Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[NBTA]

2 hours ago, TDL said:

Try putting an artic on the narrow streets of Bayswater. At most you could only get 40-footers in there. So only the Q22 would work. Unless a new Q116 is created going from Mott Ave-Sheepshead Bay via. Bayswater with the following limited stops:

Far Rockaway LIRR
Far Rockaway 

Mott Ave/McBride Street

Mott Ave/Eggert Place

Mott Ave/Bay 24th Street

Bayswater Ave/Bay 25th Street

Bayswater Ave/Bay Park Place

Bayswater Ave/Norton Drive

Norton Drive/Cold Spring Road

Norton Drive/Healy Avenue

Bay 32nd Street/Bessemund Avenue

Bay 32nd Street/Falcon Ave

Bay 32nd Street/Beach Channel Drive

Beach 36th St 

Beach 44th St 

Beach 60th St 

Beach 67th St 

Beach 79th St/Rockaway Beach Blvd

Beach 84th St/Rockaway Beach Blvd

Beach 90th St

Beach 98th St

Rockaway Ferry

Beach 116th St

Newport Ave/Beach 129th St

Riis Park

Beach 169th St

Floyd Bennet Field (Aviator)

Shore Pkwy/Knapp Street

Shore Pkwy/Nostrand Ave

Shore Pkwy/Bedford Ave

Shore Pkwy/Ocean Ave

Sheepshead Bay 

Here we go with the sheepshead bay bs…

How about this for an answer?

 

NO.

[limitednyc]

23 minutes ago, NBTA said:

Here we go with the sheepshead bay bs…

How about this for an answer?

 

NO.

Blknybus and his deciples.

 

[Lex]

5 hours ago, TDL said:

Try putting an artic on the narrow streets of Bayswater. At most you could only get 40-footers in there. So only the Q22 would work. Unless a new Q116 is created going from Mott Ave-Sheepshead Bay via. Bayswater with the following limited stops:

Far Rockaway LIRR
Far Rockaway 

Mott Ave/McBride Street

Mott Ave/Eggert Place

Mott Ave/Bay 24th Street

Bayswater Ave/Bay 25th Street

Bayswater Ave/Bay Park Place

Bayswater Ave/Norton Drive

Norton Drive/Cold Spring Road

Norton Drive/Healy Avenue

Bay 32nd Street/Bessemund Avenue

Bay 32nd Street/Falcon Ave

Bay 32nd Street/Beach Channel Drive

Beach 36th St 

Beach 44th St 

Beach 60th St 

Beach 67th St 

Beach 79th St/Rockaway Beach Blvd

Beach 84th St/Rockaway Beach Blvd

Beach 90th St

Beach 98th St

Rockaway Ferry

Beach 116th St

Newport Ave/Beach 129th St

Riis Park

Beach 169th St

Floyd Bennet Field (Aviator)

Shore Pkwy/Knapp Street

Shore Pkwy/Nostrand Ave

Shore Pkwy/Bedford Ave

Shore Pkwy/Ocean Ave

Sheepshead Bay 

At that point, why even have a bus?

[TDL]

18 hours ago, NBTA said:

Here we go with the sheepshead bay bs…

How about this for an answer?

 

NO.

Yes. It is inexcusable that Kingsboro Community College students may face a 2 hour commute to the Rockaways when you can see Rockaway from the school (I am not a student there btw in case you were wondering). If not a bus, an Elmont Flexi-style service between 116th St and Sheepshead Bay .

[limitednyc]

35 minutes ago, TDL said:

Yes. It is inexcusable that Kingsboro Community College students may face a 2 hour commute to the Rockaways when you can see Rockaway from the school (I am not a student there btw in case you were wondering). If not a bus, an Elmont Flexi-style service between 116th St and Sheepshead Bay .

That's there choice ?

[Gotham Bus Co.]

6 hours ago, TDL said:

Yes. It is inexcusable that Kingsboro Community College students may face a 2 hour commute to the Rockaways when you can see Rockaway from the school 

 

From KCC, you're looking at the neighborhood of Breezy Point, which has no public bus service (and wants to keep it that way)  — and barely wants to admit being part of NYC. 

[TDL]

5 hours ago, limitednyc said:

That's there choice ?

Is it really? Not necessarily, that may be the only school they can go to. Also, perhaps Coney Island and Rockaway Beach could use some sort of regional connection, a "Shore Front Line"

[TDL]

16 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

From KCC, you're looking at the neighborhood of Breezy Point, which has no public bus service (and wants to keep it that way)  — and barely wants to admit being part of NYC. 

