New F express schedule out

[CenSin]

Just finished the 7:29 AM run from Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue to Broadway–Lafayette Street. Times at which the train opened/closed doors at each intervening station accurate to the minute:

• Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue: closed 7:29 (left station on-time when compared to scheduled 7:29 departure.)
• West 8 Street: opened 7:31
• West 8 Street: closed 7:31
• Neptune Avenue: opened 7:33
• Neptune Avenue: closed 7:33
• Avenue X: opened 7:34
• Avenue X: closed 7:35
• Avenue U: opened 7:36
• Avenue U: closed 7:36
• Kings Highway: opened 7:38 (1 minute early when compared to scheduled 7:39 arrival.)
• Kings Highway: closed 7:38
• Avenue P: opened 7:40
• Avenue P: closed 7:40
• Avenue N: opened 7:41
• Avenue N: closed 7:41
• Bay Parkway: opened 7:42
• Bay Parkway: closed 7:43
• Avenue I: opened 7:44
• Avenue I: closed 7:44
• 18 Avenue: opened 7:45
• 18 Avenue: closed 7:46
• Ditmas Avenue: opened 7:47
• Ditmas Avenue: closed 7:47
• Church Avenue: opened 7:50
• Church Avenue: closed 7:51
• (At this point, an empty local pulled into the station as well.)
• 7 Avenue: opened 7:54
• (At this station, the held just a handful of seconds to announce that the train was express and to connect to the that pulled into the station simultaneously.)
• 7 Avenue: closed 7:55
• (The passed Carroll Street at 7:59.)
• (The passed Bergen Street at slow speed at 8:01, taking nearly a whole 60 seconds to pass through. It held 3 seconds just north of the station waiting for the signal.)
• (Pulling into Jay Street–MetroTech, there was a train waiting across the platform.)
• Jay Street–MeteoTech: opened: 8:03
• Jay Street–MeteoTech: closed 8:04 (4 minutes late when compared to scheduled 7:59 arrival.)
• York Street: opened 8:05
• York Street: closed 8:06
• East Broadway: opened 8:08
• East Broadway: closed 8:08
• Delancey Street–Essex Street: opened 8:09
• Delancey Street–Essex Street: closed 8:09
• 2 Avenue: opened 8:11
• (The train held here for about an extra 15 seconds, probably for the  to get out of the way.)
• 2 Avenue: closed 8:12
• Broadway–Lafayette Street: opened 8:13 (4 minutes late when compared to scheduled 8:09 arrival.)
• Broadway–Lafayette Street: closed 8:14

Is there anyone willing to comment on the run time? I do not ride the Culver that often nowadays.

12 hours ago, RR503 said:

As sad as this is, 30tph is honestly on the high end of what your average track is capable of in this system. We're really bad at ops, have some poorly laid out junctions/terminals, and our signals in many areas are garbage. There certainly are many stretches closer to 20tph maximum cap than 30. My totally unevidenced impression of SAS is that it may be one of them -- the signal blocks on that line are weirdly long, and weekend ops with the seem to produce delays. 

My case for another service not being able to be squeezed into 6 Avenue local is because of this. Additional merges lower the total capacity. If a track had capacity for 30 train per hour, a merge would lower that to about 28 trains per hour. Another merge would lower it further. That theoretical extra 5 TPH on the 6 Avenue local after accounting for the  and  is probably really only 1~2 TPH.

