Lex Posted January 26 Share #3626 Posted January 26 12 minutes ago, limitednyc said: B27/b62 combo was the old b61. The proposed B27 is largely a portion of the old B75. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limitednyc Posted January 26 Share #3627 Posted January 26 Just now, Lex said: The proposed B27 is largely a portion of the old B75. True 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex696 Posted January 26 Share #3628 Posted January 26 1 hour ago, limitednyc said: B27/b62 combo was the old b61. The one they are talking about is the portion of the B62 between Williamsburg Bridge Plaza and Downtown Brooklyn and combining it with the B27 so that it would run between Williamsburg Bridge Plaza and Red Hook as opposed to the B61 prior to 2010, which ran between Red Hook and Queens Plaza. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted January 26 Share #3629 Posted January 26 I wonder would the B53 still exist under this plan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 27 Share #3630 Posted January 27 5 hours ago, limitednyc said: B27/b62 combo was the old b61. Their proposed B27 uses Smith/Court to get to/from Red Hook.... The old B61 did no such thing. 4 hours ago, Ex696 said: The one they are talking about is the portion of the B62 between Williamsburg Bridge Plaza and Downtown Brooklyn and combining it with the B27 so that it would run between Williamsburg Bridge Plaza and Red Hook as opposed to the B61 prior to 2010, which ran between Red Hook and Queens Plaza. Yes, exactly... I wasn't implicating that the old B61 be reverted in the slightest... For several reasons.... 3 hours ago, Q43LTD said: I wonder would the B53 still exist under this plan Under which plan? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted January 27 Share #3631 Posted January 27 21 minutes ago, B35 via Church said: Under which plan? If the B32 was extended north to Astoria rather than the 62. I do like the 27 to Williamsburg though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 27 Share #3632 Posted January 27 9 hours ago, Q43LTD said: If the B32 was extended north to Astoria rather than the 62. I do like the 27 to Williamsburg though The B53 shouldn't be a thing, in any plan... LOL. In any event though, while I do see a certain market/demand for Astoria - Williamsburg travel, and for whatever backlash the proposed B57 has precipitated, I still see it garnering more interborough usage than the proposed B62 (or, than for if the proposed B27 were to be extended to Astoria).... Even interborough usage on the current B62 has (and is continuing to) wane.... Interborough usage on the old B61 (that Red Hook - Queens Plaza rendition) from Downtown on up, dwarfed that of the current B62.... One could argue that the gentrification of north Williamsburg has to do with it, but I wouldn't say that alone tells the full story.... Although I'm not all that gung-ho about retaining coverage on Smith/Court, I think it's a bit of overkill to create a whole 'nother route to have that coverage be retained, because they're pushing the envelope with the proposed B57 (to Jackson Heights) & with the proposed B62 (to Astoria).... Most of the usage of a route like that proposed B27 would likely be between the Farragut houses & Downtown Brooklyn.... I don't see the Red Hook - Downtown Brooklyn patronage of that proposed B27 being any closer to a balancement to the current/proposed B61 (in other words, those masses will continue to dogpile on B61's).... With all that said, to sum it up: The proposed B57 is a better usage of mileage, for the purpose of spurring interborough usage (compared to the proposed B62) The proposed B62 doesn't remotely need to be one continuous route (nor should it be the "main" route along 21st, but that's another discussion).... So, being that they're proposing the B27 to retain coverage along Smith/Court, I would redistribute mileage by truncating the proposed B62 & extending the proposed B27, to have them both end at WBP 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted January 27 Share #3633 Posted January 27 2 hours ago, B35 via Church said: The B53 shouldn't be a thing, in any plan... LOL. In any event though, while I do see a certain market/demand for Astoria - Williamsburg travel, and for whatever backlash the proposed B57 has precipitated, I still see it garnering more interborough usage than the proposed B62 (or, than for if the proposed B27 were to be extended to Astoria).... Even interborough usage on the current B62 has (and is continuing to) wane.... Interborough usage on the old B61 (that Red Hook - Queens Plaza rendition) from Downtown on up, dwarfed that of the current B62.... One could argue that the gentrification of north Williamsburg has to do with it, but I wouldn't say that alone tells the full story.... Although I'm not all that gung-ho about retaining coverage on Smith/Court, I think it's a bit of overkill to create a whole 'nother route to have that coverage be retained, because they're pushing the envelope with the proposed B57 (to Jackson Heights) & with the proposed B62 (to Astoria).... Most of the usage of a route like that proposed B27 would likely be between the Farragut houses & Downtown Brooklyn.... I don't see the Red Hook - Downtown Brooklyn patronage of that proposed B27 being any closer to a balancement to the current/proposed B61 (in other