OMNY Implementation/Metro-Card Retirement Discussion Thread

[Amtrak41]

Will you be able to load plain money and PATH trips on the same card ? 

[danielhg121]

12 hours ago, Amtrak41 said:

Will you be able to load plain money and PATH trips on the same card ? 

Why wouldn't they just deduct from the money on your card?

 

EDIT: After rereading your previous post, maybe they can institute fare-capping but loading up both PATH trips and money separately seems like a hassle just for that slight discount, it'd be easier to just load up money and discount as you go.

Edited April 14, 2021 by danielhg121

[Amtrak41]

9 hours ago, danielhg121 said:

Why wouldn't they just deduct from the money on your card?

 

EDIT: After rereading your previous post, maybe they can institute fare-capping but loading up both PATH trips and money separately seems like a hassle just for that slight discount, it'd be easier to just load up money and discount as you go.

Because that is not how it works with Smartlink. MTA does not set PATH fare policies. 

[danielhg121]

1 hour ago, Amtrak41 said:

Because that is not how it works with Smartlink. MTA does not set PATH fare policies. 

Considering they're getting rid of SmartLink and adopting OMNY in 2023, then they kinda have to follow MTA's rules or at least reach a compromise of some sort between the two agencies. They might do away with the whole SmartLink, it would be easier to implement fare-capping on the back-end of the system so commuters don't have to decide which one they want, the system can and should automatically deduct it from your balance at the best price. Keep in mind that SmartLink and Metrocard are ancient technology and so their capabilities are limited too. They're trying to get as many agencies under the same card as possible. (even tho NJT opted out already 😑) 

As far as answering your original post, they're still thinking about how to approach OMNY for the railroads so no one knows how they're going to implement it with PATH.

Edited April 14, 2021 by danielhg121

[Amtrak41]

I have not been in the subway system since just before the pandemic. If there any place in the stations to check the balance on your OMNY card without using the turnstile, just as there is for Metrocard ? 

[mikecintel]

24 minutes ago, Amtrak41 said:

I have not been in the subway system since just before the pandemic. If there any place in the stations to check the balance on your OMNY card without using the turnstile, just as there is for Metrocard ? 

No there is no way to check your OMNY card at  the turnstile and you have to create an OMNY account at omny.info.  Right now there is no OMNY card available (MTA own proprietary card coming soon from the MTA this year I think summer or the fall at retail store and pharmacy chains and grocery stores).  Do you mean your credit,debit, or bank card for OMNY?  Soon there will be OMNY machines installed later this year or next year and you can check your OMNY card from the vending machines just like now with the Metro Card.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

On 11/13/2020 at 5:08 PM, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

Some good and bad news according to the CPOC materials released today (excusethe mobile formatting) 

1. Reader installation will be complete by year end on subways and busses. SBS will have all door boarding. No word on ADB for other routes

2. Phase 3 and 4 pushed back by more than a year. More details below

3. Next six months will bring the following:

Closed loop pilot (aka OMNY card testing) 

Time or trip based testing using credit/ debit (bank) cards, with sales via site and app

Mobile app beta

4. Phase 3: Retail network for OMNY card begins rollout in July 2021

5. Phase 3: Reduced fare by September 2021

6. LIRR/MNR rollout by June 2022

7. New vending machines in 2023

 

Source https://new.mta.info/document/23941

 

Tomorrow should be the release of the May board books, which should contain a 6 month OMNY update. While a few public facing materials were released since this post, those matched the timeline above. 

Lets hope the update is a good one. 

[mikecintel]

15 hours ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

Tomorrow should be the release of the May board books, which should contain a 6 month OMNY update. While a few public facing materials were released since this post, those matched the timeline above. 

Lets hope the update is a good one. 

I went to the MTA website for meeting and still it is not posted. https://new.mta.info/transparency/board-and-committee-meetings/may-2021

I think it will  be in June 2021 on the 23rd because I think in January when I saw the book it says update OMNY in June 2021.

