checkmatechamp13 Posted February 16, 2016 Share #1 Posted February 16, 2016 I was thinking of some short-turn points that aren't listed on the schedule, that are done at the dispatcher's discretion. M100: 129th Street (coming from the north) 5th Avenue (coming from the north) M101: 161st Street (coming from the south) Bx19: Lenox Avenue (coming from the east) M1/2/3/5: 42nd Street (coming from the north) M5: Chambers Street (coming from the north, or at least according to a video by a user here) What I mean by that, is for example on the M101, there is not a single bus scheduled to short-turn at 161st Street from the south. But something like the M5 short-turning at 135th Street doesn't count because even if that particular run might not have been scheduled to end at 135th, it's still a short-turn that's listed on the schedule (there's runs that travel from South Ferry to 135th, and 178th to 135th). What are some others you can think of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted February 16, 2016 Share #2 Posted February 16, 2016 The M1/2/3 also have a 26 Street Short-turn. The M103 also has a 96 Street short-turn from either direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 16, 2016 Share #3 Posted February 16, 2016 Plenty of M101's short-turn at 23rd street heading south... Q32's short turn at 42nd and 5th heading south... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share #4 Posted February 16, 2016 Alright, another one that comes to mind is the M101 at 23rd Street from the north (not sure if the M102/103 have some short-turns there as well). EDIT: Wow, VG8 beat me to it by seconds lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrainFanInfinity Posted February 16, 2016 Share #5 Posted February 16, 2016 M101 and M102 (and maybe M103) short turn at 42nd Street coming from the north. M42 short turn at Grand Central (Lexington Avenue) coming from the west, and 8th Avenue from the east. The sign reads "8 AV" but I've seen plenty of them terminate at 7th instead. Also M11 short turns at 34th Street from the north (usually the school trippers) and occasionally trips will originate from 42nd Street northbound if there are bad gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 16, 2016 Share #6 Posted February 16, 2016 Alright, another one that comes to mind is the M101 at 23rd Street from the north (not sure if the M102/103 have some short-turns there as well). EDIT: Wow, VG8 beat me to it by seconds lol Well yeah I know about them because too many of them short-turn when I need to go further south (i.e. 14th street) after using the BxM1 down to 34th and Lex... Really annoying... ------ Believe it or not some Riverdale express buses will try to "short-turn"... If they can skip Spuyten Duyvil and take Riverdale Avenue up to 239th they'll drop-off there and run empty to 261st or layover somewhere between 254th to 259th. Additionally if traffic is really bad along 7th, the BxM2 will run via 5th the entire way and "short-turn" by 34th and 6th, or anywhere that they can along 5th and head back up north via Madison. This was happening a lot during the December period... 9th Avenue has been another option for "short-turning" though this one hasn't been used in some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limitednyc Posted February 16, 2016 Share #7 Posted February 16, 2016 I was thinking of some short-turn points that aren't listed on the schedule, that are done at the dispatcher's discretion. M100: 129th Street (coming from the north) 5th Avenue (coming from the north) M101: 161st Street (coming from the south) Bx19: Lenox Avenue (coming from the east) M1/2/3/5: 42nd Street (coming from the north) M5: Chambers Street (coming from the north, or at least according to a video by a user here) What I mean by that, is for example on the M101, there is not a single bus scheduled to short-turn at 161st Street from the south. But something like the M5 short-turning at 135th Street doesn't count because even if that particular run might not have been scheduled to end at 135th, it's still a short-turn that's listed on the schedule (there's runs that travel from South Ferry to 135th, and 178th to 135th). What are some others you can think of? because they are not scheduled trips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JubaionBx12+SBS Posted February 16, 2016 Share #8 Posted February 16, 2016 Bx12 SBS buses have been turned around at University Avenue going Westbound. The schedule doesn't have any short turns at all to my surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share #9 Posted February 16, 2016 Believe it or not some Riverdale express buses will try to "short-turn"... If they can skip Spuyten Duyvil and take Riverdale Avenue up to 239th they'll drop-off there and run empty to 261st or layover somewhere between 254th to 259th. Well, that's not too shocking. Even on local routes, some drivers will terminate early if there's nobody left on the bus and they're a few blocks from the terminal (for example, I've seen S46 buses drop people off by Brabant & Grandview, and then make a right on South to head back to the depot). I remember once I was the last one on the X11 and asked to be let off at Richmond Avenue, so the guy made a right onto Richmond and let me off at the X10 stop (surprising that nobody wanted to go to Travis). But those are things that the B/Os are doing themselves (which I agree with, since the passengers aren't being negatively impacted), rather than an official order. Additionally if traffic is really bad along 7th, the BxM2 will run via 5th the entire way and "short-turn" by 34th and 6th, or anywhere that they can along 5th and head back up north via Madison. This was happening a lot during the December period... 