Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[Union Tpke]

That was the super-draconian '91 service cut proposal where they wanted to streamline to the bare minimum, eliminating the and having the go to 21St. St. all times except midnights. At first, the Q (on 6th Av) would be extended to 207th and the would become local to 168th. Then when people protested that, because the "A" is supposed to be the express (Like Duke Ellington said), then they basically renamed the 6th Ave. Q into a 6th Ave. A, and the would have replaced it on 8th Ave. from 34th St. to Queens. But that didn't fly either, and eventually, they stopped trying to cut back like that.

Just wondering but are there any documents or articles about these proposed cuts?

 

 

Using Tapatalk

 

 

[Eric B]

Back then before the Internet, the NY Division ERA Bulletin was where I got such info from. Just looked to see if I kept the article, but not finding it. I might not have kept that one.

There were also public hearings, and with them public hearing notices, and I know I don't have any of those

But you can look to see if they're available anywhere.

[bobtehpanda]

Just wondering but are there any documents or articles about these proposed cuts? Using Tapatalk

 

Your best bet would be to look at the New York Times archive. I doubt you'd be able to get your hands back on non-MTACC documents stretching that far back into the past; it's a miracle we have the brochures about the opening of the Archer Av extension.

[BxM4Woodlawn]

They should resend the B to 21st St sometimes or at least have it run on weekends again

[GreatOne2k]

They should resend the B to 21st St sometimes or at least have it run on weekends again

 

That would cause problems with the which runs through there

[lupojohn]

That would cause problems with the which runs through there

How?

[Fresh Pond]

How?

Really...

 

Queensbridge isn't a terminal station anymore, any train that terminates there would just block up trains passing through the station

[Jsunflyguy]

Oh come on, they'll have 9 minutes to turn the train...live a little guys!

[lupojohn]

Really...

 

Queensbridge isn't a terminal station anymore, any train that terminates there would just block up trains passing through the station

Could re-do it and turn it back into a terminal station.

[S78 via Hylan]

Could re-do it and turn it back into a terminal station.

But is it really worth the time, money, and construction?

[lupojohn]

But is it really worth the time, money, and construction?

Not saying it is.

[Missabassie]

Could re-do it and turn it back into a terminal station.

But is it really worth the time, money, and construction?

Hell no.....

[bobtehpanda]

Could re-do it and turn it back into a terminal station.

 

You'd need to either sever the 63rd St connector or build new tracks in a deep level station, both options that have significant drawbacks (plus, it cuts any sort of future 63rd St-SAS Lower service)

[Brighton Express]

Broadway / Brighton: The line is just absolutely cramped, and it starts in Manhattan with the . With the running all the way out to Astoria now, it takes forever for the damn train to come back to serve Broadway on the Express, causing the platforms to fill up. They used to just all get out at Church, but now its bringing people from stops way past that cramped up between 42 and Canal. We need the back to 57. Or running full time Express in Astoria, just something to get it back to Broadway faster.

 

I thought some about sending the down there. There is a transfer to almost every line through that Nassau St borough, and this could be instrumental in keeping the strain off. Of course, the would have to run longer, and Express past Myrtle Av to balance the less trains that we will be having up in that area. The , has to either be via the or the in Brooklyn, Express of course.

 

Culver: I know everyone hates those dreaded Express tracks, but they could be a lot more useful. I know the isn't running as frequently as it could be, and people are complaining a bit about that. If the ran Express from Church all the way to Bergen / Jay, assuming that a Local would leave every time an left, this problem would be a problem no more. I thought of the coming down and ending at Church, but that will just never happen with the .

 

Grand CC / Jerome Av: The and the should be using those Express tracks. Easier fix with the , just run the for longer. This would work mutually with both lines as it would take some strain off Brighton and Grand CC. The would just never work, with the already cramped up Lexington Express, but if there were some way, that would be really useful.

 

Fulton / Rockaway: The Express tracks past Rockaway Blvd are actually perfect. I have taken the line out there a couple times, and noticed that people don't get out until Lefferts. Could be a bit useful, but the fact that the train would empty at an already crowded Rockaway Blvd would make this not work out at all.

 

Flushing: The , same thing. The Express cuts way too early. People just ride the train to get out at Main St or Shea Stadium, which is a VERY long ride from Times Square. If the service just changed from midday and headed out towards Shea Stadium, that would work out perfectly. I heard that they used to do this, but stopped because of CBTC.

 

Broadway / 7 Av: The needs to have some sort of Express variant, call it the , from 96 St to 145 St. Everyone is just going to get off at 110, 116, or 168 St. But the amount of people that get off at 96 St from the 7 Av Express is insane. But they really need to do something about that, that is a waste of good trackage. I can't speak for the tracks above Dyckman though.