[mikecintel]

1 hour ago, mikecintel said:

I went to the MTA website for meeting and still it is not posted. https://new.mta.info/transparency/board-and-committee-meetings/may-2021

I think it will  be in June 2021 on the 23rd because I think in January when I saw the book it says update OMNY in June 2021.

UPDATE:  Now they have just upload it and here it is https://new.mta.info/document/39671

I just download it and read it and the next update for OMNY is in June and after that it will be in December 2021.  Oh well June will be here next month in a blink of an eye.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

On 5/21/2021 at 3:38 PM, mikecintel said:

UPDATE:  Now they have just upload it and here it is https://new.mta.info/document/39671

I just download it and read it and the next update for OMNY is in June and after that it will be in December 2021.  Oh well June will be here next month in a blink of an eye.

My mistake. Should have read last month's work plan first. 

[mikecintel]

8 minutes ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

My mistake. Should have read last month's work plan first. 

It's OK everyone makes mistakes.  But hey we're looking forward to the next MTA meeting!

[mikecintel]

This week should be exciting because the MTA on the 23rd of next week will have a meeting and OMNY will included.  Hopefully be the end of this week Friday they will post the "Capital Program Oversight Committee Meeting " (CPOCM) PDF file and it will tell us more about OMNY.  Looking forward to this Friday.

[BillAv]

I think they may announce OMNY supporting reduced fares and the like.  I don't think Unlimited is on the table.  It's never mentioned.  Hope I'm wrong.

[mikecintel]

1 hour ago, BillAv said:

I think they may announce OMNY supporting reduced fares and the like.  I don't think Unlimited is on the table.  It's never mentioned.  Hope I'm wrong.

Yes I think they will announce the OMNY fares like reduces fares and the physical OMNY card when it will be out.  Hopefully they will include the unlimited card.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

On 11/13/2020 at 5:08 PM, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

Some good and bad news according to the CPOC materials released today (excusethe mobile formatting) 

1. Reader installation will be complete by year end on subways and busses. SBS will have all door boarding. No word on ADB for other routes

2. Phase 3 and 4 pushed back by more than a year. More details below

3. Next six months will bring the following:

Closed loop pilot (aka OMNY card testing) 

Time or trip based testing using credit/ debit (bank) cards, with sales via site and app

Mobile app beta

4. Phase 3: Retail network for OMNY card begins rollout in July 2021

5. Phase 3: Reduced fare by September 2021

6. LIRR/MNR rollout by June 2022

7. New vending machines in 2023

 

Source https://new.mta.info/document/23941

 

Bumping my own post as a reminder that the plan was to test time based products, among other items, during first half of 2021. We will see if this is incorporated into tomorrow's update. 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by RestrictOnTheHanger

[mikecintel]

11 minutes ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

Bumping my own post as a reminder that the plan was to test time based products, among other items, during first half of 2021. We will see if this is incorporated into tomorrow's update. 

 

 

Ahh yes the time based product and other times probably the fares for seniors and probably unlimited.  Hopefully they introduce the MTA own OMNY card.

[mikecintel]

Hi Everyone,

Finally it's Friday long awaited for the CPOCM PDF book.  It is here and the link is https://new.mta.info/document/42401

When you click that link the slides are "vertically" so it's hard to see and you have to keep clicking on the Clockwise so you can see it.  The OMNY info slide show starts on PG 71-76.  From Page 80-87 it is Project reviews which I am not interested in.  The most important thing I want to see the slides.  There are some interesting facts that I want to point out .  I am going to summarize about OMNY only since this is a OMNY forum.

PG 73 Status of OMNY:

Reduce fare soft launch July 2021 (I think it will be selected groups I don't know to test it??)
 