9th Avenue has been another option for "short-turning" though this one hasn't been used in some time. You mean they won't go across Central Park during those times? because they are not scheduled trips Where's your proof for that? Bx12 SBS buses have been turned around at University Avenue going Westbound. The schedule doesn't have any short turns at all to my surprise. Interesting. I guess Pelham Bay Park is probably used as well, right? Has White Plains Road or Fordham Plaza ever been used to your knowledge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted February 16, 2016 Share #10 Posted February 16, 2016 M1/M2/M3/M4 Southbound: Sometimes 59th St, 42nd St. M57 Westbound- 57th St/Broadway-8th Av Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 16, 2016 Share #11 Posted February 16, 2016 Well, that's not too shocking. Even on local routes, some drivers will terminate early if there's nobody left on the bus and they're a few blocks from the terminal (for example, I've seen S46 buses drop people off by Brabant & Grandview, and then make a right on South to head back to the depot). I remember once I was the last one on the X11 and asked to be let off at Richmond Avenue, so the guy made a right onto Richmond and let me off at the X10 stop (surprising that nobody wanted to go to Travis). But those are things that the B/Os are doing themselves (which I agree with, since the passengers aren't being negatively impacted), rather than an official order. You mean they won't go across Central Park during those times? Well sometimes drivers will try to negotiate... I had one guy ask me where I was going so I tell him I need 57th and 7th. Then I said if he could stop along 5th and 42nd that would be great, so he instead drops me at 5th and 57th which I wasn't expecting since we had agreed on 5th and 42nd. So after a back and forth with me asking him where he's going, he tells me he is turning onto 56th and going back to Madison. I was rather annoyed since I had to walk up hill to get to 7th and 57th... As for your other question, yes many of them will skip going through the 79th street Transverse and just go down 5th and come over to 7th via Central Park South if no one needs stops west of 5th and 79th. Some have even agreed to stay on 5th with passengers when I've asked since they already skipped the whole west side and if the passengers were cool with it, it was fine by them. They can still "short-turn" along 34th street and not go over to 7th and avoid the traffic, which some of them do. 72nd and Amsterdam is also often skipped where possible so that they just turn onto 63rd from Central Park West. Allows them to skip a few lights and move quicker to get to Midtown. The Southbound trips tends to take longer than going Northbound, so by skipping certain stops, it sort of evens things out due to longer lights Southbound. That's also why it was moved to Central Park West... It's interesting to note that I've been on no BxM1's that have short-turned Southbound... All BxM2's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaTransitMan4608 Posted February 16, 2016 Share #12 Posted February 16, 2016 I've seen some M101s turn at 96th too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 16, 2016 Share #13 Posted February 16, 2016 I've seen some M101s turn at 96th too. M102's as well... There's a crosstown bus that also terminates at 5th Avenue... I wanna say the M96, but I can't recall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegoBrickBreaker101 Posted February 16, 2016 Share #14 Posted February 16, 2016 Interesting. I guess Pelham Bay Park is probably used as well, right? Has White Plains Road or Fordham Plaza ever been used to your knowledge? The only short turns for the Bx12 SBS are University and Pelham Bay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaTransitMan4608 Posted February 16, 2016 Share #15 Posted February 16, 2016 M102's as well... There's a crosstown bus that also terminates at 5th Avenue... I wanna say the M96, but I can't recall... Closest I can think of is the M100. But that's not really considered a Xtown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 16, 2016 Share #16 Posted February 16, 2016 The M7 also appears to have short-turns to 125th I believe... Closest I can think of is the M100. But that's not really considered a Xtown. It actually was a M96... They tend to run in packs so one short-turned at 5th and 96th. I forget which direction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share #17 Posted February 16, 2016 Well sometimes drivers will try to negotiate... I had one guy ask me where I was going so I tell him I need 57th and 7th. Then I said if he could stop along 5th and 42nd that would be great, so he instead drops me at 5th and 57th which I wasn't expecting since we had agreed on 5th and 42nd. So after a back and forth with me asking him where he's going, he tells me he is turning onto 56th and going back to Madison. I was rather annoyed since I had to walk up hill to get to 7th and 57th... As for your other question, yes many of them will skip going through the 79th street Transverse and just go down 5th and come over to 7th via Central Park South if no one needs stops west of 5th and 79th. Some have even agreed to stay on 5th with passengers when I've asked since they already skipped the whole west side and if the passengers were cool with it, it was fine by them. They can still "short-turn" along 34th street and not go over to 7th and avoid the traffic, which some of them do. 72nd and Amsterdam is also often skipped where possible so that they just turn onto 63rd from Central Park West. Allows them to skip a few lights and move quicker to get to