Brooklyn Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Ex696]

Is the B53 replacing the  and  on Broadway good? From what it looks like on paper, it will have lower frequencies than either of those routes, it will, however, have higher frequencies than the routes it is replacing north of Broadway Junction, the  and .  I'm assuming it's probably to push more people onto the Broadway-Brooklyn Line or maybe something else?

[Q43LTD]

The B53 to me is like a domino effect. It is scheduled to replace the existing B24, 32 and Q24. Overnights, it will operate between Broadway Junction and Wiliamsburg. I still see people piling on the  and  though

[BrooklynBus]

Assemblyman Novakhov is holding a Transportation forum where you can demand answers from the MTA regarding their Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign on Monday September 18th at the Brooklyn School of Excellence, 23 Brighton 11 St. from 6-7:30 PM. Click on appropriate meeting in link below for flyer and details. There is an RSVP in the flyer. 

Of course the MTA didn’t publicize this event on their website, yet they state they want to hear your feedback. 

https://www.nyc.gov/site/brooklyncb15/meetings/neighborhood-meetings.page

[MysteriousBtrain]

2 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

Assemblyman Novakhov is holding a Transportation forum where you can demand answers from the MTA regarding their Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign on Monday September 18th at the Brooklyn School of Excellence, 23 Brighton 11 St. from 6-7:30 PM. Click on appropriate meeting in link below for flyer and details. There is an RSVP in the flyer. 

Of course the MTA didn’t publicize this event on their website, yet they state they want to hear your feedback. 

https://www.nyc.gov/site/brooklyncb15/meetings/neighborhood-meetings.page

I'm glad Brooklyn is pressuring the MTA the same/similar to the Queens redesign. Hoping Queens will do something similar to this so we can get a somewhat accelerated timeline.

[B35 via Church]

On 9/12/2023 at 10:01 PM, Ex696 said:

Is the B53 replacing the  and  on Broadway good? From what it looks like on paper, it will have lower frequencies than either of those routes, it will, however, have higher frequencies than the routes it is replacing north of Broadway Junction, the  and .  I'm assuming it's probably to push more people onto the Broadway-Brooklyn Line or maybe something else?

On 9/13/2023 at 10:16 PM, Q43LTD said:

The B53 to me is like a domino effect. It is scheduled to replace the existing B24, 32 and Q24. Overnights, it will operate between Broadway Junction and Wiliamsburg. I still see people piling on the  and  though

Vast majority of people that board SB B46's or B47's along Broadway. don't get off along Broadway.... OTOH, turnover is relatively high on the EB Q24 at Broadway Junction.... In other words, the Broadway portion of the proposed B53 would mostly (directly) benefit folks along the more southeastern portion of Broadway.... Being perfectly honest, I always wondered how many more riders would consider the Q24 if it panned further north & west up Broadway.... Guess I'd find out, have this B53 come to fruition.

Something to note, is that the proposed B53 & B66 both serve Broadway Junction & Williamsburg Bridge Plaza - with the B53 running past WBP, on up to Queens.... Outside of merely being cheap, I'm of the belief that the proposed B53 in its entirety is a (poor attempt at a) ridership grab.... At absolute best (or worst, depending on how you look at it), I would merely have this B53 existing for coverage purposes along Broadway, running b/w the 2 aforementioned terminals... Instead of the proposed B53, It is the proposed B66 that I would have running through WBP to pan northwards after the fact - as I see it attracting far more folks from their actual residences..... I'd end it at McCarren Park on the north end, via Driggs/Bedford.... Bear in mind that they have the proposed B62 bypassing WBP....

Even if the thought process is that the current B24 & B32 shouldn't continue to exist as is (which I would concur with), the way they're addressing matters with this proposed B53 is setting that route up for failure.... For one, while the proposed B53 takes over the current B24's Greenpoint av. segment, it's not going to attract the same riders that currently take the B32 b/w the & Greenpoint (the neighborhood).... Nobody in Greenpoint going home from work/school or whatever is going to take the way over to 46th st (or to Court Sq. for the proposed B62). to get to Greenpoint - even if they eliminate that stop at Jackson av/11th st from the proposed B62 (where those folks from off the at Vernon-Jackson walk over to, to catch the bus to get to Brooklyn)..... The amount of biking & walking over the Pulaski bridge is going to increase, if the proposed B53 becomes a reality...

[kingal11234]

Why is there no bus between lower Manhattan and  Red Hook Brooklyn via the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel?

[BrooklynBus]

3 hours ago, kingal11234 said:

Why is there no bus between lower Manhattan and  Red Hook Brooklyn via the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel?

Because the MTA knows it would be very successful and they would rather people use the subways than the buses because they are cheaper to operate. They know if they start 20 or 30 minute service, the buses would be jammed and they would have to triple the service. 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

Because the MTA knows it would be very successful and they would rather people use the subways than the buses because they are cheaper to operate. They know if they start 20 or 30 minute service, the buses would be jammed and they would have to triple the service. 

 

Or the route might fail because that tunnel is so unpredictable.  

 

 Presumably, this route would run out of JG. Are CNG buses allowed in the tunnel?

Edited September 17, 2023 by Gotham Bus Co.

[BrooklynBus]

3 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Or the route might fail because that tunnel is so unpredictable.  

 

 Presumably, this route would run out of JG. Are CNG buses allowed in the tunnel?

The SI and Brooklyn Express buses seem to be doing okay in the tunnel

[Tonyboy515]

13 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

Because the MTA knows it would be very successful and they would rather people use the subways than the buses because they are cheaper to operate. They know if they start 20 or 30 minute service, the buses would be jammed and they would have to triple the service. 

I guess this makes sense given we do have a precedent with the B51 (former route over the Manhattan Bridge between City Hall and Downtown Brooklyn) getting axed in 2010. So, it totally could be a possibility but I doubt any service through the tunnel or similar would return.