[GojiMet86]

 

 

Broadway / 7 Av: The needs to have some sort of Express variant, call it the , from 96 St to 145 St. Everyone is just going to get off at 110, 116, or 168 St. But the amount of people that get off at 96 St from the 7 Av Express is insane. But they really need to do something about that, that is a waste of good trackage. I can't speak for the tracks above Dyckman though.

 

If everyone is getting off at 110th and 116th (and 137th sees good usage), why run an express variant that skips those stops? It's not needed, and everyone would get mad. Most people that get off the express at 96th and into the get off at those stops. There is no need for an express there.

Edited March 9, 2014 by GojiMet86

[PATCOman]

 

Grand CC / Jerome Av: The and the should be using those Express tracks. Easier fix with the , just run the for longer. This would work mutually with both lines as it would take some strain off Brighton and Grand CC. The would just never work, with the already cramped up Lexington Express, but if there were some way, that would be really useful.

 

Fulton / Rockaway: The Express tracks past Rockaway Blvd are actually perfect. I have taken the line out there a couple times, and noticed that people don't get out until Lefferts. Could be a bit useful, but the fact that the train would empty at an already crowded Rockaway Blvd would make this not work out at all.

 

Flushing: The , same thing. The Express cuts way too early. People just ride the train to get out at Main St or Shea Stadium, which is a VERY long ride from Times Square. If the service just changed from midday and headed out towards Shea Stadium, that would work out perfectly. I heard that they used to do this, but stopped because of CBTC.

 

Broadway / 7 Av: The needs to have some sort of Express variant, call it the , from 96 St to 145 St. Everyone is just going to get off at 110, 116, or 168 St. But the amount of people that get off at 96 St from the 7 Av Express is insane. But they really need to do something about that, that is a waste of good trackage. I can't speak for the tracks above Dyckman though.

The 4 express idea won't work since that will skip too many important local stops (i.e 161, Fordham, Bedford Park)

 

There is no point in having the Lefferts A skip only 2 stops.  Plus trains are stored on the middle track during the middays.

 

The 7 is not all THAT long.

 

If people wanted a "quicker" ride to upper Manhattan/ Riverdale, they could just take the A to 168 and change to the 1, or even better, ride Metro North.

 

All because there are middle tracks throughout the system does not mean it is practical to run express service.

[qjtransitmaster]

The 4 express idea won't work since that will skip too many important local stops (i.e 161, Fordham, Bedford Park)

 

There is no point in having the Lefferts A skip only 2 stops.  Plus trains are stored on the middle track during the middays.

 

The 7 is not all THAT long.

 

If people wanted a "quicker" ride to upper Manhattan/ Riverdale, they could just take the A to 168 and change to the 1, or even better, ride Metro North.

 

All because there are middle tracks throughout the system does not mean it is practical to run express service.

 

 

The 4 express idea won't work since that will skip too many important local stops (i.e 161, Fordham, Bedford Park)

 

There is no point in having the Lefferts A skip only 2 stops.  Plus trains are stored on the middle track during the middays.

 

The 7 is not all THAT long.

 

If people wanted a "quicker" ride to upper Manhattan/ Riverdale, they could just take the A to 168 and change to the 1, or even better, ride Metro North.

 

All because there are middle tracks throughout the system does not mean it is practical to run express service.

Or LIRR!! Don't overestimate ridership from flushing many get on at local stops too.

[Union Tpke]

They should resend the B to 21st St sometimes or at least have it run on weekends again

Why?

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

The 4 express idea won't work since that will skip too many important local stops (i.e 161, Fordham, Bedford Park) There is no point in having the Lefferts A skip only 2 stops. Plus trains are stored on the middle track during the middays. The 7 is not all THAT long. If people wanted a "quicker" ride to upper Manhattan/ Riverdale, they could just take the A to 168 and change to the 1, or even better, ride Metro North. All because there are middle tracks throughout the system does not mean it is practical to run express service. The 4 express idea won't work since that will skip too many important local stops (i.e 161, Fordham, Bedford Park) There is no point in having the Lefferts A skip only 2 stops. Plus trains are stored on the middle track during the middays. The 7 is not all THAT long. If people wanted a "quicker" ride to upper Manhattan/ Riverdale, they could just take the A to 168 and change to the 1, or even better, ride Metro North. All because there are middle tracks throughout the system does not mean it is practical to run express service.Or LIRR!! Don't overestimate ridership from flushing many get on at local stops too.