Midtown. The Southbound trips tends to take longer than going Northbound, so by skipping certain stops, it sort of evens things out due to longer lights Southbound. That's also why it was moved to Central Park West... It's interesting to note that I've been on no BxM1's that have short-turned Southbound... All BxM2's... So wait, that driver was short-turning at 57th because of a detour or something? (Or else, why would he be going up 56th to Madison?) In general, I'm focusing on local buses for this thread, though. Express buses are a little different, since they have a little more flexibility on the drop-off portion, and it would also screw over people on the return trip. (And if there is no return trip, then there's really no reason to short-turn until all passengers have exited the bus). I've seen some M101s turn at 96th too. There's a million of those. They're listed on the schedule, so they don't count for the purposes of the thread. The only short turns for the Bx12 SBS are University and Pelham Bay Cool. Do you know of the short-turn points for the local? (If any) The M7 also appears to have short-turns to 125th I believe... Interesting... It actually was a M96... They tend to run in packs so one short-turned at 5th and 96th. I forget which direction... If I had to bet, I'd say it was from the east. I remember somebody else mentioning the M66 (I think it was) also had some short-turns at 5th, traveling solely within the UES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaTransitMan4608 Posted February 16, 2016 Share #18 Posted February 16, 2016 There's a million of those. They're listed on the schedule, so they don't count for the purposes of the thread. My apologies. This one (possibly) unscheduled one I witnessed the other day was an M60 SBS turning at 125th-2nd Ave. Heading towards LGA mind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 16, 2016 Share #19 Posted February 16, 2016 From any route in the system? Far too many to list..... I've thought of creating a thread (albeit back on RD) years ago with a list of short turns, but to be honest, I simply forgot about doing it..... In relevance to the thread, I'll just point this out for now.... I never really understood why the B46 short turn at Av H is designated on the buses (destination sign) as ending at Kings Highway...... And of course, the Fillmore short turns aren't on the timetable at all..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JubaionBx12+SBS Posted February 16, 2016 Share #20 Posted February 16, 2016 Short turns on Manhattan crosstowns amuse me since they're mostly short routes to begin with. When routes with run-times around a half hour need to be short turned midway there's a huge problem keeping buses on schedule. As far as the Bx12 is concerned I have yet to see a local bus get short-turned and they really shouldn't be since they act as the short turns for the Select. White Plains Rd and Fordham Plaza are also terrible places to short turn buses given the amount of traffic in the area and the fact that there's no where to turn the bus before it's next stop. The demand as those stops is also really high in both directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOQV Posted February 16, 2016 Share #21 Posted February 16, 2016 I've driven the M102 and was told to short turn at 125 street and Lenox avenue a couple of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share #22 Posted February 16, 2016 From any route in the system? Far too many to list..... I've thought of creating a thread (albeit back on RD) years ago with a list of short turns, but to be honest, I simply forgot about doing it..... In relevance to the thread, I'll just point this out for now.... I never really understood why the B46 short turn at Av H is designated on the buses (destination sign) as ending at Kings Highway...... And of course, the Fillmore short turns aren't on the timetable at all..... Are the Fillmore short-turns school trips? (There's probably no way to know for sure, but are they traveling around school dismissal times?) My apologies. This one (possibly) unscheduled one I witnessed the other day was an M60 SBS turning at 125th-2nd Ave. Heading towards LGA mind you. No problem. And yeah, that's interesting. I guess maybe there was a problem on the bridge and they wanted to keep enough buses in Manhattan to mitigate delays. (I wonder if there were any short-turns on the opposite end running from LGA to the ) I've driven the M102 and was told to short turn at 125 street and Lenox avenue a couple of times. Interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted February 16, 2016 Share #23 Posted February 16, 2016 Wayyy too many to list. Might as well look at the code list for the buses and start looking from there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted February 16, 2016 Share #24 Posted February 16, 2016 Are the Fillmore short-turns school trips? (There's probably no way to know for sure, but are they traveling around school dismissal times?) Oh nah, Not at all (school trippers).... You'll see em at random times of the day (including weekends).... They're the SB trips that don't run all the way down to Kings Plaza.... Highly likely exist b/c the depot is right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Bus Co. Posted February 16, 2016 Share #25 Posted February 16, 2016 I was thinking of some short-turn points that aren't listed on the schedule, that are done at the dispatcher's discretion. M100: 129th Street (coming from the north) That dates back to when the M100 was assigned to Amsterdam Depot and ran all the way up to Riverdale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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