Edited September 16, 2019 by CenSin

[biGC323232]

1 hour ago, CenSin said:

Just finished the 7:29 AM run from Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue to Broadway–Lafayette Street. Times at which the train opened/closed doors at each intervening station accurate to the minute:

• Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue: closed 7:29 (left station on-time when compared to scheduled 7:29 departure.)
• West 8 Street: opened 7:31
• West 8 Street: closed 7:31
• Neptune Avenue: opened 7:33
• Neptune Avenue: closed 7:33
• Avenue X: opened 7:34
• Avenue X: closed 7:35
• Avenue U: opened 7:36
• Avenue U: closed 7:36
• Kings Highway: opened 7:38 (1 minute early when compared to scheduled 7:39 arrival.)
• Kings Highway: closed 7:38
• Avenue P: opened 7:40
• Avenue P: closed 7:40
• Avenue N: opened 7:41
• Avenue N: closed 7:41
• Bay Parkway: opened 7:42
• Bay Parkway: closed 7:43
• Avenue I: opened 7:44
• Avenue I: closed 7:44
• 18 Avenue: opened 7:45
• 18 Avenue: closed 7:46
• Ditmas Avenue: opened 7:47
• Ditmas Avenue: closed 7:47
• Church Avenue: opened 7:50
• Church Avenue: closed 7:51
• (At this point, an empty local pulled into the station as well.)
• 7 Avenue: opened 7:54
• (At this station, the held just a handful of seconds to announce that the train was express and to connect to the that pulled into the station simultaneously.)
• 7 Avenue: closed 7:55
• (The passed Carroll Street at 7:59.)
• (The passed Bergen Street at slow speed at 8:01, taking nearly a whole 60 seconds to pass through. It held 3 seconds just north of the station waiting for the signal.)
• (Pulling into Jay Street–MetroTech, there was a train waiting across the platform.)
• Jay Street–MeteoTech: opened: 8:03
• Jay Street–MeteoTech: closed 8:04 (4 minutes late when compared to scheduled 7:59 arrival.)
• York Street: opened 8:05
• York Street: closed 8:06
• East Broadway: opened 8:08
• East Broadway: closed 8:08
• Delancey Street–Essex Street: opened 8:09
• Delancey Street–Essex Street: closed 8:09
• 2 Avenue: opened 8:11
• (The train held here for about an extra 15 seconds, probably for the  to get out of the way.)
• 2 Avenue: closed 8:12
• Broadway–Lafayette Street: opened 8:13 (4 minutes late when compared to scheduled 8:09 arrival.)
• Broadway–Lafayette Street: closed 8:14

Is there anyone willing to comment on the run time? I do not ride the Culver that often nowadays.

My case for another service not being able to be squeezed into 6 Avenue local is because of this. Additional merges lower the total capacity. If a track had capacity for 30 train per hour, a merge would lower that to about 28 trains per hour. Another merge would lower it further. That theoretical extra 5 TPH on the 6 Avenue local after accounting for the  and  is probably really only 1~2 TPH.

Wow...You actually have a break down of the express station by station...

Welp lets see how successful this turns out to be...

[S78 via Hylan]

8 minutes ago, biGC323232 said:

Wow...You actually have a break down of the express station by station...

Welp lets see how successful this turns out to be...

In my honest opinion, it’s an effective way to research patterns and study ridership.

[RR503]

1 hour ago, CenSin said:

My case for another service not being able to be squeezed into 6 Avenue local is because of this. Additional merges lower the total capacity. If a track had capacity for 30 train per hour, a merge would lower that to about 28 trains per hour. Another merge would lower it further. That theoretical extra 5 TPH on the 6 Avenue local after accounting for the  and  is probably really only 1~2 TPH.

See but there would not be additional merges on 6th Avenue. You'd just be throughputting more trains through the merges with the  -- which, thanks to Canarise, are known to be capable of more than they currently run. The new merge on Culver would be taking place at 15tph, or hardly enough to cause problems. 

Big thanks for the runtime info. It looks like the  lost lots of time to the GTs coming off the viaduct. 

[CenSin]

3 hours ago, S78 via Hylan said:

In my honest opinion, it’s an effective way to research patterns and study ridership.

It’s an effective way to see how the MTA is performing.

3 hours ago, RR503 said:

See but there would not be additional merges on 6th Avenue. You'd just be throughputting more trains through the merges with the  -- which, thanks to Canarise, are known to be capable of more than they currently run. The new merge on Culver would be taking place at 15tph, or hardly enough to cause problems.