words, those masses will continue to dogpile on B61's).... With all that said, to sum it up: The proposed B57 is a better usage of mileage, for the purpose of spurring interborough usage (compared to the proposed B62) The proposed B62 doesn't remotely need to be one continuous route (nor should it be the "main" route along 21st, but that's another discussion).... So, being that they're proposing the B27 to retain coverage along Smith/Court, I would redistribute mileage by truncating the proposed B62 & extending the proposed B27, to have them both end at WBP I think the B27 is being set up to fail. It doesn’t go to many places and has poor headways. They don’t want any bus service on Smith /Court. After a year, they will just say there s not enough demand to justify the service, If they just discontinue the service today, they are afraid of protests. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted January 27 Share #3634 Posted January 27 4 hours ago, B35 via Church said: The B53 shouldn't be a thing, in any plan... LOL. In any event though, while I do see a certain market/demand for Astoria - Williamsburg travel, and for whatever backlash the proposed B57 has precipitated, I still see it garnering more interborough usage than the proposed B62 (or, than for if the proposed B27 were to be extended to Astoria).... Even interborough usage on the current B62 has (and is continuing to) wane.... Interborough usage on the old B61 (that Red Hook - Queens Plaza rendition) from Downtown on up, dwarfed that of the current B62.... One could argue that the gentrification of north Williamsburg has to do with it, but I wouldn't say that alone tells the full story.... Although I'm not all that gung-ho about retaining coverage on Smith/Court, I think it's a bit of overkill to create a whole 'nother route to have that coverage be retained, because they're pushing the envelope with the proposed B57 (to Jackson Heights) & with the proposed B62 (to Astoria).... Most of the usage of a route like that proposed B27 would likely be between the Farragut houses & Downtown Brooklyn.... I don't see the Red Hook - Downtown Brooklyn patronage of that proposed B27 being any closer to a balancement to the current/proposed B61 (in other words, those masses will continue to dogpile on B61's).... With all that said, to sum it up: The proposed B57 is a better usage of mileage, for the purpose of spurring interborough usage (compared to the proposed B62) The proposed B62 doesn't remotely need to be one continuous route (nor should it be the "main" route along 21st, but that's another discussion).... So, being that they're proposing the B27 to retain coverage along Smith/Court, I would redistribute mileage by truncating the proposed B62 & extending the proposed B27, to have them both end at WBP So the: B27 Wiliiamsburg-Red Hook (no Navy Yard service) B32 Williamsburg-Astoria possibly a rush or a LTD on 21 St. Maybe local B62 Downtown Brooklyn-Williamsburg Now what to do about that Greenpoint Av leg of the proposed B53 since it wouldn't be a thing and the feeling there has to be a through Broadway route 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted January 27 Share #3635 Posted January 27 Regarding the Greenpoint Avenue leg of the current B24/proposed B53, is there any impression that people want to go to Woodside/Jackson Heights? I haven't used the B24 at all, so I have to ask. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyBusLover1 Posted January 27 Share #3636 Posted January 27 Random but is it true that they are getting rid of the Q101bus ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted January 27 Share #3637 Posted January 27 5 minutes ago, TyBusLover1 said: Random but is it true that they are getting rid of the Q101bus ? .....you should probably look through the drafts before asking questions. Here's your answer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 27 Share #3638 Posted January 27 (edited) 6 hours ago, BrooklynBus said: I think the B27 is being set up to fail. It doesn’t go to many places and has poor headways. They don’t want any bus service on Smith /Court. After a year, they will just say there's not enough demand to justify the service, If they just discontinue the service today, they are afraid of protests. I wouldn't doubt it. 4 hours ago, Q43LTD said: So the: B27 Wiliiamsburg-Red Hook (no Navy Yard service) B32 Williamsburg-Astoria possibly a rush or a LTD on 21 St. Maybe local B62 Downtown Brooklyn-Williamsburg Now what to do about that Greenpoint Av leg of the proposed B53 since it wouldn't be a thing and the feeling there has to be a through Broadway route If you're referring to service inside the Navy Yard, nothing at this point (MTA related I mean) should be running inside there.... Current B67 carries air through there & on top of it, barely gets riders in Williamsburg because they stubbed it in the southern portion of Williamsburg - which is clearly not where the demand is at.... FTR, I'm not saying extend the B32 to Astoria & cut the current B62 back at WBP from Downtown; that would leave the Bedford/Driggs portion with nothing... I'm saying that the proposed B62 should be cut back to WBP from Astoria.... The (extended) B27 would handle the Downtown Brooklyn - WBP portion/duties of the current B62, before making its way down to Red Hook.... I would be very iffy about merely having