Physical OMNY cards Sept 2021 and will be in retail stores.  MOBILE App will begin
 

OMNY machines installation starts in Dec 2021

PG 74 LIRR & Metro North Railroad
Completed OMNY Ticket
OMNY Vending machines testing at 3 locations (Woodside, Penn Station, and Grand Central Terminal)

PG 75 Phase 3 OMNY CARDS, Reduce Fare, Mobile App, Web, Para transit SEPT 2021
            Phase 4 I think OMNY machine completed in FEB 2023
PG 76 **Interesting** OPEN Fare Payments support for Reduce Fare

I hope this sums it up.  The next OMNY update will be in DEC 2021 and for 2022 it will be in JUNE.  Ugh have to wait 6 months after DEC 2021 to hear another updated about OMNY.  Let's see what happens on the 23 or next the meeting.  Still it does not talk about Unlimited options and perhaps by the end December 2021 I think they will have that. Oh and by the way Happy Father day to all father's out there!  

Edited June 18, 2021 by mikecintel

[Amtrak41]

Reduced fare July "soft launch" (whatver that means) with no OMNY card until September. How will they do it ? 

OMNY card in September, but no machines until December, means the only way to fund it is on-line.  

I don't think many will be getting OMNY cards until well into 2022.

Any indication of PATH or NICE ?

[mikecintel]

25 minutes ago, Amtrak41 said:

Reduced fare July "soft launch" (whatver that means) with no OMNY card until September. How will they do it ? 

OMNY card in September, but no machines until December, means the only way to fund it is on-line.  

I don't think many will be getting OMNY cards until well into 2022.

Any indication of PATH or NICE ?

Good Question I don't know but probably they will have a prototype I guess.  I don't work for the MTA and I just see what they said on the meeting book.  I left some pages out sorry.  On PG 77 it mentions you can reload at retail locations.  I will update below.  That what it says about the machines in December.  No mention of PATH or NICE.  They just talk about NYCT buses, LIRR, and MNR.

Added pages I forgot to post Sorry.

PG 77 Will summarizes some of it (6 months Look Ahead):

In service beta testing - Mobile App with OMNY Account and trip planning features
Closed Loop Pilot (OMNY Physical card) and OMNY Vending machine test

ADDITIONAL Payment Fare options
China union pay cards/ Japan Credit bureau cards
Open Payments support for Reduce Fare

OMNY CARD with loads/reloads at RETAIL Stores.
Mobile App and Website, B2B (Business to Business)- Full Fare and Reduce Fare (No mention of unlimited)

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by mikecintel

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

1 hour ago, mikecintel said:

No mention of PATH or NICE. 

They are indirectly mentioned in the next section as affiliates, where there is a risk if they dont adopt. 

No explicit mention of time based products, but 

"Rollout of all features supporting NYCT will commence by YE2021"

Also - they may reinstitute the requirement for a virtual OMNY card via the app and mobile wallets to lessen the need for physical cards (chip shortage and whatnot)

 

 

[7-express]

A requirement for virtual OMNY might not sit well with politicians for folks who are unbanked or who don't trust mobile payment on phones.

I'd prefer a physical card personally but I'm more waiting for my transit benefits company to actually start issuing tap cards.

[BillAv]

On 6/18/2021 at 4:57 PM, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

Rollout of all features supporting NYCT will commence by YE2021

So, Unlimited OMNY by the end of the year, maybe.  Disappointing.  I guess that it's best to wait to get it right, especially where money is concerned, but it seems like that this testing and app development could  have been done while the OMNY installation was going on.  But what do I know?  And this whole uncertainty about the unlimited fare has me a little stumped.  I get the frustration that the MTA must have when they see someone swipe themselves in, and then pass the card to someone who waits the 20 or so minutes to get in.  Or when people leave the system then swipe someone in because, hey, it doesn't cost me anything.  It reminds me of an analogy that Fake Steve Jobs (Dan Lyons) make about the iTunes Store back in the day. Why would the record labels insist on DRM'ing legal downloads when illegal downloads are readily available?  It's like a store locking the front door when the window is smashed in.  Why would you restrict unlimited OMNY when unlimited MetroCards exist?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 6/18/2021 at 4:57 PM, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

They are indirectly mentioned in the next section as affiliates, where there is a risk if they dont adopt. 

