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MysteriousBtrain

Bronx Bus Network Redesign Draft Plan is Coming

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4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The (MTA) is just trying to cut back on costs, and they are using the “direct” service routine to try to justify the changes.

Nah. It's basic transport planning that's been widely used across the world. New York is just the next in line.

Also, I think the MTA spied on an argument I had with a friend regarding bus service in Co-Op.

I seem to be the only person who thinks the proposed routes make sense. And I read the document. Three legged transfers may come with the redesign as it's something residents wanted.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You’re pretty sure based off of what information? I have rode the BxM11 for extended periods of time all the way to the end as well as up in Williamsbridge, and even I don’t know if this will benefit the majority of riders. You are jumping to conclusions. It should speed up the route. That doesn’t mean it will automatically be convenient for the majority of riders. We don’t know if they used any information to come to that conclusion, or if they just decided to remove it for the reason I mentioned. Often times when I ask them about data they can’t answer the question because they don’t know, so I’m not giving them the benefit of the doubt. I’d rather ask and see what they say.

My comments about the Concourse are not accurate because what I said was true which was that it was built to be the crème de la crème in terms of amenities, etc. The only question is the level of decline, not that it was declining. 

I live here actually and more people come from east of WPR than west. I am one of the people who will benefit from this as I won't have to walk a quarter mile and would instead walk three blocks. The BxM5 should be well received.

Edited by LTA1992
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17 minutes ago, LTA1992 said:

Nah. It's basic transport planning that's been widely used across the world. New York is just the next in line.

Also, I think the MTA spied on an argument I had with a friend regarding bus service in Co-Op.

I seem to be the only person who thinks the proposed routes make sense. And I read the document. Three legged transfers may come with the redesign as it's something residents wanted.

It’s basic transport planning, yet their reasons for some changes contradict one another. For example, they claim that the BxM10 performs poorly on weekends, but it is #2 in the MTA Bus express bus network for ridership. They also argue that the Deegan suffers from congestion, yet they are using it for the “new” BxM4 with no plans to improve the Deegan.

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19 minutes ago, LTA1992 said:

I live here actually and more people come from east of WPR than west. I am one of the people who will benefit from this as I won't have to walk a quarter mile and would instead walk three blocks. The BxM5 should be well received.

I’m guessing you must live south enough in Wakefield to use it. 

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9 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Also, not a single change is proposed for the Bx46. Seriously?

The only thing you can really do with that route is give it the ax...

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34 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

They also argue that the Deegan suffers from congestion, yet they are using it for the “new” BxM4 with no plans to improve the Deegan.

This may have something to do with access points. The proposed BxM4 would access it from Jerome Avenue, whereas the current BxM2 does so at 230th Street (for reference, some BxM3 trips do so at what is effectively 240th Street). Moreover, the BxM4 currently follows Grand Concourse, Bainbridge Avenue, and Jerome Avenue, a route that can hardly be considered speedy.

Whether or not the proposed alignment is actually faster remains to be seen, especially without bus/HOV lanes. (For what it's worth, I doubt it, and I have a hard time imagining that the highway would even get those lanes, given what's around it for most of the relevant stretch.)

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9 minutes ago, Lex said:

This may have something to do with access points. The proposed BxM4 would access it from Jerome Avenue, whereas the current BxM2 does so at 230th Street (for reference, some BxM3 trips do so at what is effectively 240th Street). Moreover, the BxM4 currently follows Grand Concourse, Bainbridge Avenue, and Jerome Avenue, a route that can hardly be considered speedy.

Whether or not the proposed alignment is actually faster remains to be seen, especially without bus/HOV lanes. (For what it's worth, I doubt it, and I have a hard time imagining that the highway would even get those lanes, given what's around it for most of the relevant stretch.)

The “new” BxM4 is a revised Super Express BxM4 that existed years ago. They were Super Express trips from Woodlawn that used the Deegan. What should be done is to address the congestion on the Deegan. I have been speaking with elected officials about this since I started the Express Bus Advoacy Group, and we have asked the DOT to look at an HOV lane on the Deegan. There are several problems. The State DOT currently controls the Deegan. In the future, the City DOT may take over the Deegan and other expressways in the City allowing for possible changes, but that hasn’t happened yet. Even if it did, an EIS study would have to be done to see the feasibility and if it would make traffic better or worse, and that would likely take a year or more to complete. There is no question that congestion on the Deegan is worsening, but it is worsenining everywhere else too. 

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3 hours ago, LTA1992 said:

Three legged transfers may come with the redesign as it's something residents wanted.

 

This sort of this is why I'd prefer to scrap all transfers in favor of a time-based pass. Just dip/swipe/tap once and you get your run of subways and local buses for a defined length of time (e.g. 2 or 3 hours), which can even vary by time of day (e.g. 4 hours overnight, 3 hours otherwise).

