues. Local service on 4th Avenue is miserable. That could be fixed by adding service or bringing back the and extending it down to 9th Avenue after SAS opens. As it goes to Broadway, that would get more through riders.

[lupojohn]

Okay, how do I phrase this nicely...

 

The is staying where it is

We all know how long and slow the and are. to Rockaway is by far the longest line in the system and one of the longest rapid transit lines in the world at 31 miles end-to-end. No way in hell should that ever be a local. The ends at a yard, as every line should.

 

Brooklyn-Nassau ridership is almost nonexistent

Countless other posters have mentioned how the was always empty when it ran on West End. Yes, the has its issues. Local service on 4th Avenue is miserable. That could be fixed by adding service or bringing back the and extending it down to 9th Avenue after SAS opens. As it goes to Broadway, that would get more through riders.

Where would you start the ? 

[RollOver]

As always, they want the to do the exact same thing the old brown did during rush hours, ran via Montague, 4th Ave and West End...even though many of those riders from the 4th Avenue, West End and Sea Beach lines are on their way to Midtown Manhattan than Downtown Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan...

[cl94]

Where would you start the ? 

 

 

As always, they want the to do the exact same thing the old brown did during rush hours, ran via Montague, 4th Ave and West End...even though many of those riders from the 4th Avenue, West End and Sea Beach lines are on their way to Midtown Manhattan than Downtown Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan...

 

I suggested it solely as a slightly-more useful alternative to sending Nassau service down there. Ideally, you'd just increase service on the (or have the run local on weekends), but the Forest Hills relay and 95th are (usually) at capacity during the week. That should all change when QBL, Broadway, and 4th Avenue get CBTC in the next 20 or so years, but until then, the needs a little help.

[lupojohn]

Extend the back to 71 Av, then?

[YankeesPwnMets]

Could this actually work? I thought that R142As were faster than R142s so that made them incompatible with each other

 

[darrylbaniaga38]

I mentioned this in another post, would running the express in Manhattan and local in Brooklyn do any good?  The would be helped out a little bit and those riders have another express option.