You see, this is the additional merge I was referring to:

18 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

If capacity in Queens is the issue, why not send them to 96th St?

The issue I have with this is that you’d get a Broadway 34 Street–Herald Square-style merge at Lexington Avenue–63 Street. Then there is another merge between 47–50 Streets–Rockefeller Center and 5 Avenue, creating an interlined 3-pronged fork in Midtown Manhattan. Given the inevitable delays, this is going to lower the collective throughput of 6 Avenue, 8 Avenue, and Broadway. It’s introducing new interlining where it previous did not exist. It may not be much of a problem at Broadway–Lafayette Street though since the additional trains would only be split between 2 lines: Crosstown () and Williamsburg Bridge ().

[Jsunflyguy]

8 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

There are two things going on.  express, and increases in running times on the  and .

 

No! My s to my home station will no longer be! How long have these trains been in the timetable?

I'm aware of that, the person in the tweet however is spreading mis-information. I would hope someone who has 30 years in the MTA would know how to read a sentence and a supplement...*sigh*

4 hours ago, RR503 said:

See but there would not be additional merges on 6th Avenue. You'd just be throughputting more trains through the merges with the  -- which, thanks to Canarise, are known to be capable of more than they currently run. The new merge on Culver would be taking place at 15tph, or hardly enough to cause problems. 

Big thanks for the runtime info. It looks like the  lost lots of time to the GTs coming off the viaduct. 

That doesn't sit right that solely the GTs are the cause, if there are GTs enforcing the maximum speed for an area (not going to debate whether this speed may be technically correct) then it has to be accounted for in the run time, if its a merge close behind another train where the signal may not be readily displayed then that allowance needs to be accounted for. However, what I suspect is the other  that leaves Stillwell at 7:23 wasn't held since @CenSin only reports pass 1  train. @CenSin, is this correct or an omission?

That I could believe since the GTs would then enforce a lower speed to allow simultaneous approaches to the junction

[RR503]

3 minutes ago, Jsunflyguy said:

That doesn't sit right that solely the GTs are the cause, if there are GTs enforcing the maximum speed for an area (not going to debate whether this speed may be technically correct) then it has to be accounted for in the run time, if its a merge close behind another train where the signal may not be readily displayed then that allowance needs to be accounted for. However, what I suspect is the other  that leaves Stillwell at 7:23 wasn't held since @CenSin only reports pass 1  train. @CenSin, is this correct or an omission?

That I could believe since the GTs would then enforce a lower speed to allow simultaneous approaches to the junction

I was just going off of the description of the  crawling into Bergen lower. It's two shots all the way from Smith-9th to there, and I doubt operators are super confident with area speeds at this point what with B4 not being used all that frequently for diversions. Merges and holds could absolutely be part of the issue, though, too. 

1 hour ago, CenSin said:

That doesn't sit right that solely the GTs are the cause, if there are GTs enforcing the maximum speed for an area (not going to debate whether this speed may be technically correct) then it has to be accounted for in the run time, if its a merge close behind another train where the signal may not be readily displayed then that allowance needs to be accounted for. However, what I suspect is the other  that leaves Stillwell at 7:23 wasn't held since @CenSin only reports pass 1  train. @CenSin, is this correct or an omission?

That I could believe since the GTs would then enforce a lower speed to allow simultaneous approaches to the junction

That merge is only an issue if you go above the few tph that's avail in Queens. 

[CenSin]

37 minutes ago, Jsunflyguy said:

However, what I suspect is the other  that leaves Stillwell at 7:23 wasn't held since @CenSin only reports pass 1  train. @CenSin, is this correct or an omission?

The only  I saw was at Church Avenue, and that was fresh out of the underground storage tracks. We connected with a  at 7 Avenue. At Carroll Street, the platform appeared to be moderately packed with people. I don’t know how good of a proxy that is for how long ago an  train passed by the station.

