Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[JAzumah]

47 minutes ago, TDL said:

https://www.rockawave.com/articles/letters-1-5-24/

You should propose a summer seasonal test bus between Rockaway Park and Sheepshead Bay. They can use surplus express bus equipment on it.

[BrooklynBus]

11 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

You should propose a summer seasonal test bus between Rockaway Park and Sheepshead Bay. They can use surplus express bus equipment on it.

A test would be a great idea. Something the MTA does not do. I was thinking of it more for commuters than for people going to the beach. 

[B35 via Church]

19 hours ago, Ex696 said:

The Q50 section in the Bronx is 7.3 miles, the Q44, with the proposed Fordham extension, is 4.6 miles. making the Q50 a Select bus service route isn't gonna make it faster than the Q44.

,,,,nor in any more of a demand.

The main issue with a mileage swap or w/e of that sort isn't even the added distance, it's the fact that demand towards PBP & Co-Op CIty from points south of Flushing doesn't remotely come close to that of the current Q44 north of Flushing, let alone an extension towards Fordham.... At that point, it's counterproductive.... The speed of a route of a direct commute people have little to no use for, is irrelevant.... If you're going to induce turnover, there's not much of a point to increase the footprint of the route in The Bronx (emanating from Jamaica) to Co-Op City... You may as well go about doing that whole, running Q44's b/w Jamaica & Flushing, and running a Flushing - Fordham route, like what's been proposed in the past {"Q94"}.....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

On 1/13/2024 at 9:04 PM, B35 via Church said:

Q31: Westchester Sq. makes for a convenient xfer point, but the problem is that it & Bronx State Hospital are in opposite directions... That's why the Bx21 backdoors to terminate at Westchester Sq. after serving Bronx State Hospital... As long as I have the route connecting to the elsewhere, I don't see not serving Westchester Sq as detrimental... Maybe I should've drawn a map, but the only connection that would be missed out on is the Bx4/4a....

• it would run along the Bx21 b/w Westchester/Waters & Eastchester/Morris Park
• it would run along the Bx31 b/w Waters & Pelham Pkwy
• it would connect with the Bx8 along Westchester av, as well as at Middletown/Crosby
• it would run along the Bx24 along Marconi (I wouldn't have the route u-turn at the Call Center though)
• it would connect with the Bx40/42 at E. Tremont/Bruckner Blvd like the Q50 already does

Speaking of which, the other thing I want to avoid is running the thing on E. Tremont av.... The main point of the route is to serve the bevy of medical facilities in the general area of the Bronx... Anything else is secondary... That's why I'm not overly concerned with not having it serve Westchester Sq.... Something replacing the Bx24 is a Bronx issue & quite frankly, it shouldn't take a route coming from Flushing to accomplish that

Q38: I thought about ending it around Domino Park (and I do see it getting decent usage around there too), but with every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Sally trying the be the next Spielberg with all these dam indie film shoots around & about the general area (leading to all these street closures), I'm rather leery about it.... Regardless, to your point, I don't have a problem with terminating such a route at QB... I mean, I get wanting to run the Q54 & the Q59 together in Brooklyn, but not at the expense/mercy of a B62 that'd skip WBP & with the best proposed Brooklyn route thus far - The B53 </sarcasm>  - Neither of which serves Williamsburg in an easterly-westerly fashion.

Q67: If it's anything that I'd have terminating where they have the impending Q14 doing so, it's the Q18.... I would've liked to have seen the Q18 b/w Woodside av & the LIE branched between running along 65th pl. & 69th st, to then run down the rest of 69th st to shoot across Met. av to Fresh Pond rd.... I have always despised where/how the current Q18 terminates on the southern end of the route....

As for that proposal I had to try to make the Q67 more of a commuter route (the one I had ending on Cooper/Myrtle), I don't think I'm going to revisit it (large in part, because I would like such a route to at least connect to Woodhaven Blvd).... To sum it up, it started on Cooper/71st, then did Cooper-73rd-Cooper-80th-Metropolitan-69th-Borden.... Long story short, I didn't have it serving the .