And last I checked Breezy Point is part of the Rockaways. And while they dont have public buses, they have shuttles to the Q22 and Q35 at Beach 169th. Those same shuttles would connect to the Q116.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

17 minutes ago, TDL said:

And last I checked Breezy Point is part of the Rockaways. And while they dont have public buses, they have shuttles to the Q22 and Q35 at Beach 169th. Those same shuttles would connect to the Q116.

And how much actual demand is there for this?

[limitednyc]

Maybe just have the rockerway ferry make a stop on Sheepsheadbay ?

[TDL]

32 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

And how much actual demand is there for this?

None from Breezy, but from Rockaway its difficult enough to get anywhere without driving. Far Rockaway is a low-income area so many don't have cars, and those that do may not want to sit in endless traffic. Its good to have the options to get to places so close yet so far. Speaking of usch, a Rockaway-Lake Success route via. Green Acres and Queens Village LIRR would be nice, theres definitely demand for Green Acres and LIJ.

[TDL]

4 minutes ago, limitednyc said:

Maybe just have the rockerway ferry make a stop on Sheepsheadbay ?

It may run into the same issues as the Coney Island ferry stop, an Oceanside ferry stop may not be feasible.

[NewFlyer 230]

The Q75 that the MTA proposed is a waste. In my opinion the route should travel down 73rd Street between Springfield Blvd all the way to Main Street. Then I would have it take the Q74’s old route via Vleigh Place to Union Turnpike to Queens Blvd. The MTA is giving Union Turnpike in general a lot more service than needed. Having the Q75 run down 73rd will allow opportunity for new ridership and connectivity and that was taken away in the last proposed plan.

I am not a fan of the QM5 staying on Union Turnpike. Instead of it looping around 64th Ave to head back to Union Turnpike the route should continue north on 188th street and make a left on the Horace Harding and I would have the QM5 serve a new area that doesn’t have express service. My QM5 would stop at Utopia Parkway, 164th street, Parsons Blvd, Kissena Blvd, 150th Street and Main Street then it will continue onto the L.I.E to Midtown. The QM1 would pick up the slack on Union Turnpike between 188th street and Main Street along with the QM6. 
 

[xD4nn]

2 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

The Q75 that the MTA proposed is a waste. In my opinion the route should travel down 73rd Street between Springfield Blvd all the way to Main Street. Then I would have it take the Q74’s old route via Vleigh Place to Union Turnpike to Queens Blvd. The MTA is giving Union Turnpike in general a lot more service than needed. Having the Q75 run down 73rd will allow opportunity for new ridership and connectivity and that was taken away in the last proposed plan.

I would have to agree that having the Q75 is a waste. Little Neck loses direct access to LIRR Jamaica and the Q36 would be even slower under this plan. the Q75 should be routed to somewhere other than Little Neck. The existing Q30 should remain intact. They are prioritizing QCC for no apparent reason which I have mentioned previously. 

Edited January 10 by xD4nn

[Gotham Bus Co.]

1 hour ago, TDL said:

None from Breezy, but from Rockaway its difficult enough to get anywhere without driving. Far Rockaway is a low-income area so many don't have cars, and those that do may not want to sit in endless traffic. Its good to have the options to get to places so close yet so far. Speaking of usch, a Rockaway-Lake Success route via. Green Acres and Queens Village LIRR would be nice, theres definitely demand for Green Acres and LIJ.

 

Devil's Advocate: Does every neighborhood need a direct bus to every CUNY college?  (Far Rockaway already has relatively easy transit access to York, Queens, and Brooklyn Colleges.) 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

7 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

The Q75 that the MTA proposed is a waste. In my opinion the route should travel down 73rd Street between Springfield Blvd all the way to Main Street. 

NIMBYs along 73rd Avenue have already shot down that concept.

 

8 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I am not a fan of the QM5 staying on Union Turnpike. Instead of it looping around 64th Ave to head back to Union Turnpike the route should continue north on 188th street and make a left on the Horace Harding and I would have the QM5 serve a new area that doesn’t have express service. My QM5 would stop at Utopia Parkway, 164th street, Parsons Blvd, Kissena Blvd, 150th Street and Main Street then it will continue onto the L.I.E to Midtown. The QM1 would pick up the slack on Union Turnpike between 188th street and Main Street along with the QM6. 

May as well combine QM4/44 and QM5/35 into one route.

[Ex696]

9 hours ago, limitednyc said:

If not a bus, an Elmont Flexi-style service between 116th St and Sheepshead Bay .

Yes, either this or a shuttle run by the school. A normal bus route shouldn't be for connecting the Rockaways to KCC.