[Union Tpke]

https://new.mta.info/fexpress

@RR503 Look at this:https://new.mta.info/sites/default/files/2019-09/F express study 2019-07-26.pdf

 They tried to modify the older F Express study and did an awful job! You can sort of tell the timing for this because it says

Quote

Preliminary planning for Fast Forward has identified 7 Av as a candidate for ADA access. No other stations along the Culver line have been identified as ADA access candidates yet, although at least 2 will likely be needed between Coney Island and Church Av.

Interesting notes:

Quote

Operational Considerations

Subway operations simulations undertaken since the 2016 report have shown that the projected maximum track capacity on the 6 Av local tracks is 28 trains per hour (tph) with current signals, as opposed to 25 tph as estimated in 2016. While this allows for an overall increase in F service, that would be limited because of growing M train ridership, which may trigger a need for more M service along 6 Av.

The M train from Williamsburg continues to see substantial growth. Currently scheduled at 10 tph in the AM peak, the M will likely need to go to 12 tph to meet near-term loading needs. With 14 F’s scheduled in the AM peak, M growth would leave capacity for two more F trains along the shared 6 Av segment. Were F express to operate, 16 tph on the F would allow for an even split at 8 tph for each of the express and local.

Fast Forward (CBTC) running time improvements plus the reduction in running time associated with express operation should allow the existing F fleet to make one to two additional peak-period trips, allowing for more service without adding to the fleet size.

I hadn't thought of the comparison to the Rockaway Park As, but that is different. These are the only through trains there. Of course people are willing to wait for them.

Quote

With accurate information some riders would shift their travel times to board these expresses. Similar short spikes in ridership can be observed at stations with infrequent specialservice, such as the aforementioned “Rockaway Park Specials” on the A line. Based on patterns observed on the A line, it is estimated that the share of affected riders that would benefit from this operation could rise from 46% in the 50/50 plan to 52%.

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Union Tpke

[RR503]

@Union Tpke I'm increasingly skeptical of the "no space for more service" claim. There is incremental capacity avail on QB, and if we take the Canarise estimate of 28tph capacity on 6th local to be true, there's space for 4 more s even with 10tph of . 

[Union Tpke]

1 hour ago, RR503 said:

@Union Tpke I'm increasingly skeptical of the "no space for more service" claim. There is incremental capacity avail on QB, and if we take the Canarise estimate of 28tph capacity on 6th local to be true, there's space for 4 more s even with 10tph of . 

The only way to use this capacity is to deinterline. You could run 30 TPH from 179/JC and Queens Blvd Express/63 Street/6th Avenue local. 18  and 12 . I would run some of these s as s if Bergen L.L. were reopened. Again, you have the issue of 8/9-car  trains on the express. The platforms really need to be 10-cars long anyway.

[RR503]

18 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

The only way to use this capacity is to deinterline. You could run 30 TPH from 179/JC and Queens Blvd Express/63 Street/6th Avenue local. 18  and 12 . I would run some of these s as s if Bergen L.L. were reopened. Again, you have the issue of 8/9-car  trains on the express. The platforms really need to be 10-cars long anyway.

I would love that too, but even w/in existing service patterns, there's space.  trains arrive in Queens around 8:15 and 8:40. From 8:00 to 8:30, we run 11 out of a potential 15 trains, and from 8:30 to 9 we run 13/15. Whether the terminal ops/requisite merge holds would work out, IDK, but this is worth noting.

Edited September 16, 2019 by RR503

[Union Tpke]

Just now, RR503 said:

I would love that too, but even w/in existing service patterns, there's space.  trains arrive in Queens around 8:15 and 8:40. From 8:00 to 8:30, we run 11 out of a potential 15 trains, and from 8:30 to 9 we run 13/15. Whether the terminal ops/requisite merge holds would work out, IDK, but this is worth noting.