No explicit mention of time based products, but 

"Rollout of all features supporting NYCT will commence by YE2021"

Also - they may reinstitute the requirement for a virtual OMNY card via the app and mobile wallets to lessen the need for physical cards (chip shortage and whatnot)

 

 

The last I heard about this when talking casually about it with the  was they were considering issuing the OMNY cards via third party methods, likely to reduce their own costs.

14 minutes ago, BillAv said:

So, Unlimited OMNY by the end of the year, maybe.  Disappointing.  I guess that it's best to wait to get it right, especially where money is concerned, but it seems like that this testing and app development could  have been done while the OMNY installation was going on.  But what do I know?  And this whole uncertainty about the unlimited fare has me a little stumped.  I get the frustration that the MTA must have when they see someone swipe themselves in, and then pass the card to someone who waits the 20 or so minutes to get in.  Or when people leave the system then swipe someone in because, hey, it doesn't cost me anything.  It reminds me of an analogy that Fake Steve Jobs (Dan Lyons) make about the iTunes Store back in the day. Why would the record labels insist on DRM'ing legal downloads when illegal downloads are readily available?  It's like a store locking the front door when the window is smashed in.  Why would you restrict unlimited OMNY when unlimited MetroCards exist?

Part of the problem with the  and OMNY is they really weren't sure which direction they wanted to go, in part because the focus was on reliability and safety. You can deal with the other stuff later. They have been tweaking it here and there. There were a lot of bus operators complaining about being charged accidentally, among other things, like OMNY not being ready when a trip starts up in service. There are definitely still some reliability issues too. For example, I have only taken a few trips where a passenger before me used OMNY, and sometimes the machine acts as if it is confused that another person is trying to tap, so you have to wait and then tap again. You can't just tap quickly. As much as I like OMNY, I am not sure it is ready for heavy use. Lots of people are tapping yes, but usually not back to back to back, like you see with people using Metrocards and swiping or dipping. It is also not very reliable with phones. I find it much more responsive with contactless cards.

Everything with OMNY was delayed because of COVID, especially the debut of the OMNY cards. Because it's a system that allows for various options, this has made it more of a challenge for the  to decide to offer things like unlimited cards, or go with time based options or a host of other things that other transit agencies are doing. Unlimited Metrocards are great for customers because the more you use them, the cheaper each ride is, but that obviously means less revenue for the  , so all of this has to be considered.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

On 6/19/2021 at 6:55 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The last I heard about this when talking casually about it with the  was they were considering issuing the OMNY cards via third party methods, likely to reduce their own costs.

Third party as in the retail network? Having other agencies (PA NYNJ, NICE, Etc) handle their own distribution? Or the virtual card for Apple/Google/mobile wallet in place of physical cards? The latter was de-spec'ed a while back. Hence "reinstututing the requirement"

I've had faster reader response times with GPay/Samsung phone than with credit cards. 

Also the readers and back office are supposedly a next gen version of the Oyster system (backend similar to how contactless cards are processed on Oyster). The sensitivity issue has been there for a while and the speed at which the reader can accept a new card is apparent but there hasnt been any major public fiasco. The bugs will definitely need to be fixed before OMNY becomes dominant but it looks like its going ok, even with the pandemic delays. 

 

[Around the Horn]

2 hours ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

Third party as in the retail network? Having other agencies (PA NYNJ, NICE, Etc) handle their own distribution? Or the virtual card for Apple/Google/mobile wallet in place of physical cards? The latter was de-spec'ed a while back. Hence "reinstututing the requirement"

The retail network as in stores and bodegas, akin to what Oyster has. The idea is that participating stores could sell and top up cards in addition to the machines in stations. Suica in Japan also works the same way.