 

Edited January 10 by Ex696

[Ex696]

1 hour ago, xD4nn said:

the Q75 should be routed to somewhere other than Little Neck.

Any ideas on where else? I don't see what's really the problem with having it stay at Little Neck alongside keeping the Q30 intact.

[MysteriousBtrain]

2 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I am not a fan of the QM5 staying on Union Turnpike. Instead of it looping around 64th Ave to head back to Union Turnpike the route should continue north on 188th street and make a left on the Horace Harding and I would have the QM5 serve a new area that doesn’t have express service. My QM5 would stop at Utopia Parkway, 164th street, Parsons Blvd, Kissena Blvd, 150th Street and Main Street then it will continue onto the L.I.E to Midtown. The QM1 would pick up the slack on Union Turnpike between 188th street and Main Street along with the QM6. 

As long as we're on this topic, the QM Union Tpke routes in the new plan was actually the one good exp proposal. Imo should have kept it like that. 

Another thing I would change is giving the QM63/64/68 direct access to Bellevue during AM hours. It's easy access from FDR and idk why it would be skipped if the stop is retained during PM hrs. (Although 2 Av is the added, I don't see this stop being a suitable replacement if there's enough Bellevue riders that complain.)

[Gotham Bus Co.]

22 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Another thing I would change is giving the QM63/64/68 direct access to Bellevue during AM hours. It's easy access from FDR and idk why it would be skipped if the stop is retained during PM hrs. (Although 2 Av is the added, I don't see this stop being a suitable replacement if there's enough Bellevue riders that complain.)

 

I think the idea was to have them mimic the QM21. The block from 2nd Avenue to 1st Avenue isn't too far to walk, and using 2nd Avenue is faster than the 34th-FDR slog.

 

[NewFlyer 230]

2 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

NIMBYs along 73rd Avenue have already shot down that concept.

 

May as well combine QM4/44 and QM5/35 into one route.

That’s a shame with the Q75. Might as well not have the route be a thing at all because Union Turnpike will be over served and that bus service can be used elsewhere. A better plan might be to bring back the old Q75 but instead of it terminating 69th Ave/230th street have it run to QCC and call it a day. Make the Q17 a rush route past 188th & 73rd Ave. 
 

What I’m attempting to do with the QM5 via Horace Harding (188th street-Main Street) is cater to new riders while also strengthening out the route. The MTA is taking the cheap way out by keeping everything the same but overall express bus usage is down compared to what it was back in 2005/2006 when the MTA takeover occurred. I remember a time when the QM4 would have a line for it at some of the tops and nowadays a QM4 can skip a stop like Kissena Blvd during the middle of rush hour. 
The QM4 runs on Jewel Ave so I’d rather it doing that instead of having some combined service with the QM4. 
 

My problem with the Queens express network is that most of the routes are outdated and with the redesigned there was no effort made to at least expand service to increase service. In a later post I can explain the routing I’d have some routes do in Manhattan. I’m not all too sure how the 3rd Ave express routes do like the QM32, QM44, QM35 and etc but my plan would be to eliminate some of the weak performing 3rd Ave routes in favor of route that terminate around Broadway and Houston Street in that part of the city. Not only does it serve a new area the Queens express routes don’t serve but it can help when the QBL is undergoing construction and train service is slow. 

[checkmatechamp13]

One of the things I realized is that the QM63/64/68 don't stop at 2nd Avenue & 34th Street, despite passing by there (anybody who needs that area needs to make their way to the Downtown routes stopping at 34th & 1st).

I also realized that the QM63 (but not the QM64/68) is adding a stop at Queens Blvd & Woodhaven Blvd. 

[xD4nn]

4 hours ago, Ex696 said:

Any ideas on where else? I don't see what's really the problem with having it stay at Little Neck alongside keeping the Q30 intact.

If they are so keen on keeping QCC service, they should swap terminals with the proposed Q30.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

On 1/7/2024 at 3:55 PM, Ex696 said:

But are there large consequences from cutting the area around 103rd Street-Corona Plaza from direct access to Forest Hills?

It's not necessarily about direct access from (parts of) Forest Hills, but also from Corona further away from Roosevelt. I'm opposed to any proposal that would have the Q23 avoid serving Corona Plaza. It would be a detriment, both for riders seeking the intermediate area and those looking for subway access. The walking distance from 108th Street is nothing to overlook, it might not as egregious as some of the other changes but you would end up killing ridership because most people wouldn't want to deal with that on a daily basis.