Agreed. There is so much potential right after and before the peaks of the peak. Many people are under the impression that maximum service levels are being run for all of rush hour from 6:30 to 9:30 a.m.. This is not the case at all. Increasing service in these times would encourage people to travel to work earlier/later, and would reduce crowding.

[RR503]

1 minute ago, Union Tpke said:

Agreed. There is so much potential right after and before the peaks of the peak. Many people are under the impression that maximum service levels are being run for all of rush hour from 6:30 to 9:30 a.m.. This is not the case at all. Increasing service in these times would encourage people to travel to work earlier/later, and would reduce crowding.

Hell, even during the peak of the AM peak there's space going n/b into Queens. Measurements frm. Roosevelt:

8-8:30 11 trains

8:30-9 13 trains

9-9:30 13 trains

9:30-10 13 trains

10-10:30 11 trains 

[Union Tpke]

8 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Hell, even during the peak of the AM peak there's space going n/b into Queens. Measurements frm. Roosevelt:

8-8:30 11 trains

8:30-9 13 trains

9-9:30 13 trains

9:30-10 13 trains

10-10:30 11 trains 

Hmm. Definently not S/B where most of the focus is.

[CenSin]

The Coney Island-bound run could be much better. The MTA didn’t schedule away the trains at the terminal, and so there was a long delay at West 8 Street. Captain Obvious says: If you find yourself at West 8 Street right after being delayed in between Neptune Avenue and West 8 Street, take the on the upper level to cut down on time waiting for the terminal to clear. Just to be sure that the won’t also be waiting, look for signs on the Manhattan-bound side that indicate a left the terminal recently. It should all be visible from the middle of the train when it’s stranded between Neptune Avenue and West 8 Street.

• (A Coney Island-bound pulled into the station and opened up at 5:10; it closed down at 5:10 and left the station at 5:11. The next train on the countdown clock was designated “Kings Highway ” but the signage on the train read “Culver express” when it arrived.)
• Broadway–Lafayette Street: opened 5:12 (1 minute early when compared to scheduled 5:13)
• Broadway–Lafayette Street: closed 5:12
• 2 Avenue: opened 5:13
• 2 Avenue: closed 5:14
• Delancey Street–Essex Street: opened 5:15
• Delancey Street–Essex Street: closed 5:16
• East Broadway: opened 5:17
• East Broadway: closed 5:17
• York Street: opened 5:20
• (The held a little longer at this station for about a third of a minute.)
• York Street: closed 5:21
• Jay Street–MeteoTech: opened 5:22 (on-time when compared to scheduled 5:22)
• (The train across the platform didn’t wait for the . The conductor made a 20-second announcement about the special F Express program before closing down.)
• Jay Street–MeteoTech: closed 5:23
• (The plowed past the switches on the lower level like they weren't there.)
• (The passed Bergen Street at 5:25.)
• (The passed Carroll Street at 5:25, bypassing the local.)
• (The passed Smith–9 Street at 5:26 with a that was also pulling out of the station. It crept down the incline towards 4 Avenue–9 Street slowly.
• (The passed 4 Avenue–9 Street at 5:27.)
• 7 Avenue: opened 5:28
• 7 Avenue: closed 5:29
• Church Avenue: opened 5:33
• Church Avenue: closed 5:33
• Ditmas Avenue: opened 5:35
• Ditmas Avenue: closed 5:35
• 18 Avenue: opened 5:36
• 18 Avenue: closed 5:37
• Avenue I: opened 5:38
• Avenue I: closed 5:38
• Bay Parkway: opened 5:39
• Bay Parkway: closed 5:39
• Avenue N: opened 5:40
• Avenue N: closed 5:41
• (At this point, the became visible from the rear window of the train, probably pulling into Ditmas Avenue.)
• Avenue P: opened 5:42
• Avenue P: closed 5:42
• Kings Highway: opened 5:43 (early by 5 minutes when compared to scheduled 5:48)
• Kings Highway: closed 5:44 (just 15 seconds after opening up—no nonsense here with the holding lights)
• Avenue U: opened 5:45
• Avenue U: closed 5:45
• Avenue X: opened 5:47
• Avenue X: closed 5:47
• Neptune Avenue: opened 5:48
• Neptune Avenue: closed 5:48
• (The train stalled from 5:50 to 5:51 in between stations due to another F train in the station up ahead.)
• West 8 Street: open 5:52
• (The train stalled at the station waiting for the terminal track to clear. A Coney Island-bound pulled in during this time and opened up at 5:54 on the upper level, pulling out about 100 seconds later at 5:55 after a Manhattan-bound pulled into the station from the terminal. Another Coney Island-bound pulled in and opened up at 5:58.)
• West 8 Street: closed 6:00 (and pulled out at 6:01 after a Manhattan-bound pulled into the station)
• Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue: opened 6:03 (late by 1 minutes when compared to scheduled 6:02)

