Bx9 SBS Study

[Lawrence St]

If everyone remembers, the Bx9 was selected to be a part of the SBS Study. Me, since I take the Bx9 everyday, believe that the issue itself within the Bx9 is the extreme lateness. This is caused by the already overcrowded Broadway, since there is only one usable lane in both directions. If the Bx9 does get selected in the future for SBS conversion, the main points I think that need to be implemented are:

Make the outerlanes on Broadway the bus only lanes from 7 AM to 9 PM on weekdays.

Create new short turns to Van Cortlandt Park to not clog up 262nd St.

Increase frequency.

Add bus lanes to Southern Blvd.

Possible extension to Hugh Grant Circle.

Retain local Bx9 servixe but have a new SBS limited stop variant running all times except late nights.

What do you think?

[IRT Bronx Express]

I personally believe that both the Bx9 and the Q44 need to be rerouted away from Boston Road. It's so bothersome that the Bx21 and Bx36 buses have to put up with that puny lane while both the Bx9/Q44 have to make that left turn, thus delaying service even more. I would rather send both buses to East 180 St, then turn at Morris Park Avenue then Tremont and then Devoe Ave. This problem IMO should be rectified first.

Oh, and just like Westchester Square, I would ban any left turns for those heading towards west.

[Lawrence St]

But it seems like the main problem as to why the Bx9 is always late is because of Broadway due to those tiny one lane streets under the EL. There are numerous amounts of parking lots near Broadway so why not install bus lanes on the outer lanes? 

Like the problem becomes even more worse when there is traffic or an accident, then the whole corridor shuts down, moving at least 1 mph every 10 minutes.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

But it seems like the main problem as to why the Bx9 is always late is because of Broadway due to those tiny one lane streets under the EL. There are numerous amounts of parking lots near Broadway so why not install bus lanes on the outer lanes? 

Like the problem becomes even more worse when there is traffic or an accident, then the whole corridor shuts down, moving at least 1 mph every 10 minutes.

Broadway needs to be restructured under the EL.  It's long overdue because all of the buses that have to use it become stuck and crawl from 230th to 231st.  The Bx9 has it the worst because it uses Broadway all the way from 225th.  For a while banning or limiting taxis from picking up had been considered and I'd say it doesn't go far enough. You need to limit the amount of car traffic along that corridor to keep traffic flowing.  The problem is Broadway is also a business corridor so people want to drive and shop there.  Ultimately there's limited space and there has to be a way to maximize that.

[Lawrence St]

I just said, you can ban traffic on the outer lanes and have those become bus only lanes. They have lots of parking lots available nearby.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I just said, you can ban traffic on the outer lanes and have those become bus only lanes. They have lots of parking lots available nearby.

Those parking lots are for paying customers only though and they tow cars aggressively if you park there and even think about going elsewhere other than the place that the parking spots are for.

[Lawrence St]

10 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Those parking lots are for paying customers only though and they tow cars aggressively if you park there and even think about going elsewhere other than the place that the parking spots are for.

Well what do you propose they do? You can't reroute the Bx9 away from Broadway.

[checkmatechamp13]

Right turns are permitted from bus lanes, so it might still help a little bit.

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

27 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Well what do you propose they do? You can't reroute the Bx9 away from Broadway.

This is how I'd plan the Bx9 SBS if it were to be a thing (which I wouldn't totally be against)... an easy way to avoid the whole Broadway problem is to have there be a Bx9 Local and a Bx9 SBS:

The Bx9 Local would run its normal route along Broadway and Kingsbridge Road, and the Bx9 SBS would use Bailey Avenue instead from 225th Street to Van Cortlandt Park South. This way you can avoid having the SBS run underneath the EL and it wouldn't be too far away from Broadway itself (the farthest Bailey Avenue is from Broadway is 1,480 ft and that's only near VCP where the bus probably wouldn't be stopping). Routing would also be the same distance (6.5 miles northbound and 6.2 southbound). Only downside would be that the SBS route wouldn't directly serve the (1) except at 242nd, but at least riders can still take the Bx9 local for Broadway, and this in turn means that the Bx9 SBS wouldn't have to deal with all the Broadway traffic.