The way the Q23 gets into Corona Plaza should be changed, there's no need to have it take 43rd to National headed north, that is unnecessary and adds up additional mileage just to sit in traffic most of the time. The thing should take 108th to Roosevelt, then up 103rd (SB buses would come down 104th). Yeah Roosevelt isn't easy in that area either but it would be smoother than what it currently puts up with. 

On 1/8/2024 at 6:17 AM, NBTA said:

I got a couple of questions that people can answer if they like:

Would an extension/combination of the Q47/49 be feasible?

How about the Q33 via 69th Street to Middle Village?

Can the Q72 replaces the southern portion of the Q29 (below Woodhaven)?

Would combining the Q104 and the northern section of the B53 be too much?

Just some extensions I put in the simulator, to “save resources” like the MTA does. 

Even with the fact that I'm not sure how a Q47/Q49 merge would work, I would keep the Q49 alone, route-wise it does a decent job trying to hit most of the residential areas in the respective areas who want 74th Street. It needs to be kept alone. Also, even though the route is short it seems that the route is horrendous nowadays in terms of reliability. Buses bunching in twos and threes, no matter the time of day. The headways become utter crap  because of the bunching in the reverse-peak direction because it isn't as frequent. 

The Q33 is in a similar boat to the Q49, good ridership and short route but can be fairly unreliable, the difference is that the Q33 runs through more of commercial Jackson Heights and Roosevelt Avenue. Don't know what the end game is with this proposal in particular tbh. 

As far as the Q72, so what happens to the Q29 (above Woodhaven)? Riders headed north of Queens Boulevard on the Q29 aren't seeking Corona, so the Q72 wouldn't come at a benefit. Plus, the amount of traffic it would have to contend on its route, from LGA to the area around LeFrak, QCM, and along Woodhaven Boulevard. Even if you were to cut such a route from LGA it would still be plagued by a lot of chokepoints (with little benefit to existing riders). 

I don't know where your cut off for "northern section of the B53" is but AFAIC, some potential combo I could see working to some extent. I would consider combining the Greenpoint Ave leg of the proposed B53 with the 48th Street portion of the Q104 and extending/rerouting to Northern Blvd  station on its eastern end & Nassau Avenue  on its Western End. The other thing I could see doing is combining the Greenpoint section of the proposed B53 + most of the proposed Q68 east of 48th Street + either the Q47 north of Roosevelt Avenue or heading straight across Roosevelt Avenue to somewhere in Corona (the latter for the sake of avoiding layover issues in Jackson Heights with adding a Roosevelt Avenue east route).

The existing B32 should be retained for the most part, not be morphed into the abomination that is the B53, I have given several potential ways to do so in this post (see Q101/Q103/Q105 comments). 

On 1/7/2024 at 4:11 PM, shiznit1987 said:

This is why I suggested breaking up the Q44: 

Q44 SBS: Fordham to Flushing

Q45 SBS: Flushing to Jamaica w/ possible extention to JFK. 

 

 

On 1/7/2024 at 4:17 PM, Ex696 said:

There is too much through ridership at Flushing for the Q44 to broken up.

Not to mention the shit ton of buses that would now be competing for layover space, somewhere in Downtown Flushing. You'd take more time trying to lay over than by switching operators over there at 39th Avenue. Downtown Flushing is pretty saturated during the day, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that having that many more BPH running through, turning, and taking up space overall would paralyze traffic (which BTW does happen right now).  So yeah, I agree that Flushing isn't an ideal spot to break up the route. 

On 1/9/2024 at 11:47 AM, TDL said:

Try putting an artic on the narrow streets of Bayswater. At most you could only get 40-footers in there. So only the Q22 would work. Unless a new Q116 is created going from Mott Ave-Sheepshead Bay via. Bayswater with the following limited stops:

*List of stops*

Contrary to what you might believe, artic buses tend to have smaller turning radius than standard-size buses. While the bus is longer, it's not as rigid due to the articulated section. It basically cuts the bus and half and adds a flexible/bendable portion that otherwise doesn't exist with 40-footers. Meaning that it'll be able to take turns easier. Depending on the dimensions and the model, turning radius would likely fall somewhere between that of its 30 foot and 40 foot counterpart. 

Also, Far Rockaway to Sheepshead Bay is crazy, lol. That and the seemingly abrupt way it you brought that route up made it seem like you just wanted to bring up a Sheepshead Bay proposal for the sake of it. I think others said what needed to be said, so I don't have much else to add there. 

Edited January 11 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Ex696]

8 hours ago, xD4nn said:

If they are so keen on keeping QCC service, they should swap terminals with the proposed Q30.

I have a feeling that they would reduce the proposed frequency on the Q30 if they have it skipping QCC due to the said prioritization you said earlier.