a route running the current B62 course b/w Downtown & WBP..... People aren't taking buses on Park av the way they used to, for whatever reason..... As far as the waterfront area goes, I'm not so sure it would be worth it to have some number of B62's (Astoria - WBP) diverting to serve it... So depending on how much (improved) service would be given to said B62's in question, I'd be fine with completely cutting ties with the B32.... It only garnered the patronage/level of favorability from Greenpoint riders, due to the deteriorating/diminishing quality of service that has plagued the current B62 I'd say for at least a decade now..... I was going to make another point about the B32 (regarding the fact that Williamsburg Waterfront patrons aren't gunning for the /), but something just hit me.... Come to think of it, I DO remember reading posts from different subreddits over the years, basically blurting out the sentiment of having bus service connect them to Bushwick and/or Ridgewood.... Doubt they actually want the Broadway part of Bushwick , but now I'm starting to wonder if that had a hand in spawning the proposed B53..... 4 hours ago, Lex said: Regarding the Greenpoint Avenue leg of the current B24/proposed B53, is there any impression that people want to go to Woodside/Jackson Heights? No idea... I mean, if there is, it would be news to me. 12 minutes ago, TyBusLover1 said: Random but is it true that they are getting rid of the Q101bus ? It will, but not 100% as it is currently.... The main takeaway is that it won't run to Manhattan anymore. Proposed final plan: Q101 local Edited January 27 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyBusLover1 Posted January 28 Share #3639 Posted January 28 4 hours ago, Cait Sith said: .....you should probably look through the drafts before asking questions. Here's your answer. 👍🏾 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted January 28 Share #3640 Posted January 28 4 hours ago, B35 via Church said: If you're referring to service inside the Navy Yard, nothing at this point (MTA related I mean) should be running inside there.... Current B67 carries air through there & on top of it, barely gets riders in Williamsburg because they stubbed it in the southern portion of Williamsburg - which is clearly not where the demand is at.... Perhaps, I should have said B27 Williamsburg Bridge Plaza with no service through Navy Yard to Red Hook. Since you said the NY shuttles get good usage 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex696 Posted January 28 Share #3641 Posted January 28 Something I never thought about until recently, what's with trying to reroute buses from around the Queens Plaza area to the Hunters Point Ferry? I know Long Island City is the second biggest CBD in the city, but the proposed Amazon HQ was canceled. Has the ferry become more popular over the years or is there something else amiss? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted January 28 Share #3642 Posted January 28 4 hours ago, Ex696 said: Something I never thought about until recently, what's with trying to reroute buses from around the Queens Plaza area to the Hunters Point Ferry? I know Long Island City is the second biggest CBD in the city, but the proposed Amazon HQ was canceled. Has the ferry become more popular over the years or is there something else amiss? That LIC ferry has been popular ever since it began, and it hasn't let up since, even with the fare increase to $4. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 28 Share #3643 Posted January 28 11 hours ago, Q43LTD said: Perhaps, I should have said B27 Williamsburg Bridge Plaza with no service through Navy Yard to Red Hook. Since you said the NY shuttles get good usage Yeah, no worries. 11 hours ago, Ex696 said: Something I never thought about until recently, what's with trying to reroute buses from around the Queens Plaza area to the Hunters Point Ferry? I know Long Island City is the second biggest CBD in the city, but the proposed Amazon HQ was canceled. Has the ferry become more popular over the years or is there something else amiss? The simple answer is that they're trying to target a different demographic. But just what is LIC the 2nd biggest CBD in this city in? As in, in terms of what? Square-footage? Number of jobs? Number of employers? 6 hours ago, Cait Sith said: That LIC ferry has been popular ever since it began, and it hasn't let up since, even with the fare increase to $4. What I would honestly like to know about these ferries is, how far are the people that use them as part of their commute typically traveling to get to them.... Well that, and how many/what percentage are using buses and/or subways to get to them.