Edited September 16, 2019 by CenSin

[Caelestor]

FWIW I do think the  service can become viable in the future. In the long term, the QB (local + express), 63 St, 6 Ave local, and Culver lines can form one highly frequent trunk line with 15 tph between Forest Hills and Church Ave and the  between 179 St and Coney Island. All the stops have quite high ridership, and BMT Culver has been designated for redevelopment (gentrification) by the city. The main impediment now is the  - don't think it should return to Nassau St, but the ideal scenario of sending it to 6 Ave express and sending Chrystie St up 2 Ave is a serious reconfiguration project that would probably impose a decade of endless construction.

[CenSin]

I think a finer comparison between the actual run time and the detailed one that the MTA posted on their site would be useful. This is what the MTA claims:

Looking at the times that I recorded, it seems that the MTA really struggled at these 2 segments:

• Northbound from 7 Avenue to Jay Street–MetroTech: lost 3 minutes mostly due to the slow speeds approaching and passing Bergen Street
• Southbound approaching Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue: lost 8 minutes (not going by scheduled arrival at the terminal, but by the time that could have been saved had the terminal not been full)

Edited September 16, 2019 by CenSin

[Calvin]

Today, when riding the second Express to Coney Island: (PM rush)

Here's the status: 

Jay Street–MetroTech: closed 5:54

(The  plowed past the switches on the lower level like they weren't there.)

(Bypassed Bergen Street at 5:56.)

(Then, Carroll Street at 5:57.)

(Then, passed Smith–9 Street at 5:58 with one minute later at 4 Av-9 St

7 Avenue: opened 6:00. The  local to Kings Hwy departed the station. Doors closed at 6:01. 

Church Avenue: opened 6:04

Church Avenue: closed 6:06. Held for 2 minutes for waiting lights to turn off and signals green. 

Until Kings Hwy, train arrived at 6:19, then to Av. U at 6:20. The same Kings Hwy train at 7 Av was at that station (Kings Hwy= last stop)

 

 

Second  Express train: (9533-7: regular R160 w/ads) -- (9218-9222: Cuomo refurbished R160 with standing points on the ends of the cars )

The to Kings Hwy at 7 Av, meeting it at Kings Hwy: (9343-9347 -- 9493-9497)

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Calvin

[subwaykid256]

2 hours ago, CenSin said:

The Coney Island-bound run could be much better. The MTA didn’t schedule away the trains at the terminal, and so there was a long delay at West 8 Street. Captain Obvious says: If you find yourself at West 8 Street right after being delayed in between Neptune Avenue and West 8 Street, take the on the upper level to cut down on time waiting for the terminal to clear. Just to be sure that the won’t also be waiting, look for signs on the Manhattan-bound side that indicate a left the terminal recently. It should all be visible from the middle of the train when it’s stranded between Neptune Avenue and West 8 Street.