St.

 

The 4 express idea won't work since that will skip too many important local stops (i.e 161, Fordham, Bedford Park) There is no point in having the Lefferts A skip only 2 stops. Plus trains are stored on the middle track during the middays. The 7 is not all THAT long. If people wanted a "quicker" ride to upper Manhattan/ Riverdale, they could just take the A to 168 and change to the 1, or even better, ride Metro North. All because there are middle tracks throughout the system does not mean it is practical to run express service. The 4 express idea won't work since that will skip too many important local stops (i.e 161, Fordham, Bedford Park) There is no point in having the Lefferts A skip only 2 stops. Plus trains are stored on the middle track during the middays. The 7 is not all THAT long. If people wanted a "quicker" ride to upper Manhattan/ Riverdale, they could just take the A to 168 and change to the 1, or even better, ride Metro North. All because there are middle tracks throughout the system does not mean it is practical to run express service.Or LIRR!! Don't overestimate ridership from flushing many get on at local stops too.

LIRR is overpriced. And the only important stop that the 7X skips is 74th Edited March 10, 2014 by N4 Via Merrick Rd

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Broadway / Brighton: The line is just absolutely cramped, and it starts in Manhattan with the . With the running all the way out to Astoria now, it takes forever for the damn train to come back to serve Broadway on the Express, causing the platforms to fill up. They used to just all get out at Church, but now its bringing people from stops way past that cramped up between 42 and Canal. We need the back to 57. Or running full time Express in Astoria, just something to get it back to Broadway faster.

 

I thought some about sending the down there. There is a transfer to almost every line through that Nassau St borough, and this could be instrumental in keeping the strain off. Of course, the would have to run longer, and Express past Myrtle Av to balance the less trains that we will be having up in that area. The , has to either be via the or the in Brooklyn, Express of course.

 

Culver: I know everyone hates those dreaded Express tracks, but they could be a lot more useful. I know the isn't running as frequently as it could be, and people are complaining a bit about that. If the ran Express from Church all the way to Bergen / Jay, assuming that a Local would leave every time an left, this problem would be a problem no more. I thought of the coming down and ending at Church, but that will just never happen with the .

The going back to 57th & 7th full-time is not happening unless the comes back (perhaps even before SAS opens if Gov. Cuomo doesn't get his wish to divert $40 million from the MTA to pay down the state's general debt). And forget about the Q going express in Astoria. They already tried that once before in 2001 when the W debuted and it failed. It saved very little time and the trains were empty while trains were overcrowded. The N cannot handle Astoria alone. And what exactly would sending the down the Brighton Line accomplish, given that it only serves Lower Manhattan and runs less frequently than the ? (Remember, it's combined J/Z service that runs 12 tph, not just the J or Z). The doesn't need to be (and should not be) rerouted via the or lines. You would have another failed W-express-in-Queens situation. Why would you want that? Not to mention that there are plenty of Brighton Line riders who want service to 6th Avenue (at least on weekdays).

 

As for Culver, the alone isn't going to cut it, not even if it leaves Church every time an arrives. It's been explained many times before why that's a non-starter.

Edited March 10, 2014 by T to Dyre Avenue

[bobtehpanda]

If, say, the was cut out of Astoria, how much could the frequency of the be boosted by? With two services in 60th St, what is the absolute maximum TPH that the can run?

[Lance]

You could obviously run the same amount of trains (just as all N trains), probably even more, but would you be providing the best possible service by running all those N trains? Unless some of them short-turn somewhere (let's say Whitehall), you'd be over-serving Sea Beach.

[Around the Horn]

Pardon me if anyone mentioned it but after Montague reopens i would send the down to 95th during the service hours of lower Nassau(5am Mon-1am Sat)

[Lance]

Nassau St-4th Avenue service has been pitched in various ways. Whether it's though sending the J to 95 St or 9 Av or bringing back the Nassau M, the answer has pretty much been the same. The ridership for such a service just isn't there. Most riders on the 4th Avenue local want Broadway service.

[cl94]

Pardon me if anyone mentioned it but after Montague reopens i would send the down to 95th during the service hours of lower Nassau(5am Mon-1am Sat)

 

 

Nassau St-4th Avenue service has been pitched in various ways. Whether it's though sending the J to 95 St or 9 Av or bringing back the Nassau M, the answer has pretty much been the same. The ridership for such a service just isn't there. Most riders on the 4th Avenue local want Broadway service.

 

You beat me to it. I'll add that 95th can't take another service unless the faces large cuts. As it is, both tracks are usually filled by a train. A train pulls out and another one fills that same track within a couple of minutes.