Q31: I wouldn't have a route from Flushing do that either (go down Tremont Ave). Way I saw it, it would take Zerega to Westchester, then Waters Place (passing by Westchester Square along the way, no weird loops needed around that area. As far as the Bx24, I brought it up since we were discussing such a route (and given that it would mimic the Bx24, why not kill two birds with one stone?).

Overall I do agree that dealing with the Bx24 overall is a Bronx issue, I do think it is worth discussing that as it specifically pertains to this proposal. There would be a notable overlap between Westchester Square and Hutchinson Metro Center between the two routes, and the Bx24 both runs infrequently and has very little through riding at Westchester Square. The rest of the Bx24 of course is another conversation, although I wouldn't hesitate to can the Bx24 out of there should a route like this come to fruition. Also, if not the 911 call center, where would those buses u-turn, near the Amazon facility? That's probably the only other place I see feasible (both operationally and in terms of coverage). 

Q38: True (to that last point)...lol. Also far as the B62 goes, the fact that's not even the worst part about the whole proposal is something else. 

Q18/Q67: Alright, so the Q18 would essentially be the bus that connects 69th Street in that area down to the . I guess I'm not too opposed with such a Q67 setup, when you mention it that way. One thing I will say though is that either the frequency of the Q18 would need to be boosted or there would need to be short-turns to/from 61st Street during parts of the day, because the waits on the branched sections (since you mention between Woodside Ave and the LIE) will add up. It would make the route straighter of course, but infrequent. On the flip side, my gripe with what's proposed for the Q18 is the elimination of 69th Street as if those stops don't account for a considerable chunk of ridership south of the .  I guess can see why you would want to do that if you just looked at some map. Not saying that you're doing that; route-wise I'm okay with branching the Q18 like you suggested. It's just the brushing off of 69th Street ridership by the planners as if it's interchangeable and insignificant that annoys me. 

There tends to be long lines at 69th St & Garfield Ave in the AM for both the Q18 and Q47. The stop further down (69th & Maurice on the Q18) also sees good usage. Even if the proposed B57 makes less stops and takes less time to the , you're still being let off at a local stop (vs. 61st where you have the ). Right now the service is good because the has to run local, but when things go to normal, it will be noticeable. Don't even get me started with the future renovations at 69th that will start with closing the Manhattan-bound platform for months on end. Plus under the new proposal they have the Q67 running every 30 minutes during evenings and weekends, so it wouldn't be like the thing doesn't exist (specifically for subway access, that is). That area would have still had better coverage of service running at least every 30 or better during off-peak hours.

Bringing it back to the Q67, if a route was to be extended that far east (along Metropolitan Ave), I would also try my hand at serving Yellowstone Blvd and terminating somewhere near 71st Ave Subway Station. That way it can cover Yellowstone and provide some coverage in that while leaving the Q23 alone in that area. The QM12 and QM42 aren't doing much of a service in that area anymore, unfortunately. In the PM especially, those things are close to empty (if not outright empty) once they cross Queens Boulevard from the north. So the route would do (once south of the LIE) 69th Street > Metropolitan Ave > 80th Street > Cooper Ave > Metropolitan Ave > Woodhaven Blvd > Yellowstone Blvd > Queens Blvd > 70th Road and terminate. At least that way it avoids 71st Avenue (which is the next block), and is by a subway entrance. I also wouldn't have it be an all local route to 71st Ave, but somewhat of a semi limited to LTD route east of 69th.    

[Ex696]

There's something I've been thinking about since the Bx18 was turned into a loop/circulator route. What if the Q38 was also turned into a loop/circulator? Considering the terminals aren't that far from each other, it seems like a decent idea.

[Q43LTD]

There's a reason why the is being split. Same with the 

[Ex696]

I don't see why those 2 are being split while the Bx18 got the circulator treatment. I'm not sure if length plays a large factor in it, though.

[Robert Spire]

On 12/30/2023 at 7:18 AM, JAzumah said:

That is correct, especially when one bus stop justified the "Q" portion of the name. 