• (A Coney Island-bound pulled into the station and opened up at 5:10; it closed down at 5:10 and left the station at 5:11. The next train on the countdown clock was designated “Kings Highway ” but the signage on the train read “Culver express” when it arrived.)
• Broadway–Lafayette Street: opened 5:12 (1 minute early when compared to scheduled 5:13)
• Broadway–Lafayette Street: closed 5:12
• 2 Avenue: opened 5:13
• 2 Avenue: closed 5:14
• Delancey Street–Essex Street: opened 5:15
• Delancey Street–Essex Street: closed 5:16
• East Broadway: opened 5:17
• East Broadway: closed 5:17
• York Street: opened 5:20
• (The held a little longer at this station for about a third of a minute.)
• York Street: closed 5:21
• Jay Street–MeteoTech: opened 5:22 (on-time when compared to scheduled 5:22)
• (The train across the platform didn’t wait for the . The conductor made a 20-second announcement about the special F Express program before closing down.)
• Jay Street–MeteoTech: closed 5:23
• (The plowed past the switches on the lower level like they weren't there.)
• (The passed Bergen Street at 5:25.)
• (The passed Carroll Street at 5:25, bypassing the local.)
• (The passed Smith–9 Street at 5:26 with a that was also pulling out of the station. It crept down the incline towards 4 Avenue–9 Street slowly.
• (The passed 4 Avenue–9 Street at 5:27.)
• 7 Avenue: opened 5:28
• 7 Avenue: closed 5:29
• Church Avenue: opened 5:33
• Church Avenue: closed 5:33
• Ditmas Avenue: opened 5:35
• Ditmas Avenue: closed 5:35
• 18 Avenue: opened 5:36
• 18 Avenue: closed 5:37
• Avenue I: opened 5:38
• Avenue I: closed 5:38
• Bay Parkway: opened 5:39
• Bay Parkway: closed 5:39
• Avenue N: opened 5:40
• Avenue N: closed 5:41
• (At this point, the became visible from the rear window of the train, probably pulling into Ditmas Avenue.)
• Avenue P: opened 5:42
• Avenue P: closed 5:42
• Kings Highway: opened 5:43 (early by 5 minutes when compared to scheduled 5:48)
• Kings Highway: closed 5:44 (just 15 seconds after opening up—no nonsense here with the holding lights)
• Avenue U: opened 5:45
• Avenue U: closed 5:45
• Avenue X: opened 5:47
• Avenue X: closed 5:47
• Neptune Avenue: opened 5:48
• Neptune Avenue: closed 5:48
• (The train stalled from 5:50 to 5:51 in between stations due to another F train in the station up ahead.)
• West 8 Street: open 5:52
• (The train stalled at the station waiting for the terminal track to clear. A Coney Island-bound pulled in during this time and opened up at 5:54 on the upper level, pulling out about 100 seconds later at 5:55 after a Manhattan-bound pulled into the station from the terminal. Another Coney Island-bound pulled in and opened up at 5:58.)
• West 8 Street: closed 6:00 (and pulled out at 6:01 after a Manhattan-bound pulled into the station)
• Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue: opened 6:03 (late by 1 minutes when compared to scheduled 6:02)

I rode the Coney Island bound train from West 4th to Church Av. I was surprised by how smooth the ride was but as well as how empty the car was.

[trainfan22]

Surprised at how much excitement this is generating in the railfan community, the  train has been going express unofficially from Jay to Church and vice versa for quite some time now. Not to mention G.O's, I'm sure most railfans ridden a train on those tracks prior to today. Last week during a service disruption I rode an R68A  train that went over the Culver express from Jay to Church.

[CenSin]

3 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

Surprised at how much excitement this is generating in the railfan community, the  train has been going express unofficially from Jay to Church and vice versa for quite some time now. Not to mention G.O's, I'm sure most railfans ridden a train on those tracks prior to today. Last week during a service disruption I rode an R68A  train that went over the Culver express from Jay to Church.