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2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The “new” BxM4 is a revised Super Express BxM4 that existed years ago. They were Super Express trips from Woodlawn that used the Deegan. What should be done is to address the congestion on the Deegan. I have been speaking with elected officials about this since I started the Express Bus Advoacy Group, and we have asked the DOT to look at an HOV lane on the Deegan. There are several problems. The State DOT currently controls the Deegan. In the future, the City DOT may take over the Deegan and other expressways in the City allowing for possible changes, but that hasn’t happened yet. Even if it did, an EIS study would have to be done to see the feasibility and if it would make traffic better or worse, and that would likely take a year or more to complete. There is no question that congestion on the Deegan is worsening, but it is worsenining everywhere else too. 

City doesn’t own the Staten Island Expwy. That’s also state? Even if that’s the case HOV lanes should of been addressed years ago for NYS Thruway (Bronx Extension) I’d do the same with 278 and New England Thruway for HOV lanes. 

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Plain and simple English. CO-OP CITY SCREWED THEMSELVES 

Also, this Bx15/M125 I have serious concerns on route performance. When the TA than scrapped the Bx55 in favor of an enhanced Bx15 it made everything longer. The TA should of been smart enough to re-instate the Bx55 and have that as the Hub to Fordham Plaza and the Bx15 retain its Hub to Manhattanville route. No need for the M125. 

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4 hours ago, Lex said:

The only thing you can really do with that route is give it the ax...

You can combine it as a branch of the Bx6. 

2 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Plain and simple English. CO-OP CITY SCREWED THEMSELVES 

Also, this Bx15/M125 I have serious concerns on route performance. When the TA than scrapped the Bx55 in favor of an enhanced Bx15 it made everything longer. The TA should of been smart enough to re-instate the Bx55 and have that as the Hub to Fordham Plaza and the Bx15 retain its Hub to Manhattanville route. No need for the M125. 

The old pattern where the local went further out than the limited made no sense. But in any case I don't think it will be too bad. There is a lot of turnover at 149th Street anyway

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7 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

 

The old pattern where the local went further out than the limited made no sense. But in any case I don't think it will be too bad. There is a lot of turnover at 149th Street anyway

Copy copy @checkmatechamp13

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33 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

City doesn’t own the Staten Island Expwy. That’s also state? Even if that’s the case HOV lanes should of been addressed years ago for NYS Thruway (Bronx Extension) I’d do the same with 278 and New England Thruway for HOV lanes. 

That’s correct. NY State controls it.

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22 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

You can combine it as a branch of the Bx6.

And that'll do what, exactly?

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1 minute ago, Lex said:

And that'll do what, exactly?

It should be clear what the Bx46 is there for. Coverage route for a large industrial area that is one of the largest employers in the Bronx. Not sure why anyone is complaining, but that food market there is where most of the food comes from that we get all around NYC, and those people need transportation to get there. The Bx6SBS meanwhile is covering more residential areas.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Lex said:

And that'll do what, exactly?

Give riders heading to the industrial part of Hunts Point (not along the Bx6) the option to connect with other north-south routes like the Bx15, Bx41, Bx1/2 and the B/D/4 trains. That should boost ridership.

@Via Garibaldi 8 The Bx6 already serves the Food Market and does a much better job of it than the Bx6. The Bx46 is for the rest of the industrial area to the west.

Edited by checkmatechamp13
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@Lex The Hunts Point Food Market must be served to get workers to and from the subway, but it doesn’t need tons of service either. With the amount of money that the City makes from that food market, the Bx46 is a no-brainer, even if it looks like a useless line.

http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/ServChanges_Bx46.htm

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3 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Give riders heading to the industrial part of Hunts Point (not along the Bx6) the option to connect with other north-south routes like the Bx15, Bx41, Bx1/2 and the B/D/4 trains. That should boost ridership.

@Via Garibaldi 8 The Bx6 already serves the Food Market and does a much better job of it than the Bx6. The Bx46 is for the rest of the industrial area to the west.

That’s not the point. Obviously it serves a purpose, otherwise they would’ve just left the Bx6 there and called it a day.

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I'm interested in seeing if the West Side Highway will speed things up for some of these buses.  I don't know if Riverside Drive will be helpful, I've only ever driven down it during the weekends and the lights definitely need to be synced up to make it worth changing the route if they're not synced up for the rushes. 

The bus that catches my eye the most is the new BxM17.  I'm not crazy about the routing via the Van Wyck, that area gets really congested in the morning getting on the LIE (there's a reason why those QM2/20/3s) go via the Grand Central in the morning, and coming home will easily be over two hours, if not two and a half or three hours for these people with the current routing.  It takes about an hour to an hour fifteen to get to Woodhaven Blvd on the LIE from downtown on an average day, and it's going to be a slow crawl all the way to the Whitestone Bridge between the awful mess that is getting onto the Van Wyck and the wall of traffic on the Whitestone Expressway to get to the bridge.  The bus drivers will have to learn to take the service roads if the depot is adamant about them staying on route.  

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I don't really think its my place to say anything on the Bronx redesign, I don't live there so I can't speak on how service will affect people or not, but I will say its interesting how they managed to keep some of the integrity of the original map for this one. 

