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BrooklynBus

Queens Community Board 14 Withdraws their support for the Woodhaven Blvd SBS

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Only two Board members voted to support DOT's latest proposal to install SBS on Woodhaven and Cross Bay Blvd at the March 22nd, 2017 meeting after seeing the presentation given by the Queens Public Transit Committe about SBS. The presentation and a PDF of the presentation are available at this link: http://qptc.org/cb14powerpoint.html

 

It was also sent to DOT and the MTA for them to correct any statements they believe are incorrect. If any responses are received, they will be posted in this thread.

Edited by BrooklynBus

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On what grounds is support being withdrawn? The objections to the Woodhaven SBS are mostly coming from a pro-car position so I'm having trouble seeing what direction the community wants to go as far as improving bus service.

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On what grounds is support being withdrawn? The objections to the Woodhaven SBS are mostly coming from a pro-car position so I'm having trouble seeing what direction the community wants to go as far as improving bus service.

These people sicken me because they think they live in the suburbs somewhere.  All they care about is their damn cars and screw the people that use the buses out there.  It's incredible.  We're in NYC, and cars aren't king here.  The sooner that they get that better we'll be.  I don't even want to hear of how the DOT is so horrible because they're cutting out lanes.  Blah blah blah.  

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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On what grounds is support being withdrawn? The objections to the Woodhaven SBS are mostly coming from a pro-car position so I'm having trouble seeing what direction the community wants to go as far as improving bus service.

You obviously didn't bother to even look at the presentation. If you did, the answer to your question would have been obvious.

 

And that also goes for you is Garibaldi. You are so sure SBS on Woodhaven is a good idea, your mind is cmpletely closed to any reason.

 

And they care a lot more than their cars. Many use the buses and the subway.

 

And as far as eliminating curbside parking which is proposed for rush hours only, no one objected to that. The QPTC suggested it is only necessary for the peak direction, not both directions as DOT proposed.

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You obviously didn't bother to even look at the presentation. If you did, the answer to your question would have been obvious.

 

And that also goes for you is Garibaldi. You are so sure SBS on Woodhaven is a good idea, your mind is cmpletely closed to any reason.

 

And they care a lot more than their cars. Many use the buses and the subway.

 

And as far as eliminating curbside parking which is proposed for rush hours only, no one objected to that. The QPTC suggested it is only necessary for the peak direction, not both directions as DOT proposed.

Uh I'm not so sure of anything.  What I am sure about is these people are obsessed with their cars.  

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On what grounds is support being withdrawn? The objections to the Woodhaven SBS are mostly coming from a pro-car position so I'm having trouble seeing what direction the community wants to go as far as improving bus service.

 

Their (unstated) goal is to get rid of all buses on Woodhaven.

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Their (unstated) goal is to get rid of all buses on Woodhaven.

And what proof do you have to make such a ludicrous statement?

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And what proof do you have to make such a ludicrous statement?

Please.  Anyone with half of a brain knows exactly what type of neighborhoods Woodhaven Blvd run through, and they are car centric.  

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Uh I'm not so sure of anything.  What I am sure about is these people are obsessed with their cars.  

 

They are obsessed with their cars for good reason -- because mass transit sucks in Queens. And part of the reason isn't the MTA. It's because service was bad with the privates, and the MTA made few improvements. A perfect example is the Q101 on Steinway Street. That is a major business corridor and scheduled headways are like every 20 or 30 minutes outside of rush hours. Had Steinway Street been in Brooklyn and it had been an NYCTA route, headways would have been every ten minutes.

 

If service were increased on that route, patronage would soar. But the MTA does not believe in experimentation. They want ridership to go up before they increase service and that rarely happens unless there is new development.

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Their (unstated) goal is to get rid of all buses on Woodhaven.

If that were the case, kindly explain why the Board's first vote was in favor of SBS before they heard the presentation where they learned the true facts, in addition to all DOT's misleading statements.

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They are obsessed with their cars for good reason -- because mass transit sucks in Queens.

 

It's never even worth replying on these articles, but your solution to bad mass transit is to stop mass transit improvement. Let that sink in. 

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It's never even worth replying on these articles, but your solution to bad mass transit is to stop mass transit improvement. Let that sink in.

 

What mass transit improvement are you talking about? I don't see one. Calling SBS on Woodhaven a mass transit improvement doesn't make it an improvement. Read the presentation and then let's discuss the issues.