Well, the ride has always been available sporadically. But it seems better know concretely that it exists and is officially “blessed” by the MTA. In the same way, companies pay lots of money for a stable, supported Linux distribution even though all of it is freely available software they could grab themselves. Now one can go out and expect a certain train to arrive at an approximate time instead of catching it by chance.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

6 hours ago, RR503 said:

Hell, even during the peak of the AM peak there's space going n/b into Queens. Measurements frm. Roosevelt:

8-8:30 11 trains

8:30-9 13 trains

9-9:30 13 trains

9:30-10 13 trains

10-10:30 11 trains 

Didn’t realize there was that much available capacity on QBL. As long as there’s as little merging as possible, that should really be looked into.

3 hours ago, CenSin said:

I think a finer comparison between the actual run time and the detailed one that the MTA posted on their site would be useful. This is what the MTA claims:

Looking at the times that I recorded, it seems that the MTA really struggled at these 2 segments:

• Northbound from 7 Avenue to Jay Street–MetroTech: lost 3 minutes mostly due to the slow speeds approaching and passing Bergen Street
• Southbound approaching Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue: lost 8 minutes (not going by scheduled arrival at the terminal, but by the time that could have been saved had the terminal not been full)

Would be great if they had that diagram at  stations. Then it would make it easier to know when the  trains come.

[Jcb]

Few thoughts on the  (PM at least) I was on the first.

Something must be seriously wrong with local service, whether the switches at Jay or terminal ops at Church, if the  is saving 6 whole minutes over the local on that stretch. Having said that,

 

• The first PM express was directly behind a local and was lightly loaded from 57th street on down. Might just be a poor interval, though.
• Culver Express is a lot more heavily timed than I expected, especially considering how lightly used it is. The viaduct's speeds were somewhat disappointing, although I suppose the interlocking by 4th Ave-9th St might have something to do with that
• I got to Jay Street northbound right after the second express left, and the platform was PACKED. That either doesn't bode well for future service, or means that the express should be scheduled to directly precede a local, IMO.
• This service pattern won't go away at the end of the trial, it's basically the 2  trains that would randomly go express during the PM peak, but officially in the schedule.
• The  has potential, and is the key to allowing the  to finally have consistent, reliable intervals. However, as many people have said, this relies on Bergen Street Lower being reactivated to provide a transfer point for Red Hook and Carroll Gardens residents.

Unrelated but the  displays as ( F ) on the advertising screens and I think that's neat. (63rd St- 8th avenue connection theories, anyone?)

[CenSin]

8 hours ago, Calvin said:

Today, when riding the second Express to Coney Island: (PM rush)

Here's the status: 

Jay Street–MetroTech: closed 5:54

(The  plowed past the switches on the lower level like they weren't there.)

(Bypassed Bergen Street at 5:56.)

(Then, Carroll Street at 5:57.)

(Then, passed Smith–9 Street at 5:58 with one minute later at 4 Av-9 St

7 Avenue: opened 6:00. The  local to Kings Hwy departed the station. Doors closed at 6:01. 

Church Avenue: opened 6:04

Church Avenue: closed 6:06. Held for 2 minutes for waiting lights to turn off and signals green. 

Until Kings Hwy, train arrived at 6:19, then to Av. U at 6:20. The same Kings Hwy train at 7 Av was at that station (Kings Hwy= last stop)

 

 

Second  Express train: (9533-7: regular R160 w/ads) -- (9218-9222: Cuomo refurbished R160 with standing points on the ends of the cars )

The to Kings Hwy at 7 Av, meeting it at Kings Hwy: (9343-9347 -- 9493-9497)

 

Your train was about 5 minutes slower than mine at PM rush. 25 minutes to Kings Highway versus my 20 minutes. Did I read that right? Your train got to Church Avenue as scheduled just like my train.