 

 

To the MTA's credit (bookmark that I said that), the B103 was one of the first routes that they poured resources into to grow ridership. They boosted service to every 15 minutes with every RTS CNG that could keep alive and the route took off. I remember it like yesterday. They also tried to break down the company silos as much as possible to make the system work better. The city could have done the same thing on its own, but they had no interest in investing those resources. To this point, they have also kept paying for the better service in its entirety.
 

In the 1970s and 1980s during the Pioneer Bus and early Command days, the BQM1 didn't even stop at Linden Blvd and 79th Street. It meant that the bus went via Queens to Manhattan.

[NewFlyer 230]

15 hours ago, Ex696 said:

I don't see why those 2 are being split while the Bx18 got the circulator treatment. I'm not sure if length plays a large factor in it, though.

Geography plays a big part in why the Bx18 is the way it is. That part of the Bronx is very hilly and to reach the next street in some cases you have to climb up and down stairs. The Bx18 primarily serves as a feeder to the  and . 
The B24 and Q38 don’t need to have to routes that they have nor do they need to be a circular. In both cases there are portions of the routes that are higher in ridership than the other. For the Q38, the Elliot Ave and Corona portion of the route see  higher usage than the 63rd Drive & Juniper Valley Rd portion. The Williamsburg part of the B24 carries less air than the Greenpoint portion. Therefore it makes a lot of sense to split the two routes up so that each portion can get the appropriate service. 

Edited January 21 by NewFlyer 230

[B35 via Church]

On 1/18/2024 at 12:32 AM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Q31: I wouldn't have a route from Flushing do that either (go down Tremont Ave). Way I saw it, it would take Zerega to Westchester, then Waters Place (passing by Westchester Square along the way, no weird loops needed around that area. As far as the Bx24, I brought it up since we were discussing such a route (and given that it would mimic the Bx24, why not kill two birds with one stone?).

Overall I do agree that dealing with the Bx24 overall is a Bronx issue, I do think it is worth discussing that as it specifically pertains to this proposal. There would be a notable overlap between Westchester Square and Hutchinson Metro Center between the two routes, and the Bx24 both runs infrequently and has very little through riding at Westchester Square. The rest of the Bx24 of course is another conversation, although I wouldn't hesitate to can the Bx24 out of there should a route like this come to fruition. Also, if not the 911 call center, where would those buses u-turn, near the Amazon facility? That's probably the only other place I see feasible (both operationally and in terms of coverage).

Alright, so that's where the difference lies... You'd have it approach all those medical facilities from the west (of the Hutch)... I'd still have the route run along the current Q50 up until a certain point (Jarvis); operationally severing the current Q50 into 2 complementary routes, instead of having all service run to/from Co-op (with, again, increased service... and not just completely cutting into current Q50 service to come up with this route of sorts.... The latter is what was done with the Q53 to have created the Q52, but that's neither here nor there).... That's where you mentioned it being a separate/standalone route & what not - and now I see why you say that, with having such a route go Zerega-Westchester-Waters, etc....

As far as the Bx24 goes, well in coming out with this Flushing - *Bronx Medical Centers* type of a route, not only am I not looking to create competition with the Bx24, I wasn't even thinking about the Bx24 (not in the sense that IDK that the Bx24 exists, but in the sense that the Bx24 is irrelevant to the task at hand).... The Bx24 b/w Westchester Sq. & HMC is already in competition with those HMC shuttles, so if it's any reason to (want to) can the Bx24 north of Westchester Sq., it would be for that reason.... Those shuttles do quite well up there.... I don't want to turn this into a *what should be done with the Bx24* discussion, so I'll stop here...

As for where would the buses u-turn, there's a roundabout just past the security checkpoint at HMC (to access Montefiore - Hutchinson, Mercy College, etc) .... Having it cut through the (access to the) Atrium parking lot (over there by the gym; LA fitness) to get to Bassett, as I see it, would more or less defeat the purpose of even having it run up Marconi....