 

Let it sink in that your refusal to do that discredits your allegation that it is an improvement. Just because DOT falsely claims it is an improvement does not make it so.

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What mass transit improvement are you talking about? I don't see one. Calling SBS on Woodhaven a mass transit improvement doesn't make it an improvement. Read the presentation and then let's discuss the issues.

 

Let it sink in that your refusal to do that discredits your allegation that it is an improvement. Just because DOT falsely claims it is an improvement does not make it so.

It may not be an improvement, but it's a step in the right direction. Especially with a corridor as ridership heavy as Woodhaven. The Q52/53 need something done. Yeah, SBS has its faults, but what other option is there? These folks are already refusing to budge in terms of reactivating the RBB.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

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Read the powerpoint felt like it tried to pull every excuse out of the hat to stop SBS. First Off Board Payment I been on the Q53, the dwell time is insane, especially at SubwaY Transfer points (Rockaway Bl). Median Bus Stops- ​Passengers are not put in dangers long ass there are proper crosswalks. Patronage Decline- bus Ridership is declining in every borough except for Queens and Staten island. This Corrider saw an increase in riders (especially Limited Service at the expense of local). Having SBS, faster bus service allows ridership to increase. The reason why M15 decrease is because the bus lanes are NEVER used. People double park on it, leading to slow travel time. Rockaway Local Stops- With articulated buses and bigger bus stop, maybe not the one DOT listed, the crowds could be handled. They could also always take the subway. pretty sure Q52 to Far Rockaway was just a political stunt to get their support 

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It may not be an improvement, but it's a step in the right direction. Especially with a corridor as ridership heavy as Woodhaven. The Q52/53 need something done. Yeah, SBS has its faults, but what other option is there? These folks are already refusing to budge in terms of reactivating the RBB.

Sent from my iPhone using NYC Transit Forums mobile app

It's a step in the wrong direction. You cannot just look at bus patronage while ignoring everyone else using the corridor and slowing their trip times significantly.

 

The presentation outlined the changes that need to be made to make SBS workable on Woodhaven. As far as the RBL, let's wait until the conclusion of the MTA study.

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Read the powerpoint felt like it tried to pull every excuse out of the hat to stop SBS. First Off Board Payment I been on the Q53, the dwell time is insane, especially at SubwaY Transfer points (Rockaway Bl). Median Bus Stops- ​Passengers are not put in dangers long ass there are proper crosswalks. Patronage Decline- bus Ridership is declining in every borough except for Queens and Staten island. This Corrider saw an increase in riders (especially Limited Service at the expense of local). Having SBS, faster bus service allows ridership to increase. The reason why M15 decrease is because the bus lanes are NEVER used. People double park on it, leading to slow travel time. Rockaway Local Stops- With articulated buses and bigger bus stop, maybe not the one DOT listed, the crowds could be handled. They could also always take the subway. pretty sure Q52 to Far Rockaway was just a political stunt to get their support

 

Only agree with you about the last point about the Q52 being a stunt.

 

off Board fare payment. if it saves so much time, why on the M86 did the MTA tell the community buses only saved an average of two minutes river to river. When further questioned about savings in the rush hour only, the MTA refused to respond. If a few intersections on Woodhaven have extra long loading times, the MTA could do what was done in the 1950's and 60's. Station an attendant on the sidewalk during the rush hour at the rear door to accept payment allowing entrance through the rear door. It would cut dwell times in half and cost must less.

 

patronage decline Yes generally it is on a decline. SBS was supposed to stop that but in most cases, that hasn't happened. The M15 has a lot of problems which caused the massive passenger decline not totally attributable to SBS, such as Second Avenue Subway Construction and chronic congestion near the 59 Street Bridge. But those problems were known before the project start but that corridor was chosen anyway.

 

Rockaway Local bus stops No one is considering the time lost walking further to an SBS bus stop which is especially inconvenient lugging beach gear. The line at B116 St on a summer weekend extends for half the block. With elimination of adjacent stops, the line will stretch around the block. So you first have to lug your beach gear to the front of the stop to get your receipt, then walk around the block to get to the end of the line and then retrace your steps again. How convenient is that? Have you seen the summer crowds until 8 PM at B96 and 98 Streets. It's like over 50 people. The Beach 96 Street sidewalk is narrow and can't hold that many people. It is just unsafe. As far as them taking the subway instead, if that was easier, then why aren't they doing that now?