Stops I'd have for the Bx9 SBS would be (both directions):

Tremont Ave And Boston Rd

E 180th St and Boston Rd

E 180th St and Southern Blvd

Southern Blvd and Fordham Rd

Fordham Rd and Fordham Plz

Kingsbridge Rd and Grand Concourse

Kingsbridge Rd and Jerome Ave

Kingsbridge Rd and University Ave

Kingsbridge Rd and Sedgwick Ave

Kingsbridge Rd and Bailey Ave / Heath Ave

Bailey Ave and 231st St

Bailey Ave and 238th St

Broadway and 242nd St

Broadway and 254th St

Broadway and 262nd St

[Via Garibaldi 8]

58 minutes ago, LegoBrickBreaker101 said:

This is how I'd plan the Bx9 SBS if it were to be a thing (which I wouldn't totally be against)... an easy way to avoid the whole Broadway problem is to have there be a Bx9 Local and a Bx9 SBS:

The Bx9 Local would run its normal route along Broadway and Kingsbridge Road, and the Bx9 SBS would use Bailey Avenue instead from 225th Street to Van Cortlandt Park South. This way you can avoid having the SBS run underneath the EL and it wouldn't be too far away from Broadway itself (the farthest Bailey Avenue is from Broadway is 1,480 ft and that's only near VCP where the bus probably wouldn't be stopping). Routing would also be the same distance (6.5 miles northbound and 6.2 southbound). Only downside would be that the SBS route wouldn't directly serve the except at 242nd, but at least riders can still take the Bx9 local for Broadway, and this in turn means that the Bx9 SBS wouldn't have to deal with all the Broadway traffic.

Stops I'd have for the Bx9 SBS would be (both directions):

Tremont Ave And Boston Rd

E 180th St and Boston Rd

E 180th St and Southern Blvd

Southern Blvd and Fordham Rd

Fordham Rd and Fordham Plz

Kingsbridge Rd and Grand Concourse

Kingsbridge Rd and Jerome Ave

Kingsbridge Rd and University Ave

Kingsbridge Rd and Sedgwick Ave

Kingsbridge Rd and Bailey Ave / Heath Ave

Bailey Ave and 231st St

Bailey Ave and 238th St

Broadway and 242nd St

Broadway and 254th St

Broadway and 262nd St

242nd to 254th??? How did you come up with the stops along Broadway from 242nd exactly? How you physically been along Broadway in Riverdale, or did you just look at a map?

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

9 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

242nd to 254th??? How did you come up with the stops along Broadway from 242nd exactly? How you physically been along Broadway in Riverdale, or did you just look at a map?

I figured there shouldn't be so many stops on the Bx9 SBS, since there IS a local variant. I've also taken the Bx9 south of the HH Parkway for the past 4 years, and IMO there doesn't have to be a lot of stops from 262nd to 242nd.

 

However, if I were to revise the stops along Broadway, I'd add a stop at 251st, making the distances between SBS stops along Broadway approx. 0.5 miles apart. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

34 minutes ago, LegoBrickBreaker101 said:

I figured there shouldn't be so many stops on the Bx9 SBS, since there IS a local variant. I've also taken the Bx9 south of the HH Parkway for the past 4 years, and IMO there doesn't have to be a lot of stops from 262nd to 242nd.

 

However, if I were to revise the stops along Broadway, I'd add a stop at 251st, making the distances between SBS stops along Broadway approx. 0.5 miles apart. 

While that is true, 262nd to 242nd isn't a part of the route that is a problem. Having so few stops would be worse than what the BxM3 does. At a minimum I would have it follow a similar stop setup as that is a long distance to have so few stops. Something like 242nd, 246th, 251st, 254th and 262nd. You have to realize that there's no real street grid in Riverdale and while it may seem like it isn't far between stops it is, especially along Broadway, not to mention the hilly terrain. People in North Riverdale should have equal access to both lines.

[Lawrence St]

7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

While that is true, 262nd to 242nd isn't a part of the route that is a problem. Having so few stops would be worse than what the BxM3 does. At a minimum I would have it follow a similar stop setup as that is a long distance to have so few stops. Something like 242nd, 246th, 251st, 254th and 262nd. You have to realize that there's no real street grid in Riverdale and while it may seem like it isn't far between stops it is, especially along Broadway, not to mention the hilly terrain. People in North Riverdale should have equal access to both lines.

Not true, some people along the Bx6 only have access to the local. However, service in the PM rush isn't as frequent as it needs to be towards Riverdale, because most of the buses start ending at Marble Hill.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Not true, some people along the Bx6 only have access to the local. However, service in the PM rush isn't as frequent as it needs to be towards Riverdale, because most of the buses start ending at Marble Hill.