[BrooklynBus]

11 hours ago, Tonyboy515 said:

I guess this makes sense given we do have a precedent with the B51 (former route over the Manhattan Bridge between City Hall and Downtown Brooklyn) getting axed in 2010. So, it totally could be a possibility but I doubt any service through the tunnel or similar would return.

It also makes sense because the MTA sabatoged the B51 when it first began. They never wanted it to succeed and always tried to get rid of it. It was suggested from the community who wanted it to run from Grand Army Plaza to City Hall, but the MTA refused stating there were subways under Flatbush Avenue and insisted it go from only Tilllary St to City Hall. 

[Bill from Maspeth]

4 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

It also makes sense because the MTA sabatoged the B51 when it first began. They never wanted it to succeed and always tried to get rid of it. It was suggested from the community who wanted it to run from Grand Army Plaza to City Hall, but the MTA refused stating there were subways under Flatbush Avenue and insisted it go from only Tilllary St to City Hall. 

They are sabotaging the B39 right now.  One bus on the road, 30 minute SCHEDULED headway which can't be maintained due to always being traffic on the WIllyB and Delancey St.  Scheduled trips are regularly missed.  

[Ex696]

2 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

They are sabotaging the B39 right now.  One bus on the road, 30 minute SCHEDULED headway which can't be maintained due to always being traffic on the WIllyB and Delancey St.  Scheduled trips are regularly missed.  

Would bus lanes on the bridge help?

 

[Trainmaster5]

2 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

They are sabotaging the B39 right now.  One bus on the road, 30 minute SCHEDULED headway which can't be maintained due to always being traffic on the WIllyB and Delancey St.  Scheduled trips are regularly missed.  

There should be at least 3 buses assigned to the route during daylight hours and 2 buses for the overnight trips. My opinion. Carry on.

[BrooklynBus]

2 hours ago, Ex696 said:

Would bus lanes on the bridge help?

 

Would be detrimental to traffic. And 30 minute bus service does not justify a bus lane. Even 10 minute service does not justify a bus lane. 

[Ex696]

4 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Would be detrimental to traffic. And 30 minute bus service does not justify a bus lane. Even 10 minute service does not justify a bus lane. 

So then what convinces the MTA not to invest in a good Brooklyn-Manhattan local bus route?

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Ex696 said:

So then what convinces the MTA not to invest in a good Brooklyn-Manhattan local bus route?

As I said, they want as many to use the subway whenever there is a choice between the two, so they will never invest in better Brooklyn-Manhattan local buses. They only care about their costs, not the passengers. It doesn’t matter to them that sone may prefer buses to trains, for whatever reason. It costs them less per passenger for them to ride the subway than the bus, and that’s all that matters to them. The B39 only exists because the subway isn’t fully handicapped accessible. 
 

[Ex696]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

The B39 only exists because the subway isn’t fully handicapped accessible.

But that didn't stop them when they cut it the first time in 2010.

[B35 via Church]

On 9/18/2023 at 8:19 PM, Ex696 said:

So then what convinces the MTA not to invest in a good Brooklyn-Manhattan local bus route?

The subway system (as was said) and the express bus network....

On 9/18/2023 at 11:02 PM, Ex696 said:

But that didn't stop them when they cut it the first time in 2010.

Bear in mind that they were also looking to cut routes that paralleled subway lines back then....

[Travis Mcnonald]

On 9/13/2023 at 10:16 PM, Q43LTD said:

The B53 to me is like a domino effect. It is scheduled to replace the existing B24, 32 and Q24. Overnights, it will operate between Broadway Junction and Wiliamsburg. I still see people piling on the  and  though

That's because most people will take the train over the bus if it means getting to their homes faster. Things got real nutty the last few years when the Subway temporarily closed during the overnight during the pandemic. 

[Travis Mcnonald]

On 9/21/2023 at 7:50 PM, B35 via Church said:

The subway system (as was said) and the express bus network....

Bear in mind that they were also looking to cut routes that paralleled subway lines back then....

Wouldn't that happen to include the B25 as most of that route east of Downtown Brooklyn parallels the A and C trains? Hell, the B26 too to a lesser extent just to the north of Fulton.

[BrooklynBus]

44 minutes ago, Travis Mcnonald said:

Wouldn't that happen to include the B25 as most of that route east of Downtown Brooklyn parallels the A and C trains? Hell, the B26 too to a lesser extent just to the north of Fulton.

They once tried to get rid of the B25 but there was too much opposition, so now they want a partial removal at night, hoping that will help kill the route so they can try again later to kill the route. 

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Travis Mcnonald said:

Wouldn't that happen to include the B25 as most of that route east of Downtown Brooklyn parallels the A and C trains? Hell, the B26 too to a lesser extent just to the north of Fulton.

Yeah, the B25 was slated for extinction back in 2010.

[Travis Mcnonald]

19 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, the B25 was slated for extinction back in 2010.

It could have worked in another world as the B26, B65, and B45 are all not that far away either. I did notice that the B25 had a rather large reduction in late night service in recent years. Also, didn't the B45 used to run 24 hours? 

[B35 via Church]

28 minutes ago, Travis Mcnonald said:

It could have worked in another world as the B26, B65, and B45 are all not that far away either. I did notice that the B25 had a rather large reduction in late night service in recent years. Also, didn't the B45 used to run 24 hours? 

East of Prospect Heights/Clinton Hill, you'd be hard pressed to see a current B25 rider use any of those aforementioned routes interchangeably....

As for the B45, yeah, it stopped being a 24/7 route after the 2010 cuts.... I'd say there's a greater demand for (more) overnight B25 service, than even having had overnight B45 service to begin with....