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On what grounds is support being withdrawn? The objections to the Woodhaven SBS are mostly coming from a pro-car position so I'm having trouble seeing what direction the community wants to go as far as improving bus service.

 

isn't that what similarly killed the merrick blvd sbs?

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I have a feeling the same fate is gonna happen to the Woodhaven Blvd SBS and no new buses for that service.

 

But until these people come up with any ideas, it's best not to give up hope. I agree with BrooklynBus on this. You keep fighting the boards until their asses suffers the L

 

 

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isn't that what similarly killed the merrick blvd sbs?

Not sure what killed Merritt, but times are different today. DeBlasio stated that Community Boards don't have the final word. That means he will push through SBS even if every single Board votes against it because he has the arrogant belief that the city knows best and the people are too dumb to know what is good for them or not.

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also when they change over the fare system they should allow tap payments with a tap card or through the phone with an app etc

That was one of the points in the presentation. The millions of dollars invested and to be invested in all the fare machines will be wasted when MetroCard is replaced. My father always used to complain to me about similar waste around 1950. All the rails were replaced on the B46 Utica Avenue line (and who knows where else) just three years before trolley service was abandoned.

 

Seems like nothing changes. I think that is this type of waste why Trump wants to concentrate on rebuilding the infrastructure rather than invest in new transit projects. With transit funds so scarce, it is imperative we do not waste the little that we have.

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Only agree with you about the last point about the Q52 being a stunt.

 

off Board fare payment. if it saves so much time, why on the M86 did the MTA tell the community buses only saved an average of two minutes river to river. When further questioned about savings in the rush hour only, the MTA refused to respond. If a few intersections on Woodhaven have extra long loading times, the MTA could do what was done in the 1950's and 60's. Station an attendant on the sidewalk during the rush hour at the rear door to accept payment allowing entrance through the rear door. It would cut dwell times in half and cost must less.

Bus Lanes are still better than regular traffic Lanes. M86 I don't believe has Bus Lanes only "Jump Lanes". Regarding Attendant, wouldn't that cost more in the long term, rather than just have random enforcement (with additional ticket revenue)

patronage decline Yes generally it is on a decline. SBS was supposed to stop that but in most cases, that hasn't happened. The M15 has a lot of problems which caused the massive passenger decline not totally attributable to SBS, such as Second Avenue Subway Construction and chronic congestion near the 59 Street Bridge. But those problems were known before the project start but that corridor was chosen anyway.

Corridor was chosen probably because they felt there could be improvements (which never materialized due to lax enforcement of Bus Lanes)

Rockaway Local bus stops No one is considering the time lost walking further to an SBS bus stop which is especially inconvenient lugging beach gear. The line at B116 St on a summer weekend extends for half the block. With elimination of adjacent stops, the line will stretch around the block. So you first have to lug your beach gear to the front of the stop to get your receipt, then walk around the block to get to the end of the line and then retrace your steps again. How convenient is that? Have you seen the summer crowds until 8 PM at B96 and 98 Streets. It's like over 50 people. The Beach 96 Street sidewalk is narrow and can't hold that many people. It is just unsafe. As far as them taking the subway instead, if that was easier, then why aren't they doing that  now?                                                                                                                                                                                  A lot of the ridership on Woodhaven Limited came FROM the local buses. The Q11/21 had their headways severly eroded. That shows that either way riders are already walking to the nearest Limited Stop. SBS won't change that. Atlantic Av will be replaced by another stop nearby. Regarding Rockaway Stops bus bulbs will probably work and create additional space (with loss of parking).                                                            

Edited by Mtatransit

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That was one of the points in the presentation. The millions of dollars invested and to be invested in all the fare machines will be wasted when MetroCard is replaced. My father always used to complain to me about similar waste around 1950. All the rails were replaced on the B46 Utica Avenue line (and who knows where else) just three years before trolley service was abandoned.

 

Seems like nothing changes. I think that is this type of waste why Trump wants to concentrate on rebuilding the infrastructure rather than invest in new transit projects. With transit funds so scarce, it is imperative we do not waste the little that we have.

Why can't upgrade the machines? My guys could retrofit a unit for $180-$200 a pop. RFID and ARM based Linux or Android unit could ALMOST do the trick. Technology is obsolete as soon as you take it out-of-the-box your not fully starting from scratch in this case. I don't know anything about Buses but I can tell you that. 

Edited by RailRunRob
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