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11 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

@Lex The Hunts Point Food Market must be served to get workers to and from the subway, but it doesn’t need tons of service either. With the amount of money that the City makes from that food market, the Bx46 is a no-brainer, even if it looks like a useless line.

http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/ServChanges_Bx46.htm

That's not what I meant. What I'm questioning is if there's really anything that can be done with the route (outside of serving the Hunts Point Food Market and Barretto Point Park) that won't seem rather forced. I'm honestly not convinced that the route can really expand in scope without looking like a desperate attempt to connect it to something else and maybe get some people on those buses (aside from the ones already using it, of course).

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8 minutes ago, ViaWaterViaChurch said:

I'm interested in seeing if the West Side Highway will speed things up for some of these buses.  I don't know if Riverside Drive will be helpful, I've only ever driven down it during the weekends and the lights definitely need to be synced up to make it worth changing the route if they're not synced up for the rushes. 

The bus that catches my eye the most is the new BxM17.  I'm not crazy about the routing via the Van Wyck, that area gets really congested in the morning getting on the LIE (there's a reason why those QM2/20/3s) go via the Grand Central in the morning, and coming home will easily be over two hours, if not two and a half or three hours for these people with the current routing.  It takes about an hour to an hour fifteen to get to Woodhaven Blvd on the LIE from downtown on an average day, and it's going to be a slow crawl all the way to the Whitestone Bridge between the awful mess that is getting onto the Van Wyck and the wall of traffic on the Whitestone Expressway to get to the bridge.  The bus drivers will have to learn to take the service roads if the depot is adamant about them staying on route.  

I'm not crazy about the general concept. It's not for the lack of need (the need exists), but because any possible route for it is awful.

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Here's my thoughts:

Co-op City's gonna go into their meeting with pitchforks and flamethrowers. I don't care if the Bx23 runs every 5 minutes, Section 5 alone lost 75% of its routes!

That Bx15/M125 split reeks of the M5/M55 strategy. Watch the M125 get the short end of the stick.

Cutting two thirds of the Bx42 is honestly asking for trouble, but straightening out the Bx40 and Bx36 is overdue.

I would've split the Bx24 into two parts: Pelham Bay-Hutch Metro Center (24 hours) and Pelham Bay-Locust Point (Bx14-no overnight)

The Bx30 is officially the 1980's Bx7 reborn.

That Bx18 circulator looks good but it confuses the shit out of me.

That Bx11 extension to Parkchester looks intriguing...

Bx28 to Fordham Plaza is good, but the Bx38 is gone?

The SBS Bx6 routed away from the Food Market at Hunts Point is an interesting move...

As for the express buses:

I think I called that BxM6/BxM10 combo (I also called a BxM1/BxM2 combo but thank goodness they ain't doing that.)

VG8's gonna love having the BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18 all serve Inwood now. /s

Speaking of the BxM18, how are people that transfer from the other lines at 57th Street and 23rd Street going to get downtown now that the BxM18 would go to Hudson Yards instead?

The BxM17 is kinda like a failsafe for the BxM7. Once the Metro-North stop opens up, who's actually gonna use the BxM7? At least with the BxM17 the B/O's keep their jobs and the riders keep an express bus in some shape or form.

Losing the BxM4 off hours isn't a huge shock but cutting it off the Concourse entirely.... Man, ever since they chopped off the other BxM4 branch, that line just hasn't been the same...

And the BxM5... Good I guess, but those new Gun Hill short starts look like lame ducks now.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It should be clear what the Bx46 is there for. Coverage route for a large industrial area that is one of the largest employers in the Bronx. Not sure why anyone is complaining, but that food market there is where most of the food comes from that we get all around NYC, and those people need transportation to get there. The Bx6SBS meanwhile is covering more residential areas.

 

2 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Give riders heading to the industrial part of Hunts Point (not along the Bx6) the option to connect with other north-south routes like the Bx15, Bx41, Bx1/2 and the B/D/4 trains. That should boost ridership.

@Via Garibaldi 8 The Bx6 already serves the Food Market and does a much better job of it than the Bx6. The Bx46 is for the rest of the industrial area to the west.

I also want to add that people in the residential areas the Bx46 serves have also been requesting for a route in their area prior to the route's inception. The problem is that the bus doesn't do much but act as a shuttle to the subway, and doesn't go anywhere else residents want. Given that it's often faster to just walk to the (6), this route doesn't carry except for when shift changes occur. Perhaps it'll be used more when the Bx6 SBS is moved out of Hunts Point, but it still needs more than current riders.

Extending it to Yankee Stadium would help out the Bx6 Local and give residents along the Bx46 section better access to the rest of the south Bronx, as well as access to regional connections (Metro-North at Melrose). If current headways are retain, you'd need one extra bus (per cycle), but additional fares collected would help offset that. 

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
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5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The State DOT currently controls the Deegan. In the future, the City DOT may take over the Deegan and other expressways in the City allowing for possible changes, but that hasn’t happened yet. 

 

By law, the states own and operate the Interstate Highway System. If the State turns over the Deegan to NYC, then it would no longer be an Interstate highway. The State would give up federal maintenance money (which NYC would not receive) and might even have to reimburse the original construction costs. 

Federal Highway Administration - Interstate FAQs

 

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