What do you mean not true? 262nd to 242nd is not where the bus is stuck in traffic. I know because I live in Riverdale and sometimes use the BxM3 along Broadway. The Bx6 has nothing to do with whether or not the Bx9 SBS should have more stops. You're comparing oranges to apples. 

[Lawrence St]

37 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

What do you mean not true? 262nd to 242nd is not where the bus is stuck in traffic. I know because I live in Riverdale and sometimes use the BxM3 along Broadway. The Bx6 has nothing to do with whether or not the Bx9 SBS should have more stops. You're comparing oranges to apples. 

I'm not, I'm saying when you add a limited stop service to a local line, it shouldn't stop at the same 75% of stops that the local does. The BxM3 only sees that ridership is because it's an express bus.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

I'm not, I'm saying when you add a limited stop service to a local line, it shouldn't stop at the same 75% of stops that the local does. The BxM3 only sees that ridership is because it's an express bus.

It also shouldn't run like it's am express subway line.  Just about all SBS lines essentially make stops like a LOCAL subway would.  If you space stops too far apart, you make the service inaccessible. People are only willing to walk but so far for a bus, and the idea is to make both services available to those who need it.  You propose this set up to make your commute faster, but it isn't just about you.  242nd, 246th, 254th and 262nd.  That's four stops.  Not the end of the world.  You aren't going to save that much time anyway because it's roughly 5 - 7 minutes from 242nd to 262nd, be it the local or the SBS, so it makes no sense to have the stops spaced so far apart.  The 246th street stop isn't that heavily used, so most of the time, you'd really only be stopping maybe at 254th and then 262nd.

[GreatOne2k]

People near the Bronx / Westchester (or Riverdale / Yonkers) border can pack the W1, or W2 for quicker service to/from 242 St

[checkmatechamp13]

I think what it really comes down to is by the time a Bx9 SBS comes under consideration, whether they will have an off-board payment system that is as machinery-intensive as the current SBS system (in which case, it would make sense to have fewer stops), or if it'll be some kind of tap-and-go system (in which case, the limited-stop/SBS version of the Bx9 could simply run local north of 242nd Street). 

[bobtehpanda]

I mean, a Bx9 limited under the el would basically be the same rush-hour setup that exists on the Q43/Q46 today, where there's limited stop service up until you get to Springfield.

Have there been any new limited routes since SBS became a thing?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

I mean, a Bx9 limited under the el would basically be the same rush-hour setup that exists on the Q43/Q46 today, where there's limited stop service up until you get to Springfield.

Have there been any new limited routes since SBS became a thing?

Nope. There's been nothing but SBS routes. I think limited stop service is a thing of the past and will only exist on old routes.

[MysteriousBtrain]

21 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

I mean, a Bx9 limited under the el would basically be the same rush-hour setup that exists on the Q43/Q46 today, where there's limited stop service up until you get to Springfield.

Have there been any new limited routes since SBS became a thing?

 

17 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Nope. There's been nothing but SBS routes. I think limited stop service is a thing of the past and will only exist on old routes.

B82 and Bx36 were part of the latest ones, the last one (B82) being 2010. LTD service is probably gone for new routes at this point.

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

3 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

 

B82 and Bx36 were part of the latest ones, the last one (B82) being 2010. LTD service is probably gone for new routes at this point.

There was the Q70 in 2013, five years after SBS debuted (Even though the Q70 was converted into an SBS route two years later).

[WestFarms36]

9 minutes ago, Kingsbridgeviewer382 said:

There was the Q70 in 2013, five years after SBS debuted (Even though the Q70 was converted into an SBS route two years later).

Everyone has forgotten the Q70 was an LTD route, since back then it seemed short, insignificant, and forgotten. I am even surprised that the has even remembered through those years to send out buses on the route.

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

1 minute ago, WestFarms36 said:

Everyone has forgotten the Q70 was an LTD route, since back then it seemed short, insignificant, and forgotten. I am even surprised that the has even remembered through those years to send out buses on the route.

Even before the SBS conversion, the Q70 was heavily advertised in 2013 as an alternative to the Q33 Local to the airport. I'm not sure how service patterns are on the route now nearly three years after the 70 was converted.

[WestFarms36]

Just now, Kingsbridgeviewer382 said:

Even before the SBS conversion, the Q70 was heavily advertised in 2013 as an alternative to the Q33 Local to the airport. I'm not sure how service patterns are on the route now nearly three years after the 70 was converted.

The patterns look very busy, recently had to wrap 2 more buses for the Q70. Demand on the route seems pretty high.