On 1/18/2024 at 12:32 AM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Q18/Q67: Alright, so the Q18 would essentially be the bus that connects 69th Street in that area down to the . I guess I'm not too opposed with such a Q67 setup, when you mention it that way. One thing I will say though is that either the frequency of the Q18 would need to be boosted or there would need to be short-turns to/from 61st Street during parts of the day, because the waits on the branched sections (since you mention between Woodside Ave and the LIE) will add up. It would make the route straighter of course, but infrequent....

In having the Q18 branched, I'd increase service for the purpose of running short turns b/w Roosevelt & Metropolitan.

On 1/19/2024 at 12:23 AM, Ex696 said:

There's something I've been thinking about since the Bx18 was turned into a loop/circulator route. What if the Q38 was also turned into a loop/circulator? Considering the terminals aren't that far from each other, it seems like a decent idea.

10 hours ago, Ex696 said:

I don't see why those 2 are being split while the Bx18 got the circulator treatment. I'm not sure if length plays a large factor in it, though.

Wait, what?

Turning the Q38 into a circulator is a decent idea on what front? What need is there to connect the Corona & Rego Park spurs of the route? It isn't a situation like with the southern portion (as in, south of QB) of the route, where the Eliot & the Juniper Valley segments of the route converge to serve Middle Village ... Being that the Corona spur & the Rego Park spur is divided by the LIE, they serve the QB line at 2 different stations... The having of the Juniper Valley segment & the Eliot segment serving Middle Village in & of itself is far less necessary for the overall network than splitting the Q38....

To juxtapose the Bx18 & the Q38 I find to be quite bizarre... The Q38 shouldn't be turned into a circulator due to the proximity of the Corona terminal & the Rego Park terminal, because they currently have the Juniper Valley & the Eliot segment connecting to the at Metropolitan.... The point of a circulator, generally speaking, is to bring commuters on opposite ends and/or sides of a community/-ies, that would be typically transit deprived otherwise, to a central (major) location.... Not even counting the express routes, I'd bet you'd need more than two hands to count the amount of local bus connections that the Q38 offers from terminal to terminal..... That is proof alone that the last thing the network needs is to have the Q38 exist as a circulator - regardless of the mileage the current Q38 racks up.

I'd say you don't see why the current Q38 is being split, because you're apparently being spoofed by the MTA's frugality & are coming to a conclusion that would further defend it.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On 1/16/2024 at 2:52 PM, BrooklynBus said:

A test would be a great idea. Something the MTA does not do. I was thinking of it more for commuters than for people going to the beach. 

Is there any actual demand for such a route (beyond the one person who wants it)?

[BrooklynBus]

I suggested it several times in the local Rockaway papers and each time there was a positive response for it. Also, there was a positive response from Subchat, and the former director of the Queens Study admitted that this was definitely a gap in the system. 

[JAzumah]

10 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Is there any actual demand for such a route (beyond the one person who wants it)?

If similar people exist in two places culturally, a bus between the two places has a shot. The people in western Rockaway, Sheepshead Bay, and Marine Park are culturally similar in a lot of ways. A bus every 30 minutes between the Beach 108 Street ferry terminal and the Sheepshead Bay train station would do just fine. One could also extend every other B36 to Kings Plaza to see if the pax groups connect at Kings Plaza.

[SubBus]

According to MTA.info, the QBR was updated as of Tuesday, 1-23-24...

I didn't notice anything usual....

[JoshTheScrub]

Not surprised tbh, likewise some stuff needs to be redone again since they still getting negative feedback

[Cait Sith]

1 hour ago, SubBus said:

According to MTA.info, the QBR was updated as of Tuesday, 1-23-24...

I didn't notice anything usual....

Just because the site updates doesn't mean there's anything new being added. It could just be minor things.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Most I seen in this "update" is that they'll be done with outreach by the end of spring 2024.

[SubBus]

15 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Most I seen in this "update" is that they'll be done with outreach by the end of spring 2024.

https://www.qchron.com/editions/queenswide/mta-s-final-draft-plan-for-se-queens/article_7e7cd9fa-9f34-5182-ad4a-ee6b4ee0a9de.html

[Brillant93]

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Most I seen in this "update" is that they'll be done with outreach by the end of spring 2024.