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex696 Posted January 28 Share #3644 Posted January 28 17 hours ago, Cait Sith said: That LIC ferry has been popular ever since it began, and it hasn't let up since, even with the fare increase to $4. Is it primarily used by commuters, tourists, or some other demographic? And depending on whether or not they tend to be crowded or not, would they be able to handle possible increases in passengers from the incoming bus service? The Q101 has semi-decent ridership, and Astoria residents along the Q103 already have a ferry there, and generally speaking, the Q103 has abysmal ridership, so I'm not expecting much from that route in general, though I could be wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDL Posted January 30 Share #3645 Posted January 30 On 1/28/2024 at 8:13 AM, B35 via Church said: Yeah, no worries. The simple answer is that they're trying to target a different demographic. But just what is LIC the 2nd biggest CBD in this city in? As in, in terms of what? Square-footage? Number of jobs? Number of employers? What I would honestly like to know about these ferries is, how far are the people that use them as part of their commute typically traveling to get to them.... Well that, and how many/what percentage are using buses and/or subways to get to them.... https://www.timeout.com/newyork/news/riding-the-nyc-ferry-will-now-cost-new-yorkers-4-per-ride-071522 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDL Posted January 30 Share #3646 Posted January 30 Just now, TDL said: https://www.timeout.com/newyork/news/riding-the-nyc-ferry-will-now-cost-new-yorkers-4-per-ride-071522 More would use public transport to the ferries if they had free transfers, but they dont. In Rockaway, theres a shuttle bus for the Peninsula, as there is at 34th Street. Lower Manhattan has the Downtown Connector. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotham Bus Co. Posted January 31 Share #3647 Posted January 31 On 1/30/2024 at 1:26 PM, TDL said: https://www.timeout.com/newyork/news/riding-the-nyc-ferry-will-now-cost-new-yorkers-4-per-ride-071522 I see the NYC Ferry system eventually becoming the MTA Boat Company. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted January 31 Share #3648 Posted January 31 52 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said: I see the NYC Ferry system eventually becoming the MTA Boat Company. Because they run everything else so well? (Autocorrect tried to change run to ruin. Maybe I should have let it.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted January 31 Share #3649 Posted January 31 54 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said: I see the NYC Ferry system eventually becoming the MTA Boat Company. Trust me, we don't need MBTA over there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted February 1 Share #3650 Posted February 1 On 1/13/2024 at 2:56 PM, B35 via Church said: 1) Lol... I wouldn't preserve ending buses in Hamilton Beach because they're overserving both Hamilton Beach & Old Howard Beach.... Quite frankly, I don't see that level of service to either branch being upheld anyway - regardless of which branch(es) trips are terminating in... If they don't leave things as they are with the current Q11 down there, I can easily see a scenario where they have alternating trips [not serving Old Howard Beach and Hamilton Beach (whether they'd have such trips ending at Pitkin, or ending somewhere in Lindenwood, or something another)] & [serving both Old Howard Beach & Hamilton Beach (with these trips ending in Old Howard Beach, as per the final plan)], if they're going to keep those proposed service levels.... 2) This isn't to say I necessarily support it, but I do understand why they'd want to cut the B46 back to Woodhull (even moreso than them wanting to cut the Q24 back to B'way Junction.... again).... However, no parts of that reason should ever be to justify a route like that B53.... I'm of the firm belief that they really/ultimately want all B46 service (local & SBS) ending at Woodhull.... While they still got the B47 at Woodhull for now anyway, I still can't get over their proposing to end the B15 at Montrose , of all places... For the sake of discussion I guess, regarding your last statement there, while I'm not all that wild about a Broadway route, I wouldn't so much mind something running b/w Woodhull Hospital & B'way Junction.... The primary purpose would of course be for mere coverage, with the secondary purpose being for taking the Q24 & B47 off Broadway - over taking the B46 away from WBP & the B15 from Woodhull as the MTA proposed in that Brooklyn network revamp... 3) Yep... Very strange way to break up the current Q30... Not in favor of that impending Q75 in the slightest; not sure which I despise more - it, or the Q88 proposed in the previous draft... If it's anything I'd propose changing when it comes to HHE/LNP, it's to have the Q12 & the Q30 both end there somehow - I've always thought there was value in connecting those 2 routes.... The hell with extending the Q12 to LIRR Great Neck; that would significantly compromise the route for the sake of an exponential increase in ridership (similar to my sentiment regarding extending the Q44 to Fordham)... But yeah, if it came down to these 3 ways of serving the eastern portion of HHE, I'm 100% a proponent of doing so by way of the current Q30.... 4) So I see. When it comes to serving Queens patrons, I'm not considering the n1/n6 because they're not open door services in Queens... Queens patrons proximate to the county line aren't remotely taking n1's & n6's to circumnavigate taking Q2's.... The reason I don't take issue with the impending Q82, is because I see it as more of (but not completely) a complement to the Q2 - as opposed to a supplement of it (which I'm of the belief is the basis of the point of contention/disapproval)... With the Q110 ending up being stripped from Hempstead av, the Q2 would be overburdened a bit (if it were to be the only route serving Hempstead av)... Considering all the stops being removed from Hollis av, dwell times at the remaining stops are going to significantly increase; the Q2 carries heavy along Hollis av.... Even being that the Q2 would be more frequent, I think riders (Hempstead av) will increasingly grow to be fed up with what could potentially happen along Hollis av... This is where the Q82 comes in..... The real question is, how many/what percent of Hempstead av. area patrons are seeking 179th , in comparison to Jamaica Center.... I wouldn't know if the latter comes all that close to the former, given the amount of folks typically gunning for Q2's over Q110's out there... Gun to my head decision, for the sake of running an MTA route to North Shore Hospital, I'd just extend the Q30 the 1 stop & call it a day.... I would not run a service like the QT34 all day, for fear of a severe lack of total ridership..... Lastly, while running the Q110 to 257th is a great contingency plan to avoid dealing with NIMBY's, I don't think they're nearly as much a problem/as potent like they were when it came down to the suggestion of running the Q79 to LIRR Floral Park back then..... I know its taboo to talk about on these forums, but while it's still predominantly old money Whites out there, new money Asians have been & still are snatching up property in that central western part of Nassau County; that whole Floral Park - New Hyde Park - North New Hyde Park - Garden City Park region.... Unlike those old money Whites of yesteryear, the Indian population are making their presence known on public transit too - whether it's on the n22, n24, or on the LIRR Main Line at Merillon, New Hyde Park, and Floral Park itself.... 5) I just wish they had the Q39 run with the Q67 between 55th av/58th st & 48th/Laurel Hill. 6) So you don't think it deserved the old S60 treatment huh .... Jokes aside, to be perfectly honest, IDK what those patrons want when it comes to public bus service... I never got the sense they were all that fond of the Q22a back when that existed... IDK if it's a case of not wanting buses running through their area full time, or at all (like out in Breezy Point)..... Running Q52's in particular through there though just seems wildly excessive - even given the general idea of wanting to extend that route to Far Rockaway.... I'm not even talking about anything relating to turning radii.. To give an example of what I mean, I couldn't imagine running the Bx5 through an area like Country Club... IDK if there was ever any truth to it, but supposedly at one point, they had artics running on the Bx13... I would've liked to have seen that - better yet, rode on it. 7) The impending Q38 (via Penelope, 63rd dr, etc.). 1) I have to check the Trip Planner (which seems to give a preview of what the proposed schedule they would run on the route), but from what it sounds like, pretty much all of the current Q11/21 service would end up running down through Lindenwood, and then splitting between Old Howard Beach/Hamilton Beach. I don't think the planners calculated that they would be overserving the southern end of the route. 2) Hmm....essentially trading the B47 for the B46 SBS at Woodhull...I wonder how that would look from a budget perspective and if they'd be looking to consolidate like that (it's a longer distance from where the B47 turns onto Broadway, but the B46 SBS is more frequent). 3) In the original draft, they had the Q12 (numbered QT17) running down Marathon Parkway and ending at the present-day Q30 terminal. Would you have it use Marathon, or run down Little Neck Parkway? (Not sure how the turnaround scenario would look in that case) 4) The idea behind my revision of their QT34 would be to connect Little Neck Parkway to Jamaica via a more direct route (rather than having it backtrack all the way to Jamaica Avenue and head back up, or having a Q79-type shuttle). 5) In the original proposal, the QT77 ran like that, but the issue is the people in the vicinity of Laurel Hill Blvd & 58th Street complained about the lack of a connection to LIC...to have the Q39 bypass that area and have nothing (rather than at least the 58th Street route they had in that proposal...I think it was called QT80 IIRC) might generate enough opposition to scare them off from doing so. 6) The Q22A seemed to be more focused on getting Far Rockaway residents (and those connecting at Far Rockaway) over to Bayswater during school hours, rather than being focused on getting Bayswater residents to other areas. Other than maybe a straight out Q22 extension (or having the Q22 run through there while the Q52 serves the southern end of Far Rockaway), I'm not sure how else to feasibly serve it. 7) Got it. On 1/13/2024 at 5:17 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said: First Draft QT12 via Northern Blvd to/from Main Street QT34 via HHE/Winchester/Hillside to/from 179th Street QT87 via Jewel/73rd Ave/Springfield/HHE to/from 71st Avenue Second Draft Q45 via LNP & Hillside to/from 179th Street Q88 via HHE to/from Woodhaven Boulevard Third Draft (Current) Q36 via LNP/Jamaica Ave/Springfield Blvd/Hillside to/from 179th Street Q75 via HHE/188th/Union Turnpike to/from Briarwood To clarify, the first draft had the QT17 via Northern Blvd (the QT12 was the present-day Q88 truncated to QCC) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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