Is it safe to assume they'll roll this out by summer?

[limitednyc]

Makes sence they want to in implement the changes  in 1/25.

[7-express]

30 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

Is it safe to assume they'll roll this out by summer?

Articles pointed to after the holidays at the end of the year for implementation.

[Ex696]

On 1/21/2024 at 11:27 AM, B35 via Church said:

Wait, what?

Turning the Q38 into a circulator is a decent idea on what front? What need is there to connect the Corona & Rego Park spurs of the route? It isn't a situation like with the southern portion (as in, south of QB) of the route, where the Eliot & the Juniper Valley segments of the route converge to serve Middle Village ... Being that the Corona spur & the Rego Park spur is divided by the LIE, they serve the QB line at 2 different stations... The having of the Juniper Valley segment & the Eliot segment serving Middle Village in & of itself is far less necessary for the overall network than splitting the Q38....

To juxtapose the Bx18 & the Q38 I find to be quite bizarre... The Q38 shouldn't be turned into a circulator due to the proximity of the Corona terminal & the Rego Park terminal, because they currently have the Juniper Valley & the Eliot segment connecting to the at Metropolitan.... The point of a circulator, generally speaking, is to bring commuters on opposite ends and/or sides of a community/-ies, that would be typically transit deprived otherwise, to a central (major) location.... Not even counting the express routes, I'd bet you'd need more than two hands to count the amount of local bus connections that the Q38 offers from terminal to terminal..... That is proof alone that the last thing the network needs is to have the Q38 exist as a circulator - regardless of the mileage the current Q38 racks up.

I'd say you don't see why the current Q38 is being split, because you're apparently being spoofed by the MTA's frugality & are coming to a conclusion that would further defend it.

Yeah, I'll go my bad on that one, I didn't have as great of an understanding of the purpose of the Q38 as much as I did of the Bx18. I kind of just saw some similarity between the two so I tried to juxtapose them, I'll admit I was wrong there. But on the other hand, why don't they extend the Q14 to Fresh Pond Road station, like I think was originally proposed for it? It just brings riders from the Eliot Avenue portion to this sort-of transit desert since they no longer have a connection to the M at Metropolitan, or forces them to head out to Woodhaven Boulevard for the subway, which is time-consuming, especially for those who live closer to Middle Village.



 

[B35 via Church]

On 1/22/2024 at 4:05 AM, JAzumah said:

If similar people exist in two places culturally, a bus between the two places has a shot....

This is one reason why I've long been of the belief that an Astoria - Williamsburg route would do quite well... When they came out with the current B32, I thought that was a golden opportunity to have that be accomplished.... However, of course, they stunted it, to only opt to run it to the (ass end of) Court Sq..... As for that proposed B62 in the Brooklyn redesign plan, they're doing the exact opposite - having it run well past Williamsburg from Astoria, to Downtown Brooklyn...

I would much rather combine the WBP - Downtown Brooklyn portion of the current B62 with that proposed B27 of theirs (in other words, a WBP - Red Hook route), over having the entirety of their proposed B62 come to fruition....

Edited January 26 by B35 via Church

[GojiMet86]

7 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

This is one reason why I've long been of the belief that an Astoria - Williamsburg route would do quite well... When they came out with the current B32, I thought that was a golden opportunity to have that be accomplished.... However, of course, they stunted it, to only opt to run it to the (ass end of) Court Sq..... As for that proposed B62 in the Brooklyn redesign plan, they're doing the exact opposite - having it run well past Williamsburg from Astoria, to Downtown Brooklyn...

I would much rather combine the WBP - Downtown Brooklyn portion of the current B62 with that proposed B27 of theirs (in other words, a WBP - Red Hook route), over having the entirety of their proposed B62 come to fruition....

Yeah, and in terms of just reliability, I would have just extended the B32 instead making a super B62. Instead, they're getting rid of their own new route.

[limitednyc]

B27/b62 combo was the old b61.